Vadrok - All In GIGA CHAD

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago


So, this idea I really wanted to do a sort of memey all in Final Fortune / Last Chance / Warrior's Oath deck. With Warrior's Oath getting its reprint finally it dropped this concept into fairly attainable price range. Chance for Glory and all of the white can't loose the game effects put me into boros for sure but I liked blue as a pickup color for some draw and Pact of Negation. I opted to go for Vadrok, Apex of Thunder to reuse the extra turns and recur some of the chads.

The idea is mostly to tutor Gideon of the Trials and get his emblem and use that with all the chads to not die to my own extra turns. The fact that Vadrok, Apex of Thunder can also recur two of the chads including the one I need to tutor first helps a lot as well. I am well aware of how bad of an idea this really is but I love the idea of leaning so hard into an effect that someone prepared for it might cause me to loose completely lol. It just feels like its peak playing red if you ask me. I could possibly use more protection to not die out of nowhere but I think its kind of fun to just see how things go for now. Its possible after loosing games this way I might change it or I might just embrace it as the fun of this concept.


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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

With 10 islands, how often Mystic Sanctuary is on when you need it in your experience?

Since you are spellslingin Young Pyromancer and Saheeli, Sublime Artificer always perform well and Storm-Kiln Artist is my favorite payoff nowadays.

Niv-Mizzet, Parun seems haaard to cast here. Have you considered Hullbreaker Horror as a late game payoff? You get to hold him to play at instant speed, turns your other instants into bounce/protection. Im a fan!

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

duducrash wrote:
1 year ago
With 10 islands, how often Mystic Sanctuary is on when you need it in your experience?

Since you are spellslingin Young Pyromancer and Saheeli, Sublime Artificer always perform well and Storm-Kiln Artist is my favorite payoff nowadays.

Niv-Mizzet, Parun seems haaard to cast here. Have you considered Hullbreaker Horror as a late game payoff? You get to hold him to play at instant speed, turns your other instants into bounce/protection. Im a fan!
Mystic Sanctuary - Offhand I am not sure but I do also have 9 fetchlands and Deep Gnome Terramancer (who can get dual islands). The downside is primarily if you actually draw it early but even that downside is really only that you get an ETB tapped land that doesn't have an upside. Later in the game it can be fetched to reload spells. I think its worth trying and I can always adjust if its a problem.

Young Pyromancer / Saheeli, Sublime Artificer my issue with these two is mostly that they seem worse in that they aren't tokens with size or flying. They are cheap and its possible that my commander being able to recur Saheeli is good enough but I am not really sold on it personally. I just think their tokens are a little more lacking. I might still consider Shark Typhoon which I lack currently but I just have a hard time with the small chaff tokens on the ground without a plan to generate value from them entering or running anthems. I have had better experience with flying tokens all around from an attack and defense perspective assuming I don't add additional buffs to the tokens themselves.

Storm-Kiln Artist - Maybe, I don't know it just feels a little slow to me. I also have sort of a bad taste when it comes to treasure these days so I feel like I try to avoid treasure tactics just because it feels like they have been everywhere lately. I had actually been contemplating Stony Silence / Null Rod tactics in this list when I got started but I felt like Sunforger fit the theme well enough that I opted not to pursue it. Four and Five mana enablers that take a while to pay for themselves just feel really odd to me. Some of my hesitation with a card like this is also that I have been considering running some cards like Pyromancer's Goggles, Double Vision, and Primal Amulet which I think you could argue compete to some degree for a similar slot spellcast payoff. Due to the nature of having extra turns as one of my big payoff I think its worth considering what direction I want to go when making better some of my spellcasting. The problem with all of these effects in my mind though is that they are hard to recur and too much density of them can be a problem. Beyond that I also need non human creatures to mutate my commander onto on occasion. I also think that my overall spell count isn't so super high that I think I am going to nicely chain from spell to spell repeatedly which might also mean that Smothering Tithe might compete as well. Its tough to say offhand I think there are issues with how many directions I have with this deck as my counts and overall draw don't seem amazing. But with extra turns there is also value in things that generate a trigger per turn as well which might mean more planeswalker / equipment from that angle. Honestly I still don't know on a lot of this which is why I am a little shy of a full deck.

Niv-Mizzet, Parun vs Hullbreaker Horror - I think both are fine. I shouldn't have an issue casting Niv later. Its possible I might miss being able to cast him on exactly six mana but I don't think that is all that concerning. I like the Horror a lot more when planning to play with more counter magic. Some of the appeal of Niv is planning to draw some cards as he gets answered. Its hard to Horror back 1-2 mana spot removal repeatedly. I guess it does come down a little bit to how much sweeper answers you expect vs spot removal. I am also not convinced that the real solution is to run neither but I wanted a little bit more draw and I like how Niv probably gets me some draw even if its off of my opponent removing him.

Oh also I don't think Arena Rector will really work out so I am going to cut him and I am now -2 cards from 100.

EDIT: Just to throw out a few things I am contemplating.
  • Field of the Dead - I could split my basics with snow lands and have more token gen while being insulated from sweepers. 2/2s probably aren't amazing but it does give me more blocking options and things to mutate onto without tieing up more card slots on spell trigger stuff.
  • Drift of Phantasms - Its kind of terrible as far as a creature goes but it could still defend the chad squad. It does transmute to get Gideon of the Trials or Chance for Glory which does seem good.
  • Double Vision - I like its lower cost even if the payoff isn't as high it can still copy extra turns cast off my commander and that is sort of a big deal.
  • Stony Silence / Null Rod - It would be at the cost of my artifacts but I just have to say it, I am really tired of treasure.
  • Misdirection / Force of Will / Rebuff the Wicked - Its possible I want more emergency protection effects.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Putting the deck together I had a lot of realizations as I was putting it together. My initial thoughts pushed me towards more of a spellslinger concept but as I was building it I realized that I could probably lean more into artifact / enchantment / planeswalkers than I was given my commander's ability to recur them as well. I have done some spellslinger in the past and some of the issue it can have is needing to generate extra value from casting cheap cantrips and given that my commander doesn't really do that it can be hard to always have a creature from the deck to do that. I still felt like I was going to end up with a decent big of spells being cast but I went away a little from the all in concept of casting instant and sorcery spells because I didn't feel like I could proc enough triggers from them. I also wanted to increase the number of good target mutates I have as I felt like a number of my creatures weren't great as mutate targets.

