Indominus Rex

[ISBPathfinder]

I had a Rayami, First of the Fallen deck together in the last year and while I really enjoyed playing it, I got into a faster meta that it felt a little too slow in. Seeing Indominus it reminded me a lot of Rayami but with a little less setup complexity at the cost of its abilities being a little less permanent.

With my design I was really pushing for Hexproof + Indestructable first and foremost then I was just looking for whatever keyword soup I could get. Most of my keyword creatures are triple ability creatures if they aren't for those protections. I kept a few low cost deathtouchers outside of that as well just because I can use them as early defense in a pinch.

The idea is fairly simple for my first draft. Ramp into commander with as many abilities as possible and then just play a control game of disruption, interaction, and draw. I am seeing a lot of tempo control in my meta right now so being hard to interact with while having a lot of interaction might be nice.

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

COMMANDER (1)

1 Indominus Rex, Alpha

CREATURES (29)

1 Vampire of the Dire Moon

1 Baleful Strix

1 Bassara Tower Archer

1 Knight of Malice

1 Nullpriest of Oblivion

1 Wilson, Refined Grizzly

1 Bontu the Glorified

1 Kefnet the Mindful

1 Nighthawk Scavenger

1 Rhonas the Indomitable

1 Sporeweb Weaver

1 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath

1 Vampire Nighthawk

1 Venomthrope

1 Weathered Sentinels

1 Eradicator Valkyrie

1 Nightveil Predator

1 Questing Beast

1 Spark Double

1 Thassa, Deep-Dwelling

1 Elder Gargaroth

1 Karvanista, Loyal Lupari

1 Auton Soldier

1 Darksteel Sentinel

1 Scavenged Brawler

1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death

1 Sphinx of the Final Word

1 End-Raze Forerunners

1 Stonehoof Chieftain

ARTIFACT (4)

1 Jeweled Lotus

1 Pentad Prism

1 Decanter of Endless Water

1 Boompile

ENCHANTMENT (5)

1 Exploration

1 Survival of the Fittest

1 Sylvan Library

1 Pernicious Deed

1 Rhystic Study

INSTANT (10)

1 Pact of Negation

1 An Offer You Can't Refuse

1 Dark Ritual

1 Stubborn Denial

1 Swan Song

1 Assassin's Trophy

1 Cyclonic Rift

1 Growth Spiral

1 Once Upon a Time

1 Fierce Guardianship

SORCERY (16)

1 Ponder

1 Preordain

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Explore

1 Nature's Lore

1 Sylvan Scrying

1 Three Visits

1 Savor the Moment

1 Toxic Deluge

1 Culling Ritual

1 Damnation

1 Languish

1 Pir's Whim

1 Yahenni's Expertise

1 Quantum Misalignment

1 Karn's Temporal Sundering

PLANESWALKER

LAND (35)

1 Bayou

1 Bloodstained Mire

1 Breeding Pool

1 Cathedral of War

1 Cavern of Souls

1 Command Tower

1 Flooded Strand

4 Forest

1 Gemstone Caverns

3 Island

1 Marsh Flats

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Opal Palace

1 Overgrown Tomb

1 Polluted Delta

1 Scalding Tarn

3 Swamp

1 Tropical Island

1 Tyrite Sanctum

1 Underground Sea

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Verdant Catacombs

1 Volrath's Stronghold

1 Watery Grave

1 Windswept Heath

1 Wooded Foothills

1 Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

1 Zagoth Triome

Approximate Total Cost:

CONSIDERATIONS:
Sylvan Scrying / Expedition Map / Pir's Whim - Just wondering offhand how much I should value Cavern of Souls early as well as some of the means to buff my commander to 3 attack lethal if cavern isn't a concern.
Sylvan Library - With access to a lifelink commander its easier to turn this card into card draw.
Collector Ouphe - I went back and forth on hating on artifacts harder or not. In the end I didn't have much for creature tutors so I opted to run some of the non creature ones over ouphe.
Return of the Wildspeaker / Stinging Study - Just thinking about more draw. I don't have a ton of draw in my deck but my commander does kind of filter the creatures out as draw. The concern with that being if my commander isn't dying much they might get stuck in hand.
Massacre Girl - I had been contemplating if I could get more sweepers in and I saw this card which I have very few sources of Menace. I don't think I could always cast it because it can kill my commander but it might be something that could be cast instead if someone is going fast.
Veinwitch Coven - Menace option and using it as weird recursion could be a thing.

[Dunadain]

Mighty Emergence and other cards that allow you to put counters on Rex immediately provide some card draw while also making him hit harder.

[Hawk]

Mighty Emergence and other cards that allow you to put counters on Rex immediately provide some card draw while also making him hit harder.

Yeah, was thinking Master Biomancer and effects like that too. The Ozolith is an option to bank counters for later.

[yeti1069]

With a commander who wants both a handful of creatures and to discard 2-4 creatures, I'd think you'd want some pre-commander draw, and some graveyard to hand recursion (especially since most of the critters aren't things you want on the battlefield except as defense). At the very least, Phyrexian Reclamation can allow you to bypass commander tax in the event Rex dies.

