Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[NZB2323]

I didn't get a Kavu commander from this set but I did get one hell of a cleric lord in shadow-rite priest. Sacrificing Arena Rector or Academy Rector for Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, Skemfar Shadowsage, Twilight Prophet, or Mikaeus, the Unhallowed sounds great.

[Crazy Monkey]

I feel like Rasputin, the Oneiromancer Is purpose build for Intruder Alarm stuff, but needing haste is difficult. It works to both make mana or knights.

Relic of Legends Is one of the best mana producers that I have seen. Being able to tap itself, plus your commander if you playing something less focused on activated abilities is a powerful floor. Throw this in something legendary heavy and it's massive. It's Earthcraft in nongreen. I suspect that the recent printing of backgrounds may have tipped to ability to only use creatures, although it's always been a bit weird that I could tap Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh for Honor-Worn Shaku.

[Venedrex]

Well we know what each of the Warhammer face commanders do. Spoiler alert: Wizard's doesn't like Necrons very much lol. I think the face commander for the Necron deck is the worst face commander I've seen since, Sevinne, the Chronoclasm, and he's probably still better actually. I've never explored Warhammer much, but just from a power level perspective I wish I could've been in the room when they were designing the silent king to be like, *cough* *AND LIFELINK* And PUT IT ONTO THE BATTLEFIELD NOT THE HAND* *COUGH* just for all the poor Warhammer fans.

The most hilarious part about it to me is that they made the mono-color commander the weakest... Really? Like if your going to make a bad commander, (which you shouldn't anyway) at least have the decency to make it the one with access to more than one color of mana. I just hope the rest of the deck is strong. Oh, and the cherry on top, the Silent King is an artifact creature, which while great design 100%, also makes him vulnerable to naturalize and vandalblast. So again, WHY DOES HE HAVE THE WORST ABILITY ON AN ATTACK TRIGGER, when he has so many bloody weaknesses compared to the other commanders.

[RedCheese]

Zombie enjoyers got the shaft

And Nekron fans also got the shaft. That got to be the worst and most boring face commander ever. And is really insulting when the face commander is an iconic character from Warhammer.

[DirkGently]

Thousand-Year Elixir + Eldrazi Displacer is infinite as long as you have 3 opponents right?

Add Amulet of Vigor and then yes. And ofc it still doesn't do anything without some kind of trigger when it etbs or something (other than give opponents infinite goblins).

Yeah Rasputin is crap. Radha is also crap (though I did call a RG uncommon domain commander). silverback elder seems pretty insane, as does the cleric lord although clerics aren't a super supported type.

Glad to see they're playing it very safe with 40k so far.

[Hawk]

I am floored that the black lord of the cycle is clerics (Shadow-Rite Priest instead of Zombies, Phyrexians, or Vampires. I thought vampires was a long shot actually (Dominarian vampires tend to be bigger, meatier, and airborne unlike the vamps of Innistrad, Ixalan, and Zendikar) but was so convinced that Zombies was a shoe-in. The lord is good and a great add to B/x cleric decks for sure although sorta terrible in Shadowborn Apostle.dec, I'm just shocked.

[NZB2323]

I am floored that the black lord of the cycle is clerics (Shadow-Rite Priest instead of Zombies, Phyrexians, or Vampires. I thought vampires was a long shot actually (Dominarian vampires tend to be bigger, meatier, and airborne unlike the vamps of Innistrad, Ixalan, and Zendikar) but was so convinced that Zombies was a shoe-in. The lord is good and a great add to B/x cleric decks for sure although sorta terrible in Shadowborn Apostle.dec, I'm just shocked.

I don't know why you would be shocked. Dominaria doesn't have any vampire lords but Dominaria gave us Edgewalker, Atalya, Samite Master, Rotlung Reanimator, Mother of Runes, Battlefield Medic, Daunting Defender, Soul Warden, Cabal Archon, Ancestor's Prophet, Doubtless One, Vile Deacon, Whipgrass Entangler, Akroma's Devoted, Profane Prayers, Misery Charm, Daru Spiritualist, and Liliana, Heretical Healer // Liliana, Defiant Necromancer and Yawgmoth, Thran Physician may not have come from a set based in Dominaria, but that's where they're from.

