Decided to try and ressurect my Thantis, the Warweaver deck, but make it actually good this time.Mookie wrote: ↑1 year agoMarisi vs Thantis is an interesting comparison, but I agree with this assessment. The two look to have similar play rates on EDHREC (2628 Marisi vs 2788 Thantis), but I find the former's goading to be mildly annoying, while I respect the latter's Blood for the Blood God! vibes. If you're going to build an 'all combat, all the time' deck, it's only fair that you also participate in the violence.Dunadain wrote: ↑1 year agoMarisi, Breaker of the Coil WISHES he could be half as cool as Thantis, the Warweaver and that's a fact.
The original decklist was just a pile of cards that had to do with attacking, and making my opponents attack, I'm hoping that, by building an outline and an actual gameplan for the deck, before actually throwing cards in, I can make something a bit more effective this time around.
Problems with the old deck:
- Low Impact Cards: the original list ran cards like Hissing Miasma or Vow of Malice. I fell pretty hard into the synergy trap (if a card is better in this deck than the average deck, it's a good card for this deck). Not this time, every card needs to be impactful.
- Not enough Removal
- Lack of Wincons: Pretty much the only good win con in the original list was Insurrection. Otherwise, it was mostly just give your opponents a bunch of stuff, and hope they killed eachother. Don't get me wrong, Thantis, the Warweaver hits hard, but I think I need more.
- Deck was Ice Cold to Aristocrat decks and Boardwipes
- not enough card draw
In the removal department, we can run cards like Kenrith's Transformation and Beast Within to remove problematic abilities while making sure there is still material on the table for opponents to swing at each other
I think board wipe deterrents, like The Meathook Massacre can function as an answer to aristocrats AND board wipes while also functioning as a win con.
I'm probably going to cut most of the goad cards, Thantis, the Warweaver is already doing a good job making things attack and dissuading opponents from sending stuff at you. And while I'll want a couple back-up cards, the goad cards usually either only work once (Disrupt Decorum) or they only work on one player (Geode Rager). I do think Bloodthirsty Blade is okay, as it permanently keeps the biggest threat off my back, and Spectacular Showdown might be a good closer.
I need to run more cards that make sure my opponents are attacking each other, can't let @DirkGently with his no-creature-besides-my-commander nonsense miss out on the fun! At the same time, I need to cut the bad ones.
I need to try to prevent players from blocking, not only because I want them to be taking damage, but blocking usually ends with one or both creatures dying, resulting in less damage going forward. The neat thing about having to attack is that you can't leave things behind to block (unless they have vigilance, love you Thantis, the Warweaver
). However, Summoning Sick creatures can still block. I remember liking Urabrask the Hidden for this purpose, new creatures are tapped down, old creatures attack each turn. Hopefully I can find some other options. I certainly can't play cards like Bedlam, however, as I still need to be able to block with Thantis, the Warweaver (rules for thee and not for me!).Probably going to need a back-up plan for fending off the armies I'm giving out if Thantis dies.
Alright So I need:
Removal (and maybe some protection), 5-8
Ways to give out more creatures 10-15
Back-up commanders (both Grand Melee effects and ways to dissuade attackers from coming at me) 2-5
Board Wipe Deterrents (maybe a couple board wipes of my own) 5-8
Ramp 10-15
Card Draw 10-15
Ways to prevent blocking 2-5
Winconditions 2-5
lands( duh) 35-40
Ways to Give Out More Creatures
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Arguably the most important part of the deck, or at least the cards that make this deck unique.
I think that's a pretty exhaustive list.
In general I think the cards that donate themselves aren't as good. Ideally, any one of these cards should be providing multiple attackers for our opponents, Obvious exceptions are Slicer, Hired Muscle // Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist who is an absolute monster and maybe Tahngarth, First Mate
I'm not going to talk about ALL the cuts, but here's my reasoning for some of the less obvious:
Khârn the Betrayer I don't really like playing the Humble Defector prisoner's dilemma of "if I give this to you, will you promise to give it back. I suppose you could argue that, even if they don't give it back, you're still getting a bunch of +1/+1 counters out of it, as most opponents will gleefully ram it into Thantis, the Warweaver for +2 cards every turn, but I think, in practice, youll find you don't have enough control over this card.
Tempt with Vengeance, in a similar vein, puts too much control in the hands of your opponents
I've already managed to narrow the list down to:
But I should probably find another cut or two.
Awaken the Erstwhile is suspect, It's kind of expensive, and won't even make that many tokens sometimes. Other times, however, I can see it being great, particularly against Simic goodstuff (Stop drawing cards and start swinging!)
Ways to give out more creatures
Have some tokens
Donate themselves
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I think that's a pretty exhaustive list.
