Sorrow's Path Golos - another stupid deck by DirkGently (Decklist up!)

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

EDIT: Decklist!
Sorrow's Path Golos
Approximate Total Cost:

No UB or WU duals, since blue is our lightest color and RG are our heaviest.

OP: It came up in a topic in the main discussion, and once someone mentioned the idea of fetching Sorrow's Path with Golos, Tireless Pilgrim I just couldn't resist.

For those not in the know, Sorrow's Path is often cited as the worst card of all time. It has a very niche effect, which is fully on-the-table and playaround-able by your opponent. Plus it's a land that doesn't even tap for mana. But the biggest downside is that whenever it's tapped, it asymmetrically Volcanic Fallouts your butt.

Which, amusingly, is what makes it actually NOT so terrible, because in the game of magic, powerful effects - even negative effects - can almost always be made useful. And repeatable Pyroclasm on a land is certainly a powerful effect. But how to use it?

The more famous way is to Donate it and then keep tapping it via various means, which is hilarious but not very scalable in this format. Maybe with Tectonic Instability, Zedruu the Greathearted, and some clone effects you could make it happen, but it seems like a lot of work for relatively little payoff.

Instead of that, I want to revisit a 60-card deck I built back in 2009 or so that focused around Sorrow's Path and creatures that love getting smacked in the face. Back then it was primary stuff like Spitemare and Phytohydra, but now we've got a whole host of great options thanks to the enrage keyword. Plus we've got things like Rite of Passage and possibly Vigor (although he can screw up our other combos so I'm not 100% on him, despite being insane).

So category-wise, I'm breaking down the deck roughly into:

-Creatures what like getting punched in the face.
-Ways to punch my own creatures in the face.
-Basic utility: removal, ramp, and tutors
-Lands

As far as "ways to punch my own creatures in the face", I've got a few ideas:

Sorrow's Path itself, along with its partner in crime, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
Clones for sorrow's path (Vesuva, thespians, Mythos of Illuna, mirage mirror, moritte of the frost).
Ways to protect/recover sorrow's path (Petrified Field).
Other repeatable ways to smack our boys around (Pyrohemia, Pestilence).
Damage-based board clears (Blasphemous Act, Extinction Event)).
Damage-based removal (Lightning Bolt, Justice Strike).

Those are the thoughts I have so far. Of course Golos as commander guarantees our ability to hit Path, Urborg, Vesuva at some point, as well as guaranteed gas if we start to run out of cards. Not a commander I helm lightly, but I think this is going to be a pretty "fair" application of him.

EDIT: conversation copied from other thread:
DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
materpillar wrote:
7 months ago
This... actually sounds amazing. If you put Chamber of Manipulation onto Sorrow's Path, you can stack the triggers so you gain control of target creature and then it takes 2 damage right?

It'd also be hilarious to Animate Land and then Unexpected Fangs it.

Yeah this deck sounds rather funny actually. Yum, yumm Vigor. You could also probably construct some combo with Cacophodon to kill the table.
I threw up a thread in decklists to do some brainstorming, I'd love to get more ideas (plus we could avoid hijacking this thread). I've been going through my cards this evening and pulling stuff out. Happily I did have a Sorrow's Path in my trades of all places :P

Chamber of Manipulation occurred to me, but I think there are better options. Urborg is the easiest way to activate path since it's Golos-tutorable and costs basically nothing since it's a fine land on its own. There's also a few cantripping auras that will accomplish a similar effect. As far as auras that actually do something, I think Noxious Field could finally have its day in the sun (unfortunately I don't have one, because why the hell would I?). Underworld Connections is a fine card too, and any of the 3cmc auras that give a land "T: add 2" would be good for activating Path or for ramping into Golos a turn earlier. Probably the most insane aura is Urban Burgeoning which, for us, is basically Seedborn Muse as an enchantment for 1 mana :D

the lifelink counter idea did occur to me (although I was thinking of doing it via Splendor Mare). I can't think of any other good reasons to spend cards to turn path into a creature, though, not to mention it's risky. Maybe if there was a land that could do it, so it'd be golos-tutorable and not waste a spell slot, but I don't think there are any? Actually, maybe via Nesting Grounds - it's a bit roundabout, but also saves us the risk of turning it into a creature.

