Otrimi - My Commander is a land

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Ok, I've decided to go with Otrimi, the Ever-Playful as my commander. There's a few moving parts here. The main strategy of the deck is to set mutates on manlands, and then repeatedly blow up nonlands while keeping your giant mutate pile nice and safe, except from Strip Mine. Unless you can get a hexproof and/or indestructible counter on it.

To go hand in hand with this, it's time for my favourite dumb draw engine, namely Life from the Loam, as set up by Intuition. Helps protect our better manlands, keep the land drops flowing, and get value from cycling.

One other thing to note: those big spicy mutate piles can indeed be copied! I did some testing on arena, even. It copies all the abilities of the mutate pile BUT, for purposes of Insatiable Hemophage it will "restart" at 0 since that permanent hasn't mutated. But this does mean that, if your pile dies after you copy it, you can use otrimi to retrieve them and then dump them back onto the now superpile.
Otrimi, the land

Commander (1)


Just in case (2)


Approximate Total Cost:

original post for posterity:

Just a dumb idea I had, trying to decide if I actually want to do it, and if so, which commander to use. Basically, play a bunch of board wipes, and turn a land into your commander with mutate, then load it up with counters, maybe some equipment.

Full list of options includes:

Brokkos, Apex of Forever - seems like you're paying mostly for the stats, and in this case the land has to go on top for protection, making the stats irrelevant. So likely a bad choice.

Illuna, Apex of Wishes - in this case, you're paying for the trigger, which probably won't have great targets in a deck like this. Plus we're cut off from most traditional board wipes. Don't see it.

Nethroi, Apex of Death - also paying for the trigger, in a creature-light-to-nonexistent deck. Nope.

Otrimi, the Ever-Playful - you do pay for the stats, but the mutate is cheap and you get the trigger. This is an interesting choice since you can load him up with mutates while keeping him protected as a manland. But the land still has to stay on top which is annoying for buffing it up. Also if he doesn't die idk how the mutate gets into the grave. Maybe dredge?

Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt - You're mostly paying for the trigger and double strike, both of which are pretty nice. Stats are low so you're not missing out too much. Being in white gives good board wipe access. Getting it buff enough to kill quickly seems a little tricky though. Other mutate options in mardu are balls, so likely no other mutates.

Vadrok, Apex of Thunder - A weird one, you do get white for wipes, but unfortunately he can't really cast them on his own. Keywords suck and body sucks, so mostly this is about the trigger but idk what I'd want to target, or how I'd get him big afterwards. Some potential but I'm having a hard time seeing it.

Right now I'm mostly thinking Snapdax, but Otrimi does offer some interesting possibilities. If anyone has a Vadrok concept I'd be curious too. The rest seem like poor choices from where I'm sitting.
Last edited by DirkGently 1 year ago, edited 2 times in total.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Outcryqq
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Post by Outcryqq » 1 year ago

Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt is the obvious choice IMO. You should be able to abuse double strike, which would lead me to include a number of Sword of X and Y for those sweet triggers, which plays well with sweepers and creatures that dodge sweepers. And in Mardu, you've got access to the best sweepers.

Edit: and as a backup play to Snapdax, these colors also give you access to a number of indestructible creatures, if you'd like a few of them, who also could carry equipment well. Thinking Zurgo Helmsmasher. Also, if you go this route, monarch cards would be a nice subtheme, as you should consistently retain the monarch and draw extra cards, which will be in high demand because you're sans blue/green.

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Post by Guardman » 1 year ago

I think this is a neat idea for a deck. And I agree from a stat/ability/wrath standpoint Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt is probably best, but I think the biggest problem with him is the manlands he gives you access to.

Here are all the manlands available in commander (sorted by color):
Manlands
Approximate Total Cost:

Looking over all the lands, WBR is probably the worst combination in terms of manlands. While BUG is probably the best.

There are also the Genjus:

Genju of the Fields
Genju of the Falls
Genju of the Fens
Genju of the Spires
Genju of the Cedars
Genju of the Realm

Genju of the Realm is out. As for the rest, Falls, Fen, and Cedars are all pretty good. Cheap activate, decent stats and/or ability. Fields is alright in that its durable, but without being able to gain ten life each time it hits, it is worse than the other three. And Genju of the Spires gets taken out by any removal, though if you get Snapdrax on it, it could offer big damage.

Overall while a Snapdrax build would probably work just fine, I think the biggest potential is probably in a BUG shell with either Brokkos, Apex of Forever or Otrimi, the Ever-Playful.