Personally, I'd think draw that depends on your commander being out (ie., Rishkar's) is going to be less good here since you want a stocked grip before dropping Rex, and then it refills on its own.

[ISBPathfinder]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I assume that I probably don't know a lot of how I need to pivot this one just because its going to be quite a bit differently. I did get the cards ordered but it will still be a few weeks before I can play it given that it doesn't release until Friday and there is the question of how long it takes to get the cards so it might even be another two weeks before I get this assembled. I don't know if I have plenty of ability creatures or not enough as I don't have any testing with it yet so I expect that experience and gameplay will sort of dial me in on that front.

Mighty Emergence and other cards that allow you to put counters on Rex immediately provide some card draw while also making him hit harder.

Response below as its sort of the same boat of cards.

Yeah, was thinking Master Biomancer and effects like that too. The Ozolith is an option to bank counters for later.

These cards could be fun. The downside though is that they need to be set up before my commander and they do open me up to removal that my commander can normally dodge. I don't think they are irrelevant by any means and its cool that they could allow me to draw more cards with my commander coming in. I guess I am fighting with the idea of these cards against the idea of just running some utility ramp like Pir's Whim which could get me Opal Palace and put me in a similar place as if I were to have cast one of these in that ramping to Opal puts me one mana over commander which allows me to cast him with the one extra mana and get a single counter the first cast. It just feels like Pir's would have more versatility though too in that I could get Cavern of Souls when needed or if I draw it after my commander I could go get Cathedral of War instead.

I guess my point is that I could sort of fold some of this effect into my lands using some of the nonbasics into play sort of ramp instead of using a nonland to get spot removed or swept. Folding this utility into my landbase allows the option of nonbasic land ramp.

With a commander who wants both a handful of creatures and to discard 2-4 creatures, I'd think you'd want some pre-commander draw, and some graveyard to hand recursion (especially since most of the critters aren't things you want on the battlefield except as defense). At the very least, Phyrexian Reclamation can allow you to bypass commander tax in the event Rex dies.

Personally, I'd think draw that depends on your commander being out (ie., Rishkar's) is going to be less good here since you want a stocked grip before dropping Rex, and then it refills on its own.

Draw before commander - you could be right. If I don't have the creatures in my hand I am going to have a hard time casting my commander. That said, most of the creatures I don't plan on casting outside of emergency roadblocks. Maybe I could get away with Necropotence / Read the Bones. I was also sort of thinking about the idea of some of the legendary clones too because triggering my commander's ETB for more draw might be a big deal when my commander is already in play.

I guess I am a bit curious as to how many times you expect Rex to die. If things go right he will have indestructible and hexproof making it somewhat limited as to how he dies while in play. That isn't to say there is nothing that can catch him but it rules out a lot of normal deaths.

I do think I probably do need to look at my draw a bit more I think you are right there but I am not sure about the recovery of discarded cards offhand. I think with some of that I am just going to wait and see how the deck plays to see if it is a problem or not but I think you might be right on the draw.

[yeti1069]

I had a Sigarda enchantress voltron deck for a while with a handful of auras granting indestructible. Sigarda comes with built in hexproof AND a prohibition against being forced to sacrifice anything, and it still got removed with some regularity. You won't always have both hexproof and indestructible available, and you may not want to wait until you do in order to drop your big threat and draw a bunch of cards. Rex doesn't come with the anti-sac tech, so that's one avenue of removal. -X/-X is another, as is mass exile, with Farewell being the #1 culprit there, but not exclusively. There's also mass bounce, which can be a little awkward for Rex, as you've already pitched all of your creatures to the yard, and may not have restocked on that with the ETB draw.

Necropotence is obviously a stupidly powerful card, and even more so if you're getting life link consistently. That said, it exiling your discarded cards will preclude any recursion shenanigans.

[ISBPathfinder]

OOk, big change but it comes after getting to play two games. Both games went really well but it should be said that I did the games with something like an 80% accurate OG list. I made a few adjustments to it based on what I had on hand as some things didn't show or I forgot to order. In those changes I tried out a handful of clones and I think I want to keep testing that for now. In my two games I really felt like I wanted a little more cheap sweepers as well as some tempo ramp to commander. My creatures to discard also needs a little more consistency as a whole. Whenever I lacked hexproof it seemed like I would get spot removed so I am pushing that up a bit higher and its possible I need to go even higher.