CUTS:
  • Monastery Mentor - I didn't feel like I could trigger enough triggers fast enough to really make this as much of a threat as I would want it to be.
  • Archmage Emeritus - Its a human creature and it needs follow up. I don't think its a terrible idea but if we are just talking random card draw it could just as easily be a Rhystic Study which the commander could recur. I want most of my creatures to be defensive or mutate options and push most of my random card advantage where possible to things my commander can recur.
  • Murmuring Mystic - I am going away from tokens a bit currently in my build pushing the tokens to be more of defensive measures. I think that this card is still fine but I am pairing my token production back to just the cards I feel are really good. Kykar and Talrand make similar tokens but Kykar can use his for mana and Talrand makes bigger ones. I wanted to start off probably lightly on the tokens element and just see how they perform for now before going deeper or cutting them off entirely. When I started with this idea I thought I was going for a token strategy but as I keep brewing it looks like I am leaning more into a potential voltron wincon strategy which is fine it just comes with changes.
  • Docent of Perfection - really same as with the other two token producers. Docent is really really good but if I am not as consistant in getting the spell triggers he is a lot worse as you really need to flip him and do so quickly.
  • Dragonlord Ojutai - Ojutai is probably fine I just thought it felt a little clunky. The idea of having a safe place to mutate onto is still appealing and I think what he does is good but I am also fine with not running him. He seemed like an ok but not exciting add.
  • Pouncing Shoreshark - As I kept thinking about it I really didn't want to use the shoreshark outside of a situation where my commander had already mutated onto something. I felt it was not good interaction and the level of winmore it would take didn't feel great as I am already concerned with landing my commander in the first place and putting something that might work after I land my commander that has all the same risk didn't seem so great.
  • Sun Titan - My issue is mostly that my commander covers most of the angle of this card already. Its true that its some redundancy but I felt like it was mostly going to aim for lands given if I care enough to pay mana to recur something else I have my commander as an option for that.
  • Soul-Guide Lantern - Its cool because I can recur it with my commander but honestly this deck might not win via a slow means it might burst out and murder someone out of nowhere putting in 14+ commander damage given that mutating my commander might equate to an extra turn and I have several 7 powered kind of threats that could swing immediately as my commander mutates on. I guess what I am trying to say is I don't know that graveyard abuse is my biggest concern since my own wincon is kind of comboish if not outright combo.
  • Firemind's Research - I think this card is cool, but also as I realized I wasn't as dedicated to being spellslinger and chaining everything I opted to drop it.
  • Mystical Tutor - I probably don't need card disadvantage to tutor instant / sorceries in my list.
  • Path to Exile - I just opted to move to Swords to Plowshares instead. Originally I had some fantasy dream of repeatedly pathing my tokens lol but thats what extra turns are for instead so lets just move to the better interaction.
  • Unexpectedly Absent - From the standpoint of repeated use I don't think Unexpectedly Absent is that impressive. Its good as an emergency use interaction but I am focusing a bit more on repeated use right now and I don't think its quite where I want to be.
  • Generous Gift - I might circle back to this but I opted to cut it for Leadership Vacuum due to seeming like a really good effect to recur with my commander and just push someone into the ground. Gift is more versatile in its removal but I felt like the draw on Vaccuum was not something to disregard.
  • Cleansing Wildfire - Just recur and loop the extra turns instead. I think these are fine but they also take up some room in my landbase to support them and I think its better to loop the extra turns instead so I opted to drop them.
  • Geomancer's Gambit - same as above.
  • Sevinne's Reclamation - Its not bad but my commander covers most of the same thing outside of lands and creatures but the extra turns also cover similar goals with casting this on lands so I opted to cut it for now.
  • Flagstones of Trokair / Razortide Bridge (and friends) - I cut the Cleansing Wildfire package and went to a better landbase. I won't identify it all but I moved to ABU duels for now and depending on how the deck functions I might try to work them out given time but I wanted to start strong with the landbase and see how I can adjust.
ADDS:
  • Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer - If he comes up later in the game I can dash him out and mutate on top of him creating a looping extra turn monster that might result in infinite turns. What I like though is that he is a great early game threat that I can mutate onto to give him more size and flying / first strike so it feels like he has a progression of duties throughout the game and I own a copy so why the hell not lets throw in the broken modern monkey and see if he works here.
  • Ledger Shredder - filter is useful with a recursion commander and I like how it can be a good sized attacker / defender not to mention it seems reasonable as a mutate option since it keeps the counters and ability to gain more.
  • Drift of Phantasms - its an option to go and get Gideon of the Trials. There are other useful things it can get as well like Out of Time or Chance for Glory. I am a little concerned about its mana cost but its really not any worse than Call the Gatewatch other than being harder to cast again but its more diverse in what it can retrieve.
  • Kefnet the Mindful - defensive and its an alright mana sink in a pinch. Its reasonable as a mutate target although I think I like it to just play defense a bit more.
  • Archon of Coronation - I like how monarch splits attention between hitting players for the monarch and my planeswalkers. The Archon here is also helpful from a defensive standpoint against some non combat based wincons like Aetherflux Reservoir or Purphoros, God of the Forge as well as several bursty combat based ones like Craterhoof Behemoth.
  • Realm-Cloaked Giant - It can be a sweeper but its also a chonky boy. Getting a 7/7 vigilance target to mutate onto makes my commander a 7/7 flying vigilant first striker so that is sort of appealing on top of this being a sweeper which I haven't pushed much for so its probably good to have some.
  • Swiftfoot Boots - It can help defend from spot removal as I go to mutate. I normally don't care much for boots because opponents can spot remove in response to putting them on but that is still helpful due to how mutate works its better to be safe and put up a defense beforehand.
  • Umezawa's Jitte - I like how much board control Jitte can offer and I was adding a bit of an equipment package.
  • Batterskull - I realized how much I liked the idea of mutating onto the germ for a 7/7 vigilant lifelinking flying commander.
  • Aura of Silence - Commander can recur it and its honestly an amazing card.
  • Fall from Favor - It can mess up attackers or blockers and start up monarch. I considered some other monarch stuff but I liked that this was a cheap effect that did something beyond start up monarch.
  • Out of Time - I don't have much for sweepers but I like how my commander can recur this in a pinch and it can be incredibly disruptive.
  • Swords to Plowshares - Just bringing it in for Path of Exile. I think its better removal especially if you ever have to spot remove a commander pathing them can be a real pain.
  • Thought Scour - cheap cantrip and I think self milling is a plus for a recursive commander.
  • Leadership Vacuum - I like how it can screw with commanders through a lot of protections and draws a card. It seems like a worthwhile thing to recur potentially with my commander.
  • Gamble - its a means to find Gideon of the Trials or whatever else I need. Even though its a bit risky I built a lot of my deck off the back of my commander's mutate being able to recur important pieces so even if I fumble its still kind of fine.
  • Jeska's Will - I have shifted to be a lot more proactive with this deck and I think its a strong card to recur with my commander.
  • Gemstone Caverns - Its downside is generally only if you are going first or draw it in the first few turns. I think it has a lot of potential for being good in this format while not taking up much space.
  • Field of the Dead - I went away from being a token deck but I think cheap almost free tokens are still useful in chump blocking or adding together to be threatening to larger targets. Adding Field really doesn't take up much space.
Thoughts and considerations moving forward:
  • Rhystic Study - I go back and forth on its inclusion. I had it in then I cut it because its hella annoying but it fits the curve of what this deck wants.
  • Godo, Bandit Warlord - Its a human which kind of sucks but it can get me Batterskull and then the next turn I can mutate onto Batterskull and 2x attack on top of recurring something so it might offer the option to literally murder someone if I have an extra turn given the 2x combats it gives. My issue is that I don't really like Godo outside of Batterskull so if I draw them out of order I don't really like godo lol.
  • Intuition - It could be justified for similar reasons to Gamble I just think I haven't really figured out a package that makes sense to me. Gideon of the Trials + Underworld Breach + 2 cmc extra turn could be a thing I guess. If I do it early though and they give me the Breach I am going to have a hard time unearthing both of the other two in one go as I probably don't have enough cheap cantrip spells for that to go smoothly.
I want to see how the idea of going voltron really pans out and I want to see what level of impact my much smaller spellslinger package has. I have a fear that I probably don't have enough actual card draw in the list but I figure we will get some testing in before I start panicking on any particular point given I have zero game experience with this so far. I am also still sort of completely accepting that I am not protecting myself from interaction thus far and I am not sure where I stand on that lol. I probably walk into getting murked at least once from interaction to my chads but I want to see how bad it is and how I feel about it first because I think that is also a little bit of the charm of this deck. I kind of want to go out that way lol.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Let me start off by saying I got to play three games this weekend and I won one, we ran out of time in one and had to scrap it, and I got ran down in one somehow making a bunch of enemies by something small and dying on like turn 6. I won't step through all of the games because they were very long games and in all those three games makes up probably 4-5 hours of gameplay so recapping it all could be hard to do especially since only the fast one where I died quickly was short on my end.

