[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

[Ruiner]

Now tell me, how do you pronounce Sean Bean?

If it's the end of the film I'd likely pronounce him dead.

[5colorsrainbow]

@Dunadain

Those cards are from the DnD set so its them you need to take umbridge with.

Also in addition to the fact the "rules" for English are basically just suggestions, when you work in fictional worlds even more of those "rules" go out the window I tended to not get too upset at errors in fantasy writing.

[TheGildedGoose]

I know it's a minuscule sample size but of the 35 games I've been tracking 27 of them have been won by one of the first two players in turn order. There's an obvious advantage in going earlier, but dang, I didn't expect it to be this pronounced. We'll see how the data levels out over time.

[Dunadain]

@Dunadain

Those cards are from the DnD set so its them you need to take umbridge with.

Also in addition to the fact the "rules" for English are basically just suggestions, when you work in fictional worlds even more of those "rules" go out the window I tended to not get too upset at errors in fantasy writing.

This "problem" has existed longer than the entire UW concept, not that it really matters.

People dog on English a lot, it's certainly a complicated language, but it's not like you can do whatever you want. There might not always be one "right" answer, but there are certainly plenty of wrong answers. I don't really understand what fantasy has to do with it though. If you mean making up new words, that's not really what I'm talking about.

I also don't think that they are "errors" either. Obviously, it's incorrect grammar, but it's not like the rest of magic cards are rife with typos, they clearly have a pretty thorough editing process (despite how wordy some cards end up). So either they just aren't proof-reading card names (which seems unlikely, especially because we only see made-up compound words, no other errors) or they are intentional decisions for some reason beyond my mere mortal understanding.

[Dunadain]

Alright, I did my research, and it turns out Cliffgate is actually a proper noun, it's the name of a portion of Baldur's gate, in which case Cliffgate is actually correct.

Not really intuitive, and seeing the cycle it still makes me twitch, but fine, you win this one Wizards.

[materpillar]

I know it's a minuscule sample size but of the 35 games I've been tracking 27 of them have been won by one of the first two players in turn order. There's an obvious advantage in going earlier, but dang, I didn't expect it to be this pronounced. We'll see how the data levels out over time.

That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. It definitely is metagame dependent though. The less average game turns the more likely the extra turn will matter. I'd be surprised if your data levels out a whole lot.

[DirkGently]

Magic sets seem to be taking the same strategy as Community, where they just go maximum-tropes for whatever genre they're adopting.

[kirkusjones]

Does anyone have eyes on @DirkGently? The levels of pedantry in this conversation should have drawn him to the thread like a cartoon character to a pie on a window sill.

Sorry, I've been busy inventing the COOLEST FICTIONAL MAGIC SYSTEM OF ALL TIME.

I will not be taking questions at this time.

I have a question. I'm writing a mystery with magical elements for a short story contest this week. How much does the function/detail in a magic system actually matter to the story/reader? I've chosen specific terminology to get the point across, but don't plan on elaborating much beyond that due to a 2500 word count restriction.

Writing a novel/series of novels obviously allows for more space/time to develop a magic system, but how much is too much?

I could see the system being the driver of the story/defining the characters, but does that then lend itself to tropes and cliches?

I guess the central question is how do you plan to avoid the trap of cool things when creating a defined system in the worldbuilding process? How much do you listen to what the story/characters want vs. how you want them to exist and develop within your system?

[Hermes_]

Does anyone have eyes on @DirkGently? The levels of pedantry in this conversation should have drawn him to the thread like a cartoon character to a pie on a window sill.

Sorry, I've been busy inventing the COOLEST FICTIONAL MAGIC SYSTEM OF ALL TIME.

I will not be taking questions at this time.

I have a question. I'm writing a mystery with magical elements for a short story contest this week. How much does the function/detail in a magic system actually matter to the story/reader? I've chosen specific terminology to get the point across, but don't plan on elaborating much beyond that due to 2500 word count restriction.

Writing a novel/series of novels obviously allows for more space/time to develop a magic system, but how much is too much?

I could see the system being the driver of the story/defining the characters, but does that then lend itself to tropes and cliches?

I guess the central question is how do you plan to avoid the trap of cool things when creating a defined systems in the worldbuilding process? How much do you listen to what the story/characters want vs. how you want them to exist and develop within your system?

The biggest thing I've noticed that tends to make people mad is lack of consistency when it comes to how magic works.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... cAIsMagicA

[kirkusjones]

Is it not enough to just say it exists? The force was just the force before midichlorians and all that jazz.

I guess it depends on how integral the source and process of spellcasting is to the story/characters.

[toctheyounger]

Does anyone have eyes on @DirkGently? The levels of pedantry in this conversation should have drawn him to the thread like a cartoon character to a pie on a window sill.

Sorry, I've been busy inventing the COOLEST FICTIONAL MAGIC SYSTEM OF ALL TIME.