DECK CHANGES:

• Ramunap Hydra → End-Raze Forerunners similar abilities but I think that haste is better than reach and I also have a lot of reach tacked onto random things so I think this gives me a better ability pickup.
• Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger → Darksteel Sentinel I lose a little from the stance that I included Ulamog for the chance I want to cast him but getting more abilities in discard seems good for now.
• Null Rod → Pentad Prism I found that this deck is a little heavier on synergy and deck consistency than I thought so some of the side hate packages need to go. I wanted some more tempo ramp and I realized that the Prism hits on curve well
• Thaumatic Compass → Boompile after playing the deck a little I could still have a problem with a big commander but the option to block with my commander plus the fact that I can have hexproof, indestructible, and vigilance (potentially) makes me think I don't have to worry about counter voltron as much. I wanted a few more cheap sweepers and I have always liked how Boompile works especially with a deck like this where it doesn't really matter too much when I get it to pop so much as it being cheap and ready quickly.
• Kenrith's Transformation → Sylvan Library adding library to the deck because it can use the lifegain of the commander to draw me cards. I am downplaying spot removal as I am pushing up my sweepers.
• Energy Flux → Exploration moving away from some hate package and towards some tempo ramp.
• Chain of Vapor → Yahenni's Expertise moving away from more spot removal and towards more sweepers.
• Pongify → Dark Ritual moving away from spot removal and adding some more tempo for commander. I like that Dark Ritual can play my commander on T3 if I can get access to GGB by then.
• Rapid Hybridization → Quantum Misalignment cutting my spot removal and I like the clones for more draw and going wider attackers.
• Vampiric Tutor → Once Upon a Time My only real issue with Vamp Tutor is I felt like I was tutoring for utility creatures or lands and I felt like I could move to a card that wasn't card disadvantage for the same job for now. I have a lot of redundancy of what my deck does so outside of tutoring for a wrath or counterspell I want to see if I need or miss vamp tutor.
• Mana Drain → Pact of Negation Mana Drain doesn't ramp to my commander well due to it being colorless so I am just going to push this counter off to an emergency use counterspell on demand.
• Filter Out → Languish I drew Filter Out, and it wasn't irrelevant but I really needed more creature sweepers for this deck if I am being honest. I didn't end up casting it but I did regret it not being an option to interact with creatures.
• Hunter's Insight → Spark Double I think the draw could go a few ways but clones allow me to bulk up on my utility creature count and not choke on them after I play my commander and I think that is appealing. Spark Double also draws an extra card due to the +1/+1 counter on it when using it on my commander.
• Deadly Rollick → Thassa, Deep-Dwelling cutting some spot removal and I felt like I wanted to test out Thassa. If I don't end up casting her at all I probably will want to pivot this spot to be a Darksteel Gargoyle just for the flying keyword pickup but for now I thought that Thassa wasn't an irrelevant card to cast to flicker my commander if I draw too many utility creatures and lack draw.
• Hatred → Sphinx of the Final Word Hatred can work and if I want to run some tutors for it I might still consider it but right now I want to iron out the basic deck construction and have some more consistency there first. I felt like hexproof was the most important keyword so this is just me expanding the count there.
• Cultivate → Decanter of Endless Water I looked at Cultivate and Kodama's and they aren't that impressive given their speed of play and the fact that I have card advantage in my commander. Adding Decanter because I did see a lot of games I had to discard down to 7 cards after my commander came in. I like that Decanter gives colored mana too which seems like a plus to me.
• Kodama's Reach → Karn's Temporal Sundering I added enough tempo ramp to the deck I am going to push in an extra turn aimed for after my commander to push for damage. I considered a few others like the 5 mana turns and the other options but I felt like the bounce effect was useful. It is possible that I should also entertain the idea of Temporal Trespass due to the discarded creatures mostly not being reused again.
• Find // Finality → Toxic Deluge just cost lowering my sweeper here. I really didn't plan to play Find but sometimes Finality is too slow even though its cool I want some cheaper rather than something with more utility.
• Gaze of Granite → Culling Ritual Gaze is fun but its slow as hell. Culling slows my opponents and ramps me which I am fine with.
• Scale the Heights → Pir's Whim it pushes it from ramp to utility but I can have problems if someone just sits with counter magic up on my commander so tutoring to get past that or getting Opal Palace into commander with counters are both fine. I also think that Pir's and forcing that negative tempo on opponents is fine.
• Rishkar's Expertise → Auton Soldier just moving some of the draw around to commander clones. I think the Myriad function is really funny especially if I can get hexproof + indestructible on the real clone.
• 1 Island → Sylvan Scrying lowering my land count a little more but opening me up to some utility lands as my fear of counter magic on my commander is real.
• Strip Mine → Volrath's Stronghold I don't think I need a strip mine utility much but recovering needed utility for discard a second time can come up.
• Myriad Landscape → Gemstone Caverns just moving my land ramp around a bit. I think Landscape is fine if I draw no other ramp but it really sucks paired with other ramp as it throws off its ramp to commander play.

Well, that is a TON of changes. The clones encouraged me to increase my creature count so I can hit consistency of abilities better and the clones can get me an option to pitch additional draws. I wanted to tempo to my commander faster and have more sweepers with noncreature counters rather than focusing as much on spot removing creatures. We will see how all of this plays out but the deck was doing really good in the first two games. I did lose one game but it was to somewhat of a god hand where UB ninjas did like 25 direct damage by turn 4 and I had to wrath and cast my commander without lifelink. Even with all this if I had gotten a lifelink pickup it would have changed the game up big as I was like one swing from killing him in return when I died.