Vigor is simultaneously insane and awful. Obviously it makes path bonkers, but the fact that it turns off all our enrage stuff, i.e. most of the deck, is a huge buzzkill. Rite of Passage is definitely way more synergistic, but Vigor might still make sense when going for a big overrun kill.

I was going to go back through all the enrage stuff to see if I was missing anything important - I'm so upset that I don't have a Cacophodon right now, haha. That is disgustingly strong, imagine it with rite of passage - you'd start off with a chill +3/+3 to all creatures the turn you play it, and then double that every turn - not every your turn, but EVERY turn. If you make it back to your turn again, all your dudes would be +93/+93 lol. And ofc with anything granting indestructible (and a way to stop yourself getting killed lol) it just goes infinite. Did we just break sorrow's path?
Last edited by DirkGently 7 months ago, edited 10 times in total.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

I forgot how hard it is to whittle down a decklist from 5c. Even with a pretty constrained idea, there's way too many cards.

So my rough plan in terms of general deck breakdown is something like:

2 commanders (Golos and SP)
85 ramp
2827 enrage dudes
108 removal
5 counters
10 SP enhancements/clones/etc
4 other synergies
5 tutors
35 lands

Unfortunately this adds up to 107101 cards, and I can't get my actual decklist down that far anyway. So far I've mostly focused on the ramp, enragers, removal, enhancements, and other synergies - here's what I've got so far.

Enragers - if I've missed anything great, please do let me know, but I think I've done a good job of finding all the top-tier stuff. For the most part I want to keep this section pretty long since it's kind of the core of the deck, but I could see trimming down a couple. The cards I think are most cuttable...Vigor maybe tbh. It kind of says "replace all the normal enrage abilities with 'gets 2 +1 counters'" which is probably not worth 6 mana. Shaman en-kor is a really interesting one that I want to try out...it could be insane if I have a bunch of enragers around, since I can spend 2 mana to spread damage from any combat event to all my enragers...but if I don't have any, or only have a couple, it kinda sucks. Wall of hope might be too low impact, but it's just 1 mana and it counters SP's face damage. Hornet nest needs support and the tokens will usually die, but they are very effective blockers if it gets going. Hydras might be too low impact. Bellowing Aegisaur is kind of expensive for what it does.

Ramp - initially I had a bunch of ramp on 3 to hit golos on 4, but I figured that (1) it's pretty useless once we get going, and (2) I'm not unhappy playing setup cards like enragers, tutors, etc on turns 3 and 4. If I get one of the broken ramp pieces then sweet, but I don't think this is a mid-tier, Cultivate type of deck. I could see cutting nature's lore and 3 visits. The other ones I think are either too powerful not to play, or they have solid late-game value that other ramp doesn't offer (klothys, brought back - and chromatic lantern if we don't have urborg).

Removal - I like the idea of doubling up removal and damage so my stuff is multi-use. But damage removal is a lot narrower. Here's what I've got so far. In theory I really like starstorm and co because they're instant-speed board wipes that also trigger my dudes. If this was a mono-red list they'd be in immediately, but since we're 5c it's hard not to feel like there's better options. Plus I wonder that, when I'm going ham, triggering my dudes one more time will make much of a difference compared to potentially multiple per turn with SP. So maybe I should just go for all the efficient 2-3 mana targeted removal, and ultimatum probably just because it's stupid and a good tutor/Golos target. That does leave me low on wipes, but maybe this just isn't a deck for wipes...I've gotten so used to playing control decks lol. Hard to imagine not having at least 5 wipes.

Enhancers - I hate cutting these down too, since they can really put the deck into overdrive. I've also gotten pretty enamored with the lifelink counter plan. I kinda want to cut abundant growth, but then it's a freaking 1-mana cantrip that fixes well even if I'm not using it on SP. I'd love to have justification for finding some of these weaker, but they all seem really good to me.