I will not be taking questions at this time.

I have a question. I'm writing a mystery with magical elements for a short story contest this week. How much does the function/detail in a magic system actually matter to the story/reader? I've chosen specific terminology to get the point across, but don't plan on elaborating much beyond that due to 2500 word count restriction.

Writing a novel/series of novels obviously allows for more space/time to develop a magic system, but how much is too much?

I could see the system being the driver of the story/defining the characters, but does that then lend itself to tropes and cliches?

I guess the central question is how do you plan to avoid the trap of cool things when creating a defined system in the worldbuilding process? How much do you listen to what the story/characters want vs. how you want them to exist and develop within your system?

To me it depends how much it matters to the story. Things that come to mind are the metal bending in Branderson's mistborn books, and the warrens in Malazan. Both are fairly integral to the stories themselves, and are thus suitably elaborated on. I feel like if you don't need it to drive your plot along don't waste the pages. Star wars is a good example. I'm not a fan either way, but the force was cooler before midichlorians were a thing. Or the First Law series by Joe Abercrombie. There's magic in it, but it's really abstracted and not massively relelvant to pushing the story along, so it just happens. And the story is better for that.

[DirkGently]

Does anyone have eyes on @DirkGently? The levels of pedantry in this conversation should have drawn him to the thread like a cartoon character to a pie on a window sill.

Sorry, I've been busy inventing the COOLEST FICTIONAL MAGIC SYSTEM OF ALL TIME.

I will not be taking questions at this time.

I have a question.

Fair enough, it's now a different time.

I'm writing a mystery with magical elements for a short story contest this week. How much does the function/detail in a magic system actually matter to the story/reader? I've chosen specific terminology to get the point across, but don't plan on elaborating much beyond that due to a 2500 word count restriction.

Writing a novel/series of novels obviously allows for more space/time to develop a magic system, but how much is too much?

With 2500 words there'd need to be a very good reason, and a very concise way to do it, to elaborate beyond a pretty standard "say the magic words" or "wave your hands and think magic thoughts" sort of magic system imo.

I definitely think it's easy to get caught up with "ooh, I thought of a cool way for this to work! let me describe it in excruciating detail!" when it comes to this sort of thing, when it doesn't really matter.

None of that is true for my system though - it's extremely cool, unique, can be shown in a visual, dynamic way with limited explanation necessary, and says a lot about the characters while also being crucial for the plot. That's why it's the best one.

I could see the system being the driver of the story/defining the characters, but does that then lend itself to tropes and cliches?

I'm curious what you meant by that specifically - I do have some ideas, not sure if they're what you meant - though I really doubt it in this case.

I guess the central question is how do you plan to avoid the trap of cool things when creating a defined system in the worldbuilding process? How much do you listen to what the story/characters want vs. how you want them to exist and develop within your system?

That's definitely an important question in writing. In this particular case, a lot of the story clicked into place once I figured out how the magic worked, and opened up lots of really interesting story beats, including a really exciting ending that might have been comparatively boring with "normal" magic systems.

As far as deciding how much to "force" things, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. At the end of the day, you want the story to feel organic, but of course you still have to create it, an inorganic process. Sometimes you need to change where you're going because your plans didn't make as much sense as you thought. Sometimes you have to tweak the setup to force them to make sense. Knowing when to do one versus the other is a judgment call.

[kirkusjones]

I'm curious what you meant by that specifically - I do have some ideas, not sure if they're what you meant - though I really doubt it in this case.

What sprang to mind first was something like Avatar: The Last Airbender where each of the bending types have similar personality traits that correspond to their element. Or even the color pie in Magic. Each color has a personality that comes across in the art and design of a lot of their cards. How many wizards in the game don't wear robes of some kind? It's not a trope limited to Magic, of course, but another example of having the system drive character/world building.

That's definitely an important question in writing. In this particular case, a lot of the story clicked into place once I figured out how the magic worked, and opened up lots of really interesting story beats, including a really exciting ending that might have been comparatively boring with "normal" magic systems.

As far as deciding how much to "force" things, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. At the end of the day, you want the story to feel organic, but of course you still have to create it, an inorganic process. Sometimes you need to change where you're going because your plans didn't make as much sense as you thought. Sometimes you have to tweak the setup to force them to make sense. Knowing when to do one versus the other is a judgment call.

I appreciate you talking about this, I'd be curious to check in with you throughout the process to see how/if things change.

In regards to the story I'm working on, I pitched it to a friend who is in a couple of my writing groups last night. He pointed out that I tend to use magic as a crutch and was curious what the story would look like without it. For reference, my prompt is: mystery genre, chain letter/email as the subject and a retiree as a character.

