[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - North Star

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RxPhantom
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Post by RxPhantom » 4 months ago

Kaalia is...I don't know. I had a Kaalia deck that wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. She's pretty high on the Feather Scale* too. She headlines one of the OG precons so I do put some respect on her name.

*The Feather Scale is named for Feather, the Redeemed. it's an idea that currently lives only in my head, and would be designed to rate commanders by the degree that their decks build themselves. Feather being a 10, naturally.
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 4 months ago

My first commander <3 she is def a kill on sight commander and if you can't/ i give her haste/extra attacks I typically will dominate quick. That said, as said she dies so easily I feel like it evens out in my group. Typically my plan is to get an angel/demon/dragon out cheap and then use that to try and keep advantage as Kaalia rarely survives past the first cheat and often by the time people deal with my "threat" its later in the games and everyone is able to drop stuff.
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Post by Dunadain » 4 months ago

The only good thing I can say about Kalia is her flavor text:

"I'll have my revenge if I have to call on every force from above and below"

I don't even know what she wants revenge for, but that's badass, especially because it's supported by her actual text box.
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Post by DirkGently » 4 months ago

Hermes_ wrote:
4 months ago
her price went down hard, i'm guessing so did people playing her.
Still #16 on EDHrec. I think she's been higher on the list at points but 16 is pretty high.
3drinks wrote:
4 months ago
"That stupid purple hippo is the epitome of terrible design, it requires you to use bad abilities to kingmake your way to victory."

See, I can make awful, loaded vague statements about decks I don't understand too. Doesn't make them right.

13 years and counting. Long may she reign.
You found my statement vague? I thought I gave a pretty concrete justification for why I think kaalia is bad design - because she leads to (what I consider to be) bad games. Both for the people playing against her and for the people playing her, in my experience. I've had a looot of games against kaalia where the owner whines about getting targeted after she gets blown up multiple times. I've also had games where either people don't appreciate the threat she represents (usually newer players) or everyone gets tired of that person whining from previous games and lets her live for a turn longer than they know they should, and then bad stuff happens. Personally I don't think either of these experiences - never getting to use your commander, or winning via whining/enemy ignorance - is enjoyable.

I think it's possible to build her in a way that would be fun (especially as times goes on and the general power level expectation increases), eschewing certain high powered options. I just rarely see her built that way, though, and her reputation means she rarely gets to live long enough to prove her innocence. But if you were in a closed group and played her repeatedly you could maybe pull it off.

"kingmake your way to victory" is a curious phrase. Ignoring the contradiction and focusing on the sentiment, though, your statement is a fairly factual description of how one can use Phelddagrif strategically. I'm not sure why that would make Phelddagrif bad design though.
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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 4 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
4 months ago
The only good thing I can say about Kalia is her flavor text:

"I'll have my revenge if I have to call on every force from above and below"

I don't even know what she wants revenge for, but that's badass, especially because it's supported by her actual text box.

I like this flavour for the Lead the Stampede version of her Kaalia, Zenith Seeker

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Post by materpillar » 4 months ago

3drinks wrote:
4 months ago
Well then. Let's see what people think of the girl in 2024.
The same thing I thought about her in 2012. Just Lightning Bolt her twice and move on with the game. Master of Cruelties means I assume she's lethal every swing. Don't tap out until she's priced out.

She's suffering from power creep badly. Not because she's weaker but because everyone is packing more answers to other power creeped cards. She's an extremely predictable glass cannon card with no utility in a world with way more efficient removal and card advantage engines. People have to be prepared for busted 4-drops in a way they didn't in by gone years and she is extremely easy to answer.

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Post by Mookie » 4 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
4 months ago
The only good thing I can say about Kalia is her flavor text:

"I'll have my revenge if I have to call on every force from above and below"

I don't even know what she wants revenge for, but that's badass, especially because it's supported by her actual text box.
Story time!

It looks like the first part of the story is no longer available, but the tl;dr is she wants revenge on Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis for killing her village.

...anyway, Kaalia of the Vast is a cool but linear card. Demons, dragons, and angels are all popular creature types that tend to be expensive to cast, so using Kaalia to cheat them out is pretty nice. On the other hand, if Kaalia dies, you may be stuck with a pile of uncastable 8-drops in hand, so... yeah. I think Kaalia, Zenith Seeker is a more stable commander - you can play the ramp to just cast your fatties, and Kaalia 2.0 provides card advantage if you run out of gas. That said, T1 Sol Ring + signet → T2 Kaalia → T3 Avacyn, Angel of Hope (or whatever) is certainly a sweet dream if you're looking to play with the classic glass cannon.

I guess Ilharg, the Raze-Boar is the modern, power-crept version of Kaalia - you only get whatever you cheat out for a turn, but Ilharg is also a reasonable fatty by itself (and also somewhat resistant to removal).