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

If you haven't played with multiple mutate creatures yet, then it is a really fun thing to do.
You'd wan't to play green as it has the best ones like Auspicious Starrix, Gemrazer, Migratory Greathorn, Sawtusk Demolisher.
Therefore Otrimi, the Ever-Playful would probably be the best option for this type of deck.

But if you were literally only looking at your commander only without any other mutates then either Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt or Vadrok, Apex of Thunder.
Restore Balance is a card you can look to use with Vadrok, Apex of Thunder. So the idea is that you try and be patient and only have say 3 or 4 lands in play when you mutate to your land, so opponents are having to sacrifice their creatures (except one) and lands.

Unfortunately equipment stops being attached to your land when it stops being a creature. So the idea of having to re-equip each turn seems really bad.
So I really have no idea how you'd build it up to pressure opponents at all?

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 year ago

I think Snapdax is the best pick, at least partially because he's a bit off the beaten path anyways. Plus, his colors work well for both aspects of the plan: Mardu has tons of wraths, obviously, but they also have some of the best equipment tutors/synergies. And he's got strong synergies with the man lands in his colors, between turning Genju of the Spires into a 12 damage beatstick base, or working really well with Lavaclaw Reaches into an even more efficient pump.

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Post by Hawk » 1 year ago

This mostly seems awkward compared to just playing boardwipe tribal with Zurgo Helmsmasher or Sevinne, the Chronoclasm but I will bite - I agree Vadrok or Snapdax are the way to go.

One idea with Vadrok is to abuses Awaken? Ondu Rising and Roil Spout give you a thing to cast that is at least there for Vadrok and also help you to assemble your land army. You'd basically be adding red to a Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper but that doesn't seem terrible to me...

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I think a lot of y'all are missing the point of the concept - if I'm using a genju or whatever, then I've got a nonland permanent exposed, both from my own wipes or from my opponents removal. Sticking with purely manlands might be too difficult, but if I'm giving up on that dream then I'm probably pivoting towards vehicles, Chimeric Egg, etc. There wouldn't be any reason to stick with lands specifically at that point.

As far as building up pressure, equipment + double strike is pretty decent, even if I have to pay 2 to do it. 2 to deal 4 additional commander damage, shock twice, draw two, make harder to block sounds like a solid payoff to me (for example). But it does leave the equipment open to removal ofc. Alternatively, I could go pure +1/+1 counters, something like Citadel Siege could build snappy up pretty quickly. Imagine he's Inkmoth Nexus, first turn he hits for 6 infect, then after that he threatens lethal every turn, but I can keep him unanimated if I smell removal. And if they kill citadel siege, I don't really care once I get a few counters on him. It'd be a lot slower with something like Blinkmoth Nexus, but with commander damage it'd still add up pretty fast. And as long as I have a manland and the mana to mutate him, he's always got pseudo-haste, so the pressure is real.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Ok, I've done a little more thinking on the concept (and have gone through a lot of cards) and I can see a few potential ways to go. Most of them make me giggle.

-snapdax board wipe control, probably just playing snappy on lands (or potentially vehicles or whatever). Play a bunch of stuff to boost his power (mostly via counters) to make him a lethal threat. Unfortunately the mutate options in mardu are fried ass so probably no other mutates.

-Illuna chain mutate, with mutates as the only nonland permanents in a control shell. Play all the wipes you can scrounge up in her poor colors (for wipes, I mean) alongside other control spells, and then stick her on a land and animate her to mutate into mutate into mutate for insane value. Hopefully don't exile your deck.

-Otrimi mutate, playing a more conservative game than illuna by rebuying mutates if he should die, rather than chaining through them. Again, sticking them on a land to make it resilient, alongside board wipes. Unfortunately this means none of the superior white board wipes, otherwise this would probably be an easy pick.

-Nethroi "just for the colors" mutate. Nethroi himself sucks for this idea, but he gives you the excellent mutates of black and green, with the excellent board wipes of white. Otherwise pretty much the same plan as Otrimi, minus the resiliency. Wish he could return them to hand instead of battlefield, lol.

-Vadrok, small-ball control. Fewer board wipes, more targeted removal, so he can actually cast it. Otherwise similar deal. Lots of cheap draw spells to keep the gas flowing. Unfortunately, as with snappy, you're stuck with the ass-tastic RW mutates that really offer nothing, but the ability is pretty nice.