EDIT: I also am weighing if I want Triplicate Titan over something like Elder Gargaroth or Weathered Sentinels. Picking up flying over reach is very useful on my commander but if I already have flying then picking up reach can increase my cards drawn so there is some question of how many of each ability I have access to with a consideration like this. I would rather have flying than reach but if I can have both that is good too. Triplicate Titan is also really expensive from a stance of casting it so if I lean into recursion it maybe makes more sense but right now its debating ability counts. I would rather fly than have reach but spreading myself out more can result in more cards drawn.

[Artaud]

Since you discard a lot of creatures for Commander's ability then why not use cheap reanimation to bring them back? Even Living Death could be an option if Rex gets killed somehow. You could use better (more-costed) creatures as discard fodder then.

[ISBPathfinder]

Since you discard a lot of creatures for Commander's ability then why not use cheap reanimation to bring them back? Even Living Death could be an option if Rex gets killed somehow. You could use better (more-costed) creatures as discard fodder then.

The problem is that most of the cards I am discarding aren't what I would consider to be all that valuable in play. Its possible I could run Ulamog 2.0 and try to rez him but I cut him in favor of an indestructible creature with a second ability beyond indestructible because I valued more abilities on my commander over trying to set up a rez. By the time I can get my commander into play and discard the mostly vanilla creatures the incentive to get those vanilla creatures back to play isn't as high for me.

Living Death - I considered it a few times and it could still work but its awkward in that it can kill a fully kitted commander because its a sac effect. This means I would be including it in the case that I assume someone kills my commander without bounce / exile and then I rely on Living Death and assume no counterspells. The meta I am in right now that is just asking kind of a lot at the moment as I just have a heavy UW meta right now. If my commander went to my graveyard and I left them there and then ate a counterspell on a reanimate it would be sort of a worst case scenario so I am not really willing to do that and its got too many constraints on when I can play it for me to really want to play it after my commander gets answered to hand / command zone for just the other guys. I also think that getting hexproof and indestructible are big reasons not to rely on rez effects for my commander because they mean its a lot less likely that my commander dies as its really down to sacrifice and -/- effects that could still get them in a way that they go to the graveyard .

I did consider doing some creatures for the purpose of setting up something else or being strictly discarded such as Genesis, Haakon, Stromgald Scourge (with a Nameless Inversion plan), or even something like Sheoldred, Whispering One in a rez shell. In the end my issue with all of these plans is just that they don't really reward me for discarding them and are usually sort of mana intensive or setup intensive to have a payoff. Offhand the best interaction I have come up with the discarding creaturs is that I can possibly use them to escape Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath but I do also eyeball the delve mechanic every now and then I just haven't been all that sold on any of them since my commander and clones do a good job of giving me draw so far.

[Artaud]

Since you discard a lot of creatures for Commander's ability then why not use cheap reanimation to bring them back? Even Living Death could be an option if Rex gets killed somehow. You could use better (more-costed) creatures as discard fodder then.

The problem is that most of the cards I am discarding aren't what I would consider to be all that valuable in play. [...] By the time I can get my commander into play and discard the mostly vanilla creatures the incentive to get those vanilla creatures back to play isn't as high for me.

If so then you could consider both steel giants as they shuffle themselves to be drawn again in case you had to replay Rex. You could also use more support creatures like Beastcaller Savant instead of some of the useless cheap fodder even if you lose some abilities in a process. Let's face it - you only need indestructible and hexproof to protect your Commander and trample/flying + haste to make him a threat. Keep in mind that it's "only" 6/6 creature so it won't be a biggest one on table for long.

As for protection spells a Ripples of Potential seem like perfect for protecting Rex against sacrifice/mass bounce/mass exile effects.

[yeti1069]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I assume that I probably don't know a lot of how I need to pivot this one just because its going to be quite a bit differently. I did get the cards ordered but it will still be a few weeks before I can play it given that it doesn't release until Friday and there is the question of how long it takes to get the cards so it might even be another two weeks before I get this assembled. I don't know if I have plenty of ability creatures or not enough as I don't have any testing with it yet so I expect that experience and gameplay will sort of dial me in on that front.

Mighty Emergence and other cards that allow you to put counters on Rex immediately provide some card draw while also making him hit harder.

Response below as its sort of the same boat of cards.

Yeah, was thinking Master Biomancer and effects like that too. The Ozolith is an option to bank counters for later.

These cards could be fun. The downside though is that they need to be set up before my commander and they do open me up to removal that my commander can normally dodge. I don't think they are irrelevant by any means and its cool that they could allow me to draw more cards with my commander coming in. I guess I am fighting with the idea of these cards against the idea of just running some utility ramp like Pir's Whim which could get me Opal Palace and put me in a similar place as if I were to have cast one of these in that ramping to Opal puts me one mana over commander which allows me to cast him with the one extra mana and get a single counter the first cast. It just feels like Pir's would have more versatility though too in that I could get Cavern of Souls when needed or if I draw it after my commander I could go get Cathedral of War instead.

