Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[kirkusjones]

Welp, Nine-Fingers Keene answers my recent question re: 'is there enough gate support to justify running a 3C gate deck'. Between Gond Gate, Baldur's Gate, and support cards like Circuitous Route and Open the Gates, I could definitely see decks running a gate-based ramp strategy. Not quite as self-contained as Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers, but the fact that there are so many gate tutors does seem like it could make it fairly consistent. Hmmm...

....meanwhile, Pact Weapon seems like it can fuel some shenanigans.

I still feel like Archelos is the better 3 color gate commander. 9-Fingers 100% belongs in that deck, though.

As for Pact Weapon, that goes straight into my Vilis, Broker of Blood suicide deck.

[DirkGently]

Pact weapon seems really bad to me. When has it ever been a smart idea to be kept alive by a single permanent (for an extended period of time, not a single-shot like Laboratory Maniac)?

[darrenhabib]

What makes it seem non-impossible is that Vesuva and Thespian's Stage exist to stretch out your gate count, and there's a lot of gate tutors - Circuitous Route and Maze's End get them directly on the battlefield while District Guide, Gatecreeper Vine, and Open the Gates get them to hand.

"We choose to go to the Gates in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard" - John F. Kennedy
I'd imagine you'd have to go into other land copying abilities as well.
Clever Impersonator, Moritte of the Frost, Replication Technique, Sakashima's Protege, Mirage Mirror.
Orvar, the All-Form combined with spells that can target lands like Mind Games.

Then even going deeper still if you have ways to make a Gate into a creature you can use other clones as well.
Life // Death, Destiny Spinner, Embodiment of Insight, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Living Plane, Nissa of Shadowed Boughs, Nissa, Vital Force, Nissa, Who Shakes the World, Nissa, Worldwaker are examples of this although there are many more.
There are "Awaken" cards that do this as well.
So a combo that I'd imagine would be feasible is Nissa, Who Shakes the World with Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth and you'd only need 5 lands in order to cast Rite of Replication to ramp you 5 additional Gates.

[BeneTleilax]

I don't think Pact Weapon is great, but I think that "you don't lose" line is nearly trinket text. It's a big voltron-y equipment that doesn't take mana to equip, and if your deck wants that, it's fine. It's gonna probably be card-neutral, which already puts it way above most big voltron-y equipment. Not losing to life total should only be relevant if you're running Greven or somesuch and immediately alpha-striking, or to buy you a turn against someone else's overcommitted alpha strike (which is often all you need against Hoof-type effects). That said, if Celestial Kirin has taught me anything, people will lean too hard on that, die when it eats removal, and then declare it wholly useless.

[Hawk]

Pact weapon seems really bad to me. When has it ever been a smart idea to be kept alive by a single permanent (for an extended period of time, not a single-shot like Laboratory Maniac)?

Big agree; this is black's Seraphic Greatsword as a card that reads exciting but is quite bad. The Platinum Angel text is basically flavortext since it has so many points of failure - you have to protect both the sword and the creature its on to not die. The attack trigger is a known-quantity of strong (it's Dark Confidant + a big boost) but triggering on attack makes it hard to get a ton of triggers out of (no milking it with double strike). At 4 MV up-front, it's an honest question as to how much stronger this is than a Zephyr Boots or Mask of Memory (nevermind a Sword of Fire and Ice) as far as equipment that draw cards goes. I can see it making some small waves in Isshin, Two Heavens as One to double the trigger or in a deck like Greven, Predator Captain where it can make him Beeeeg but don't think it's gonna get a ton of play.

[Serenade]

Pact Weapon is a discard outlet. 4cmc might be too much for it, though.

[Ruiner]

Pact Weapon may not be super strong, but I might try it out in my suicide Rakdos the Defiler deck. Decent chance of hitting a big power boost, and I tend to live dangerously playing that deck as a big risk/reward idea anyway. It seems like a fun, but not amazing, card.

[Mookie]

Ravenloft Adventurer is interesting. Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is almost certainly still the strongest instance of this effect, but I could see it functioning as a decent budget replacement. I haven't really seen Gisa, Glorious Resurrector or Draugr Necromancer played anywhere, and I suspect that may be because just providing grave hate isn't quite enough for them to be playable - you really want them to stick around so you can also generate value. Ravenloft Adventurer provides some incidental value even if removed (by getting initiative into the game, which at the bare minimum will immediately fetch a basic land to hand), so could be an easier inclusion. Hmmmm....

