Athreos, Shroud-Veiled - Boardwipe Control, Recursion, Etbs, Theft

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Neo-Athreos has been on my to-do list for a while, but picking up a spicy nonfoil Athreos at the M21 prerelease finally convinced me to build this bad boy.

The plan is pretty straightforward.

Step 1: get Athreos on the field ASAP.
Step 2: play a bunch of powerful ETBs and put coin counters on them.
Step 3: put coin counters on powerful enemy creatures too.
Step 4: wipe the board
Step 5: repeat steps 2-4.

Athreos' nigh-unkillable status makes it pretty easy to rely on having him around for the whole game, so we can really focus the strategy around him. In particular, it lets us take maximum advantage from wipes by not only keeping value on-board, but also recurring creatures and potentially generating value from enemy creatures when we wipe the board. It can also create numerous soft-locks with cards like Magus of the Disk and False Prophet, or generate massive value very quickly with cards like Sepulchral Primordial and Massacre Wurm.

Since Athreos is both key to our plans and a good source of consistent value, the deck aims to get him out ASAP, so most ramp is tuned around hitting Athreos on an early turn. Unfortunately a lot of the ramp is somewhat antisynergistic here, since it will likely be destroyed by our own wipes, but ideally an early Athreos will help recoup that lost value from dead draws by generating both value and tempo, while controlling enemy value and tempo via the endless string of wipes. Cheap tutors are especially clutch since they can function as efficient ramp by fetching fast mana, or to find a synergy piece of board wipe later in the game.
Decklist

Commander (1)


Approximate Total Cost:

Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 2289
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

First couple games were pretty successful. Died to a god-tier damage-doubling topdeck making Haktos the Unscarred lethal (I could have removed him too, but it seemed like an acceptable risk considering he was hellbent), won the second game. Overall the balance feels pretty good, didn't have issues being too glutted with a particular card function. MVP might go to Resolute Archangel who absolutely trashed my opponents attempts to deal me incremental damage. Cavalier of dawn recurring whip of erebos was also some sick value that locked out the second game. Cartographer's hawk didn't get to do much, but I'm not giving up hope - I drew him in a game where I went first, I had a grim monolith as well so my ramp was already way stronger, and an opponent had a pinger, and I used burnished hart to put all my basics into play. So...kind of a worst-case-scenario for the hawk I think.

Anyway, overall it was a pretty fun outing. Will try it out again on Monday.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

I don't like some of the artifact mana running up against your own removal. I would play land ramp instead.
Sevinne's Reclamation and Brought Back are two cards that I've been running in my white decks with a large number of fetch-lands as land ramp. Second Sunrise is another one you can look at.
With your deck in particular, because you are literally not looking to commit anything to the board during the early game, you can save up fetch-lands for a single turn to crack and then potential use the Brought Back or Second Sunrise to get back all the fetch-lands.
I mean as many fetches as possible as you can afford to be slow during the early game as well, because lets face it you are looking to just cast a sweeper as one of your first moves. Arid Mesa, Bad River, Bloodstained Mire, Fabled Passage, Flood Plain, Flooded Strand, Grasslands, Marsh Flats, Polluted Delta, Prismatic Vista, Verdant Catacombs, Windswept Heath.
The reason Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse are not quite as good is that the land comes into play tapped so you can't do a Turn 2 play with Brought Back or a Turn 3 play with Second Sunrise.
Lotus Vale actully is really good with this plan as you get the mana to cast the return cards. Lake of the Dead is also another option.

Kor Cartographer is good enough here.
Wayfarer's Bauble as well.
I'd cut Coalition Relic, Palladium Myr, Worn Powerstone, Orzhov Signet.

Recruiter of the Guard looks great to me as I can see False Prophet being one of the key cards in the deck.
Getting Solemn Simulacrum or Burnished Hart for example is also a place that you really want to be at if using Athreos, Shroud-Veiled in a more passive sense after board control.
Itself has an ETB effect, so you cast it and can get double value from it straight away if coin gets put on it.

Not convinced on some of the planeswalkers in Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. They still get hit by a lot of your removal and are very low impact.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is a way more proactive goal to get the emblem for the theme of your deck.

I like both Erebos for the deck because of their indestructible. Erebos, God of the Dead can give you some addition card draw.
Erebos, Bleak-Hearted sacrifice looks to be important with making sure you get value out of your coins.

I would just try and lower to the curve of the deck as much as you can. Most of your creatures are 5 or more with your removal 5 or more as well. You have not much in the way of reanimation to cheat them in either.
I personally would cut Sunblast Angel, Ashen Rider, Adarkar Valkyrie for Bounty Agent, Palace Jailer, Crypt Rats.
I feel like Karmic Guide has a nice home here as well. You can put a coin on it and not pay the echo so you get the ETB effect each turn if you want.