In general I think the cards that donate themselves aren't as good. Ideally, any one of these cards should be providing multiple attackers for our opponents, Obvious exceptions are Slicer, Hired Muscle // Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist who is an absolute monster and maybe Tahngarth, First Mate
I'm not going to talk about ALL the cuts, but here's my reasoning for some of the less obvious:
Khârn the Betrayer I don't really like playing the Humble Defector prisoner's dilemma of "if I give this to you, will you promise to give it back. I suppose you could argue that, even if they don't give it back, you're still getting a bunch of +1/+1 counters out of it, as most opponents will gleefully ram it into Thantis, the Warweaver for +2 cards every turn, but I think, in practice, youll find you don't have enough control over this card.
Tempt with Vengeance, in a similar vein, puts too much control in the hands of your opponents
I've already managed to narrow the list down to:
Decklist
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But I should probably find another cut or two.
Awaken the Erstwhile is suspect, It's kind of expensive, and won't even make that many tokens sometimes. Other times, however, I can see it being great, particularly against Simic goodstuff (Stop drawing cards and start swinging!)
Backup Commanders
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Decklist
Keep Attacking
Dont Attack Me
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Not sure how exhaustive this is, as there's all sorts of different ways to dissuade attacks, and some cards probably fell through my scryfall searches
I like the idea of Avatar of Slaughter, but I don't know how good it'll actually be, it's expensive, but it makes sure everyone hits like a truck.
I think Hissing Miasma and all it's look-a-likes (there's 4) are bad, I'd be down to try a similar effect that drains 2 (at a higher MV of course) But i think it's too easy to ignore a 1 life ping.
I think these are the ones I'll run:
Decklist
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Removal
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I'm not sure how hard I want to go on the Kenrith's Transformation gimmick, I should probably run at least some of the generically good removal (like Assassin's Trophy, but I really like the idea of playing non-staple removal.
At any rate, here's a list of removal that synergizes with the commander:
Well, not nearly as much stuff as I'd hoped for, turns out most enchantments that remove abilities are Blue or White we also miss out on Generous Gift, Pongify, and Rapid Hybridization, Oh well.
Here's my tentative removal list:
At any rate, here's a list of removal that synergizes with the commander:
Decklist
consolation tokens
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Well, not nearly as much stuff as I'd hoped for, turns out most enchantments that remove abilities are Blue or White we also miss out on Generous Gift, Pongify, and Rapid Hybridization, Oh well.
Here's my tentative removal list:
Decklist
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No blocking
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Unfortunately, I can't really find anything besides Urabrask the Hidden for this area, best I could find was Bothersome Quasit which works with some cards, but not most. Idk, if you have any ideas, please share.
Otherwise, we'll just need to make sure we are using creatures that we don't mind if they die to blockers (things like Grismold, the Dreadsower.
Otherwise, we'll just need to make sure we are using creatures that we don't mind if they die to blockers (things like Grismold, the Dreadsower.
Board Wipe/Aristocrat Deterrants
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We really need these cards to trigger off of both our creatures and our opponents creatures dying, as we are going to be giving them a lot of creatures. I also don't really care about gaining life, so no Deathgreeter.
There's a lot of cards like Yahenni, Undying Partisan that get +1/+1 counters when things die, most of them don't do much against a board wipe, since they are going to get swept up in the wipe as well, but Yahenni, Undying Partisan get a pass since he can give himself indestructible.
Unfortunately there aren't a ton of options in this field (having to trigger off of opponent's stuff dying really narrows the field), so for now, I'm planning on running all, or at least most, of these.
Decklist
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There's a lot of cards like Yahenni, Undying Partisan that get +1/+1 counters when things die, most of them don't do much against a board wipe, since they are going to get swept up in the wipe as well, but Yahenni, Undying Partisan get a pass since he can give himself indestructible.
Unfortunately there aren't a ton of options in this field (having to trigger off of opponent's stuff dying really narrows the field), so for now, I'm planning on running all, or at least most, of these.
Winconditions
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Decklist
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This is what I have right now, another 1 or 2 would be cool.
Rancor is a much slower wincon then the other options, but it's efficient, sticky, and turns Thantis, the Warweaver into a tramply monster
Card Draw
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Decklist
Toski, Bearer of Secrets
Black Market Connections
Sylvan Library
Phyrexian Arena
Call of the ring
Family's favor
Runic Armasaur
Snake Umbra
Dragonborn ChampionApproximate Total Cost:
I don't have much to say, it's just card draw that works with what we are trying to do. Probably could be optimized a bit, but I think it's a pretty decent selection of card draw.
Also, we have Hansk, Slayer Zealot to be another way to draw cards.
Ramp
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This will be all very basic, but it's necessary with a MV 6 commander
Ramp
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Mana base should probably be a bit greedier, but I got to go, so maybe I'll take out some basics later. Otherwise, I'll play a few games first, then see.