And now we got baru, wurmspeaker as a wurm lord, but you can't play Gruul or Selesnya Wurms with him, but I guess all wurms on Dominaria are green.

Maybe there's still hope I'll get a Kavu commander.

[Mookie]

More stuff!

• Ertai Resurrected looks okay as a value creature - flash is good, but giving your opponents a card back is bad. Very flexible, at least... which I guess is necessary when you have two extra hands?
• Ancient Silverback is an incredibly flexible Beast Whisperer effect. Naturalize // Rampant Growth // Feed the Clan gives multiple relevant options. Triple green makes it a bit tough to splash though.
• Shadow Rite Priest looks like a solid lord for Cleric tribal. I'll echo the confusion re: it being for Clerics instead of Zombies though - it's not entirely new for there to be Cleric tribal on Dominaria, but most of the cycles have been focused on Zombies in the past. Still, given how much more support there is for Zombies already, I won't complain about Clerics getting some love.
• Academy Loremaster is an interesting group hug // stax option. Could be good if you're running a lot of instant / flash stuff?
• Aether Channeler looks like the best Man-o'-War variant of all time, barring the niche case of wanting to bounce itself to put counters on Animar, Soul of Elements (for which Shrieking Drake gets the nod). Lots of flexibility, and getting a card is never bad.
• Relic of Legends is fine. I'm not convinced it's that much better than Honor-Worn Shaku - tapping for colored mana is good, but you can't tap planeswalkers or legendary artifacts / enchantments. Still a somewhat niche effect outside dedicated legend-focused decks.
• Contaminated Aquifer (and the other members of its cycle) are much appreciated as additional options for 'basic land type matters' cards. Also an obligatory enabler for domain in limited.
• Jodah, the Unifier is nonsense. Still, I'll never complain about cascaaaaade, legendary or otherwise.
• Meria, Scholar of Antiquity is an interesting option for artifact-based decks in Gruul. Doesn't work with tokens (so no Dockside Extortionist shenanigans), but still seems potent. Maybe voltron-based with equipment? Hmmm...
• Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator is a cheap looter / recursion option. Probably doesn't make the cut, but I like the design.
• Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim is interesting as another Cruel Celebrant // Soul Warden variant. I'm not sure how it plays compared to the other options, but deathtouch is a very relevant ability.
• The Mana Rig is weird. What deck is running both lots of multicolored spells and wants colorless mana to spend on artifacts? I guess you're more likely to be using it on activated abilities (like the ones on The Mana Rig itself). I do like the powerstone tokens though, and I hope they show up on more cards than just this and Karn, Living Legacy.

[tstorm823]

Relic of Legends Is one of the best mana producers that I have seen... It's Earthcraft in nongreen.

Yeah, Jeskai Ascendancy is into this mana rock. It might be the best enabler for that card in this format for specifically jeskai colored decks.

[Dunadain]

I think Ertai Resurrected is pretty sick tbh. It's the best Mystic Snake that's not simic, maybe even better since he's versatile.

[Gamazson]

Relic of Legends Is one of the best mana producers that I have seen... It's Earthcraft in nongreen.

Yeah, Jeskai Ascendancy is into this mana rock. It might be the best enabler for that card in this format for specifically jeskai colored decks.

Traxos, Scourge of Kroog and some 1 cmc artifacts would enjoy this as well.

[ConstantMists]

[*]The Mana Rig is weird. What deck is running both lots of multicolored spells and wants colorless mana to spend on artifacts? I guess you're more likely to be using it on activated abilities (like the ones on The Mana Rig itself). I do like the powerstone tokens though, and I hope they show up on more cards than just this and Karn, Living Legacy.
[/list]

The powerstone tokens can't be used to cast non-artifact spells, but they can be used to activate all sorts of mana sink abilities. Need some mana for firebreathing type abilities, we got you covered. Want to spread a little Pestilence, powerstone tokens are there for you. All sorts of interesting things can be done with them.

