Sword of Once and Future

[Sinis]

The first Swords of Protection and Value came out in Darksteel, in 2004. The tenth and last sword came out this month. It's been almost 20 years of Swords, some very powerful (looking at you, Sword of Feast and Famine) and some pretty weak (Sword of Body and Mind is almost universally considered the worst, in my discussions).

So, where does this last sword belong? The surveil is a cute self-mill and card selection device that could be equivalent to drawing a card, and probably would be welcome anywhere if there weren't better options. The 'free flashback' feels pretty mediocre: Are you really going to have that many 0-2 mana value instants and sorceries in your graveyard that you want to use proactively? They do exist; Explore, Reckless Impulse, Night's Whisper, etc. Cards like Nature's Lore also work fine, though they present some anti-synergy with the surveil (unless you're reading "surveil 2" as "mill 2").

The obvious home is some kind of self-mill deck, since it gives you a wide selection for the flashback component, and generally is happy to surveil, but I'm pretty sure it's not good enough for some kind of 'general use', like Sword of Fire and Ice or Sword of Feast and Famine. It definitely doesn't seem like it could take advantage of double strike like some swords traditionally have.

Maybe I'm wrong. What are you playing Sword of Once and Future in? Are you using it as some broader plan, or are just flashing back cheap ramp and removal?

[DirkGently]

I think it gives body and mind a run for its money. Surveil 2 is significantly weaker than a draw imo. The flashback mode is pretty powerful if you can use it, however the sorts of decks that want swords don't necessarily have a ton of targets. Flashing back Rampant Growth is great, but Sword of Hearth and Home kinda does that for free.

Removal is strong, and easier to include in a voltron deck than proactive spells, but using them only after you've gotten through (can't take out a crucial blocker) and on your turn (can't remove reactively) substantially diminishes the effect.

And in either case, it's easy to run out of targets even with a decent number in the deck.

Overall I think it is good in the right spot, but that spot is very niche.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

@DirkGently Lately you've been rating and ranking everything. Do you think the forum could have a comprehensive review/ranking of all ten swords now that we've got them? Could be interesting!

[darrenhabib]

I feel like just like Sunforger you would build around it more if you include in a deck.

Goes nice with Gaea's Will, Living End, Resurgent Belief as a way to stack graveyard with surveil and then cast these for value.

Reanimate and Exhume for more graveyard stuff.

Steelshaper's Gift and Open the Armory can search for it, and then you can cast them again for more value.

Gamble for a 2cmc instant/sorcery so that it doesn't matter so much if discarded. Nice value train, no matter what.

[Sinis]

Reanimate and Exhume for more graveyard stuff.

This is an angle I kind of idly thought about. Surveil for pieces or targets, and then let it rip. There's a lot of pieces that Sword can reuse; Entomb, Unmarked Grave, Reanimate, Persist, Stitch Together, etc.

Looting spells can also be cheap; Cathartic Pyre, Faithless Looting, Cathartic Reunion, Careful Study. That kind of thing.

There's definitely a gameplan that Sword can help execute.

[Treamayne]

Surveil 2 should have been Fateseal 2. Lose the "flashback" and slot in some other blue effect (maybe even Scry 2).

Sorry, no plans to use this as-is.

[DirkGently]

@DirkGently Lately you've been rating and ranking everything. Do you think the forum could have a comprehensive review/ranking of all ten swords now that we've got them? Could be interesting!

I like rating commanders because you can reasonably assume that you're building the deck to maximize their effects. With cards in the 99, it's difficult to determine context. So I don't think I could really establish a firm rating for them.

Offhand, I'd probably order them roughly:

Sword of Feast and Famine - generally good
Sword of Fire and Ice - generally good
Sword of Forge and Frontier - generally good
Sword of Hearth and Home - ramp is good, flicker depends if you have good ETBs
Sword of Sinew and Steel - generally good
Sword of Light and Shadow - lifegain is meh, raise dead depends if you have good targets that are likely to be in your grave.
Sword of War and Peace - lifegain is meh, damage depends if you plan to win primarily via commander damage
Sword of Truth and Justice - counter is meh, proliferate depends what you have to proliferate, if anything
Sword of Body and Mind - getting a wolf is nice, mill depends if the mill is beneficial (you can exploit enemy graveyards or you're a mill deck) or detrimental (by default since many decks use their graves at least a bit)
Sword of Once and Future - surveil is meh, flashback depends on how many cheap instants/sorceries you have, and how effective they are when cast during combat damage.