Other Synergies - pretty small category that I've got down to my estimated 4. The main goal here is to keep tokens alive, keep my lower-toughness creatures alive, and beat down. Ultimatum is just a really high impact card as a reload that I can tutor for in the late game, when all I care about is maximum impact.
Last edited by DirkGently 7 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 7 months ago

First off, I see you've found a deck where you can stomach Chromatic Lantern :P

You meant Star of Extinction not Extinction Event.

Pariah and Pariah's Shield also seem like could be great here.

Marauding Raptor as another enabler.
Mirari's Wake, Oran-Rief, the Vastwood as more anthems.
Spiteful Sliver, Stormwild Capridor, Saber Ants as more payoffs.
I feel like you should play less "good" removal and more fight based stuff like Ulvenwald Tracker.
Academy Rector is good here to find Urban Burgeoning and it dies to sorrow's path!

It'd be amazing if Arena and Desert could make it in here for bad land synergy points. The World Tree also allows Sorrow's Path to tap for mana.

I'd recommend against Ruinous Ultimatum. I think you want to keep the cards that blow people out off a golos spin to exactly 0 to minimize the decks salt.

Your heavy enrage build is interesting. I was imaging more of an enchantress build with Terra Eternal/Indestructibility + Urban Burgeoning + Noxious Field + lifelink counter and basically voltroning up Sorrow's Path. Focusing more on getting it going and only have 5-10 of the best payoffs Polyraptor/Vigor/Swans of Bryn Argoll.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

Lol, I wondered if anyone would notice that about lantern. I mean, it ramps Golos out and it lets SP tap for mana, so yeah...I gotta swallow my pride and admit that it's definitely worth running (in this deck). Ofc the fixing is just a minor bonus. Tbh I think this deck will mostly just be Naya anyway.

You are correct about extinction event. I don't think I'm gonna run it, though - sure it can win, but it's very mediocre without one of the (few) big payoff cards. Blasty act probably stays since at least it's an efficient wipe in addition to going ham with stormwild caprador or whatever

Interesting call on Pariah+shield. Definitely worth considering. I'm not sure if I have enough indestructibles around that could survive wearing it, though?

Marauding Raptor I don't think does enough since he only triggers once per creature, plus with 3 health he's not super robust. I think I'd actually prefer to limit other enablers so that I'm focused primary on SP (for maximum memery).

I think I really want +x/+2 anthems so that any creature can survive SP, so I don't think Mirari's fits for me. Plus I think the mana risks incentivizing me to spin Golos an unpleasant number of times - obviously Golos's activated will be useful, but I don't want it to be overly centralizing. Vastwood could make sense - I haven't gotten too focused on lands yet, though I've pulled a bunch out. I think vastwood is in there.

Spiteful sliver I decided against...if it had 1 more toughness I'd do it, but it's a pretty low payoff and it needs anthem support, so nah.

Capridor is in the list. Probably the best of the damage=growth options with evasion and low cost.

Saber Ants was in the maybe list, but I don't own a copy lol. I could see running it, but I think at best it's borderline and I don't want to hunt down a copy. I think the spider is probably overall better even though it's only 1 token.

Tracker would be great except that it'll just die to SP. I had some fight stuff pulled out, but honestly my stuff isn't that big so it didn't seem very flexible. Removal is usually the area where I don't mind just playing the best cards and not worrying TOO much about matching the strategy of the deck, since having good answers can help an otherwise mediocre deck play decently at higher-powered tables without being OP at lower ones (as per my ramblings on Phelddagrif). And I think all the fight stuff is just so much worse than the "regular" removal that I don't think I can justify it.

Lol, imagine using rector to find a seldom-played 1-mana enchantment xD Possibly, the "synergy" of dying to SP is nice at least. I haven't really gotten to tutors - usually I do those last or second to last since I need to know what my targets are. If I'm just finding a 1-drop enchant, ofc I could just Idyllic Tutor. And there's all the OP black tutors to contend with. Building 5c is a nightmare.

Lol, I did consider arena. So hard to use, though, since they get to pick after you. At least it taps for mana under urborg. I do like the bad-land-tribal vibe.