You could play Cataclysmic Gearhulk over Tragic Arrogance for more of a long-term lock, even though the initial choice is different between you and opponents getting to pick. But the idea is that it keeps happening each turn.

Mistveil Plains can be used to grind your opponents out even more.

Do you know how Academy Rector interacts with Athreos, Shroud-Veiled? If it dies and you exile it from your graveyard, does the coin effect still take place and get returned to battlefield?

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Myllior
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Post by Myllior » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
Do you know how Academy Rector interacts with Athreos, Shroud-Veiled? If it dies and you exile it from your graveyard, does the coin effect still take place and get returned to battlefield?
It does not. When Academy Rector dies, both its and Athreos's abilities go on the stack. When you resolve Rector's ability first and exile it, it is not a creature (nor does it have a coin counter on it anymore) so Athreos will not trigger a second time. Consequently, when Athreos's ability resolves, it will still search your graveyard for the Rector but fail to find it as it is no longer there. (If you resolve the triggers in reverse order, you get the Rector back, but the "if you do" clause on the Rector means that you won't get to search for an enchantment).

Alternatively, if you want to skip the reasoning, the 4th ruling on Athreos's Gatherer page is,

"If a creature with a coin counter on it is put into a graveyard or exile but leaves that zone before Athreos's last ability resolves, that card stays in its new zone, even if that zone is also a graveyard or exile. You don't return it to the battlefield."

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

From play experience, the antisynergy with artifact ramp and planar cleansings really wasn't that bad. The deck has fairly light draw, so we're usually only playing 1-2 spells a turn anyway. The ramp is there to get Athreos out ASAP, and it does that job admirably. After that, if it sticks around, swell. Also, only 1/3 of our wipes necessarily hit artifacts, so they don't necessarily even die.

Reclamation I'm lukewarm on because it doesn't really have much else to hit besides lands. It's basically a Deep Reconnaissance with a double-powered flashback, which is not that exciting imo. Brought Back, though, I do think I like, we should be able to hit double fetches into a sick double ramp turn reasonably often. And more importantly, it's actually pretty useful late-game to recur some value creatures. I'll probably throw it in for tomorrow's sesh.

Second sunrise I don't think makes sense, it's 3 mana and I don't think there's many circumstances where I'll get enough value out of it. And it's not really usable the same turn as a wipe.

I've already got the 9 good fetches in the deck. I'm not so sure about the etbt fetches, seems a bit jank for only one synergy card. Same for lotus vale I think, although that might have more merit.

Lake of the dead...Idk I really don't like that card. You have to sac 2 swamps before you get any value of it. I do want to ramp out Athreos but I don't think I'm in THAT much of a hurry.

Kor cartographer might actually be a good call since it ramps directly to 6. Crap solemn is still ok. Also might justify going in on Emeria, the Sky Ruin.

Gids and Sorin are mostly a way to progress if my opponents aren't committing to the board, and they dodge most of my removal (Gideon dodges I think all of it actually, except an o-stone/boompile activation on an enemy turn). Or I can just get emblems pre-wipe. Admittedly P/T boosts aren't super powerful here, but the deck doesn't have the fastest clock for actually closing out the game once I've established control, and they speed it up a bit. Elspeth doesn't play as well with my wipes since she won't leave anything useful behind unless I get all the way to ult.

I considered the Ereboses but, at least from initial play, draw wasn't really that necessary, the deck has a lot of high impact cards and paying 4 for a do-mostly-nothing is eh. Having a sac outlet is mostly unnecessary as we have a lot of those in the lands. Of the two, bleak-hearted is definitely much better though, I could see running that. He got cut fairly late.

Karmic guide was cut because you cannot put a coin counter on it (easily).

Arrogance is way more powerful an effect than Gearhulk, and repeated locks aren't generally the goal. I do ultimately have to commit to the board to win. In my experience when enemies get to select what they sac, it's not that powerful of an effect anyway, tbh, more useful for making me a target than for actually clearing the things that matter.

Mistveil plains seems unnecessary? Not sure what that'd do for the deck. I have as much recursion as I have tutors.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I feel like a couple Cast Out / Oblivion Ring effects are probably worth it for this deck. O-ring especially is sweet cos you can plop it on your own guy then sweep the board for another trigger in a pinch. I think at the minimum I would run just o-ring since it fixes a lot of board states with e-tutor.

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DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
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Joined: 2 years ago
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I don't really like o-rings even in decks with synergy (i.e. enchantress or, in some cases, blink). Sorcery speed = bleh, removability = bleh, mana cost = bleh. And in this deck it seems mostly like anti-synergy with our wipes. As a way to get an etb I guess it technically qualifies, but there are so many methods that are more efficient and reliable. Enlightened tutor already gets disk, stone, and boompile, so it's already a good way to grab an answer for most anything.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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