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Post by duducrash » 4 months ago

Mookie wrote:
4 months ago
she wants revenge on Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis for killing her village.
I see my girl took taylor swift's motto of "Don't get sad, get even" to heart. A demon destroyed my village? I'll destroy the demon with demons, dragons and angels. Gotta respect the vibe tbh. good for her

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Post by Serenade » 4 months ago

I had no clue she was from Bant/Alara!
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Post by Igzex » 4 months ago

I feel like this card (And Atraxa) actually embodies the EDH community quite well. Like, she's both among of the most iconic and popular commanders while also among the most hated commanders all at the same time.

I'm guess sure she's aged surprisingly well? What with recent haymakers like Ancient Copper Dragon and Bloodletter of Aclazotz existing and all. Yet when it comes to dragons at the very least I kinda just prefer to hardcast them. They've gotten remarkably cost efficient, have a mound of support that makes it a lot easier to spam them, and WOTC is really pushing this whole pays for themselves in treasure tokens sub-identity that I personally can't see the need for a Sneak Attack that dies to Shock. There's also the whole inevitable "Oh she got countered I guess half of my hand is bricks now" moments that never feel good...

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Post by yeti1069 » 4 months ago

I think the commanders that represent a sort of all-or-nothing strategy make for inherently unfun gameplay.

Either Kaalia gets in a swing, and leaps ahead of the table, or she gets removed immediately, and the Kaalia player gets set way back, because it's likely a jump of 2+ mana between casting her and casting any of the fatties in hand. Also, since Kaalia doesn't come with card advantage, a board wipe or two will sometimes entirely remove that player's ability to participate. There is the social pressure of EDH to not jump on a player for what they MAY do, but with Kaalia, by the time it does something, it's often too late to do anything about it.

Some "kill on sight" commanders can actually stick around a little while without causing problems--I had played Meren for a long time, and while it was often a good idea to remove Meren, a lot of the time it was just tiny incremental value, like recurring Sakura-Tribe Elder over a couple of turns. Value, yes, but nothing game-altering. An early Kaalia into Avacyn, Master of Cruelties, or followed up with an Armageddon is too big an impact to take a chance on, and other than removing Kaalia, there's basically no other common interaction for the strategy.

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Post by 3drinks » 4 months ago

Wednesday, January 31st, 2024; Alchemist's Refuge

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I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection! :)

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Post by 3drinks » 4 months ago

Mookie wrote:
4 months ago
Dunadain wrote:
4 months ago
The only good thing I can say about Kalia is her flavor text:

"I'll have my revenge if I have to call on every force from above and below"

I don't even know what she wants revenge for, but that's badass, especially because it's supported by her actual text box.
Story time!

It looks like the first part of the story is no longer available, but the tl;dr is she wants revenge on Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis for killing her village.

...anyway, Kaalia of the Vast is a cool but linear card. Demons, dragons, and angels are all popular creature types that tend to be expensive to cast, so using Kaalia to cheat them out is pretty nice. On the other hand, if Kaalia dies, you may be stuck with a pile of uncastable 8-drops in hand, so... yeah. I think Kaalia, Zenith Seeker is a more stable commander - you can play the ramp to just cast your fatties, and Kaalia 2.0 provides card advantage if you run out of gas. That said, T1 Sol Ring + signet → T2 Kaalia → T3 Avacyn, Angel of Hope (or whatever) is certainly a sweet dream if you're looking to play with the classic glass cannon.

I guess Ilharg, the Raze-Boar is the modern, power-crept version of Kaalia - you only get whatever you cheat out for a turn, but Ilharg is also a reasonable fatty by itself (and also somewhat resistant to removal).
The irony that I ran Nefarox in an early iteration of Kaalia before we had actually good demons is not lost on me. Cool story that I wish they'd build upon more. Make it a Bolas-stretching infinity stones esque arc, give us months and sets of her quest for vengeance or something. Course WotC doesn't design sets like that anymore, everything has to be contained within a single set :\ .

Kaalia 1.0 certainly has a right and wrong way to build, and by far the wrong way is the more popular way with a deck stuffed full of 30+ uncastable dumb bodies. The stronger way is to play fewer bodies and protect your massive threats (that are easily the biggest at the table with these tribes) and ride them to victory, but even that is harder of a strategy as power creep rages. This forces you to build her as a pivot - that is to say, Kaalia is simply one angle of attack, and usually the bait even, while you can switch into reanimator while they're coping with your 2/2. The fact that the deck has ad naus lines, breach combo lines, peer into abyss, and the saw in half combo means it has tons of game. Iirc one of it's prey decks as far as cDH goes, is Blue Farm. It's a lot of facets and it's hard to stop them all; but it's also a hard deck to play because of all the pivots to be cognizant of.