World tree is 100% in, yes. Super excited to have a second land-based way to activate SP. I guess a third if I throw in Rishadan Port?

That's a fair point about ultimatum, but I feel like I want at least some kind of board wipe as a tutorable backup. I guess good old cyclonic does a good job while being a crappy Golos hit? Forgot to pull that out of Cosima tbh, oops.

I think I want to go wide enrage so that it has some variety in how it plays. Polyraptor is obvious a super strong hit but it could get boring to always win off the same stuff. I want to maximize the number of ways this deck can go off.

EDIT: looking through my tutors, it might be more fun to rely exclusively on land tutors. Obviously demonic is better than sylvan, but I worry that having flexible tutors might tend to over-streamline the deck. I guess I could just try it without them and see how I feel about it.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

WolfWhoWanders
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Post by WolfWhoWanders » 7 months ago

Came over to check the thread out, been super busy at work this week. Looking pretty good so far! I should have some time to brainstorm with you over the weekend hopefully. I always did want to make a Phelddagrif secret commander deck with red in it. Use Repercussion and hippos to kill a table. Glorious.
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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 7 months ago

Holy cow, Apex Altisaur and Brash Taunter is disgusting.

Sprouting Phytohydra + Anthem + lifelink counter seems really good.

Honestly, I really don't like Demonic Tutor and friends. I find they homogenize the game way too much. Sylvan Scrying and Crop Rotation are where I like to be.

I wonder if Cabal Coffers + Pestilence would be too strong to the extent that it'd take away from the Sorrow's Path gameplan.

For pariah you've got Shaman en-kor, Stuffy Doll, Brash Taunter, Swans of Bryn Argoll (although that could backfire hilariously), and Hungering Hydra. Slapping it on a Hornet Nest or whatever would be fine. You can always throw it on an opposing creature and let someone attack you to kill their stuff.

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

@WolfWhoWanders Toralf, God of Fury kinda makes that plan easy, but I guess it's less fun when it's obvious. Phelddagrif does make a good secret commander since he's basically unkillable. People complain about Derevi being unkillable but Phelddagrif's been bant's least killable commander since 1996 lol.

@materpillar Lol true about altisaur. Probably another reason not to want generic tutors, though. Once in a blue moon is funny, every game is boring.

I considered sprouting phytohydra (it was in the old 60 card version of the deck) but I think it's too much setup for not enough payoff. If it had 3 toughness I'd be all over it.

I think I agree about Dtutor. Not sure how I feel about Intuition here. It's obviously a great setup for Life from the Loam which makes a lot of sense both as card advantage and protection for our key pieces. It can get non-lands too though ofc. But only being able to get an enemy selection of 3 is probably safe enough?

Pestilence was exactly what I was thinking when I said I didn't want to overshadow SP lol. It's almost always better to activate pestilence than to activate sorrow's path if you've got both onboard. To a certain extent it's a bit arbitrary, but when building 5c I think it's important to have pretty strict rules to cut things down.

I cut shaman en-kor, sad to say. It doesn't actually do anything useful with SP, it's mostly just a way to go 1W: deal 1-ish damage to all your other creatures whenever a creature takes damage somewhere. Which (1) kinda steals SP's job, and (2) means that I'm committing another creature to the board that requires a decent number of enrage creatures to do anything, which seems like I'm just overcommitting. As far as pariah, Swans seems too risky to me. Hungering hydra doesn't seem indestructible enough. Hornet's nest is kinda awkward since it means that, while I maybe won't be attacked, I also probably can't activate SP until it dies (unless I have Collective Blessing). So that mostly just leaves Brash Taunter and Stuff Doll. I don't think it's enough synergy.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by materpillar » 7 months ago

I don't really get the point of Grimdancer. Wouldn't Duskfang Mentor or Vitality Hunter be better? Do you just like him more because he's a non-dead card by himself?

Isn't Brought Back only good with 2 fetch lands? Am I missing some other synergy here?