I guess my point is that I could sort of fold some of this effect into my lands using some of the nonbasics into play sort of ramp instead of using a nonland to get spot removed or swept. Folding this utility into my landbase allows the option of nonbasic land ramp.

With a commander who wants both a handful of creatures and to discard 2-4 creatures, I'd think you'd want some pre-commander draw, and some graveyard to hand recursion (especially since most of the critters aren't things you want on the battlefield except as defense). At the very least, Phyrexian Reclamation can allow you to bypass commander tax in the event Rex dies.

Personally, I'd think draw that depends on your commander being out (ie., Rishkar's) is going to be less good here since you want a stocked grip before dropping Rex, and then it refills on its own.

Draw before commander - you could be right. If I don't have the creatures in my hand I am going to have a hard time casting my commander. That said, most of the creatures I don't plan on casting outside of emergency roadblocks. Maybe I could get away with Necropotence / Read the Bones. I was also sort of thinking about the idea of some of the legendary clones too because triggering my commander's ETB for more draw might be a big deal when my commander is already in play.

I guess I am a bit curious as to how many times you expect Rex to die. If things go right he will have indestructible and hexproof making it somewhat limited as to how he dies while in play. That isn't to say there is nothing that can catch him but it rules out a lot of normal deaths.

I do think I probably do need to look at my draw a bit more I think you are right there but I am not sure about the recovery of discarded cards offhand. I think with some of that I am just going to wait and see how the deck plays to see if it is a problem or not but I think you might be right on the draw.

I think you're grossly undervaluing the creatures you're pitching--among the ones in your list are some moderate- to high-value bodies that other decks would run for themselves, and all you're doing with them is dumping them in the bin, then forgetting about them. At the floor, some reanimation would provide you with more defense for when you either don't get vigilance on Rex, or are facing a wide board you can't properly defend against with just one scary creature. The ceiling, can be putting yourself in a position where you're threatening two players at once, rather than one, by having both your commander and a small army of threatening creatures. There's also the option of reanimating things like End-Raze Forerunners for an overrun effect, which will turn even the most mediocre of the fodder into threats. You don't need to lean heavily into this, but I think having 1 or 2 big reanimation spells would be worthwhile.

[ISBPathfinder]

Since you discard a lot of creatures for Commander's ability then why not use cheap reanimation to bring them back? Even Living Death could be an option if Rex gets killed somehow. You could use better (more-costed) creatures as discard fodder then.

The problem is that most of the cards I am discarding aren't what I would consider to be all that valuable in play. [...] By the time I can get my commander into play and discard the mostly vanilla creatures the incentive to get those vanilla creatures back to play isn't as high for me.

If so then you could consider both steel giants as they shuffle themselves to be drawn again in case you had to replay Rex. You could also use more support creatures like Beastcaller Savant instead of some of the useless cheap fodder even if you lose some abilities in a process. Let's face it - you only need indestructible and hexproof to protect your Commander and trample/flying + haste to make him a threat. Keep in mind that it's "only" 6/6 creature so it won't be a biggest one on table for long.

As for protection spells a Ripples of Potential seem like perfect for protecting Rex against sacrifice/mass bounce/mass exile effects.

I had originally considered utilizing Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre for his shuffle back in clause as well as giving me some minor protection against mill decks. I don't really think that shuffling back in is that big of a concern for me. It does increase hit rate in my deck especially as I play out my lands but its just not a huge long term concern for me as I am a lot more concerned about having all the abilities the first time. If you get answered a lot it might be but even then you need to keep drawing a bunch and down the road it might matter but I think shuffle in math is still relatively small percentage long term equation that for now I am favoring additional abilities over the shuffle in element. It is possible though that one of the Ulamogs might still be considered on the merit of being able to cast them being that this is sort of a ramp deck for alt use removal which is where I was at when I first included an Ulamog in my deck. I think in terms of combat prowess I tend to favor in this order: Hexproof, Flying, Vigilance, Indestructible, Lifelink, Trample, Deathtouch, everything else. There is also a world in which First Strike + Deathtouch + Trample give you some good combination of things as well assuming you lack indestructible or flying. I also think that the power of Indestructible varies a lot based on what your meta runs for removal which the same can be said on hextouch but I was in several games where my opponents told me they had 2+ spot removals for me assuming I didn't have hextouch so its fairly up there for me right now.

Ripples of Potential yea you could also use some of black's recursion stuff too such as Malakir Rebirth. In the end I went with more of a counterspell solution because I felt they were more all around solutions and flexible to be used in a few other ways. Its true that some of the other answers can leave you with a commander in play while others might sweep the board but I just prefer a little more all around effect of counter magic than specializing in just defense when my commander has a lot of defense already and recasting them still results in me probably drawing cards.