[DirkGently]

The powerstone tokens can't be used to cast non-artifact spells, but they can be used to activate all sorts of mana sink abilities. Need some mana for firebreathing type abilities, we got you covered. Want to spread a little Pestilence, powerstone tokens are there for you. All sorts of interesting things can be done with them.

Well its colorless mana, so you are pretty restricted in which abilities you can activate (pestilence and firebreathing being excluded ofc).

[folding_music]

this is probably only quasi-relevant to the game but I'm not excited about them blowing reasonable generic land names on tap duals; these ones don't even have a gimmick like the cycling ones, the snow-covered ones... with the already ludicrous lifespan of this game I feel like the well of names is already full enough of dust without doing this. they should be like Capashen this and Balduvian that and Otarian, etc. AND they have the normal white good! black bad! feel to them I thought they were done with... Radiant Grove Sacred Peaks CONTAMINATED AQUIFER honestly I fire the person in charge of these

edit: I really wanna like Enlist and I think the secret text on it is "give me double strike". wanna try it with Felhide Spiritbinder? Depala? I guess the point is to use that new samite healer and Radha and keep their abilities safe, sort of like a new Banding, but they built in so many restrictive clauses... if it was just "Enlist -- Tap another untapped creature you control: This gets +X/+0 u.e.o.t. where X is the tapped creature's power," there'd be many more ways to have fun with it and I wouldn't care that it lets you get two servings from a vigilance guy or one you just summoned and I doubt it'd be too powerful based on the efficiency of the creatures that are getting it. Nonetheless it's exciting to see an ability with text that has rarely appeared on a card before now there's so much excess.

[Serenade]

I assume these tap duals will be in precons until the end of time.

[5colorsrainbow]

Yeah if a card has a very generic name (even more so lands) it's likey wotc is hoping to reprint it in the future since they can set them on any plane.

[Dunadain]

this is probably only quasi-relevant to the game but I'm not excited about them blowing reasonable generic land names on tap duals; these ones don't even have a gimmick like the cycling ones, the snow-covered ones... with the already ludicrous lifespan of this game I feel like the well of names is already full enough of dust without doing this. they should be like Capashen this and Balduvian that and Otarian, etc. AND they have the normal white good! black bad! feel to them I thought they were done with... Radiant Grove Sacred Peaks CONTAMINATED AQUIFER honestly I fire the person in charge of these

Hard disagree, generic names should be used on generic cards.

These land aren't even that bad and I hope they get frequent reprints (obligatory reprint fetches WOTC you cowards).

Also, the name economy issue isn't nearly as big a deal as people think, it's reasonable to talk about running out of one name words but there are exponentially more names for 2 and 3 word names such that they're really never going to run out.

Also, just because black isn't bad doesn't mean the color isn't thematically tied to corruption and decay (neither of which are inherently bad) Contaminated Aquifer is a great name, I didn't even have to look at the card to know that it is a dimir land, if the name of the card all on its own lets you what a card is, I think that's a testament to a great name (hello iconic cards such as Lightning Bolt and Counterspell).

Finally, wanting somebody to lose their job over this?? Really??

Having finished typing this out I'm beginning to realize the post was probably rage bait and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker, but oh well.

[kirkusjones]

I think Ertai Resurrected is pretty sick tbh. It's the best Mystic Snake that's not simic, maybe even better since he's versatile.

I'm excited to test Ertai, despite the fact that his disproportionately tiny head annoys me.

[PrimevalCommander]

I need a Relic of Legends for Kalamax, the Stormsire like yesterday. I already have Cultivator's Caravan for tapping when I can't get into combat, and allows tapping with haste. I always forget the Honor-Worn Shaku as soon as I look away from it, and the other two add colored mana, which I like. It will eat into my 2 cmc ramp for getting K-max down turn 3, but the redundancy for getting him tapped when the board getts cluttered is something I need, probably only this one more mana rock and I'm satisfied. That gives me 2 lands and 2 rocks that do it, with a tutor for the lands. Probably a good vehicle I could use to tap him, but ramp is something I already need, so I don't need to dedicate other slot to tap-synergies. May pick up a couple more for my commanders that just sit there for abilities, like Sefris of the Hidden Ways and Talrand, Sky Summoner. Makes those commanders a touch more useful than battlefield decorations.