Your decklist looks like it's going to be massively focused on spinning Golos. The only card draw I can see is Swans of Bryn Argoll/Ripjaw Raptor/Body of Knowledge + Sorrow's Path. Being so spin focused probably isn't going to win you many friends, especially since you'll be hitting a fair amount of removal off the spins.

Hour of Promise is probably worth a slot because you have so many utility lands that make the deck function. Finding Sorrow's Path + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with one card seems really helpful or Nesting Grounds + Deserted Temple to kick the combo up a notch if you've already got it going.

Dryad of the Ilysian Grove also lets Sorrow's Path tap for mana and is really good with Life from the Loam.

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

Duskfang mentor needs a (non-human) target and doesn't do much of anything - I hope I have better things to do than spend 2 mana for a +1 counter. It basically sets me up for a 2-for-1 if the target gets removed. Vitality hunter doesn't do much either, and it costs a lot of mana to get the one lifelink counter that I actually want. Grimdancer doesn't require any support, and leaves behind a 3/3 deathtouch body after I steal his counter, which is a respectable blocker that survives SP. I could also move the deathtouch counter onto another land and hope to draw Noxious Field (if I don't have it). I think it's the clear best of those 3.

Brought back is amazing with 2 fetches, decent with 1, and it's a fine late-game board protection card. Compare to something like 3 visits which is dead late and does the same thing as BB with 1 fetch at best. The mana cost of BB might be a problem, though. We do have a lot of utility lands.

Loam is an additional draw engine with several tutors dedicated to setting it up, though admittedly going cycling with triomes is pretty slow. That said, I don't see a problem with using Golos as a card advantage engine. The only way to ensure that I wouldn't want to spin him is if I had something even MORE powerful to do, right?

As far as removal, there's not really that much (5-7 depending on definition) but idk that we're any less likely to make friends than anything else. Phelddagrif is pretty much nothing but removal and I make friends just fine. Whoever you're targeting with removal probably aren't the people you wanted to be friends with.

I considered hour of promise (one of my late cuts). It's definitely good. This is the problem with 5c decks, there are so many cards I want to include. I don't have sylvan scrying, crop rotation, or nylea's intervention either. I opted to focus more on the intuition plan since it can get us multiple lands plus protection for the combo. But yeah, idk what I'd cut for more tutors.

I think the combo will more resilient if I can keep as much as possible within the lands. Dryad leaves us more vulnerable to creature wipes. Also, at least goldfishing, it seems like a lot of the time The World Tree is the best first Golos target tbh, making Dryad unnecessary.

EDIT: I threw in hour of promise, sylvan scrying, and expo map. Cut abundant growth (playtesting has revealed that The World Tree is insane, usually the first tutor, and makes it irrelevant), wall of hope (too low impact despite my misplaced nostalgia), and merchant scroll (intuition is good, but it's not worth chain tutoring for in this case).
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

Got one complete game in, in between running around learning how to ride an electric unicycle and buying an e-scooter today.

Did a 5-player - people were a little wary when I brought out Golos, and he ate an immediate STP (which I didn't mind at all, lol) - used intuition for a pile of my 3 draw enragers, and was given body of knowledge. Everyone was pretty amused when I played out SP. One guy's deck seemed almost tailored to make me sad - repercussion, dictate of the twin gods, sulfuric vortex...luckily someone else wiped them all, while I was able to recur my BoK with Brought Back. From there, I draw into a ton of cards and loaded up a couple more enragers along with Urban Burgeoning which was, predictably, insane. SP and my board almost got wiped by Star of Extinction, but I made them indestructible...draw 20 cards and deal 20 damage, lol. Drew into cacophodon, bellowing aegisaur, fast mana, and LFTL, so I played all 3, tapped SP to start loading boys up on counters while dealing more damage and drawing more cards. One of my opponents suicided with Price of Progress killing everyone but me (I was up to ~80 thanks to Tamanoa), but I'm 99% sure I had the W anyway since I could kill anyone at instant speed with Boros Reckoner and STP+cacophodon triggers.

Only ended up casting Golos the one time, to effectively double ramp. Works for me.

