Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[BeneTleilax]

The fact that an uncommon has you comparing it to a playable rare says something about the uncommon.

Absolutely. If it wasn't clear by the rest of my post, I love the workmanlike, multifunctional commons and uncommons as fair, affordable cards that fill utility slots well. This card is just below the threshold of inclusion for me, though.

Certainly Lantern is worse than Blade as a value engine, but I love it as a combo enabler with things like Scurry Oak. It gets you your combo creature back from the yard and if you are making the creature infinitely large who cares if it misses the opponent's stuff dying?

I think this format needs more small workhorse value engines far more than it needs more combo enablers. I like the card, but I wish they'd prioritized the former over the latter with it. Ah well.

The new dragons seem fun and combat-centric, everything a dragon should be. I don't think Ancient Copper Dragon is gonna be comparable to Goldspan, as it's too interactive for the high-power quasi-casual crowd that tends to drive new rare prices for EDH. That said, I think it's still good, and I like how the cycle encourages repeated big swings to connect.

[Igzex]

I honestly think the ancient metal dragons are kinda more bark than bite...But what would Miirym call two of them? :3c

Earthquake Dragon...Well...it's big I guess?

[folding_music]

mmm my fave dragons out of this are still the Choose a Background ones and the ones with counterspell adventures. love that sort of toolkit, unsure how interesting it is in commander. but the one that's a negate that also scrys when it attacks has to be notable!

[Hermes_]

god so many goodies for The Ur-Dragon

[Serenade]

Gonna love to flash in Frayed Rope.

[materpillar]

Earthquake Dragon...Well...it's big I guess?

I cannot wait to see the look my opponents faces when I discard it to Spellbound Dragon's trigger. That card is everything my high CMC deck wants. Massive body. Cost reduction and recursion! Nom nom. I got Shadow of Mortality last set too? Now I have 4, 15+ drops to hit in the deck with Kaboom!. It's wonderful.

[Hermes_]

Earthquake Dragon...Well...it's big I guess?

I cannot wait to see the look my opponents faces when I discard it to Spellbound Dragon's trigger.

Scion of the Ur-Dragon mwahaha

[PrimevalCommander]

I cannot wait to see the look my opponents faces when I discard it to Spellbound Dragon's trigger.

Scion of the Ur-Dragon mwahaha

All the Ancient Metal Dragons have me wanting to rebuild my Scion deck. These seem really splashy, and the 3 so far all play really well with Scion. If they are affordable that is exactly what I may do. I don't have all the new juicy dragon tribal toys, but these dragons go a long way to filling out the holes in my strategy.

[Dragoon]

Earthquake Dragon...Well...it's big I guess?

I cannot wait to see the look my opponents faces when I discard it to Spellbound Dragon's trigger. That card is everything my high CMC deck wants. Massive body. Cost reduction and recursion! Nom nom. I got Shadow of Mortality last set too? Now I have 4, 15+ drops to hit in the deck with Kaboom!. It's wonderful.

I did hit someone with a Spellbound Dragon after having discarded Scion of Draco and I can remember how good it felt. It's those random synergies that really make me love that deck.

[Krensh]

Gonna love to flash in Frayed Rope.

Can someone explain to me how Frayed Rope works? I've read it several times and I don't understand. Like:

When the Fraying Line enters the battlefield, put a rope token on target creature you control. - Okay, I get this, pretty clear

At the start of each player's upkeep, that player may pay {2}. If they do, they put a rope counter on a creature they control. - Okay, with you so far

Otherwise, exile Fraying Line and each creature without a rope counter on it, then remove all rope tokens from all creatures. - This is where I get lost. So if I'm in a 4 player game, and I play this, and the player after me declines to pay 2, then Frayed Rope and all the creatures without rope counters go away? So turn order matters quite a bit? Just seems unusual for them to design a card where not everyone gets a chance to interact with it. But if I'm reading this right, you only get to interact with it if the players ahead of you choose to pay the 2. Am I missing something?

[Igzex]

I cannot wait to see the look my opponents faces when I discard it to Spellbound Dragon's trigger.

Okay yeah that's a trick. Let's also add Life from the Loam just to watch the freak out over which one of them is next.

Oceanus Dragon, Lurking Green Dragon, and Young Red Dragon are laughably terrible. They feel like cards I should add to the Mirage section of my dragon collection binder. Drafting Miirym is basically pray to every diety that you get an ancient metal dragon of your colors...Or Dread Linnorm. Your opponents will probably concede the moment you adventure it knowing they cannot stop the weapon to surpass the omnipotent mythic common Scaled Wurm.

[Serenade]

Gonna love to flash in Frayed Rope.