So, first of all... I need more draw / card advantage and I need more sources of defense. I constantly felt like I was putting out things that were making me a target while failing to defend myself adequately. In some cases I was defending myself but I found my defense was often on a sole card often being the big pile of mutation that my commander makes up. Most of the positivity I can comment on has been that I ended up with early game Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull more than once and it was really not a small thing. Stoneforge was good but I also noticed that I probably need an early game value / draw option for it to play to which I felt I didn't have. If I had a Sword of the Animist for instance I think it would have been useful in more than one case.

So, the extra turns and such are hilarious and really fun. I really loved having Glorious End and I actually cast it to win the first game and cast it to lose the second game which was funny but we were out of time anyways. I felt like they were awkward in some cases but those were the games I was having issues drawing cards anyways. I think the solution is to push up my defenses and draw and see if it makes things feel less awkward.

I don't want to address my changes yet because I am still figuring some of them out I just wanted to comment that I got my first games in and the deck was a lot of fun. I have some adjusting to make and I need to play it back. In my testing and thinking about some things I think there could also be something with the same chad / suicide turns thing off the back of Pramikon, Sky Rampart as the commander leaning harder into the planeswalker concept but I had a hard time coming up with what the heck my wincon would be with that which is part of why I am leery of making that change but it could be a thing too. I am likely going to step up and get another 1-2 sweepers, more defense, and more card advantage. The trick will be what all I have to cut to turn into those things.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

This is in no way helpful, but it's giga not gigga.

Fun concept, I can't think of any obvious improvements though.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
This is in no way helpful, but it's giga not gigga.

Fun concept, I can't think of any obvious improvements though.
Funnel the chad (fixed it)

Thanks. Its really kind of silly and really not optimal but I have really enjoyed the extreme ups and downs of trying to assemble all this lol.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Ok, I have a bunch of changes coming through and most of them are a little bit of a reflection from some of my above thoughts after testing. I needed to defend myself better which means more defenses and sweeping in general. I think a bigger change though is I am going away from a spellcast trigger concept mostly altogether. Before there had been value in random cantrips like say Scout's Warning in generating triggers for my other effects but I found myself going further and further away from that concept as time went on. I have built spellslinger concepts on the back of that type of a concept a few times now but the big thing is my commander isn't a value generator in that sense and I had a hard time with all the requirements of having good targets to mutate onto for my commander and maintaining enough value off of casting these cantrips. You generally need something to power along these cantrips to keep them going and I didn't find it working out consistently enough. I am just shifting in a way that I think (not really sure) benefits the fact that my commander can rez one thing as its value and try to defend myself. I guess my point is that I don't really want to cast my commander on mutate and just get a Scout's Warning recast.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Ragavan, Nimble PilfererPramikon, Sky Rampart Ragavan was cool and interesting but he is more offensive than defensive which is how I need to play this deck. I have also cast him in a number of decks and he is a lot harder to get to cast opponents spells on average not to mention his nature is to generally fall off given time and be hard to connect to players after the first few turns. I did mutate onto him with my commander once after T1 casting him but I had an issue defending myself and had to use him as a really bad shield. So, this is me taking out something I view as a weird value aggro thing for something more defensive.
  • Deep Gnome TerramancerCrucible of Worlds I just need some value and to keep hitting my land drops. I recently moved metas and I don't know where I stand as far as opponents playing lands decks and ramp decks. Crucible should still help me get land drops but I am hoping its a bit more consistent for me. I didn't really plan to mutate onto the gnome nor was it really any asset on attacking or defending so moving to crucible should give me a more consistent card advantage as well as the ability to recover it via my commander.
  • Thing in the IceFog Bank I am moving away from the value on cast trigger spells and I was also having a lot more issue chaining and drawing enough to support the spellslinger concept. I thought that Thing in the Ice was amusing as I could mutate onto the backside but the problem was I couldn't flip it as easily as I wanted which made it kind of bad. Lets just run back a Fog Bank and see how things go.
  • Kykar, Wind's FuryBrightling Cutting more of the spellcast stuff. I am going to be honest.... I don't really have much faith in adding Brightling but I have some fond memories of its cousin Morphling which makes me want to try it out. The fact that I could have a vigilant flying lifelinking first striker that can shift its power and toughness around and bounce back to hand kind of all sounds great. Bouncing back to hand can reset my commander to mutate again and I just like what it could potentially do in combat. This all said.... we are talking about a weird 3 drop with no ETB or value generation that I want to mutate onto. I am not really sure that its viable but I just love the design of this type of card enough that I am going to see if I can't test it.
  • Talrand, Sky SummonerTragic Arrogance cutting the spellslinger stuff and I feel like Tragic Arrogance is the type of wrath that really benefits me given that I stack up a few things on one creature which seems to play well to what it does.
  • Archon of CoronationValakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge I might circle back to thoughts on monarch later assuming I can defend adiquately but lets start with defending myself first. I like that Valakut can shift away some of the reliant on Gideon setup cards when I can't cast them or dig for Gideons. It feels versatile and even the option of a land is probably fine.
  • Niv-Mizzet, ParunZetalpa, Primal Dawn Niv was slow to land and I am moving off the spellslinger thing. Zetalpa isn't amazing but its defensive and its a good mutate target for my commander letting me punch for good damage while also defending.
  • Sol RingLion Sash I realized that I don't have a lot of opening hand sol ring hands that really seemed like they benefit this concept that much. Adding the Lion adds some grave hate which I had lacked and expands the equipment tutor slots. I felt like the Lion was alright being mutated onto as well as equipping to my commander later so it seems decent in a few ways for me.
  • Swiftfoot BootsSword of the Animist I wanted to have an early game value option for my equipment tutors. I wasn't disappointed in T2 Stoneforge to batterskull but in some of those cases I would have rather had access to draw or ramp instead.
  • Umezawa's JitteSweltering Suns Jitte was slower to spin up because of how much I needed to prioritize defense. I also don't have a lot of sweepers and I like how Suns can be recurred with my commander and has the cycling option if I don't like it.
  • Underworld BreachRhystic Study breach was going to be better mashing through cantrips quick. I am dropping away from that so lets go to more standalone draw.
  • Fall from FavorSmuggler's Share swapping some draw for draw here. I had a hard time keeping monarch with how my defenses were previously. So just trading out some draw for some different option.
  • Jeskai AscendancyExpressive Iteration I am going away from the spammy spellcast and tokens which are things the ascendancy does well. The cycling is still not bad but I lost a lot of the reason to run it and I just wanted some cheap card advantage instead. I like that Expressive can push a land drop and draw me a card even on turn 3 and later on it opens up more options.
  • Scout's WarningSteelshaper's Gift moving off the cantrip spells to some degree. I still think its fine with some of the cantrips that give card selection but I am dropping some of the cantrip only type effects. I still think Scout's Warning is interesting and cool but Gift can get me Lion Sash to hand on turn 1 so it just seems like there is a lot of options to set it up for this deck.
  • Expansion // ExplosionTeferi, Time Raveler it takes too much time to set up the gideon gameplan to extra turns and the copy thing was originally in for me as a copy the extra turns. It left me with the Explosion part which didn't seem to be what I was aiming for either. I like that Teferi, Time Raveler can cantrip cheaply while adding some disruption and it also makes it harder for opponents to disrupt my mutate if he is in play and can be recovered from my commander's mutate. Given I was already pushing to play a bit more defensively it felt like it played well towards what my deck's goals were anyways.
  • WastelandSnow-Covered Plains I wanted to cut some of my colorless lands back just given how color intensive I seem to be. I looked quick at my deck's color stats and it looks like I could maybe use a little more white so I opted to go that way.
Hopefully I can get some of these cards as I have been putting in orders all week getting ready for the deck changes. Nothing has really shown up yet but I still have a few days for maybe some of them to show up. The changes I outlined are quite sweeping and it might seem extreme to make so many changes but I sort of realized there was a problem with pushing spellslinger here and my testing really felt like it backed me up on that thought.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Ok, I had a really sweet game today. I was mostly playing conservatively and got set up with an early Fog Bank and mostly just passed turns doing small things like Expressive Iteration to draw cards and such. I played Djeru, With Eyes Open and tutored Gideon of the Trials to hand for later. I slow played to a Batterskull tutored by Steelshaper's Gift as I didn't have anything decent to mutate onto but had the mana to set up Batterskull.