I think you're grossly undervaluing the creatures you're pitching--among the ones in your list are some moderate- to high-value bodies that other decks would run for themselves, and all you're doing with them is dumping them in the bin, then forgetting about them. At the floor, some reanimation would provide you with more defense for when you either don't get vigilance on Rex, or are facing a wide board you can't properly defend against with just one scary creature. The ceiling, can be putting yourself in a position where you're threatening two players at once, rather than one, by having both your commander and a small army of threatening creatures. There's also the option of reanimating things like End-Raze Forerunners for an overrun effect, which will turn even the most mediocre of the fodder into threats. You don't need to lean heavily into this, but I think having 1 or 2 big reanimation spells would be worthwhile.

Some of the problem is that it takes up some room in my list and in my mind there are better proactive things to be doing. Recursion could help me if my commander dies but I am also ramping to my commander which can help me recast them. If you have your commander in play already and then you are considering recurring something you discarded I would argue that you could just as easily play a non legendary clone to have a copy of your commander (I am aware you need to discard and get new counters as they don't copy over) but that also turns into additional card draw and another hard to target hard to remove threat in play. The clones take up the same space as would the reanimates for the most part as I can't find another recursion other than Nullpriest of Oblivion that fits the theme of my deck.

Its also worth mentioning of the two games I played I did end up casting a bunch of my creatures in the second game I just wasn't able to utilize a single one of them as I got triple spot removed on literally everything that lacked hexproof and I died to that. I might have even lived as I tried spot removing one of his two attackers but he also had a Misdirection for my spot removal. It was an intense game and people freaking love their spot removal where I am playing. This was turn 6 that I died on by the way. I had to tutor for and play Culling Ritual killing all but his ninja commander on turn 4 and casting my commander. I had him like a turn off of lethal when I died as I lacked lifelink but he had me at like 14 life on turn 4 through some god topdecks.

[RowanKeltizar]

I'll be honest, I'm an edhRec guy... not that I copy and paste decks, but I do look there to get tips on cards I may have missed since there are so many new cards these days.

What about:

Shadow of the Grave - this stands in for all similar cards like Oversold Cemetery that return creatures back to hand. Maybe running out of creatures to discard is a non issue?

Personally, I do feel The Ozolith is a near autoinlcude if only because it is soooo cheap to cast and will bank all your keyword counters. I also think the green ozolith Ozolith, the Shattered Spire is very very strong. I know you said you don't like early setup, but this is a pretty efficient way to pump up your commanders power.

I count 4 counterspells and 2 spot removals. To my mind, this is a bit light for a voltron strategy. What happens if you run into a stax effect like Ensnaring Bridge or a sac effect like Soul Shatter?

[ISBPathfinder]

I'll be honest, I'm an edhRec guy... not that I copy and paste decks, but I do look there to get tips on cards I may have missed since there are so many new cards these days.

What about:

Shadow of the Grave - this stands in for all similar cards like Oversold Cemetery that return creatures back to hand. Maybe running out of creatures to discard is a non issue?

Personally, I do feel The Ozolith is a near autoinlcude if only because it is soooo cheap to cast and will bank all your keyword counters. I also think the green ozolith Ozolith, the Shattered Spire is very very strong. I know you said you don't like early setup, but this is a pretty efficient way to pump up your commanders power.

I count 4 counterspells and 2 spot removals. To my mind, this is a bit light for a voltron strategy. What happens if you run into a stax effect like Ensnaring Bridge or a sac effect like Soul Shatter?

Shadow of the Grave - It adds 2 mana to the cost of the commander so its bare minimum a second + casting of the commander sort of a spell. Outside of that my big issue is that I generally draw something like 1.5-2 cards per card I discarded. There are some that I draw 3 for but there is also often some overlap. I guess what I am saying is that it would be really hard to find value in this because I already often have to discard down at the end of the turn I cast my commander so I would probably need to lean even harder into no max handsize for it to work.

So far I have also leaned into more of the consistency of having creatures with the abilities rather than recovering the ones I discarded. The fact that I draw a bunch of cards when my commander comes down offsets and then some the cost of the discard. I just haven't seen a lot of incentive to run creature recursion so far because its something that doesn't have a use until after my commander is cast the first time and its like setup for the 2nd+ commander cast.

The Ozolith It might work but again we are talking 2nd+ cast of commanders with a sticky commander who might have the same abilities already set up based on what you have in hand. Its also unfortunate in that hexproof / indestructible have gaps to get them where opponents are incentivized to remove the commander and or Ozolith itself before you can get them back.

Ozolith, the Shattered Spire are you thinking just like.... putting slow 2 counters on the commander per turn? I feel like I would rather push another extra turn instead.

My commander does die, I have had to cast them for like 11 mana before and honestly, its not really that big of a deal. I ramp to my commander and rely on deck consistancy and a commander with card advantage built in on an ETB. Its really not that big of a deal when it dies especially if I am picking up plenty of hexproof as it forces a lot of opponents to nuke the whole board. My meta is heavy on draw and interaction which makes something like Ensnaring Bridge not really something I would ever run in this meta because I don't believe it would really work against what I encounter. It is worth mentioning my land base is off a bit as I do have a Boseiju, Who Endures in the paper list and a few ways to tutor it. I believe I even added Tolaria West recently as another way to pick up early Cavern of Souls or late get Pact of Negation or Boseiju, Who Endures. I should update some of that and possibly even add Otawara, Soaring City to my list.