Can someone explain to me how Frayed Rope works? I've read it several times and I don't understand. Like:

When the Fraying Line enters the battlefield, put a rope token on target creature you control. - Okay, I get this, pretty clear

At the start of each player's upkeep, that player may pay {2}. If they do, they put a rope counter on a creature they control. - Okay, with you so far

Otherwise, exile Fraying Line and each creature without a rope counter on it, then remove all rope tokens from all creatures. - This is where I get lost. So if I'm in a 4 player game, and I play this, and the player after me declines to pay 2, then Frayed Rope and all the creatures without rope counters go away? So turn order matters quite a bit? Just seems unusual for them to design a card where not everyone gets a chance to interact with it. But if I'm reading this right, you only get to interact with it if the players ahead of you choose to pay the 2. Am I missing something?

You are taxing everyone every turn. If someone doesn't pay, everything gets wiped.

I plan to only flash it in and then not pay, saving my one creature and exiling everything else. No one else will get to pay or save their critters.

[DirkGently]

Am I the only one who despises Maze's End as a strategy? I'm not thrilled about this set making the strategy significantly more viable.

Oceanus Dragon, Lurking Green Dragon, and Young Red Dragon are laughably terrible. They feel like cards I should add to the Mirage section of my dragon collection binder. Drafting Miirym is basically pray to every diety that you get an ancient metal dragon of your colors...Or Dread Linnorm. Your opponents will probably concede the moment you adventure it knowing they cannot stop the weapon to surpass the omnipotent mythic common Scaled Wurm.

I mean, they seem okay to me for draft commons. a 4/4 flyer for 4 is a really solid blocker in limited even if it never attacks (and if they never have flying, they're vulnerable to your other flyers), and people really value treasure generation (I was shocked at the popularity and price of Strike It Rich - YRD's adventure costs more, but it's an instant and a common). Scaled Wurm is a funny meme but Dread Linnorm seems solid, that evasion ability is no joke and the adventure will have some major high rolls too, both as removal protection and as a combat trick. And ofc the 1 mv less makes a big difference, and the environment of multiplayer limited is way more friendly to high mv creatures to begin with.

Not saying any of these are amazing or even constructed commander playable, but they want to have viable dragon archetypes in limited, and that means they need some decent commons, which is exactly what these look like to me.

You are taxing everyone every turn. If someone doesn't pay, everything gets wiped.

I plan to only flash it in and then not pay, saving my one creature and exiling everything else. No one else will get to pay or save their critters.

It's definitely good with any commander that grants flash to artifacts (which there are at least 2 of), but it can also be strong if the turn order works out for you. As long as the player after you isn't the one with a big problem creature, you can likely play on someone with little to lose to bite the bullet, not pay, and exile everything. Conditional, but colorless 4mv exiling Duneblast is a pretty solid high roll if you pull it off.

[Wallycaine]

You are taxing everyone every turn. If someone doesn't pay, everything gets wiped.

I plan to only flash it in and then not pay, saving my one creature and exiling everything else. No one else will get to pay or save their critters.

It's definitely good with any commander that grants flash to artifacts (which there are at least 2 of), but it can also be strong if the turn order works out for you. As long as the player after you isn't the one with a big problem creature, you can likely play on someone with little to lose to bite the bullet, not pay, and exile everything. Conditional, but colorless 4mv exiling Duneblast is a pretty solid high roll if you pull it off.

It's definitely a very interesting card. A 'worst case' of "tax everyone 2, get a delayed exiling Divine Reckoning" isn't super bad value for that cost either. Obviously the actual worst case is eating removal before anything good happens, but that's pretty much always a risk for on board nukes. There's also some subtleties to its interactions with sac outlets: there's no opportunity to respond to someone choosing whether or not to pay the 2, so if someone wants to keep their creatures "safe" in the grave, they have to sacrifice *before* the decision is made.

[5colorsrainbow]

Digging the new adventure cards. Not top tier cards, but I already play several adventures, especially the 3 mana ramp a land into played untapped one that's a beater later. Having a useful spell stapled to something that can be cast later for beef/blocker is decent.

I feel like this being the second time they're doing adventures as well as there's not being a standard set has led to some pretty solid cards. I'm excited that I can actual"y get enough decent adventures to have a deck around them.

[Igzex]

Am I the only one who despises Maze's End as a strategy? I'm not thrilled about this set making the strategy significantly more viable.

I don't think alternate wins should be particularly pushed either.

Scaled Wurm is a funny meme but Dread Linnorm seems solid, that evasion ability is no joke and the adventure will have some major high rolls too, both as removal protection and as a combat trick. And ofc the 1 mv less makes a big difference, and the environment of multiplayer limited is way more friendly to high mv creatures to begin with.

Don't get me wrong I honestly love Scaled Wurm because of its original art and its meme reputation, so I actually adore that there's an upgraded Dragon type version. I admit I plan on putting Dread Linnorm in my actual Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm for a bit just to try and put myself at a game state where I just keep making copies of it because sometimes I like to troll.

[DirkGently]

I don't think alternate wins should be particularly pushed either.