Defiler of Instinct will get a try in my brand new Zurzoth, Chaos Rider burn deck. Probably the only Defilier I actively want right now.

[folding_music]

Hard disagree, generic names should be used on generic cards.
These land aren't even that bad and I hope they get frequent reprints (obligatory reprint fetches WOTC you cowards).
Also, the name economy issue isn't nearly as big a deal as people think, it's reasonable to talk about running out of one name words but there are exponentially more names for 2 and 3 word names such that they're really never going to run out.
Also, just because black isn't bad doesn't mean the color isn't thematically tied to corruption and decay (neither of which are inherently bad) Contaminated Aquifer is a great name, I didn't even have to look at the card to know that it is a dimir land, if the name of the card all on its own lets you what a card is, I think that's a testament to a great name (hello iconic cards such as Lightning Bolt and Counterspell).
Finally, wanting somebody to lose their job over this?? Really??
Having finished typing this out I'm beginning to realize the post was probably rage bait and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker, but oh well.

It's okay to say you don't think the lands are that bad, or that you'd accept gradually worse synonymous names for the same ideas over and over, or that a negative trend in naming black mana stuff doesn't matter because you don't think corruption/contamination has negative connotations, lol, or that there's no difference between original set archetypical spells and a cycle of just good enough lands or that people should be paid well for designing just good enough cards, but I don't agree.

edit: I think Dom United is markedly worse than several custom sets I've seen along the same lines... and not just worse but more hero-worshippy as well.

[Cyberium]

Dominaria #2 is no where as interesting as #1. It's unfortunate, but I'm not going to get a box this time.

[Mookie]

I'm lower on Dominaria United than I was on the original Dominaria, but it's also an extremely high bar to be held to - DOM was a fantastic set, and one of my favorites of all time. That said, I do think part of that is structural. In the first set, historic meant that there was a bunch of support for both legends and artifacts, both of which are major components of EDH. On the flip side, domain being a big theme in DMU means there is a lot of support for 5C decks... but there are significantly fewer options for monocolor / 2C decks. The off-color kicker cycles in particular are a miss for EDH due to color identity rules - there are decks where I could myself running cards like Vodalian Mindsinger and Stronghold Arena, but those slots are much more competitive in 3C decks.

...looking at the cards in DOM that see play, there were a few format all-stars like Blackblade Reforged and Helm of the Host, but I would say that its biggest contribution was in the command zone. Tatyova, Benthic Druid, Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle... lots of incredibly powerful and popular commanders. However, that was also during a time when having that many legendary creatures in a set was still somewhat a novelty. The legends in DMU are facing a lot more competition, so it may be more difficult for them to make an impact. That said, I will call out the fact that more of the legends this time around are multicolor, which generally see more play - last time around, there were two cycles of monocolor legends and one multicolor legend cycle at uncommon, while this time has two multicolor cycles instead.

[DirkGently]

I'm not a big fan of either dominaria set.

Dominaria 1 had a few cards I really like, like the cool equipment and some of the sagas, but in terms of commanders it introduced a lot that I despise. Muldrotha? Lame. Jodah? Please don't. Jhoira? It's gonna be a bad game. Tatyova? ew. Teshar? Yuck. Way too many "kill on sight or lose the game" commanders to be forgivable for a single set. And as far as commanders I actually like...Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage I guess? A few that are decent, but nothing I really love, which is impressive considering how many there are in the set.