[yeti1069]

Think Rowan was referring to an opposing Ensnaring Bridge preventing you from attacking.

[ISBPathfinder]

Think Rowan was referring to an opposing Ensnaring Bridge preventing you from attacking.

Yea I am aware, I was more pointing out that my meta is very strong against passive defenses via heavy spot interaction and card draw. I am not saying its something I would never encounter but the meta I am in is heavy in tempo disruption and player eliminations or wincons that defenses like this don't stop. I have had to move a lot of my own defenses to being instant speed responses myself especially towards the end of counter magic because what I had in play stops being in play.

In general I also think that this sort of effect isn't that popular in general. I have played it and things like Moat before but very very rarely seen them played against me. I would say it depends on the meta a little but at this point I am on my.... 5th meta and across all of those and 10+ years of playing commander I haven't seen a heavy abundance of that sort of thing. So for the most part its just not a big concern yet and if it becomes so I can respond then.

[yeti1069]

Think Rowan was referring to an opposing Ensnaring Bridge preventing you from attacking.

Yea I am aware, I was more pointing out that my meta is very strong against passive defenses via heavy spot interaction and card draw. I am not saying its something I would never encounter but the meta I am in is heavy in tempo disruption and player eliminations or wincons that defenses like this don't stop. I have had to move a lot of my own defenses to being instant speed responses myself especially towards the end of counter magic because what I had in play stops being in play.

In general I also think that this sort of effect isn't that popular in general. I have played it and things like Moat before but very very rarely seen them played against me. I would say it depends on the meta a little but at this point I am on my.... 5th meta and across all of those and 10+ years of playing commander I haven't seen a heavy abundance of that sort of thing. So for the most part its just not a big concern yet and if it becomes so I can respond then.

Yeah, I think that's fair. Moat I think I've seen once, maybe twice, but it being so expensive is a big part of that, I suspect. Bridge I've played and have seen across the table a small number of times, but not often. If I ever put my Kess discard deck back together Ensnaring Bridge will likely have a slot.

[MrBloo]

So I was brewing Indominus Rex for a while before another project took over, but I found that in a keyword soup commander like this one (which I think is the best of keyword soup commander we've seen so far), you'd do better if you spend more slots trying to squeeze every drop of value out of the cards you pitch so that you are more willing to pitch as many as you can to him (to draw more cards since each additional counter, redundant or otherwise, still draws you an additional card) to draw into more gas while now having a huge threat. This means you may want to look into something that benefits from you discarding cards (Archfiend of Ifnir is a hell of a card to keep opponents' board under control while at the same time opening the way to their faces) or running more recursion effects to simply double dip on those cards. Reanimate, Dance of the Dead, Necromancy, Animate Dead, Living Death, Rise of the Dark Realms come to mind. The latter also usable as a wincon in itself with the right combination of creatures in the yard. These reanimation spells also means that, if your commander tax goes up too high, you can simply just send him/her to the graveyard upon death to reanimate them later (and discarding and drawing cards all over again) at a much cheaper cost. It seems just too good of a tool to not have in this kind of deck where you're constantly pitching creatures into the graveyard. Turn that zone into your second hand!

Unspeakable Symbol is another key card to run since it allows you to turn life into cards at instant speed,

Another thing, haste is a very powerful keyword in this setup and I feel you aren't running enough of them. It's relatively slim pickings in Sultai but some of the great options I am seeing omitted like Gurmag Swiftwing, Mirri the Cursed, Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider, Vengeful Reaper, etc.

It's no doubt a very interesting and potentially very powerful commander. I'd love to actually build it some day.

[LordTotoro]

I'm just curious...what do you do to help the table keep track of Indominus' abilities? Cause I wonder if there are cool counters on Etsy or something that can help you keep track!

[ISBPathfinder]

I'm just curious...what do you do to help the table keep track of Indominus' abilities? Cause I wonder if there are cool counters on Etsy or something that can help you keep track!

I personally like the punch card tokens. There are a few different sheets you can find but most of the abilities exist between them. I think between the two punch cards the only ability not represented on them is haste but beyond the turn it mostly doesn't matter. Not to endorse any particular vendor but I found them on cardkingdom. I don't know if they go by any other names but you can find them by looking up the special token rarity items of commander 2020 and Ikorria Lair of Behemoths sets. I personally suggest getting a few copies of each if you go this route assuming you do any cloning but beyond that its also tricky as a lot of times there are two abilities front and back to the tokens and sometimes you need both at the same time.

https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/command ... punch-card
https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/ikoria- ... punch-card

I haven't updated this deck in some time. Its still going strong and I don't pull it out very often as I have had complaints that it leans a bit on the strong side given how fast I can get it out, how hard it is to interact with, and how it draws me cards. I felt like I was being quite fair to people by not putting extra turns in it but its still very hard to interact with.

[yeti1069]

I'm just curious...what do you do to help the table keep track of Indominus' abilities? Cause I wonder if there are cool counters on Etsy or something that can help you keep track!