I feel like just like Sunforger you would build around it more if you include in a deck.

I think sunforger is a poor comparison because sunforger becomes significantly stronger by changing just a couple cards, since it tutors for them. SoOaF you have to actually draw those cards in order to use them so the impact of each inclusion on the power level of the equipment is pretty minimal. In a 99 card singleton I can't really see the cross synergies justifying themselves off a single equipment, unless there were other cards that cared about the same things.

[Hermes_]

@DirkGently Lately you've been rating and ranking everything. Do you think the forum could have a comprehensive review/ranking of all ten swords now that we've got them? Could be interesting!

I like rating commanders because you can reasonably assume that you're building the deck to maximize their effects. With cards in the 99, it's difficult to determine context. So I don't think I could really establish a firm rating for them.

Offhand, I'd probably order them roughly:

Sword of Feast and Famine - generally good
Sword of Fire and Ice - generally good
Sword of Forge and Frontier - generally good
Sword of Hearth and Home - ramp is good, flicker depends if you have good ETBs
Sword of Sinew and Steel - generally good
Sword of Light and Shadow - lifegain is meh, raise dead depends if you have good targets that are likely to be in your grave.
Sword of War and Peace - lifegain is meh, damage depends if you plan to win primarily via commander damage
Sword of Truth and Justice - counter is meh, proliferate depends what you have to proliferate, if anything
Sword of Body and Mind - getting a wolf is nice, mill depends if the mill is beneficial (you can exploit enemy graveyards or you're a mill deck) or detrimental (by default since many decks use their graves at least a bit)
Sword of Once and Future - surveil is meh, flashback depends on how many cheap instants/sorceries you have, and how effective they are when cast during combat damage.

How dare you leave out Sword of Dungeons & Dragons lol

[bobthefunny]

Likely you want to include it in the decks which are already going for that strategy. Thinks like Toshiro Umezawa or the cantrip variants of Jori En, Ruin Diver or Rashmi, Eternities Crafter. Or the mega copy spell decks like Kalamax, the Stormsire or Zada, Hedron Grinder.

Pretty much if you've built a reactive or storm style deck, or anything that triggers off of spellcasts or spellcounts, this gets to be pretty high value. Especially if you can chain the triggers and spark something like Spellweaver Volute.

[Mookie]

I'm pretty low on Sword of Once and Future - it wants you to be playing a lot of cheap instants and sorceries, but the decks most likely to do that are spellslinger decks... which usually don't have many creatures to carry equipment. Maybe Vadrik, Astral Archmage or Feather, the Redeemed? I might consider it for Kess, Dissident Mage if not for its redundancy with her own ability - lots of cheap spells to cast in that deck, and it's interested in dumping more in the graveyard.

...I do think it is generally outclassed by other swords though, most directly by Sword of Fire and Ice (if you want to recast cantrips / removal) and Sword of Hearth and Home (if you want to recast ramp).

[PrimevalCommander]

I was thinking a controlly Tasigur, the Golden Fang could use this to some effect. Has self mill attributes to help with Delve. Has the proper colors for low cost ramp, loot, draw, removal that all could be hit by the sword. If someone had a low mana curve with 2mv or less of all these effects, then the sword could really pull it's weight. Otherwise, I echo the fact that many decks that have a high density of small instant/sorcery are not interested in an equipment with a damage trigger to reuse them. Its 5 mana to rebuy your first 2 mana spell, and spell slinger decks generally aren't going to care about the small boost in combat damage.