Nobody is quite perfect, between mutate options, control options, and the actual commander themselves, there's a lot of plusses and minuses. Overall I'd say:

Snapdax
mutates: 1
control: 5
commander: 4

illuna
Mutates: 4
control: 2
commander: 5

Otrimi
Mutates: 5
control: 3
commander: 4 (brokkos: 2)

Nethroi
Mutates: 4
control: 5
commander: 1

Vadrok
Mutates: 2
control: 4
commander: 3

So idk, kind of tricky. I guess Otrimi has the highest overall score. Missing out on red means I can't create a land with "T: deal 13 damage to any target" though, which makes me sad.

One other minor thing to note is the manland options, specifically the dual manlands. None of them are perfect since they all cost a lot to activate compared to Inkmoth Nexus and co, but in particular the UG one seems kind of hilarious since it can turn itself hexproof against targeted LD. RB one is neat for 1-shotting with snappy, while the WR one is depressing. I'm also excited to run Spawning Pool for the first time ever.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

Elywood
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Post by Elywood » 1 year ago

This is a cool concept and one I'd be interested in building! I think a subtheme that will be almost necessary to support this strategy is a lands-matter theme which basically means you want access to green. 1) Land fetching like Nylea's Intervention, Scapeshift, etc. to get your manlands you need and 2) ramp, since the manlands most of the time will need to be used for non-mana purposes: Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Oracle of Mul Daya, etc.

On a separate tangent.. have you thought about potentially taking it down another line with something like abusing Estrid + enchantress + enchanted manlands?

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Not really sure what estrid would do to enhance manlands besides the protection counter. The point of the mutate strat is that your commander becomes the land, so you can snipe people with the land to kill them after wiping their board. Anyway Estrid is a pretty gross commander, so I'm not really interested in her to begin with.

I might end up running some amount of land tutor, but I don't think we'll need TOO much, we only really need one manland to get the party started, and except a couple they're all pretty workable. Another thing I realized while perusing is that we can do hilarious things with Vesuva and Thespian's Stage once we've loaded up a land with mutates. Seems pretty slick with Parcelbeast especially.

As for ramp, we'll see. Parcelbeast is a decent draw and ramp engine on his own, so maybe just having tutors for him will be sufficient. The Illuna version would definitely want ramp to keep slamming mutates, but I think the other versions will be playing a grindier game, where they quietly load up a land with mutates while controlling the board, and don't start swinging until mana isn't much of an issue. But if there is a lot of draw, likely Exploration and Burgeoning could make the cut.

EDIT: oh hell, we could play any Clone variants to become copies of the mutated-to-the-sky land, and then if the original land is destroyed, use the copied land (via otrimi...I'm pretty sure this will be an otrimi deck at this point) to return them all to my hand and replay them on the copied land, thus giving them all the mutate abilities TWICE. Lol....

And since the top card won't be Otrimi, legend rule won't be an issue. Ofc the copies won't do commander damage. They'll just be lands...with a dozen mutate abilities...

This is going to be a very weird deck.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Alright, I finished a first draft of the deck, good enough to go try tomorrow. It looks like it's going to be very weird.

I will say there weren't nearly as many board wipes as I would have liked in sultai. So I might try building an alternative version with one of the white options instead. Idk, I really like this idea even if it's stupid. Plus I kinda want to make a Avatar of Woe land by putting Porcuparrot and Insatiable Hemophage on the same land. You don't even need to animate it to start sniping enemy creatures.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

Elywood
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Post by Elywood » 1 year ago

Nice, I like it. Couple of recommendations Brokkos, Apex of Forever seems like an auto-include over some of the other worse mutate creatures? Crop Rotation and Scapeshift potentially to get the right set of lands you need? Also Field of the Dead, Mirrorpool, Dark Depths maybe (the latter 2 feel like they could somehow be weirdly interactedwith)? It also feels like you're lacking some card draw..

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I ultimately cut Brokkos because he just...doesn't really do anything? We can't use the 6/6-ness without losing the land protection. He triggers my existing mutate for 5, but then how is he ending up in my grave anyway? And it's kind of redundant with Otrimi's recursion ability. Sure, you load up a land, it gets killed, you otrimi a new land and then maybe recur a mutate and play it + brokkos in the same turn, but that doesn't seem common enough to be worth it. I'd rather have basically any mutate creature with an actual mutate trigger. And I cut the ones that sucked, I think all the rest are pretty good.

Crop rotation and scapeshift were considered, but I don't think they're really worth the cost of being down a card. Scapeshift is way overkill anyway (although it does set up loam).