Agreed, but besides that it's difficult or even impossible for many decks to interact with, especially with all the recursion available. I have a similar problem with Approach of the Second Sun. I think the gameplay they create is very not good.

[NZB2323]

I don't think alternate wins should be particularly pushed either.

Agreed, but besides that it's difficult or even impossible for many decks to interact with, especially with all the recursion available. I have a similar problem with Approach of the Second Sun. I think the gameplay they create is very not good.

The biggest issue with Maze's End is I'm not sure how many fair ways there are to interact with it with Land destruction being so frowned upon. But it does take a long time to set up with lands that come in tapped, so I guess you just kill the Maze's End player before they can win with it?

[Mookie]

Re: Maze's End - I don't mind it that much, but that's probably because I can only recall playing against it once, and that was years ago. Of course, the deck in question was a turbofog deck running 20+ board wipes, so I would probably feel different if I encountered it more frequently, so...

Now, Field of the Dead on the other hand.... that's a land-based win condition I'm sick of.

Anyway...

• Mystery Key is mildly interesting as a three mana draw spell // equipment. I think I prefer Mask of Memory, but could have some potential.
• Stonespeaker Crystal is also interesting for any decks running Hedron Archive. I think it is a bit weaker though - I run Hedron Archive for Quadrant Theory reasons (it's good both early and lategame), and I think Mystery Key is much weaker in the lategame.
• Neera, Wild Mage is nonsense, and looks quite amusing. I'm a huge fan of Possibility Storm, and having one in the command zone seems like a lot of fun. The fact that you control which of your spells get flipped also makes Neera much easier to work with.
• Mighty Servant of Leuk-o is a chonky vehicle that also draws cards. Seems reasonable.

[Lifeless]

My group will learn to fear Wind-Shaping Planetar (or whatever it's called in English).

[Hawk]

Altar of Bhaal seems awesome as a sort of "fixed" Recurring Nightmare. The adventure is awkward, but options never killed anybody. Notable that you could use this on both tokens and stolen creatures to fuel your reanimator strategy.

[Mookie]

Wild Magic Surge: new staple, or total jank? It's cheaper than Chaos Warp, but the fact that your opponent will always get back something of value is a pretty big downside - a lot of the strength of Chaos Warp is that ~50% of the time, your opponent will flip a land or instant/sorcery, which isn't the case here. As a result, my prediction is on the jank side.

[Hawk]

Wild Magic Surge: new staple, or total jank? It's cheaper than Chaos Warp, but the fact that your opponent will always get back something of value is a pretty big downside - a lot of the strength of Chaos Warp is that ~50% of the time, your opponent will flip a land or instant/sorcery, which isn't the case here. As a result, my prediction is on the jank side.

I think total jank; always getting a real card is a big drawback and not worth shaving a mana off. I'd only consider it in casual/jank decks or maaaybe mono-red.

EDIT: Ancient Bronze Dragon confirms it is a cycle. Place your bets - will Ancient Gold Dragon be...

- "roll a d20, you gain that much life" (the bad timeline)
- "roll a d20, you gain twice that much life" (the slightly less worse timeline)
- "roll a d20, you create a number of 1/1 tokens equal to the result (the good timeline)
- "roll a d20; destroy that many nonland permanents" (the 'WotC you need to stop buffing white' timeline)

[Rumpy5897]

I in turn think new staple. Use this on a smart target to throw a wrench into their plans, and two mana is laughably low for hit-all removal. I'm considering replacing some Beast Within variants with this, we'll see if my interpretation holds up in practice.

[Jemolk]

Wild Magic Surge: new staple, or total jank? It's cheaper than Chaos Warp, but the fact that your opponent will always get back something of value is a pretty big downside - a lot of the strength of Chaos Warp is that ~50% of the time, your opponent will flip a land or instant/sorcery, which isn't the case here. As a result, my prediction is on the jank side.

I think total jank; always getting a real card is a big drawback and not worth shaving a mana off. I'd only consider it in casual/jank decks or maaaybe mono-red.

EDIT: Ancient Bronze Dragon confirms it is a cycle. Place your bets - will Ancient Gold Dragon be...

- "roll a d20, you gain that much life" (the bad timeline)
- "roll a d20, you gain twice that much life" (the slightly less worse timeline)
- "roll a d20, you create a number of 1/1 tokens equal to the result (the good timeline)
- "roll a d20; destroy that many nonland permanents" (the 'WotC you need to stop buffing white' timeline)

What I'm quietly hoping for is "roll a d20, deal that much damage to each creature your opponents control and you gain that much life." Probably a lot to ask, but hey, it'd be an ancient gold dragon. It's supposed to be crazy powerful. Gold dragons are the strongest of all dragons, and the Ancient Silver Dragon sets a pretty damn high bar. Thing is ridiculous. Need that Ancient Silver for my Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck, for sure.