[onering]

I see the first ability as the main attraction and the second as gravy that is enabled by the first. The second ability makes running a lot of cheap card draw, especially cheap looting effects, better by making them freely reusable. The surveil is where the action is though, as both card selection and a graveyard enabler. It lets you dump the cheap draw spells into the yard and later use them once for free, really churning through your deck, and then you occasionally rebuy a remov spell or reanimation spell when you need to. I think it's very niche though. I'd definitely stick it in a surveil matters deck or a delve deck since it will power both of those mechanics, reanimator could probably make decent use of it as a bit of extra mill plus rebuying reanimate spells, but from there it's a bit meh.

[3drinks]

It's not hard people. You dump cards you don't want, leave the ones you do, and then flashback your Portent or whatever. Being prot. Dimir on top of that is the gravy smothering over the biscuit. To say nothing of flashing back spells with no mv, though yes that's cream of the crop stuff.

Idk what universe you're in that a super card advantage/selection engine is "meh", are we really getting so spoiled by rampant power creep that anything that doesn't actually say win the game isn't good enough? 🙄

[Mookie]

Idk what universe you're in that a super card advantage/selection engine is "meh", are we really getting so spoiled by rampant power creep that anything that doesn't actually say win the game isn't good enough? 🙄

Counterpoint: is Sword of Once and Future better than Mask of Memory? I run the latter in a few decks as a cheap draw engine, and I'd generally prefer the cheaper cast + equip cost and actual, consistent card advantage over what Sword offers. It also fits into more decks, since not all decks have a large number of cheap instants and sorceries.

[3drinks]

Idk what universe you're in that a super card advantage/selection engine is "meh", are we really getting so spoiled by rampant power creep that anything that doesn't actually say win the game isn't good enough? 🙄

Counterpoint: is Sword of Once and Future better than Mask of Memory? I run the latter in a few decks as a cheap draw engine, and I'd generally prefer the cheaper cast + equip cost and actual, consistent card advantage over what Sword offers. It also fits into more decks, since not all decks have a large number of cheap instants and sorceries.

I don't think this is a viable comparison, they do different things although mask plays nicely with SoOaF. I think if you want one, it's highly likely you want the other and that's a pretty good place to be. I also think it's a mistake that people skimp on cheap instants and sorceries (this stems from a hunt for bombs and etb value) but that's a discussion for another time.

[Sinis]

I don't think this is a viable comparison, they do different things although mask plays nicely with SoOaF. I think if you want one, it's highly likely you want the other and that's a pretty good place to be. I also think it's a mistake that people skimp on cheap instants and sorceries (this stems from a hunt for bombs and etb value) but that's a discussion for another time.

Mask of Memory is really cheap. I think that while most Swords are pretty good, their mana/equip costs aren't really considered in a vacuum. Mask of Memory might be a better card, unless you're getting a lot of mileage out of the free flashback part.

[TheGildedGoose]

I don't think this is a viable comparison, they do different things although mask plays nicely with SoOaF. I think if you want one, it's highly likely you want the other and that's a pretty good place to be. I also think it's a mistake that people skimp on cheap instants and sorceries (this stems from a hunt for bombs and etb value) but that's a discussion for another time.

Mask of Memory is really cheap. I think that while most Swords are pretty good, their mana/equip costs aren't really considered in a vacuum. Mask of Memory might be a better card, unless you're getting a lot of mileage out of the free flashback part.

Can confirm. I hadn't played with the card in years but when I sleeved it up in my casual Szarekh, the Silent King deck it did a lot of work.

[Sinis]

Can confirm. I hadn't played with the card in years but when I sleeved it up in my casual Szarekh, the Silent King deck it did a lot of work.

I've played it in a lot of decks, and it's really good, IMO. Very underrated.

[ISBPathfinder]

Personally I am not running it anywhere but I feel like there could be reason to use it in a topdeck matters kind of deck. I was thinking like Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign but I realize now that the triggers are backwards from where you would want in that your commander triggers on attack and the sword on damage but this is the type of deck I think that could use it as it can clear out targets you don't want on top for other triggers to matter. It would also play together with topdeck manipulation like Sensei's Divining Top allowing you to bury cards you don't want and remove through drawing cards you do want.

