[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

[cryogen]

I'll pass, thank you very much. But hey, they finally listened to me and unbanned Gifts, so there's that.

Technically, it was a group other than the RC that unbanned Gifts.

Whatever, I'm still claiming credit. In other news, I bought a thing.

[Rumpy5897]

Someone took pretty much exactly the same points as my UB-related doom and gloom raised earlier, worded them nicely, and chucked them at Maro. In turn, Maro responded in complete contradiction to our gut feeling, pointing to actual data they're gathering on the subject to back himself up. Maybe this is not just a short term profiteering flash in the pan after all?

[TheGildedGoose]

Right, because there are infinite IPs to mine that everyone equally loves.

Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

To be clear, I've long accepted that the game is no longer for me, and that I am a tagger along, like a battered spouse.

[Dragonlover]

See here's the thing - I have what I'm calling a theory but is more an untestable hypothesis, that somewhere between 2030 and 2035 they're gonna run out of Magic-appropriate IP's to do a full UB set of, and will massively wind down, if not completely stop the full sets. Secret Lairs will still be a thing cause there's be plenty of stuff knocking about you can do 5 cards for especially if you're just doing reskins, but once you do Star Wars and/or Star Trek, maybe get DC, a couple more 40K/Age of Sigmar sets, and run out of Marvel, whats left? A couple of animes are probably big enough both in amount of media and cultural weight (DBZ comes to mind), book wise you've got Brandon Sanderson but all the other long running fantasy series are ancient without LotR's cachet. Could probably do Dune?

Point is, regardless of if the growth is sustainable, the resources to pull from simply aren't, especially if they try and sustain the 3/3 split every year. UB sets will be forced to come to an end in the fullness of time, and honestly we won't know the full impact of the concept until probably five years after that point.

Personally, I put about as much weight on a UB set as I do a UW set - it's all just mana costs and text boxes, and if a card works for my deck I really don't care if it's got a picture of Urza or a picture of Iron Man on it. However if you're like Goose and the games not for you any more, I really do urge you to rip the bandaid off, I had to do the same thing with 40K last year and I'm happier for it. Just don't completely sell up unless you really have to, every returning player has regretted that and you never know what the future holds.

Dragonlover

[TheGildedGoose]

However if you're like Goose and the games not for you any more, I really do urge you to rip the bandaid off...

Perhaps I misspoke. The flavor and uh, artistic integrity (for lack of a better term) of the game is not for me anymore. Mechanically I'm just as active a brewer as ever. It's just sad closing that part of the game off from myself.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

Speaking of UB, on a more light-hearted note, my siblings got into MtG and bought a couple of Final Fantasy Commander decks, specifically Limit Break (Final Fantasy 7) and Counter Blitz (Final Fantasy 10).

Which is all fine and dandy, I get all the Commander matches I could possibly hope for.

But now more often than not this is what's facing me across the board:
A Cloud Strife armed to the gills and an enormously swole Tidus with +1/+1 counters coming out his ears.

Meanwhile my board is Yarok the Desecrated with a walking mushroom and a pitcher-plant.

Very humbling to have two beginners with unaltered Commander decks consistently hand me my own seared rump steak on a platter and shove my own tokens down my throat. Currently games usually involve getting rid of me first before turning on each other. I'm gonna need to figure out how to make them go at each other instead of me.

[Hermes_]

back on the 29th/30th some one stole my scooter,luckily, my apartment complex has cameras,and it was caught on camera.

[cryogen]

I quit playing like 3 or 4 years ago when the UB had just started (for reasons not at all related to UB). But every time I would think about wanting to get back into the game I would see the latest UB product and want to throw up in my mouth a little, and the more and more I saw, the less desire I had.

Totally anecdotal evidence of course and there people who had the exact opposite reaction I'm sure.

[cheonice]

I quit playing like 3 or 4 years ago when the UB had just started (for reasons not at all related to UB). But every time I would think about wanting to get back into the game I would see the latest UB product and want to throw up in my mouth a little, and the more and more I saw, the less desire I had.

Totally anecdotal evidence of course and there people who had the exact opposite reaction I'm sure.

I get better at ignoring stuff. I had like 3 ir 5 wants from FF, but over 40 from Edge. We'll see, if that changes when they hit a franchise I adore.

[5colorsrainbow]

Maybe this is not just a short term profiteering flash in the pan after all?

While Wizards/Hasbro are certainly looking at profits most of all, I think its kinda clear that UB where just more then that with how fast they now been integrated. From reading between the lines a lot of people* working at wizards seemed really unsure about (to even dislike) UB and they didn't think it would be as popular as they are, but seemly UB have been a runaway hit that Wizards didn't except or planned.

Partially I think Maros note about there being a hump new players have to get over to learn how to play is a big one. I think we all know that glazed eye look people get when your trying to explain magic to them, I can see how a IP the person is already invested in (and likely paid a video game amount for a deck) would be a way to help them over that hump, partially as the cards are meant to flavory reflect what the IP is mean to do in game terms.

*Maro basically said he wasn't very onboard with UB himself until they got the Marval rights and he saw how other UB drawing in more players.

This also something Magics own lore can not do as well, most people do not know the lore before learning to play and Magics lore has its own glazed eye moments for people to get into.

That said, from an investing interview Tarkir Dragonstorms is on track to be the best selling non-UB standard set and despite how people said they refuse to play due to flavor, Aetherdrift is selling higher better they predicted. So UW are doing great and depending on how things shake out likely are bringing in just as much if not more profits as UB.

[Hermes_]

This also something Magics own lore can not do as well, most people do not know the lore before learning to play and Magics lore has its own glazed eye moments for people to get into.