I mutated onto the germ token and got another use of Expressive Iteration from it. I will say that is a really nice spell for what all it does and it makes me think I might need to consider some Divination style of cards. When I went to attack my commander ate a Rapid Hybridization so either they didn't understand what I was doing with my commander or were just saving it for defensive acts.

The next turn the Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm player got a little crazy off of a double pair of mana producing dragons with haste and he piled his hand into play. Everyone got ready for what was coming and the mono blue player tutored Temporal Mastery to the top of his deck revealed.

I knew some crap was going down so I just moved my Batterskull over onto the 3/3 token and swung at the dragon player figuring that it didn't matter where it connected gaining 7 life had value. I passed my turn at which point the mono blue player alt cast a Gush and cast his Temporal Mastery. I decided since I was going to have to discard to hand size anyways I cast my Chance for Glory.

I lead off my extra turn with casting Gideon of the Trials who ate a Mana Drain. I played my land for the turn and got a zombie token from Field of the Dead which I then Mutated Vadrok onto the zombie token getting Gideon back into play and ulting him. I played Warrior's Oath and proceeded to another extra turn.

The second extra turn I played Sunforger attaching it to Vodrok I swung at the mono blue player for 7 damage and then used Sunforger to get Final Fortune and chain to another turn.

The third extra turn I played Djeru, With Eyes Open again getting Teferi, Time Raveler and playing him out. I re-equpped the Sunforger and hit the mono blue player again, because I was tired of him. I ended with a Rhystic Study as opponents went to rebuild.

Opponents started setting back up. The mono blue player tutored his miracle card back to top of his deck but Teferi is causing him issues in he can't cast it for miracle. The Dragon player replays his commander and everyone else plays a bit back to play. I end of turn Fact or Fiction and end up with Mystic Sanctuary and Serum Visions to hand.

Somewhere in the above turns I had time to get Batterskull back into play I can't recall when it was but I put it on my commander now bringing him up to the 11+ power range. I recover Chance for Glory and play it again and start doming my opponents hard. I hit the dragon player with my commander and finish off the mono blue player with a pile of zombies. While having animated Gideon for the indestructible pickup.

Everyone realizes once I have mass indestructible as I am going to kill the dragon player off the back of having bounced his commander with Teferi and they all scoop but I would have killed all but one of them that turn.



Soooooooo it was a really good game. I am still missing the Brightling as its somewhere in the mail. Lets talk about a few cards real quick that I have my eye on and some thoughts real quick on some of my recent adds.

Unsure About
  • Lore Drakkis - I think..... I am unfortunately going to have to cut this guy. I think its amusing and its cool and on theme but it seems like my hope is to have it after setting up my commander. It feels a bit winmore in that case and if I am not putting it onto my commander then its a little not great. I am thinking about bailing on the other mutate cards the more I think about them.
  • Crucible of Worlds - If I have good draw I think its not good. So it really shines when things aren't working and then its like ok. I am not really sure where I stand on it. It was in for the game but I didn't see it but I was second guessing it as I was adding it in and I am still not sure about it here.
Considering
  • Wall of Omens - I put it in my list for Brightling since it wasn't in and I think its ok on defense. It doesn't have much opportunity cost so it might be reasonable to toss it in.
  • Sweepers - I think that a sweeper to set up can be fairly good as I saw here. It can help me set up my planeswalkers. I want to keep watching the deck but its possible that something like Rout might be useful to clear on demand. My only issue is how expensive that is.
  • Cheap Draw - There are a few three mana cards like Divination that might be worth testing. Archmage's Charm is tempting if not for the super awkward UUU casting cost. I have also considered possibly some wheels like Wheel of Fortune / Windfall and it might be something to explore but some of my issue with the wheels is how I need to set up specific things before going for the killing me cards. I am asking a rules question right now about what the interaction with my commander and Ancestral Vision are so depending on what that is I might test it out.
I was really happy with this deck tonight. I would have played it back but I was playing with a single group of people and I generally don't want to play back a deck that works super well and wins on the same players.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Ok, I have another batch of changes this one being smaller. My game last week went really well and I really just need to put in some more test games to see some follow up. One of my changes this week is a little controversial as I am removing Sanctum of Eternity which in my opinion is a very good card in this deck I just have such an adversion to setting up infinite loops like extra turns that I refuse to execute it so because I am already not executing it when I could have last week I am just going to cut it. Being 100% optimal I should have it in and while it probably could be useful outside of the infinite combo I just want to ship it off for something else that I will feel less bad being in my deck.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Lore DrakkisThe Restoration of Eiganjo // Architect of Restoration I did get this mutate creature to work for me once or twice not as a full stack on top of my commander but I just felt it was awkward and risky most of the time. I like restoration as it functions as a ramp mechanic but interestingly the backside creature is actually fairly reasonable to mutate my commander onto becoming a vigilant 3/4 who makes tokens on attack and defense which can help me go wider and stop attacks. My commander can also mutate to rez the card so I felt like it was all in all not bad for this deck.
  • Crucible of WorldsWall of Omens I realized that I really did want a cheap cantriping blocker that can help go wide on my blocks like wall of omens. There are a few other 2/3 mana creatures that also cantrip but they lack any toughness to help chump without dying so I think for now I am just going in on the wall but I suppose its some mutate food for thought for the future. I do still think that Crucible of Worlds can be good but its good when you don't have other draw online and need to scrape for value getting those lands each turn. Its worth mentioning that I was more or less using it as a more expensive Land Tax. I am going to stay away from those I think just because I do have access to blue so my priority is to maintain enough card advantage that I don't need to fall back on these sort of cards.
  • BrainstormAncestral Vision Brainstorm takes a little bit of setup in this format needing a shuffle effect to make it its best which for me puts it at being a little inferior to Ponder / Preordain. Beyond that though I wanted to test Ancestral Vision since I can recur it with my commander which sounds incredibly powerful even if the wait on suspend can be a bit slow. I figured that taking extra turns as a concept of this deck does play towards the suspend a little at the least.
  • Gideon, the OathswornElspeth Resplendent this is a bit awkward as it involves cutting a Chad and I want to be thick with Chads. That said this is the most expensive one to cast and he also does the least for my deck. When I started this project I was using token strategies and I thought that his counters could add up on a bunch of attackers but as I cut the tokens this Gideon got a lot worse. I figured Elspeth can dig for the 3 mana chads still and her plus effect looks really powerful with a lot of what I am trying to do already if my board is already good allowing me to pick up sweet keywords and power on Vodrok.
  • Sanctum of EternityTyrite Sanctum Well, I don't really know about this change I just wanted to get off of Sanctum due to feeling bad about having potential infinite combos in my deck. The sactum can help in a pinch make some blocks manageable and it can help me voltron up.
This deck is super fun so far. It really gets the blood going as you just yolo all in out of nowhere seeing if anyone can stop you lol. This probably isn't a good concept to play against a control based meta because even if you could defend it it just stops making as much sense to do it if you have to assemble all this and then defend it while it also being nowhere near deterministic. Its been a lot of fun though for me so far and I am looking forward to playing it more.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Its been a bit since I have gotten to play but I did play some with this deck since last update. I only managed to play two games and in the second game it was a three player game where I got essentially 2v1ed from the get go and I just conceded after eating 4 counterspells and one spot removal because the game stopped being fun with literally nothing resolving. There isn't really much to do about that sort of situation I just wasn't having fun and my opponents decided to gang up on me with no boardstate allowing one of the other players to literally walk away with the game because one player couldn't read the board and decided to use a bunch of counterspells on me. I did win the other game though in a situation where I had some chump blocks into actual better blockers and shifted a voltron deck away from me until I could take the game over with my commander. I don't have a lot to say about these games as they were a few weeks ago so not much to add to them but I did manage to see some play with some of the new cards but I haven't seen them so much that I feel I can really comment that much on them as of yet but the first glance looked good.

