Cazur and Ukkima - cEDH ruins everything

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I'm kind of annoyed.

I've been itching to build more decks now that NZ is open for business, so I scrolled down the IKO and C20 commanders. Wasn't really expecting to like Cazur and Ukkima, but the more I thought about it, the more an edric-esque deck with black and more damage focus sounded like a fun antidote to the sometimes grindy games I've been playing recently. And my collection overflows with crappy 1-drop evasive creatures.

So I go on EDHrec and look them up, and the #1 synergy card? Food Chain. 42% of the C+U decks on EDHrec are food chain combo, which essentially don't give a crap about Cazur, and only care about Ukkima insofar as he has "ltb: do something that wins the game when done infinitely", and they have a good color identity. What's more, I remember overhearing people at my LGS talking about Ukkima and joking about how he was only good for sacking to food chain - a conversation that now made a lot more sense, given that nearly half of people building this deck are building the same tedious cEDH deck.

So now when I go to play this deck at my LGS, I look forward to needing to tell everyone I play against "don't worry, I'm not playing the combo" just because I'm playing the commanders the way they were intended, instead of caring about the asinine things cEDH cares about, namely: "does this commander give me an out for an established infinite combo that was already boring in 2014?" Fine, cEDH, go ruin Zur, go ruin Arcum, go ruin Ghave...those cards are broken all on their own. When someone sits down with Arcum, he deserves the scrutiny. But Ukkima? Ukkima did nothing wrong.

Alright, enough salt. Here's the deck. I need to figure out lands still, but it took a long time to whittle down the list to this point, so here's what I've got so far:
Cazur + Ukkima
Approximate Total Cost:

Last edited by DirkGently 1 year ago, edited 2 times in total.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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RowanKeltizar
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 1 year ago

I applaud you on your mana curve. 2.06 is pretty darn low! I feel like there is a possibility of this deck being susceptible to sweepers. I think a couple more Heroic Intervention type effects might go a long way.

Have you consider The Ozolith to keep your +1/+1 counter on the battlefield?

As far as Food Chain is concerned, I wasn't even aware of the combo with this commander. Honestly, I think it's not something to be too worried about. I run Niv-Mizzet, Parun a lot and people do ask me if I'm running the combo(s). To which I reply, No, because it doesn't suit my playstyle and I'm not going to put in card(s) that relies on me having UUURRR to actually go off. There are virtually no other creatures in the deck, and these cards would simply be dead top decks most of the time.

There are infinite combos in the deck, but it isn't obvious and when people see it go off they are usually surprised and impressed. That combo is either Underworld Breach + Inner Fire or Reiterate + Inner Fire. LOL!

So the lesson here I think is just simple communication and being able to build/think outside the box. You certainly don't have to do what everyone else is doing. People like surprises.
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WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher - One Shotting Since 2013
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I definitely think the deck is vulnerable to sweepers, but that's why I'm running counterspells. Heroic intervention does make board wipes asymmetric, so it does have an advantage over counterspells versus board wipes in that respect, but counterspells are more broadly useful.

Don't have an ozolith yet, quarantine being what it is (or was). It seems a little slow for what I'm trying to do, and I feel like I'd probably just rather have another counterspell, but it's hard to say. I'll want to see how it plays out. Synergy was really hard to whittle down, there's a ton of excellent options.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

Pir, Imaginative Rascal and then its kind of a freebie to include Toothy, Imaginary Friend
Evolution Sage combined with the maximum number of fetchlands.
Flux Channeler.
Inspiring Call is potential draw and insurance against "destroy" board wipes.
Rishkar, Peema Renegade is always great in +1/+1 decks, and with all your draw cards I promise you that he will be a key in a lot of games to actually deploy your spells.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest as a way to go over-the-top compared to what opponents can do.
Snake Umbra, the Totem armor part is good for getting back Ukkima straight away if killed.

Your onboard removal is pretty limited. Caustic Caterpillar can work for you here.
I feel like a Force of Vigor and/or Nature's Claim should be added as well.

As far as cuts, Call of the Nightwing, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Scute Mob, Hypnotic Siren, Wingcrafter, Ohran Viper, Sower of Temptation.
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner seems like a big liability at times with Auras and Equipment.
Instead play Sylvan Safekeeper.
Wingcrafter targets seem to be literally Cazur, Ruthless Stalker and Stonecoil Serpent and the rest of your deck has flying and are unblockable already.

Guidpact Informant → Guildpact Informant

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

I second the inclusion of Edric. Its omission seems... odd, particularly considering your relative deck expertise, Dirk.

I'd also recommend Druids' Repository. With as many small fliers as you have, you should be able to charge up the Repository VERY quickly. It enables you to hold up interaction and, if you ever decide to run them, extra turns spells to maximize your deck strategy of pushing damage through as an Aggro deck in EDH. Could be too cEDH for your liking though, so the extra turns is definitely a choice.

Also, since +1/+1 counters is definitely a thing here you could also consider Herald of Secret Streams as a way to push damage through and get those Cazur triggers.

Some other evasive fliers and tools that you could enjoy:

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I left out edric because I already had a lot of coastal piracy effects, and because I'm nervous that this deck won't realistically be able to compete with other decks going wider, I.e, with tokens. Evasion is great but I could easily foresee games where I only have a couple unblockables. So I'm focusing more on stuff like curiosity that give me a fast, cheap, asymmetrical edge that goes a little tall as well as wide. Maybe that reasoning sucks but that's what I was going with.

As you've probably noticed, there are a lot of really strong options here. It's really hard to narrow it down tbh.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

sweetwaterbob
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Post by sweetwaterbob » 1 year ago

I threw together a deck similar to this based off of D Dog from MGSV and it's pretty much a sygg meets edric deck.

Some ideas to think about.

Finishers
Finale of Devastation
Triumph of the Hordes
Beastmaster Ascension

Cipher
Whispering Madness
Stolen Identity

Prowl
Notorious Throng
Knowledge Exploitation

Protection
Heroic Intervention
Wrap in Vigor
Illusionist's Gambit

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

sweetwaterbob wrote:
1 year ago
I threw together a deck similar to this based off of D Dog from MGSV and it's pretty much a sygg meets edric deck.
That does sound like roughly what I'm going for.
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Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Updated list with landbase. Wouldn't mind finding a spot for Yavimaya Hollow, but eh.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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