As crucial as the enragers printed in ixalan have been to this build, I think The World Tree is maybe the most important card after Golos and SP itself. It kinda makes me want to just eschew a lot of my fixing since it does such an amazing job, and Golos can get it every game NP. Grab world tree, let golos die, recast for SP, and you're in really, really good shape. And if you've got land tutors to make that even faster, so much the better. I'd almost just cut urborg, but it's still nice to have a backup.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by materpillar » 7 months ago

Did you just naturally draw Sorrow's Path?

Lol Star of Extinction targeting Sorrow's Path. That's probably happened a single-digit number of times across all magic games ever. How'd you make everything indestructible? Flawless Maneuver is only creatures, so Sorrow's Path would have been destroyed. Or did you just recur it with Life from the Loam?

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

I did natural into SP, so it was an easy call to get world tree with Golos. And yes, I recurred it with lftl (I guess I didn't specify that I was targeting SP when I said I cast it).

I also got to Candelabra of Tawnos my Sorrow's Path...bet that hasn't happened too often either (although at least they're from the same era). It's actually pretty sick with Cacophodon, you can generate a bunch of mana with SP, then channel that mana into candelbra, then untap candelabra with Cacophodon. Given a few (enemy) turns you can untap most of your lands.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

Two more games today. Won the first game after several trips around the table of Cacophodon with 2 Stuffy Dolls, with a lifelink counter on my SP. Interestingly there was an infinite discovered - Cacophodon x2 + Sorrow's Path + The World Tree + Yavimaya Hollow. Doesn't do anything on its own (except kill you) but with a lifelink counter it goes infinite life, and you can trigger other enrage. The easy mode, of course, is to just made caco indestructible somehow, which can generate infinite mana and triggers (again, if you can survive damage somehow).

This time I did end up using Golos a lot. It was definitely strong and gave me pretty unlimited value in the late game. Was it overpowered? Hmm, maaaaybe, but I don't see a way to avoid it without putting in even better CA.

Anyway, ended the first game with ~200 life. That was silly.

Next game people busted out more powerful decks and I fell behind...Feather killed Gitrog over 2 turns, hit me for 14, then Rhys started to get out of control. I had a pretty strong board but was down to 8 without a way to gain life, and Rhys had 75 angels or something like that, so Feather (at 3 life) went pro-white to kill Rhys, effectively suiciding since I had myriad ways to deal 3 damage on board. So, a slightly less satisfying win, but I won't complain if the tides of war go in my favor.

So far, SP is undefeated looool.

This deck is actually pretty damn sweet, I'm not gonna lie. I'm unironically enjoying playing it quite a bit.

EDIT: deck tweaks - I switched a Scrubland in over Savai Triome to increase the reliability of Brought Back. Otherwise it can be tricky to hit 2 untapped white sources.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by materpillar » 7 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
Next game people busted out more powerful decks and I fell behind...Feather killed Gitrog over 2 turns, hit me for 14, then Rhys started to get out of control. I had a pretty strong board but was down to 8 without a way to gain life, and Rhys had 75 angels or something like that, so Feather (at 3 life) went pro-white to kill Rhys, effectively suiciding since I had myriad ways to deal 3 damage on board. So, a slightly less satisfying win, but I won't complain if the tides of war go in my favor.
One of the more unknown perks of playing pure jank is you're more likely to be kingmakered in heads up situations like this.
DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
So far, SP is undefeated looool.
Golos too stronk. :P
DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
This deck is actually pretty damn sweet, I'm not gonna lie. I'm unironically enjoying playing it quite a bit.
I might proxy this up and give it a whirl in the next few weeks.

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

materpillar wrote:
7 months ago
Golos too stronk. :P
Maybe, I'm up to 5 straight wins. Still undefeated.

I won't go into as much detail - Game 1 was a runaway, sol ring ancient tomb, and things got moving real fast in a cacophodon, anthem, and bellowing aegosaur to keep making increasingly huge bees that killed everyone. People were justifiably concerned about power level, but game 2 and 3 were a lot more balanced. Golos' biggest "problem" is not that he's explosive, so much as that he represents very reliable value in the late-game. If this deck doesn't get killed, it'll probably eventually take over. I think another element of that tendency is that so much of my value is built into my lands. Once I've got a lifelink sorrow's path, it's hard to lose tbh. As stupid as that sounds. The lifelink combo is for reals.