Some small changes I wanted to make though:

DECK CHANGES:
  • Drift of PhantasmsMystic Remora Drift felt too slow and clunky for what it was doing. It was still a tutor for a planeswalker and it could do a few other things but the mana cost to do it just didn't feel worthwhile. I want to shift to a little less tutor strategy and have more card advantage. If I draw more I can have less tutors and I think its the direction I want to shift to a bit. The other problem with Drift is that it couldn't be recurred by most of my strategy which left me not liking it as much as something like Search for Glory which can be recast from my commander.
  • BrightlingDack Fayden man I want brightling to work lol. I acknowledge that its kind of bad but I just love these type of cards. I remember getting beat up by Morphling wayyy back in the day and I know I get some old vibes from it that I probably shouldn't run it lol. I haven't been impressed enough to keep him in and some of the other walkers that have been recurrable from my commander have been impressive enough that I suppose I should run Dack and see how he goes. I like his first two abilities and I think they have good synergy with the deck so lets give him a shot.
  • Djeru, With Eyes OpenSerra Paragon Djeru is a human which is probably the only thing I don't like about it due to how mutate works otherwise I think I would be a lot more on board for running him. I think the new Serra looks decent and I want to try her out. I am not really sure where she stands compared to Sun Titan but I suppose we can try her out and see what I think. I could always bring Sun Titan in here as I think he is alright in this deck but lets start with the angel and see how she goes.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Ok its been a while since the last update. Overall the deck has been doing well but it has felt a little creature light of late. I also think I might need to have a little more digging so I am trying to shore up some creature count and some rummaging here with a few changes. I don't know that I have my tutors for Gideon count at the right numbers anymore but I think I need to run more testing to really feel that out. With the creature count feeling like a bit of an issue I am also questioning some of the equipment more specifically on the front of Sword of the Animist which generally I want early but I need early creatures as well to power it. I am probably cutting back some on my equipment package / tutors but I still think that Batterskull's germ is one of my better mutate targets in the deck.
  • Call the GatewatchCompulsive Research I am still a bit leery of cutting some of my tutors for Gideon but its true that they are harder to abuse those cards and in a lot of cases if I don't have the time and space to set that up paying 3 mana to tutor a card to hand that I don't have the defenses / time to execute can be hard. I also think that call is one of my worse noncreature spells in that while I could recast it with my commander its kind of hot garbage of a target. I contemplated if I wanted Thirst for Knowledge due to being an instant instead but I think the broader option to discard a land and be sorcery speed is probably better than being an instant with a higher chance of discarding two cards.
  • Serra ParagonSun Titan I tried out Serra.... I was disappointed. I don't think this deck is great for Sun Titan either but I need more creatures and I like his statline + vigilance as far as mutate targets go and you can sort of bait out removal by attacking with him as is for a turn or two first as a lot of people who might be keeping up spot removal might want to use it to stop his attack trigger. I still think that in this deck he is going to be heavily towards ramping which isn't great but I just need to find more creatures I like for this deck.
  • Dack FaydenPrismari Command Dack......... wasn't that impressive to me. I tutored for him on turn three one game and there was a mana rock and I was like..... wow I would rather just loot than steal your rock with him. It was really weird and while I did get to loot a good bit with him that game I think I would rather just have a more flexible card like the command and see how it goes.
  • SunforgerVexilus Praetor Sunforger has been REALLY REALLY slow. I have lived the dream and tutored extra turns while beating down on people with my commander with +4 power in this deck. That all said, I think its a total trap of a card and its just too damn slow. The setup required for it to actually work here is like, I have everything already so at that point its just a winmore card and I don't need that. I can mutate onto Vexilus Praetor and have pro everything and while its statline will suck I still think its super funny and I want to try that.
  • Steelshaper's GiftThirst for Discovery cutting back on my equipment package a little while I am having the creatures in play issue. I want a little more filter / draw to offset cutting into the tutors for Gideon.
I keep thinking briefly about the possibility of bringing Cloudsteel Kirin into this deck but its totally backwards awkward in that my commander can't rez it and its like an absolutely terrible creature. Being an equipment though opens up some tutor options for it though and it plays a bit similar to the chards in a sense. I feel like if I were to try to run it though I would probably need to push for some hexproof creatures or even some effects that could maybe protect artifacts which feels......... not great. Then there is the crazy as all hell idea of like.... The Book of Exalted Deeds and trying to put that on Mutavault or something but..... ehhhh there just aren't that many effects to stop you from losing the game and most of them kind of suck :/
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Post by Chromaticus » 11 months ago

Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus looks like it could be good fun for this deck - you can mutate onto the germ and keep on swinging :D

Also wondering if this might be a good Thrill of Possibility / Cathartic Reunion deck - I believe you don't have to discard when you mutate, while simultaneously you can discard things like Ancestral Vision or the new bribery one.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 11 months ago

Chromaticus wrote:
11 months ago
Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus looks like it could be good fun for this deck - you can mutate onto the germ and keep on swinging :D

Also wondering if this might be a good Thrill of Possibility / Cathartic Reunion deck - I believe you don't have to discard when you mutate, while simultaneously you can discard things like Ancestral Vision or the new bribery one.
Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus looks great. Yea looking forward to getting my hands on that. I like having more mana with this deck too but it can be hard to have a creature to swing with for some of the Sword of the Animist kind of stuff but coming with a body is a big deal. I am running animist in my list currently but I have also seen times where it gets awkward due to my creature count not being super stellar.