While Zenith Seeker is far stronger at a mid to high power table as it provides a constant stream of cards and threats, but mana value matters as you're still paying retail for them all. So it's a trade off. I like them both for differing reasons.
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Post by duducrash » 4 months ago

To defender poor Kaalia of the Vast , I'll say one thing. I've seen several games when her player was forgotten after she was killed a couple of times and they clawed back to the game. Since there isn't much set up needed.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 4 months ago

3drinks wrote:
4 months ago
Wednesday, January 31st, 2024; Alchemist's Refuge

This card is surprisingly efficient. Tacking on 3 mana to something to give it flash is a pretty good rate for the added flexibility, especially for board wipes.
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Post by Ruiner » 4 months ago

3drinks wrote:
4 months ago
Wednesday, January 31st, 2024; Alchemist's Refuge

This should basically be an auto-include in most decks that can run it. I've seen this do some random unexpected out of nowhere stuff. Even just the ability to "end of your turn, play my creatures" makes it worthwhile.

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Post by duducrash » 4 months ago

3drinks wrote:
4 months ago
he fact that the deck has ad naus lines,
I spent my lunch thinking about this. This seems the worst place to have ad naus lines ever since the angels, demons and dragons are so high MV wise. how do you play it? like the old modern deck with "You cant lose the game"?

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Post by Mookie » 4 months ago

Alchemist's Refuge is pretty great. There is a lot of competition for colorless lands, but this one earns its slot pretty easily - granting all of your stuff flash is quite powerful. You are paying a three mana premium when you activate it... but given that you're in ramp colors, that should be manageable. It's my most commonly-tutored utility land in Tasigur - being able to hold open mana for Tasigur activations while also having the option to flash out a board wipe or threat if necessary is quite nice. If I also happen to have Seedborn Muse out, then things get very silly very quickly - it's essentially a build-your-own Prophet of Kruphix.

I'll call out Winding Canyons as the colorless (but slightly weaker) version of this effect. Emergence Zone is also an option for a one-shot effect.

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Post by DirkGently » 4 months ago

I have a love/hate relationship with refuge. On one hand, I love flash and I'm known to enjoy a good utility land. On the other hand, I don't like relying on one random land to enable flash for my deck, so I prefer to just play a lot of instants, which then makes refuge worse.

I do think it's a bit overrated. For the activation cost you could just cast on your turn and have counterspell mana up. But it does have its uses.
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Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by yeti1069 » 4 months ago

I've always liked Alchemist's Refuge, but I find myself wondering how much I should be using this effect alongside untappers like Seedborn Muse.

Right now, the main place I run it is in Kadena, which has a handful of flash enablers and a couple untappers, and I'm discovering why Prophet of Kruphix was banned--if you're playing cards on everyone else's turns, with full resources available, and even drawing a card or two (or more!), you're essentially building your own Lighthouse Chronologist--and THIS is why Prophet had to be banned. At times, playing Kadena feels miserable for everyone, because I'm basically taking an extra turn for each of theirs: untap, play a morph, draw a card, maybe play some other stuff or activate some morph abilities.

Anyway, that's a digression. If you want flash specifically, or are a control deck that wants to make efficient use of mana, then this is probably the best utility land you could be running.

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Post by Dunadain » 4 months ago

I used to be much higher on Alchemist's Refuge, I still think it's good, but as I've gotten better at the game, I've gotten better at realizing when the board needs to be wiped, so I don't have to lean on flash as hard for when I misjudge.

I'll call-out Emergence Zone as a colorless, cheaper option, though it does cost you the land.
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Post by 3drinks » 4 months ago

duducrash wrote:
4 months ago
3drinks wrote:
4 months ago
he fact that the deck has ad naus lines,
I spent my lunch thinking about this. This seems the worst place to have ad naus lines ever since the angels, demons and dragons are so high MV wise. how do you play it? like the old modern deck with "You cant lose the game"?
The typical Kaalia at the cDH level that's looking to naus only plays a handful of creatures - Raza, Villis, Broodlord. Naturally you can't just shove ad naus into any xb deck, you'd just, what are the kids saying these days, "unalive" yourself.
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I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection! :)

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 4 months ago

I had Refuge in my deck since the moment it was printed. Maybe activated it 3 times in all those years. It just never ended up pulling it's weight for me. I don't play much these days so it doesn't get much love.

Now granddad Winding Canyons has done a little work in mono red, but now plays a big role in Wild Pair deck to make my toolbox creatures accessible directly from the library at instant speed. So while I have respect for this effect, the Refuge hasn't has the staying power with me. I'll keep it in mind in the future.

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Post by 3drinks » 4 months ago

Thursday, February 1st, 2024; Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer

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I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection! :)

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Post by Toshi » 4 months ago

3drinks wrote:
4 months ago
Awww man, just when i dismantled my very own Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer "tutor stupid sh1t" deck... :sweat:
That was a fun $50 deck for a while.

I am pretty sure there are some stupid decks to build around it - and its best friend Wirewood Symbiote.
Among tutor commanders he's way fairer than say Vannifar, Evolved Enigma, Zur the Enchanter, since you actually got to have some mana available.

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