On the other hand, Tomb of Horrors Adventurer slightly annoys me... entirely for flavor reasons, although I will admit I'm not entirely sure how I would capture the flavor of 'has made some terrible life choices and is about to die horribly'. Still, ignoring the flavor issues, certainly a powerful ability - note that the copy ability isn't limited to instants / sorceries.

[DirkGently]

The Platinum Angel text is basically flavortext since it has so many points of failure - you have to protect both the sword and the creature its on to not die.

Plus commander damage, infect, mill, etc. Yeah it's real mediocre imo.

[kraus911]

Digging the new adventure cards. Not top tier cards, but I already play several adventures, especially the 3 mana ramp a land into played untapped one that's a beater later. Having a useful spell stapled to something that can be cast later for beef/blocker is decent.

[Dragoon]

Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm looks insane. I am sad that it has nothing to do with rolling dice, but on the other hand that's such a huge boost to dragon tribal that I can't be mad about it.

[BeneTleilax]

Somewhat disappointed Ghost Lantern doesn't give a counter whenever any creature dies. I don't think it would be OP, the color restriction and lack of tribal bonus probably balance out the bad Corpse Churn when compared to Blade of the Bloodchief, and it would have been a slam dunk in Syrix replacing the latter. As it is I'm probably sticking with the Blade. The passive counter increase just from opponents' creatures dying over the course of the game is just too good to give up, and sometimes Syrix is a vampire.

Beckoning Will-o'-Wisp gets in Millicent, as an on-tribe mass buff below four mana. Encouraging opponents to chip in bullying whoever I want to kill first is a nice bonus, and fits well with my theory of aggro politics. Pegasus Guardian gets in Feather as just another cheap flicker.

While I'm not wild about crossover stuff in magic, I do love that in both D&D sets I've mostly looked over the rares as cool stuff for other people, but been really drawn to the clever, role-filling commons and uncommons.

[Outcryqq]

Somewhat disappointed Ghost Lantern doesn't give a counter whenever any creature dies. I don't think it would be OP, the color restriction and lack of tribal bonus probably balance out the bad Corpse Churn when compared to Blade of the Bloodchief, and it would have been a slam dunk in Syrix replacing the latter. As it is I'm probably sticking with the Blade. The passive counter increase just from opponents' creatures dying over the course of the game is just too good to give up, and sometimes Syrix is a vampire.
--snip--

The fact that an uncommon has you comparing it to a playable rare says something about the uncommon.

[MAGUSZANIN]

Somewhat disappointed Ghost Lantern doesn't give a counter whenever any creature dies. I don't think it would be OP, the color restriction and lack of tribal bonus probably balance out the bad Corpse Churn when compared to Blade of the Bloodchief, and it would have been a slam dunk in Syrix replacing the latter. As it is I'm probably sticking with the Blade. The passive counter increase just from opponents' creatures dying over the course of the game is just too good to give up, and sometimes Syrix is a vampire.

Certainly Lantern is worse than Blade as a value engine, but I love it as a combo enabler with things like Scurry Oak. It gets you your combo creature back from the yard and if you are making the creature infinitely large who cares if it misses the opponent's stuff dying?

[Igzex]

Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm is my literal dream commander. My original favorite deck was an Intet, the Dreamer build that was centered around swarming the field with dragons. She now would be a vital part of the deck while Intet, as fun she may be, was the worst card of the deck. You can't even begin to imagine the look on my face when I read the card again and noticed that it makes non-legendary copies of legendary dragons. Double Lathliss, Dragon Queen, double Niv-Mizzet, Parun let's friggin' go! Sheer perfection...Can't wait to put my old favorite deck back together!

[Guardman]

Balor is a really sweet looking card that looks right up my alley. Kind of makes me want to look at putting together that Adamaro, First to Desire Burning Hug deck that I was thinking about since the biggest problem was not having enough handsize matters burn spells. I am hoping it will be niche enough that it will be a cheaper mythic.

Ancient Copper Dragon is like a fixed Old Gnawbone, Really neat. Partially afraid it will be priced like Old Gnawbone.

Wrathful Red Dragon is just straight dragon tribal gas.

Kindred Discovery is a great reprint. Hopefully it will make a good size dent in it's price.