I had a con artist story involving a curse, an Origamist and a retired consulting ritualist with a gambling problem. Now I'm going to try to write a similar story, but more grounded in reality. I like trying to worldbuild through key names and places because the challenge of creating the right term or finding the right words to evoke the idea I'm going for is fun. So far I haven't made it past the first round and I'm making a concerted effort to write something less self-indulgent this time. We'll see.

Either way, it's always fun to talk to people about their writing, whether it's process stuff, story ideas or even word level choices.

[DirkGently]

What sprang to mind first was something like Avatar: The Last Airbender where each of the bending types have similar personality traits that correspond to their element. Or even the color pie in Magic. Each color has a personality that comes across in the art and design of a lot of their cards. How many wizards in the game don't wear robes of some kind? It's not a trope limited to Magic, of course, but another example of having the system drive character/world building.

Glad I asked for clarification because that wasn't what I imagined. Of course I agree that MTG uses a lot of well-worn tropes, but I don't necessarily think it needs to in order to support its magic system i.e. the color pie. The wizards could all wear track suits and it could work just as well. I guess aesthetically each color has a certain vibe it's going for which often overlaps with those tropes, but I think that's more a question of details rather than the system as a whole.

In my case, the magic system doesn't dictate anything about the characters, but it provides an opportunity for them to express things about themselves, and create interesting story moments.

I appreciate you talking about this, I'd be curious to check in with you throughout the process to see how/if things change.

In regards to the story I'm working on, I pitched it to a friend who is in a couple of my writing groups last night. He pointed out that I tend to use magic as a crutch and was curious what the story would look like without it. For reference, my prompt is: mystery genre, chain letter/email as the subject and a retiree as a character.

I had a con artist story involving a curse, an Origamist and a retired consulting ritualist with a gambling problem. Now I'm going to try to write a similar story, but more grounded in reality. I like trying to worldbuild through key names and places because the challenge of creating the right term or finding the right words to evoke the idea I'm going for is fun. So far I haven't made it past the first round and I'm making a concerted effort to write something less self-indulgent this time. We'll see.

Either way, it's always fun to talk to people about their writing, whether it's process stuff, story ideas or even word level choices.

How do you mean "as a crutch"? Like you use it to solve story obstacles? Or to make things more interesting? Also curious what you think makes your story self-indulgent.

"Consulting ritualist" sounds like something I'd write, I love mixing speculative fiction elements with the banal. Can't relate to the naming thing though. Back in college I would spend weeks picking out the perfect name for my characters and colossally wasting time, probably to avoid actually needing to put pen to paper and get some writing done. Nowadays I tend to just shove in literally the first thing that comes to mind so I can focus on the writing and worry about names later. And then half the time the placeholder name grows on me and I just leave it in.

My only big process life hack is that I always create 2 documents for my work, one that's the actual story and one that's my stream-of-consciousness vomit that I use whenever I'm not sure what to do. So if I ever feel like I'm stuck, I just go to the second document and start monologuing through it. "okay, so at this point in the story, this character is probably feeling grumpy with her husband, so how do I think she'd react to the news that he was killed be a seagull? I think there are probably three reasonable reactions, let me think about what I like about each" etc.

[TheGildedGoose]

I want to play an unsleeved deck that donates cards to people so they have to touch my heavily, heavily played cards. Who should I build?

[Hermes_]

I want to play an unsleeved deck that donates cards to people so they have to touch my heavily, heavily played cards. Who should I build?

well Zedruu the Greathearted duh

[kirkusjones]

I want to play an unsleeved deck that donates cards to people so they have to touch my heavily, heavily played cards. Who should I build?

Blim, Comedic Genius

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I want to play an unsleeved deck that donates cards to people so they have to touch my heavily, heavily played cards. Who should I build?

This makes me want to build a Zedruu deck with all my chaff cards and quite literally donate them as a way to thin the herd. "Here, have a Haphazard Bombardment. I just need the sleeve back."

[duducrash]

I want to play an unsleeved deck that donates cards to people so they have to touch my heavily, heavily played cards. Who should I build?

Build some courage and use it to seek help

😔

[Lifeless]

Jon Irenicus, Shattered One feels like the crappiest and therefore best option.

[RxPhantom]

I randomly stumbled across Orthion, Hero of Lavabrink, and now I really want to build it. Has anyone built it or played against it?

[TheGildedGoose]

I want to play an unsleeved deck that donates cards to people so they have to touch my heavily, heavily played cards. Who should I build?

Build some courage and use it to seek help

😔

It's going to have a rubber band around it, too, just like when I was a kid.

[Dunadain]

I've been considering brewing my own, or copying the "bar cube"

180 card cube, no sleeves, no tokens, no counters, just shuffle up and start drafting.

[Hermes_]

I bought some pokemon sleeves for my sliver deck....

[DirkGently]

Working on my review for the set, I'm up to 4 ugly commanders currently spoiled - just in the main set not CLU or MKC. I think that's the highest I've had so far. Anybody want to take guesses on which ones they are?