Thrill of Possibility / Cathartic Reunion - I think these effects are fine, I opt for the blue ones in part because they draw first and then discard later and I think that is better than upfront discarding. I don't think its wrong to go deeper on these but also its worth mentioning that they are kind of card neutral in that you end up with the same size of hand. Its still useful when you are digging for that one card which we kind of are with this deck as we need the gideon emblem but that said I also need to draw positive card advantage too. There is probably some fine balance between filtering and tutoring that I will admit I probably don't have nailed down quite yet but I think that you can have too much or two little of both mechanics.

Just gonna give a few updates since I haven't done so in this deck for a while. I think I need to boost up my options to cast my commander out. My creature count feels like I often run out of creatures or don't find them fast enough. Some of my creatures have been a little awkward too so I will call out two that have been a little sub par for me being Ledger Shredder and Zetalpa, Primal Dawn. I do have two legendary tutors and gamble in my list so if I really need Avacyn I feel like I can still get her but Zetalpa hasn't been as impressive. Ledger Shredder feels like he relies on lining up correctly which he mostly hasn't been for me. So I probably need to remove these two. I do want to push up my creature count a bit maybe even relying on some additional sticky token gen and I think I could use more draw as a whole for this deck. Everyone comes for my creatures in this list because of the fact that I need to mutate on them and I also need them to defend my walkers so I need to look a bit deeper into that. I don't have changes to outline right now but its something I am thinking about.
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Post by Chromaticus » 11 months ago

Maybe something like Wedding Announcement // Wedding Festivity as a non-creature permanent that makes a couple dudes over 2 turns to mutate onto, and draws cards if you happen to already have attackers?

Edit: damn humans! I thought this made vampires.

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Post by Chromaticus » 11 months ago

Alright, better option - Shorikai, Genesis Engine to continually spit out dudes and create card advantage while enabling a discard outlet for free spells.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 11 months ago

Chromaticus wrote:
11 months ago
Maybe something like Wedding Announcement // Wedding Festivity as a non-creature permanent that makes a couple dudes over 2 turns to mutate onto, and draws cards if you happen to already have attackers?

Edit: damn humans! I thought this made vampires.
Chromaticus wrote:
11 months ago
Alright, better option - Shorikai, Genesis Engine to continually spit out dudes and create card advantage while enabling a discard outlet for free spells.
I really haven't dug into things yet but I was thinking of possibly expanding into something like Kher Keep where it is something that can be used in a pinch to get a not important token that can be used for blocking for planeswalkers or mutated onto. I do need to actually look through things and I really haven't yet so I won't throw out a bunch of ideas right now.

Shorikai, Genesis Engine - Hummm yea that might be nice. I just put in an order to get a few copies as its a reasonable card.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 10 months ago

Its worth mentioning that in the last six months I have only had a chance to go out and play a handful of times and while this deck is sweet it isn't my newest deck so my gameplay experience was somewhat limited and I haven't updated it too much recently. It also means that some of the last changes I made to the list above haven't been tested as thoroughly.

Deck Changes:
  • Ledger ShredderSoul-Guide Lantern I realized I was down to like.... exclusively Lion Sash as my graveyard hate and figured maybe a touch more. I obviously would rather not hit my own graveyard so lets roll with the Lantern.
  • Sword of the AnimistBitterhorn, Nissa's Animus I think this is mostly just an upgrade. The only situation I can think of where it isn't would be in games where I have a cheap creature early and brick on lands. But thats sort of a situation I would rather not keep anyways.
  • Zetalpa, Primal DawnShorikai, Genesis Engine Zetalpa mostly felt like an inferior Avacyn, Angel of Hope to me. I got too many situations where I drew it and just wished it was something else. With some of the looting added to the deck I just found myself always trying to bin him. Shorikai, Genesis Engine gives me some looting but also opens up some options of mutate targets. It seemed like decent card advantage with some looting and tokens all wrapped up which is a lot of what I wanted. Good call from @Chromaticus to include it as it seems like a lot of what I want to be doing.
  • Compulsive ResearchSteelshaper's Gift I feel like I might want to bank a little harder on my equipment slot. With the addition of the new living weapon Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus it opens me up to more early game equipment options. I don't think I want to go crazy on equipment tutors unless I felt I could expand my equipment toolbox but the simple change of having a Sword of the Animist that comes with its own body really does change a lot of the early game potential with equipment and equipment tutors.
  • Search for GloryNarset, Parter of Veils Search just feels a bit too slow to resolve and do something after it in a turn. I will be honest I kind of expect Narset to die in a fire but it gives me something to fight annoying combo decks that just proactive their way until they push their win button. I suspect it will die kind of a lot but I can res it and its dig effect replaces her so it seems worth adding in case someone is pushing too much draw especially into combo wincons.
  • Elspeth ResplendentTeferi, Master of Time I still think that Elspeth is really cool but my hit ratio wasn't as good as I wanted it to be and I also felt like she was very vulnerable when I would go to play her as I would normally want to tick her down but that was sort of an unknown situation in a lot of cases meaning if I found a noncreature with her she would probably die by the next turn. Moving to Teferi I like that he is a lot more defensive in that his loyalty goes up and does so quickly as well as giving me that spot interaction in a pinch. I had a lot of time where I felt very hesitant to play out elspeth because I didn't have enough control of the board that I am hoping Teferi doesn't encounter quite as hard.
Equipment as a whole - I think the next logical step is to see if I can't bring up my equipment count by one. My issue with this is mostly that I don't feel I have enough creatures in the list especially to get set up early on for connecting. If I had the creatures to pull it off I would probably try to push in Mask of Memory because looting and card advantage but I could also see something like Sword of Forge and Frontier for ramp and card advantage potentially just because it also comes with some evasion. I think that the fact that I got to push up into three creature body equipment was something to let me step into more tutors but I also think I would want more equipment if I went much further into that which I could do with Open the Armory, Fighter Class, or Godo, Bandit Warlord.

Its just an odd thought but I was also thinking about Intuition in here. The problem I have with it is that it feels like a LOT of setup work. I came close to including it in these changes but it felt like it had some of the same issues as I was having with Search for Glory but with the upside of being instant speed. The problem is a lot of times good Intuition piles tend to be one high demand card and two recursion cards. I was thinking about Ancestral Vision but if my opponents give me that card I have to wait for the suspend or rely on looting and then casting my commander to get the payoff. The other options would be a bit political and hoping someone gives me an answer or jumping through all the hoops to get one from my commander.

Enlightened Tutor / Anchor to Reality might also be something I consider. I was looking at Shorikai, Genesis Engine and wondering if I couldn't pick up some consistency in getting access to it since it does so much I want to do. I wasn't really convinced that their downsides of sac or card disadvantage were worth it but enlightened also doubling as an answer later might be worth having.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 9 months ago

I got a good long game in with this deck. I somehow pulled out my single copy of Pact of Negation in response to an Armageddon when I yoloed my hand with Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge which was ridiculously lucky. I used a Lion Sash to pump up and two shot one of my opponents and then had to fall back on Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off for the other opponent chaining 3 turns together to mash his face in.