I will go into a few more details on the third game - I had a slow start because I couldn't hit my 6th land for a few turns. One guy was playing a burn deck and knocked me down to TWO life, and I had no lifelink, so I was basically stuck. Burn guy had tons of life but was out of cards, with me and Korvold at low life but high value (potentially, since I couldn't tap SP yet). Intuitioned for cycling unicorn, Volrath's Stronghold, and Nesting Grounds (lftl in hand) - Korvold player gave me the cycling unicorn...not sure if he was just being nice or if he wanted my support to stop the burn player killing us. Anyway, I had the +3/+3 anthem so my High Priest of Penance was durable, so Korvold and I teamed up a bit to kill the burn player's commander (Syr Carah, the Bold) by sending a saproling into my HPoP. I took the gamble and cycled the LL counter onto to gain 4. It (and I) lived until my next turn, so I loamed my Nesting Grounds and moved the LL counter onto SP...and from there I was home free. Burn player never got back into CA, Swans of Bryn Argoll (yeah, I know it was risky to play against the burn player lol) swung into Korvold to kill him, and my life total went into the stratosphere (lol lifelink + Polyraptor...) for a quick win. Pretty crazy considering I was down to 2 against a freaking burn deck for multiple turns without lifegain.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by materpillar » 7 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
materpillar wrote:
7 months ago
Golos too stronk. :P
Maybe, I'm up to 5 straight wins. Still undefeated.

...

Golos' biggest "problem" is not that he's explosive, so much as that he represents very reliable value in the late-game. If this deck doesn't get killed, it'll probably eventually take over. I think another element of that tendency is that so much of my value is built into my lands. Once I've got a lifelink sorrow's path, it's hard to lose tbh. As stupid as that sounds. The lifelink combo is for reals.
Golos is only slightly less explosive than super glass cannons like Chulane, Teller of Tales but has none of the glass in his cannon. He's really good early or late game.

I've been wondering with my high CMC deck what general I could replace Golos, Tireless Pilgrim with and actually have it function. It'd probably be Esika, God of the Tree // The Prismatic Bridge, and then I'd have to add golos replacements like Tempt with Discovery and such.

If you were to warp this into a non-Golos 5c pile, how do-able do you think that is? Who would you even swap to? Niv-Mizzet Reborn or Sisay, Weatherlight Captain (since she can tutor Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)?

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

materpillar wrote:
7 months ago
Golos is only slightly less explosive than super glass cannons like Chulane, Teller of Tales but has none of the glass in his cannon. He's really good early or late game.

I've been wondering with my high CMC deck what general I could replace Golos, Tireless Pilgrim with and actually have it function. It'd probably be Esika, God of the Tree // The Prismatic Bridge, and then I'd have to add golos replacements like Tempt with Discovery and such.

If you were to warp this into a non-Golos 5c pile, how do-able do you think that is? Who would you even swap to? Niv-Mizzet Reborn or Sisay, Weatherlight Captain (since she can tutor Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)?
Golos can definitely be explosive in "the golos deck". In this deck it's pretty rare for me to activate Golos and suddenly get enormous value though. Most of the time the CMC of the spells I'm casting is less than 7, he just gives me the draw for free basically (so roughly equivalent to Arcanis the Omnipotent). Definitely good but not completely busted. Overall I'm not a fan of the design - and I think this deck might be more fun if his ability was more like ": Draw 3" to prevent the occasional blowouts - but in this deck I don't think I've had any opponents feel badly about how he's being used, even if they didn't like Golos in general.

Running this deck without Golos would be a lot harder since we'd need a lot more land tutors. Like, a LOT more since we usually want at least 2 lands tutored per game. NMR doesn't really hit many things we play, so he's definitely out. SWC is decent but honestly World tree >>>>>> Urborg in a deck with this many utility lands. I think I might just go for The Prismatic Bridge, run a lot fewer (but high impact) enragers, and throw in every damn land tutor (or maybe just chain tutors to intuition for LFTL) in existence. That way you can make up for the lower density of enragers you'll inevitably have when you have to toss out 15% of the cards for more land tutoring.