I actually intentionally avoided any non-human, non-mutate creatures because I want to force the deck to mutate onto lands. if I'm making zombies and marit lages, suddenly I'm going to have situations where the right play is to mutate onto a token, and that's not what I want the deck to do. Mirrorpool was considered but I think it's too high of a cost compared to stage and vesuva, since it etbs, requires colorless, and costs 6 to activate.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

Elywood
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Post by Elywood » 1 year ago

The thing with Otrimi is that it requires you to connect so you're losing the land protection already? Brokkos is more of a redundant piece that lets you trigger mutate even if you dont have Otrimi out and can be recurred if you get stripmine'd or something from the grave. I haven't play tested it obviously, but redundancy is never a bad thing!

To go with your lftl engine: Lotus Field , Lotus Vale, Crucible of Worlds ?

EDIT: Oops not Lotus Vale haha. I thought it had hexproof for some reason

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I only have to activate the land (whether to connect or add more to the stack) if I think it's safe. And ofc that makes it generally immune to any sorcery-speed removal. Plus I can have the tech of sanctum of eternity to recur if someone tries to STP my commander pile while it's active on my turn. And I've got the hexproof/indestructible counter givers too, which make it nearly unremovable.

I really just don't think brokkos does enough. It's not that I can't see situations where he's useful, it's just that I expect a lot more from a card that costs 5 than "sometimes gives some value". He's not really a replacement for Otrimi - if my land does get blown up, otrimi can eventually collect all the pieces again for big repeated triggers. Brokkos can trigger the pile once. Not really comparable. I like Brokkos but I think his deck would look VERY different, and focus more on "creatures which are powerful when they're 6/6s" and less on big mutate stacks. If you can't use the 6/6 body then he's just not exciting.

Crucible is redundant, not synergistic, with loam, and it gets blown up by our wipes so it's not really a good backup here (also doesn't work with burgeoning). Loam doesn't need backup anyway, it's among the hardest to kill things in the format, that's why I love it so much. Lotus vale is fine but I don't think it's particularly great since it etbts and only produces one color at a time. I'd rather just run a bounceland, it does roughly the same thing but doesn't require loam to get the value. If it was a manland, though, I'd be all over that business. Unfortunately for it and Cascading Cataracts I don't think there are efficient enough ways to turn normal lands into manlands repeatedly.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6


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DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
Seems like it could use some more Devastation Tide. Lookin cool :)
Oh balls, I missed that one going through my box. Maybe I can cut just one more basic... :P
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

You can use bounce lands to return your mutate land and all the mutate creatures so that you can cast again for triggers; Simic Growth Chamber, Golgari Rot Farm, Dimir Aqueduct. Bounce lands also go nice with Exploration and Burgeoning.

Academy Ruins to keep putting Boompile, Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone back on top.

Entomb can either put a mutate creature for Otrimi, the Ever-Playful or put Life from the Loam to get your dredge on.

Kederekt Leviathan is great with the Life from the Loam dredge plan.

Gaze of Granite as another sweeper.

Sensei's Divining Top to go with all the fetch-land and tutors and it allows you to setup Auspicious Starrix and Parcelbeast better. You can always put it on top of library when you do one of your mass destruction spells. You know what I mean its basically impossible to get rid of.

Search for Azcanta goes nice with Life from the Loam, and you look to transform it so that its a land for the purposes of your deck.

Tempt with Discovery is too risky as opponents can get a Strip Mine, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, etc, which are the bane of this deck.
On that note some number of protection cards is necessary. Disallow, Tale's End, Voidslime are the most versatile when it come to stopping spells and Strip Mine type effects.
Tragic Lesson can be used as card draw and as a way to protect your setup by returning the mutate land so that you can recast for more triggers.

If you play Crop Rotation then you can use this as a versatile tutor, and then even use it to protect your mutate land by using a bounce land to return them to hand in response to a Strip Mine or whatever.

The deck screams for Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers to help pay for your spells.

Mirage Mirror is interesting in that you can turn it into lands and creatures.

Easy cuts Sylvan Scrying, Expedition Map, Grim Tutor, Crux of Fate.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Got a chance to run it, and...ha, well, it's about as clunky as one might imagine. The ramp is actually pretty strong despite not running any of the fast mana artifacts, but it tends to peter out pretty quickly. Problems include: (1) lands really aren't that hard to kill especially when they're usually being animated into pretty small creatures, and (2) it really takes a pretty excruciating amount of mana to keep animating, and (3) it applies very little pressure, and (4) it's really easy to run out of juice.