Worth noting in this long game that Vexilus Praetor was a huge issue for my own deck because of it becoming protection from everything. The problem is mostly just that my commander isn't big enough on its own to get away with this working in a lot of cases. It pulls equipment off of my commander and makes it so I can't pump him up further than whatever he is mutated on. I do plan on that card going as soon as I figure out what to swap it with.

Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus and Shorikai, Genesis Engine both showed up in this game and had fairly good showings. I did feel like I might have to reassess my basic land count potentially depending on how much work Bitterhorn puts in as well as depending on how many tutors I start running for it to set up early. Shorikai worked just like I had hoped for it but I guess it maybe is a little much upfront cost given how little it does if it were to get answered early. I like it after like two to three activations but its worth mentioning that if it were to walk into a naturalize right away it could feel awkward.

I am not going to walk through any changes right this second but it might be something simple like swapping Vexilus Praetor out for another Open the Armory or Fighter Class. I probably want another basic or two as well to support a bigger plan for Bitterhorn early as well.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 9 months ago

I was working on another deck and it occurred to me that there are a few sweepers that might leave me with a big body to mutate onto. The wrath plus big body is sort of appealing as it lets me potentially shift to commander damage focused the next turn while leaving the current board lighter. The last few times I played this deck the good large body threats to mutate onto have felt a little light to try closing out the game.
  • Wakening Sun's Avatar - He is expensive but his size is good and it should mostly clear the other creatures out. It has some in common with the Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off which I have enjoyed but it also combines the creature and wrath into one even if it lacks vigilance I like the package deal of getting a sweep and a body.
  • Sunfall - I really can't abuse most of my creatures when they die so an exile sweep seems appealing. The phyrexian token also seems like it could get big easily and some of my own token production could help it be larger.
  • Phyrexian Rebirth - Similar to Sunfall but probably just mostly worse given that the exile is a plus for me. Technically to get to the token its one less mana but I like the flexibility of Sunfall more.
I also did a little poking to see if there were more vigilant creatures with good power that I am not running. I did see a few that were...... less popularly played like say Kalemne's Captain but honestly I just don't see much else in the vigilant creatures stack that I don't already have that would have a good rate of damage output.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Pramikon, Sky RampartSunfall With this change I am boosting up my sweeper count and I think as I boost my sweepers the benefit of some of these defense only mechanics get a little worse. I have had some good success in the past with Sky Rampart but its not something I mutate onto and with this shift I wanted more game ending mutate targets and sweepers.
  • Vexilus PraetorWakening Sun's Avatar I just don't have enough threats that can standalone support my commander closing out the game right now for Praetor. Its ironic as I add two more effects that could be game ending mutate targets but for now I have to split ways with it. I didn't think about how several of my effects to end the game enchant or target my commander to boost it bigger.
  • Serum VisionsUmezawa's Jitte Serum is fine, its just not amazing. I wanted to boost my equipment count up and while I had been thinking about more draw I had issues with card draw equipment in that they seemed to contest with the early game Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus tutor. I also have issues having creatures on board fast enough to always be able to take advantage of an opening hand or early tutor for something like Mask of Memory which would force me to instead play something like Sword of Fire and Ice or Sword of Forge and Frontier instead. Jitte can provide a lot of utility between removal and voltron but it also tends to get targeted with removal a bit heavier. I want to at least test out Jitte in here as its always a bit of a question of how long it lives. My commander can rez it back into play though and maybe that matters enough to make it more interesting and that is part of why I want to test it out.
  • GambleFighter Class Just boosting up my equipment tutor a bit more. I haven't really been impressed with Gamble in that its car disadvantage. I had included it as a means of getting my gideon emblem going but its been underwhelming if I find him. I have been impressed with early game tutor and play Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus pattern so I really just wanted more tutors for it as well as more equipment to diversify for later game plays. I opted for Fighter Class over Open the Armory mostly just because the potential for level 3 fighter class seems interesting to me as far as some surprise removal over repeated tutoring. Generally speaking tutors get weaker on repeat so going for the option of additional utility over easier reuse.
  • Tyrite SanctumSnow-Covered Island I just haven't been using this utility land and I wanted a little more basic land to the deck.
Maintaining card advantage over time has still been a bit tough. Its possible that I should add some more continuous draw with something like Tome of Legends or something. It seems really weird to even consider that while playing blue. I might dig a bit more because it would be nice to have some more continuous card advantage. I also think I need to get my hands on Rivendell as that effect seems useful.
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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 7 months ago

Have you thought about playing Leori, Sparktouched Hunter and a few more chads instead? Vigilance is somewhat better than first strike although I'm not sure it does enough otherwise.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 7 months ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
7 months ago
Have you thought about playing Leori, Sparktouched Hunter and a few more chads instead? Vigilance is somewhat better than first strike although I'm not sure it does enough otherwise.
I do think that Leori could be used for something similar I just don't know that I would lean into a Gideon strategy especially one with the suicide extra turns for them. I think its probably a lot more natural to just go with other walkers maybe mixed with some 5cmc extra turns. I also dobut that Leori goes voltron quite as naturally. You might still be able to do it with something like Blackblade Reforged but I don't think I would make it my primary plan with that commander.

In short, I think Leori could be something adjacent but I definitely wouldn't just slot it in as the commander. I feel like Gideon's don't benefit nearly as much from Leori as other walkers would. I think the deck composition and wincons likely would look very different as well. Not much of my current list feels like generic planeswalker help so much as it feels like I have customized a lot of it for my commander and its ability to reuse assets.

I do have a bunch of deck changes I need to post here which I have been somewhat lazy about doing. I increased my tutors for Field of the Dead and added some monarch stuff back in as well as The One Ring and Palantír of Orthanc. I need to go through and document these changes but I have been a bit lazy and slow to do so. Some of it is also me trying to work through some of the last changes I want to make as well though. Its worth mentioning that Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus mixed with the equipment tutors has been putting in some absolute work for me so far. I really like when I can use a cheap draw card early into Bitterthorn and mutate my commander onto the germ for a flying land fetcher plus some cantrip.

Well, thats all for now. I will try doing updates for this list sometime soon. My sweepers are feeling fairly good after the last set of changes and I really just wanted to buff up my token chump blockers capability.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 7 months ago