The joke of "There's lore?" exist for a reason

[Rumpy5897]

That said, from an investing interview Tarkir Dragonstorms is on track to be the best selling non-UB standard set and despite how people said they refuse to play due to flavor, Aetherdrift is selling higher better they predicted. So UW are doing great and depending on how things shake out likely are bringing in just as much if not more profits as UB.

UW sets feel a bit more pushed than UB, perhaps in a conscious attempt to further onboard new recruits. Gotta buy more cards to stay relevant in standard. Another layer to keep getting them hooked, I guess.

[Guardman]

That said, from an investing interview Tarkir Dragonstorms is on track to be the best selling non-UB standard set and despite how people said they refuse to play due to flavor, Aetherdrift is selling higher better they predicted. So UW are doing great and depending on how things shake out likely are bringing in just as much if not more profits as UB.

UW sets feel a bit more pushed than UB, perhaps in a conscious attempt to further onboard new recruits. Gotta buy more cards to stay relevant in standard. Another layer to keep getting them hooked, I guess.

MaRo actually addressed this on his blog. UW and certain UB like FF are going to be at a higher complexity (which given how they design usually means power level). While UB like Spider-Man are designed for a lower complexity. How they decide this is that most new players coming to magic via Spider-Man aren't going to used to playing complex games, so they want it simpler. On the other hand, if you are into FF, you are probably into complex game systems and don't mind (or even enjoy) finding complex interactions and such. In that case they go for higher complexity.

[Rumpy5897]

I was talking power rather than complexity. You ride in via FF, Spider-Man or whatever, and then because there are more juicy cards in other sets you're forced to shell out more money to be relevant, and next thing you know you're writing update posts to yourself about an EDH deck you've been maintaining for four years

[5colorsrainbow]

UW sets feel a bit more pushed than UB, perhaps in a conscious attempt to further onboard new recruits. Gotta buy more cards to stay relevant in standard. Another layer to keep getting them hooked, I guess.

Standard in general is just getting more pushed, they have very much decided to just push the gas to it and ban stuff as needed.

That said Maro had said they are trying to match in-universe sets with UB sets best they can. LOTR and WOE where meant to tie together (since they are similar kinds of sub-fantasy) and I wouldn't be shocked if they planned Avatar and Tarkir together.

MaRo actually addressed this on his blog. UW and certain UB like FF are going to be at a higher complexity (which given how they design usually means power level). While UB like Spider-Man are designed for a lower complexity. How they decide this is that most new players coming to magic via Spider-Man aren't going to used to playing complex games, so they want it simpler. On the other hand, if you are into FF, you are probably into complex game systems and don't mind (or even enjoy) finding complex interactions and such. In that case they go for higher complexity.

Spinning off of this, I think this is a reason the FF is doing so well and better than LOTR did. The people who would be into FF and video games in general are more likely to get into a card game than movie/book fans.

[Dragonlover]

I also enjoy the fact UB sets have Sagas and the Hero type to tie them together mechanically across sets. Helps give them that extra bit of mechanical weight that doesn't feel forced.

Dragonlover

[materpillar]

Got my Nemesis: Retaliation in the mail this past week. Got one game in where I was ripped apart by aliens after betraying my friend. Super pumped to play some more.

Anyone else ever played any of the Nemesis board games?

[Lifeless]

Nice! I got mine last week too. I've never played any of the games before so I've been slowly reading the rules and getting the box components organized. Hope to get it on the table on Friday.

[materpillar]

Nice! I got mine last week too. I've never played any of the games before so I've been slowly reading the rules and getting the box components organized. Hope to get it on the table on Friday.

I've played a lot of the original Nemesis (20+ times). I'm a pretty big fan. Learning it for the first time is pretty rough but the game isn't actually all that complicated to play once you've gotten a few reps in. Definitely an event game and not a strategy one though. The fun is watching your friends get mauled by aliens not really strategizing your way out of problems.

[DirkGently]

If anyone's wondering why my GBU article was late, I was on vacation in Peru/Costa Rica. But it's up now!

[TheAmericanSpirit]

If anyone's wondering why my GBU article was late, I was on vacation in Peru/Costa Rica. But it's up now!

I'm glad they cut down on main set legends, that must be great for article length. UB is a better home for the narrative terminal illness of "if everyone's super, no one is" anyway.

That being said, may God save you from Spiderman. That %$#% has legends at COMMON.

[5colorsrainbow]

That %$#% has legends at COMMON.

Those seem to only be in the starter decks, there was even recently a talk on Maro's blog where they are playing with not as well known UB characters showing up at lower rarities but as non-legends stand in cards like Guy in the Chair being a card for Ganke Lee.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

That %$#% has legends at COMMON.

Those seem to only be in the starter decks, there was even recently a talk on Maro's blog where they are playing with not as well known UB characters showing up at lower rarities but as non-legends stand in cards like Guy in the Chair being a card for Ganke Lee.

That's great news. Personally I would prefer to go back to 2011 levels of legends/set at this point. We have so many trash uncommon legends for seemingly little reason. In EOE there's a dimir legend that is just Thirst for Knowledge|mrd on a 2/2 deathtouch or some such thing and who exactly wants to play that?

Edit: this is the guy Alpharael, Dreaming Acolyte. What did this guy do to go down in history? I can get his best trick on mirrodin in a %$#% tube!

[TheGildedGoose]

What did this guy do to go down in history? I can get his best trick on mirrodin in a %$#% tube!

Dude doesn't even draw three cards.

[Hermes_]

Almost ready to paint, just need to put the turret together

SPOILER

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