I don't know that I can do all that much with the deck concept as it is. It's funny but bad. There are definitely some minor upgrades but I think the strategy itself is just not going to be good, to the surprise of no one. But I can see some alternative avenues that would probably have more juice:

-dump onto a really well protected creature - easily the best option being Elusive Tormentor // Insidious Mist. It dies to sac or mass bounce/exile/-x but otherwise is basically unkillable, and it's in blue so you can just counter the random grave pacts. Probably just run 1-2 of these bases, with lots of tutors and control. If it somehow dies you can either recur it, or just make a mutate stack of actual mutates like a chump.

-play mutate onto a bouncy dude like Glitterfang, which leaves you basically the same amount exposed as with most manlands, but with the downside that you can't stack things super deep but you can retrigger them over and over, so that's neat. You can also put the mutate on top of the glitterfang to get some more significant hits in.

The downside to the first plan is that it really goes best with BUG because of ET and the preponderance of strong mutates in those colors, but both bug commanders are built around recurring mutates from the grave which ideally won't happen.

The downside to the second is that you're stuck playing red most likely, with white also having options, and those options generally sucking. Though there are also some blue options, so maybe it could work? Screw it, let's list them all out:

Archwing Dragon
Blinking Spirit
Brightling
Darting Merfolk
Dimensional Infiltrator
Fleeting Image
Glitterfang
Lantern Spirit
Palinchron
Skywing Aven
Selenia, Dark Angel
Thalakos Scout
Viashino Sandscout
Wydwen, the Biting Gale

some more efficient than others. By color they're mostly blue and red, with a few white. So Jeskai could work. It does mean you get garbage tier mutates but that was already true. Since you have to replay them frequently it matters less ofc. Could also go temur, but then you've got the lack of board wipe problem. Sultai kinda splits the difference between lack of wipes and lack of bouncy boys.

Idk, I'll probably play this version at least a bit more first.
darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
You can use bounce lands to return your mutate land and all the mutate creatures so that you can cast again for triggers; Simic Growth Chamber, Golgari Rot Farm, Dimir Aqueduct. Bounce lands also go nice with Exploration and Burgeoning.

Academy Ruins to keep putting Boompile, Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone back on top.

Entomb can either put a mutate creature for Otrimi, the Ever-Playful or put Life from the Loam to get your dredge on.

Kederekt Leviathan is great with the Life from the Loam dredge plan.

Gaze of Granite as another sweeper.

Sensei's Divining Top to go with all the fetch-land and tutors and it allows you to setup Auspicious Starrix and Parcelbeast better. You can always put it on top of library when you do one of your mass destruction spells. You know what I mean its basically impossible to get rid of.

Search for Azcanta goes nice with Life from the Loam, and you look to transform it so that its a land for the purposes of your deck.

Tempt with Discovery is too risky as opponents can get a Strip Mine, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, etc, which are the bane of this deck.
On that note some number of protection cards is necessary. Disallow, Tale's End, Voidslime are the most versatile when it come to stopping spells and Strip Mine type effects.
Tragic Lesson can be used as card draw and as a way to protect your setup by returning the mutate land so that you can recast for more triggers.

If you play Crop Rotation then you can use this as a versatile tutor, and then even use it to protect your mutate land by using a bounce land to return them to hand in response to a Strip Mine or whatever.

The deck screams for Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers to help pay for your spells.

Mirage Mirror is interesting in that you can turn it into lands and creatures.

Easy cuts Sylvan Scrying, Expedition Map, Grim Tutor, Crux of Fate.
Bounce lands are decent. Tbh I also want more basics though too. Land problems, man.

Ruins might be a little too combo-y for me. Granted I can do a similar thing with the GB mutate, but I have to keep hitting mutates.

entomb is a good call for sure.

leviathan I'll probably exclude for violating the "non mutate targets that aren't lands or other mutates" principle. Also it's kinda pricey for the effect.

I had in gaze but holy crap does that cost a lot to be effective, ugh. Maybe we could actually afford it but it seems awful.

top and search are both reasonable, could potentially try to fit them in.

In my current meta strip mines are really rare so that's not a big concern tbh. If everyone is getting lands we can just get a land that protects itself (i.e. Breeding Pool can regen through strip mine). And we can afford the cost with all those lands.

I think the tutors are pretty crucial tbh. At least the versatile ones like grimmy.

Mirage mirror is really weird. I think you can put the mutates on top, then then still copy a land or something for defense when necessary, although it'll lose all the mutates when it's transformed. Honestly I'm not 100% sure how that interaction works though. I wish the card existed in arena for testing.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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