By contrast, Dominaria 2 looks excessively weak. There's only a few cards I expect to see significant play, and at first blush at least, none of the commanders seem too too dangerous. Meria, Scholar of Antiquity could be an alternative urza, and Stenn, Paranoid Partisan maybe does sensei's divining top combos, but I don't expect that to effect normal EDH much. Jodah is the only commander that I'd consider kill-on-sight from the main set, and that's on the assumption that he's built pretty combo-y which he doesn't have to be. Added to this is the absolutely stupid number of legendary creatures in this set, which makes the lack of anything powerful even more obvious.

I also don't like any of the main themes. 5c matters? Piss on that, the last thing we need is more people getting pushed towards 5c. Same for domain, which is unfortunate because without the CI rules domain would be somewhat interesting for decks even if they don't use all 5 colors. Tribal, ugh, don't get me started. Legendary tribal is pretty boring too imo, for the exact same reason regular tribal is.

So Dominaria 1 was a lot of peaks and valleys. Some great cards I love, some cards I wish had never been printed. Dominaria 2 looks like one big flat plateau of boring. Both of them are way down my list of sets in terms of commander.

[pokken]

I'm just excited to see any set not insanely powercrept.

[Rumpy5897]

Interesting, I in turn think that DMU is a very nice set, and prefer it to DOM.

A couple years back, R&D started consciously messing with some previously untouched terrain for strategic depth. However, you then end up with things like Elvish Warmaster or Midnight Arsonist which just suck all the life out of the card as you try to make your way through it. 2022 has seen the wordings get better, finding ways to gate the efficiency of various things without being so blunt about it. DMU is another step forward in this regard, a lot of interesting gating that gets me thinking about how to work with it. A whole bunch of "when X, pay Y, get Z" rather than "when X, get Z, clumsily templated to be once a turn and/or sorcery speed". This gets all the better when the "pay Y" is not really related to the "when X". Raff, Weatherlight Stalwart turned out to be a signpost uncommon for the draft archetype, but seeing him in the initial preview stream got me thinking - so I want to be playing spells, but also need creatures to tap, this creates some variables to tune in the deck construction process, how do I go about this? That said, I think I have an above average appreciation of modularity. I adore partner, the CMR crop in particular.

Power wise, 2022 hasn't seen a lot of egregious designs, yet three of my four primers saw more includes in the first half of 2022 than they did in the entirety of 2020 or 2021. R&D seems to have gotten good at creating semi-chase cards that don't blow the format wide open, but rather slightly improve on the current standard of accomplishing a task. DMU is no different in that regard, creating a semi-chase land in Plaza of Heroes, along with another low-end typed dual cycle for those so inclined. At least this time around the stuff is in the set proper, so that's nice. I would rather they didn't consciously engineer cards like this, but I also need to concede that they're a business and need to shift product. And given the choice between this and the prior models of EDH designs they've tried over the past few years, I'll take what's on offer now

DMU seems to ask more questions than provide answers in a lot of its cards. Yeah, the modes on Twinferno are nothing special, but where would it live where you'd make use of both? Yeah, Samite Herbalist is there for banding lite, but how will you tap it in your actual EDH deck?

Another card I want to single out is Meria, Scholar of Antiquity, as it's such a wonderfully imperfect design. The nontoken clause means you're incentivised to play hockey pucks in your deck to get the engine rolling efficiently, but said hockey pucks do very little outside of said engine. Of Meria's colours, red is the more artifact relevant one... so let's have the mana generation be green! Also the fact the second ability is impulse draw is a nontrivial consideration once you actually get to playing, as you can lose key cards at inopportune times if you get greedy (or just unlucky). Yeah, the legend treads similar ground to Urza, or even Jaheira, Friend of the Forest + Clan Crafter, but appeals to me a lot more due to these nuances.

That said, different strokes for different folks. 2021 saw the release of Ruxa, Patient Professor, which I gave no damns about, and Saryth, the Viper's Fang, which I immediately built a deck around. The designs are ultimately rather similar, but one spoke to me, and the other did not. Someone in a Discord opined that NEO is the best standard set they released in the past five years, while I think it's the worst standard set released this year DMU is the first set since CMR to get me interested in more than one legend, most sets do zero.