Not sure where specifically I would put it but I think it pairs well with some of the topdeck manipulation stuff from the stance of the Surveil. The trigger to spellcast unfortunately feels a bit narrow and I guess if you end up with a deck full of cantrips its fine I just think those decks suffer from needing draw engines and I think this one might not pack enough punch for its cost to set up.

There is value for it in any deck that just wants to be filling its graveyard as well. I just think that its expensive to use for self milling and the free value spellcast seems hard for most archetypes to reliably hit.

[Hawk]

Dirk's list matches my own pretty closely especially the top 5. I also like @Sinis point - I've found in modern EDH that spending a total of 5 mana to play and equip a sword is awkward and clunky outside of dedicated equipment decks unless the Sword specifically synergizes with your plan. So my list is more a tier list.

Tier S: Swords that are borderline format staples if your deck has creatures - Sword of Feast and Famine. Functionally doubling your mana scales well in this format, and the protections are great.

Tier A: Swords that are excellent and among the best equipment in your format - but that might not make the cut in your '99 if you just aren't looking to run more than 2-3 equipment cards. Staples in equipment.decs and worth a strong look in Voltron decks or decks that can really lean into some of their effects, but not staples.
Sword of Fire and Ice - The Shock isn't that great, but it's pure gravy alongside all the other value especially "draw a card" and is probably worth it for that effect compared to competition like Goggles of Night. We still only have a handful of equipment that straight up draw a card on combat damage.
Sword of Forge and Frontier - This is almost like casting Explore which is obviously great. Extra synergy for decks like Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald or Prosper, Tome-Bound that care about casting cards from exile.

Tier B: Swords that are clearly good, but face a bit more competition. These are hard to horn in to the tuned lists of today unless you have a deck that can really exploit both halves of the sword or are a dedicated equipment tribal deck.
Sword of Hearth and Home - This is just a "bigger" Sword of the Animist/Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus, but those cards superior mana efficiency and the fact you get the land whether you connect or not might edge this out unless you an also exploit the flicker half of the card. You really want both though; you can just cast Conjurer's Closet for the same total investment without worrying about cracking in in most flicker decks. In practice this has been a bit awkward to include, but equip tribal probably still likes it.
Sword of Light and Shadow - the lifegain is almost an insulting prize, so you have to really have a deck that loves the Raise Dead effect like Syrix, Carrier of the Flame, Quintorius, Field Historian, or Tormod, the Desecrator or a really heavy aristocrat theme. Still okay in equipment tribal since that deck has a lot of tension in running enough equip and enough creatures, and this helps you rebuy creatures.
Sword of Sinew and Steel - this is an incredible amount of value and card advantage when it works, but you're often going to be nailing mana rocks + nothing and generating outsized hate for a mid card. More or less only worthwhile in equip tribal decks.

Tier C: Swords that are falling off a bit in the format, and need a very specific decklist. These start falling off in equip tribal builds because even those decks can only afford 10-15 equipment spells and after the top 5-6 swords above likely want to start looking at stronger effects that synergize with their plan and cards with Living Weapon and For Mirrodin!.
Sword of Truth and Justice - Proliferate on damage is awesome, but you'll really need to invest in counters cards since otherwise just proliferating a single +1/+1 counter is awful. Gx counter decks have more efficient and powerful ways to proliferate or stack counters, so this probably shines in a deck that isn't green, has a significant creature count, and wants a ton of proliferate and even then can feel a bit win-more. That limits this to just a handful of fringe commanders. I'd also note these protections are amongst the worst in this format, since White and Blue are the colors best at removing threats without targeting, damage, or blocking.
Sword of War and Peace - I'd note this doesn't help Voltron decks, since damage from the Sword isn't commander damage. I almost wanted to put this in D tier since I think it's really underwhelming in EDH, but this card is still legitimately scary in a deck with a lot of double-strikers allowing even a small 2/2 double-striker to suddenly end games in a few swings, and can be a strong win-con for a hatebeary aggro deck. Also tends to be better early and mid to late.