I have a different deck that can get several types of counters and use a dry erase card l. I write out the types of counters before hand on a few cards, down the left side as a list. Then I can either mark which counters I have, and how many with the marker, or by putting a die next to each line.

[darrenhabib]

I can see the appeal of getting one extra power on Indominus Rex (7x3=21).
You've got some lands by design that do this with Cathedral of War, Opal Palace, Tyrite Sanctum.
Llanowar Reborn, Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers, Vastwood Thicket are other options.

Valentin, Dean of the Vein has a couple of abilities and Lisette, Dean of the Root does give you an option to put +1/+1 counters in combination with lifelink.
Saiba Cryptomancer has the important hexproof and can give +1/+1.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir has a couple of abilities and ongoing +1/+1 to all your creatures.
Sluiceway Scorpion has deathtouch and you can discard to scavenge from your graveyard.
Railway Brawler can be plot the turn before Indominus (natural curve as well with Rex at 5 mana) and would make him a 12/12. Has a couple of abilities as well.
Vorinclex has a couple of abilities. 8 mana is obviously end game type stuff, but The Grand Evolution does all sorts of things you want.

[pokken]

I can't help but wonder if a few mana dorks with keywords wouldn't be worth considering;

Sylvan Caryatid Birds of Paradise Gilded Goose Beastcaller Savant Maraleaf Pixie Ornithopter of Paradise etc. could be a pretty useful set.

[ISBPathfinder]

I'm just curious...what do you do to help the table keep track of Indominus' abilities? Cause I wonder if there are cool counters on Etsy or something that can help you keep track!

I have a different deck that can get several types of counters and use a dry erase card l. I write out the types of counters before hand on a few cards, down the left side as a list. Then I can either mark which counters I have, and how many with the marker, or by putting a die next to each line.

I have seen the dry erase thing done online a few times but it always felt a little clunky to me to bring that stuff with but I suppose its the most flexible. I have always struggled to have all 10,000 types of tokens that exist these days but rather than worry about it I tend to just flip tokens face down under the cards that made them and its usually somewhat understandable. Dry erase is probably the most flexible to fill all these things but its more stuff to have on hand.

I can see the appeal of getting one extra power on Indominus Rex (7x3=21).
You've got some lands by design that do this with Cathedral of War, Opal Palace, Tyrite Sanctum.
Llanowar Reborn, Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers, Vastwood Thicket are other options.

Valentin, Dean of the Vein has a couple of abilities and Lisette, Dean of the Root does give you an option to put +1/+1 counters in combination with lifelink.
Saiba Cryptomancer has the important hexproof and can give +1/+1.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir has a couple of abilities and ongoing +1/+1 to all your creatures.
Sluiceway Scorpion has deathtouch and you can discard to scavenge from your graveyard.
Railway Brawler can be plot the turn before Indominus (natural curve as well with Rex at 5 mana) and would make him a 12/12. Has a couple of abilities as well.
Vorinclex has a couple of abilities. 8 mana is obviously end game type stuff, but The Grand Evolution does all sorts of things you want.

Yea you aren't wrong that increasing my power is important for commander clock. I was trying to keep it permanent light so I was avoiding any sort of aura / equipment which leads me mostly with +/+ counter options left as pump. @MrBloo mentioned the idea of Unspeakable Symbol a while back which I think is a very reasonable idea. If we really care about putting counters on and pumping a little there are more ways I was just trying to keep it from more things that would die to my own sweepers which for me started with land based pumps but I guess I could live with a few things tossing out counters.

When it came to creatures for me I mostly went with the ones that did multiple counters rather than ones I thought were remotely playable. Railway Brawler for instance is a reasonable card but it opens me up a little more to someone holding up removal. I don't think discarding it for those two abilities is all that relevant as I think both of those abilities are rather low on my list of things to seek after. I could just see some sort of one shot sorcery that stacks +/+ counters on instead.

There isn't to say you couldn't run any number of creatures that are sort of playable but I went for number of keywords and specific keywords being in priority something along the lines of: Hexproof, Indestructible, Vigilant, Flying, Lifelink. Those would be in my mind the high value abilities. From there I guess I would put like Trample, Menace, Deathtouch, Haste, Reach, First Strike for the rest (to my knowledge you still can't get double strike anywhere). I don't value casting most of the ability granting creatures in the deck so much as I reserve them for discards. There has been a few pinch moments where I need additional blockers vs go wide decks or edicts but in large I don't cast those creatures.

I can't help but wonder if a few mana dorks with keywords wouldn't be worth considering;

Sylvan Caryatid Birds of Paradise Gilded Goose Beastcaller Savant Maraleaf Pixie Ornithopter of Paradise etc. could be a pretty useful set.

You could but I run a lot of sweepers. I wanted to be a sweeper heavy deck which pushed me more towards burst mana like Dark Ritual rather than a mana dork. I wanted a permanent light targeting difficult concept. I run like 8 wraths in my list with a good bit of draw and I like to drop a few wraths while punching people in the mouth.