[Hawk]

Balor is a really sweet looking card that looks right up my alley. Kind of makes me want to look at putting together that Adamaro, First to Desire Burning Hug deck that I was thinking about since the biggest problem was not having enough handsize matters burn spells. I am hoping it will be niche enough that it will be a cheaper mythic.

Ancient Copper Dragon is like a fixed Old Gnawbone, Really neat. Partially afraid it will be priced like Old Gnawbone.

Wrathful Red Dragon is just straight dragon tribal gas.

Kindred Discovery is a great reprint. Hopefully it will make a good size dent in it's price.

Give how hot treasures are right now and given that almost all the best Treasure-mmanders are part red (Magda, Brazen Outlaw, Galazeth Prismari, Jolene, the Plunder Queen, Korvold, Fae-Cursed King, Kalain, Reclusive Painter, Prosper, Tome-Bound, and newcomer Jan Jansen, Chaos Crafter), and given almost all the best treasure support cards are red (Xorn, Goldspan Dragon), and given dragons are insanely popular anyways (on average this is as good as Old Gnawbone and better than Savage Ventmaw, two extremely popular dragons for dragon tribal)...you should probably brace yourself for Ancient Copper Dragon to be as much or more than Old Gnawbone. Definitely seems like one of the strongest mythics in the set.

I'm hoping we see the whole Kindred cycle tbh - Kindred Charge and Kindred Boon are lame, but Kindred Summons is great although not pricey and Kindred Dominance is also up there in price. Seeing as we have two black boardwipes previewed so far though, I'm not holding my breath.

[DirkGently]

Depends on a lot of context, but I don't think the red dragon is as good as gnawbone simply because (barring a haste enabler) it can't do anything the turn it enters.

Still real strong though. New Zirilan of the Claw card, maybe.

[Dragonlover]

I may well pivot Lathliss to Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm. Although there is a certain elegance to the mono-red Dragon tribal, the cards just better and I can strip out some of the chaff dragons and replace mad stuff like both Atarkas, possibly some Niv Mizzets and also some decent ramp and draw.

Dragonlover

[Hermes_]

Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm looks insane. I am sad that it has nothing to do with rolling dice, but on the other hand that's such a huge boost to dragon tribal that I can't be mad about it.

And now I have one card that I want to pre-order

[Dragoon]

Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm looks insane. I am sad that it has nothing to do with rolling dice, but on the other hand that's such a huge boost to dragon tribal that I can't be mad about it.

And now I have one card that I want to pre-order

And none of the other dragons to get along with it?

[Arebennian]

I have a feeling that with the new 'D20 on combat damage trigger mythic dragons' and Miirym will see an upswing in the use / price of Sneak Attack. Are there any other similar effects that I'm not aware of? Other than P_________, Bronze Blooded?

[Hawk]

I have a feeling that with the new 'D20 on combat damage trigger mythic dragons' and Miirym will see an upswing in the use / price of Sneak Attack. Are there any other similar effects that I'm not aware of? Other than P_________, Bronze Blooded?

Sneak Attack is one of those cards that's sorta irreplaceable; Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded is the only close effect. Ilharg, the Raze-Boar, Minion of the Mighty, and Hans Eriksson all do something similar ("tapped and attacking") but worse in this case, since you won't trigger "when this attacks" and all three of them require a ton more set-up or are totally random in the case of Hans. There's also Zirilan of the Claw who tutors from library, but at 4RRRR for your first dragon, a need to protect a 3/4 vanilla, and the fact they exile whatever you summon, it's a hard knock life. You could have some fun with Scion of the Ur-Dragon again with these "roll a d20" dragons too. Beyond that we're looking at one-shots (and expensive ones at that!) like Cauldron Dance or Through the Breach.

There's a multitude of "cheat into play" cards like Quicksilver Amulet, Belbe's Portal, Cryptic Gateway, Dragon Arch, and newcomer Monster Manual that are similar enough?

[kirkusjones]

I have a feeling that with the new 'D20 on combat damage trigger mythic dragons' and Miirym will see an upswing in the use / price of Sneak Attack. Are there any other similar effects that I'm not aware of? Other than P_________, Bronze Blooded?

Impromptu Raid?

[Venedrex]

Earthquake Dragon: My inner Timmy is very happy right now. ROCK DRAGON! ROCK DRAGON! I also love the fact that it recurs itself by saccing land, representing it reforming from the rock. 10/10.
Frayed Rope: This seems like a lot of fun.