Ok, after posting yesterday I got off my ass to figure out the changes for my list. I will say that I think a number of these changes are a bit controversial but I want to test them out rather than me having full confidence in them. Luminarch Ascension and Palantir of Orthanc are the two that I question the most just because my experience with Luminarch in the past is that it gets answered all the time after getting you fist punched a bunch but with my commander's ability to recast it and how I already focus so much on defense it seems like it should be tested. Palantir of Orthanc on the other hand is weird because well, my curve is sort of low and zeroing opponents life totals isn't normally my gameplan so we will see how often its just milling me and how often its drawing me cards.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Thalia's LancersThe One Ring lancers do get me some key pieces but being a human with kind of poor stats makes it a not great time sink for me. I am just going to spin up some better draw and see if I miss it.
  • Sun TitanArchon of Coronation Sun Titan has the advantage of being a big creature with vigilance but I don't really need its rez given my commander covers most of my needs on that front it can be useful for land rezing which my commander can't but shy of that its something I would rather have some monarch support for instead.
  • Umezawa's JittePalantir of Orthanc I do still think that Jitte "can work" but the issue is that I generally need surplus creatures to attack for me each turn which is hard to do currently. I focus a lot of my deck on defending walkers so it can be hard to shift to attacking sometimes. I think Palantir of Orthanc can be useful in either mode of drawing or milling but I really want to see it function more as draw. I need to test it out and see how it functions but it might be a hard sell given that this deck doesn't put a lot of total pressure on life totals. Testing will see.
  • Chaos WarpPath to Exile I wanted to bolster my cheap interaction over having more wide purpose options. I would say this is currently a meta call because there is a number of creature based strategies that like to ignore boardstates to push for kills.
  • Glorious EndSacred Mesa I freaking LOVE Glorious End. This said, its the hardest of my suicide plays to capitalize on, I can't really reuse it, and its really hard to commit to using it. I came to the conclusion though that I wanted to pair it down even though I think its the most fun one to utilize its a lot harder to use it proactively and in a number of cases where I want to use it its uncertain if I will die or not if I do use it. Sacred Mesa is playing off the back of how well Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus has been playing for me for juicing up my mana. It gives a bunch of blockers and I want to see how it plays in general.
  • Prismari CommandExpedition Map prismari wasn't ever something I was super excited to see it was just ok. I really wanted to see more of my Field of the Dead though and so it seemed like a good enough reason to push for the map.
  • Savor the MomentLuminarch Ascension overall my ramp plan has been a lot better since adding Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus and while I do still like Savor and think that it plays well with some of the vigilant threats I started realizing that I have potentially 5 extra turns in the deck and wanted to pair that back a little. Even though 4 of them are suicide turns I just wanted to trim it a little because I think chaining turns is kind of lame. Luminarch is sort of controversial to me because its a "punch me" target that can also pull in some Seedborn Muse level of hate on itself. I can recur it with my commander though and I am already putting up heavy defenses on average so I want to test it here because it feels like something that if it works I would be happy as it just hits on a lot of elements I want.
  • Sweltering SunsThe Eternal Wanderer swapping a sweeper around. I did think that Suns was decent but the wanderer just looks like all of its abilities are relevant for this deck and its ability to limit attackers is really good too. I saw someone else run it recently and I think its an absolute beating.
  • Gideon, Ally of ZendikarCourt of Grace I love having a bunch of Gideons but this one costs a little more and its abilities are a little less relevant. I am adding a little more monarch draw to the deck and I like the tokens it potentially makes me as well.
  • Gemstone CavernsTolaria West more support for Field of the Dead. I really didn't need gemstone in this deck anyways.
  • Mystic SanctuaryKher Keep I really wasn't using the sanctuary and I needed more token gen.
I am still sort of considering cutting Mystic Remora as there have been a bunch of decks that it doesn't line up well against and the decks that its good against tend to be faster and more competitive than what I am playing and due to my lack of interaction I tend to not be able to really compete against them.

My IRL list also currently has Thespian's Stage + Rivendell in the landbase for now but I have no idea what I cut for them so I guess I will just call them in for testing for now and if I really like them I will add them later.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 7 months ago

Just thought I would chime in that the new changes have been fairly well met so far. The sweeper and blocker density feels better as far as running monarch. Monarch also competes with my walkers as far as attackers go so I have enjoyed having access to the extra draw and split attention of its effect. Its possible I consider a third card with monarch in the future but I like the two I included a lot more than the options remaining.

Palantir of Orthanc - its showing so far wasn't that impressive but it is resource gen. I drew it later in the game though so that is worth mentioning but also my curve is really low with this deck so even if I get an option to mill like 5 cards its not going to do that much on average plus I am a commander voltron deck in the end meaning my chip damage isn't great. I am going to test a bit more but I was really hoping to like this card here but am unsure so far.

Sacred Mesa - It has shown up in my hand a few times and I did cast it once into an opposing Awakening but it had issues going up against an opposing Noxious Ghoul zombie deck so I have had some mixed results. I need to test it a bit more but I was a little so so.

Luminarch Ascension - I played it and it got to the counters and I drowned my table in angels. It was a bit unfair as it was a 3 player game so there are less people to answer it but its more or less how I expected. Its an answer me or die kind of thing after all.

The Eternal Wanderer - It was really solid for me but I will say I did have to jump through some hoops to set up my commander as a flying defender before I cast it assuming I wanted it to live. If it lives a turn it just goes to town on being disruptive though.

The land changes were fairly good too. I did manage to get my Field of the Dead a little more consistently due to the changes and even Kher Keep was fairly useful for chump blockers. I did get to questioning if there would be any validity in maybe Divine Visitation just for some better tokens but I think I still don't have quite the consistency to back that.

No real changes for now. I am enjoying the deck as a whole. Its a bit unfortunate that it feels like the all in chads idea feels a little dumbed down. I might bring back a tutor somewhere for walkers because I do feel like its a bit too hard to get to them right now but all of them have felt sort of clunky. My deck feels a lot less clunky now though so maybe with some of the awkward cards I could swap for a chad tutor.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 6 months ago

Ok, I have been pushing TOOOOOO hard on making everything Vadrok friendly but lately I will say I have enjoyed my sweeper package a bit more and my token angle is feeling a little bit better as a whole. I was doing some thinking though and I think with all of the success I have had with Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus and the fact that I am running a bunch of fetchlands that I am going to shift and try out some landfall stuff. Most of the things I am trying aren't going to be rez things with Vodrok but I think they do a lot of efficient things.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Fog BankEmeria Angel Some of my issue with Fog Bank is that it can't ever go on the offense and it sucks as a mutate target. It does its job ok but as I get other defenses online it tends to not stack all that well with a number of the other defenses.
  • Crackling DrakeFelidar Retreat Crackling Drake has always just been..... ok. Its not good draw, its usually fairly obvious and still a 2-3 turn clock as a commander play. It just feels kind of meh as a whole for me so far. I want to give Felidar a chance as its really kind of like another Field of the Dead and it also has a pivot to offense plan that seems really good.
  • Velomachus LoreholdSkyline Despot I wanted to push a little harder on monarch and the dragon was the next card I wanted to try out. I do overall really like Velomachus but the problem is really that a lot of the things he finds are either extra turns or wraths and too often he just feels like he has too much setup required.
  • Palantir of OrthancValakut Exploration just moving some card advantage around a bit. Palantir looks like a cool effect but I think its going to fit better into a big creature rez strategy better than it does my list here where commander damage tends to be my wincon.
  • Mystic RemoraDrift of Phantasms Remora just hasn't been the card for this deck. I think its a great card in the right meta but this deck isn't fast enough to play in most of the metas that remora should be played in. Drift is mostly a plan for gideon emblem tutoring but I also have other really useful three drops like tutoring Out of Time.
  • Sacred MesaNesting Dragon bringing up the landfall stuff again. Sacred Mesa has mostly been a miss for me even with my ramp stuff it just takes too much resources to make it run. I like that the dragon leaves tokens that flip up to better threats in a wrath so that should be interesting.
  • The Restoration of Eiganjo // Architect of RestorationSearch for Glory with the tutors for Bitterhorn, Nissa's Animus I haven't found restoration to be as important anymore. I often find it kind of slow and clunky when drawn later because of my consistancy tutoring for Bitterhorn. I also wanted more tutors to get my Gideon plan online.
Been sick lately so no magic for me. Hopefully I can stop traveling and getting sick so I can get more games in. Jeska's Will is on my watchlist right now and might go soon as I have had it in hand too many times when I don't have a good chance to cast my commander.
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