Tier D: These swords are only worth running in EDH to say "I ran all 10 swords", as even in decks that synergize it's not what you want to do.
Sword of Once and Future - still salty this isn't "Truth and Lies". Surveil 2 is getting a bit underrated in this thread, but it's also not meaningfully better than what we get out of Mask of Memory and Zephyr Boots which I'm really high on. The really awkward part of this is that the decks where a free flashback would be good like Feather, the Redeemed and Talrand, Sky Summoner are the decks that are least likely to want to spend the time to set this up. This is also clearly terrible in equip.dec, as that deck has to load up on so many artifacts and creatures that it only has room for like 10-15 spells that aren't that.
Sword of Body and Mind - still the worst imo. A 2/2 body is really mediocre, and Sigiled Sword of Valeron is competition. I will note there are few equipment that make tokens on hit - it's basically those two plus Infested Fleshcutter - but that's not an effect most tokens decks want. And milling opponents might be actively harmful to your survival.

[3drinks]

I don't think this is a viable comparison, they do different things although mask plays nicely with SoOaF. I think if you want one, it's highly likely you want the other and that's a pretty good place to be. I also think it's a mistake that people skimp on cheap instants and sorceries (this stems from a hunt for bombs and etb value) but that's a discussion for another time.

Mask of Memory is really cheap. I think that while most Swords are pretty good, their mana/equip costs aren't really considered in a vacuum. Mask of Memory might be a better card, unless you're getting a lot of mileage out of the free flashback part.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying Mask isn't good, because it is. Man is it ever. I'm saying it's not a good comparison to SoOaF because the two are fulfilling different roles while synergizing with the other. Even on the same attack (SoOaF doesn't target).

[Hermes_]

Idk what universe you're in that a super card advantage/selection engine is "meh", are we really getting so spoiled by rampant power creep that anything that doesn't actually say win the game isn't good enough? 🙄

yes.

[Dunharrow]

I'm with 3drinks on this one, this card is great
I get that it doesn't slot into equipment.dec
If it wasn't pro-blue I would play in Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
Wouldn't this just be bonkers in Kess, Dissident Mage?

Never mind Ancestral Vision et al
never mind reanimate
What about just your night's whispers and preordains

I like this card a lot. I need to figure out if any of my 20+ decks can use this without any changes.

[3drinks]

For sure, it's not a voltron card. Not that voltron is alive anymore, not in this era.

[Sinis]

I also like @Sinis point - I've found in modern EDH that spending a total of 5 mana to play and equip a sword is awkward and clunky outside of dedicated equipment decks unless the Sword specifically synergizes with your plan. So my list is more a tier list.

Yeah, pretty much. I often find it hard to pay 5 for a sword when there are a few 5 mana spells that provide such ridiculous advantage that even a Sword of Protection and Value feels... lackluster? I have literally had in my hand a Sword of Fire and Ice and a Traverse the Outlands with a 5-power creature, and have basically noted that the Traverse is going to give me an near-insurmountable advantage in the coming turns, while the sword is gonna... draw a card or two? Kill some dorks? Maybe eat an answer?

I mean, I think the Swords are still good for the most part, especially if you curved into it with something like a Wood Elves, but, there are definitely moments where I've basically chosen to not cast a Sword because there are a few silly cards creeping into the 5 slot.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying Mask isn't good, because it is. Man is it ever. I'm saying it's not a good comparison to SoOaF because the two are fulfilling different roles while synergizing with the other. Even on the same attack (SoOaF doesn't target).

Yeah. I mean, I think if it's down to the last slot and I'm choosing between Mask and SoOaF, I'd probably pick Mask? Unless it was an unapologetic self-mill deck. I like that they do different things, but I wonder if we're overvaluing surveil 2, given how hard it is to leverage the flashback part.

I mean, I haven't seen Nightveil Sprite or Grim Flayer in many lists, and I feel like it's too early to tell for Deeproot Wayfinder. But... is the surveil 2 really worth it, unless you're also definitely leveraging the flashback ability?

I mean, I like the card. I like that it completes the cycle, and Dimir is my favourite colour combo. But, I find it a tough sell, even with your enthusiasm.