Other option would be to go Child of Alara and be more lands-focused, but I think you'd probably be pushed towards just abandoning most of the enragers plan since it's not very synergistic. There's some cross-synergy since both plans are lands-focused but ultimately I don't think it makes enough sense.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

materpillar wrote:
7 months ago
Holy cow, Apex Altisaur and Brash Taunter is disgusting.
Maybe this isn't what you meant, but altisaur can't fight taunter with its ability (taunter can fight altisaur with the taunter ability though). Realized that today as I was trying to set it up lol. So it's not a way to deal a chill 100 damage. Tragic.

That said this deck is still undefeated. I think it's up to 7 wins by now. Though some I really have no idea how I pulled off. I think a decent part of the success is that I've got so many annoying blockers, so I tend not to get attacked.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 7 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
materpillar wrote:
7 months ago
Holy cow, Apex Altisaur and Brash Taunter is disgusting.
Maybe this isn't what you meant, but altisaur can't fight taunter with its ability (taunter can fight altisaur with the taunter ability though). Realized that today as I was trying to set it up lol. So it's not a way to deal a chill 100 damage. Tragic.
Oh, that is what I meant. Tragic. :(
DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
That said this deck is still undefeated. I think it's up to 7 wins by now. Though some I really have no idea how I pulled off. I think a decent part of the success is that I've got so many annoying blockers, so I tend not to get attacked.
Golos too stronk. :thinking:

Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 7 months ago

Do you think there's a universe in which this can be a budget deck?

As far as I see, the mandatory cards are Golos, Sorrow's Path, and The World Tree, flavoring with enrager's.

Would definitely lose points with bad mana and not ideal removal, but the jank is definitely the appeal on this anyway.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

I've been kind of thinking about that tbh, because this deck has been fun enough that I could see perming it.

I think the biggest loss is Intuition. Losing the optimal counters/removal is whatever. None of the enragers are TOO expensive, though polyraptor is a little pricey. Candelabra is neat but unnecessary, and the rest of the synergy pieces aren't terribly expensive. The manabase is the biggest other thing, and ofc it would be a lot worse on a budget, but tbh it's already very dependent on the world tree to function with all the utility lands. I almost want to cut urborg because trying to operate with just urborg is often unrealistic. I'd probably consider just ignoring blue, and possibly even black, and only having those colors when The World Tree is out. Then you can pretend you're a 3c deck with a not-terrible manabase.

So yeah, I could see it being decent.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 7 months ago

Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:

Enter the budget version — this is EXTREMELY dependent on getting the World Tree down and no one blowing it up, but otherwise it's the same principle of getting down enrage guys and tapping Sorrow's Path.

@DirkGently I hope you don't mind me taking your sweet brew and making it a worse budget version, but this just seemed way too sweet to leave alone!

My list has a couple blinks for Golos because I want several utility lands, and don't want to depend on other people killing him.

If you have any sweet cheap cards that you took out for better expensive stuff, I'd love to see them!

Thanks!
Last edited by Chromaticus 6 months ago, edited 3 times in total.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

I definitely don't mind, thanks for doing the work! It looks pretty solid to me (though I'd probably put a little more money into the manabase personally). I do wonder about including pyro/pesti since I think they'll take precedence over SP, but that might be a positive since we're playing without LFTL for protection.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

Chromaticus
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Post by Chromaticus » 6 months ago

To add to the janky lands package Axgard Armory can fetch up Blazing Sunsteel and Urban Burgeoning .

That will probably be the only time ever that Urban Burgeoning is tutored for :D

I do own Life from the Loam - just didn't know if it would be worth it without fetches.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 6 months ago

Good point, and the land is itself tutorable. Could even throw in Abundant Growth so you have a secondary aura target.

You could try cycling, but yeah it's definitely best with fetches (and ideally intuition).
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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