Atheist Kratos + Atreus brainstorming

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Post by DirkGently 10 months ago

So I bought my first (and second) secret lair, namely the God of War: Norse bundle that comes with Kratos, Stoic Father and Atreus, Impulsive Son. I've got a few ideas for what I want to do with it, but first and foremost I think what they offer is that they're a very standalone engine for both value generation and wincon. Once sufficiently buffed up, Atreus can be a one-stop-shop for card advantage (plus a non-combat pinging wincon) while Kratos provides a commander damage threat (or buffs for other purposes). Plus Atreus is even a solid flying blocker and wants to stay untapped for his ability, so we've got some reasonable defense besides.

As usual, whenever a commander gives any buff to a particular creature type, everyone is building it as tribal, which seems to be the case here, despite the fact that Kratos gives a very minimal boost to gods, since you only get one experience per attack regardless how many gods you swing with, and many of the gods tend not to die very easily, particularly the Theros enchantment ones, which rarely leave the field at all, but if they do it's generally to exile, plus they're not even gods until they're animated.

That said, there's still some potential shenanigans to be had by using gods to get more experience - some of the cheaper changelings, like Unsettled Mariner are a decent option, though really proliferate is probably more cost effective. Another option is cheap clones like Phantasmal Image cloning Kratos, which immediately generates 2 experience and is a decent card for other purposes. The one god-god I can see some value from is Ojer Axonil, Deepest Might // Temple of Power---it can die repeatedly, can be brought back easily with Areus, and paired with Kratos can send Atreus's damage stratospheric. Ojer Pakpatiq, Deepest Epoch // Temple of Cyclical Time is a lot less exciting, but still solid.

The duo obviously have a pretty clean curve of 3 into 4, so ramp isn't terribly useful outside of 0-1 mana options which are few on the ground and tend to be game changers. So with draw and wincon largely handled and ramp of limited usefulness, and at most a couple spots dedicated to advancing experience counters beyond what Kratos provides on his own, we've got lots of spots available for disruption. Hooray! We're making another control deck. Who could have imagined this from me? :o

One other aspect worth mentioning - haste isn't SO key to where I think it's worth going super deep on it, but at the very least I think some lands like Arena of Glory and Hall of the Bandit Lord are worth including, since they let Kratos generate experience counters immediately after getting played if Atreus isn't available to attack (say if it's post board wipe) and let Atreus use his ability to generate card advantage more reliably. We could also chuck in stuff like Anger since Atreus is a built-in discard outlet. I don't think there's any madness cards really worth playing for value, but maybe I'm missing stuff.

Besides haste I don't think we'd be looking for too much from our lands besides fixing, since Atreus should hopefully be generating enough CA that we'll be able to keep ourselves busy. I do think we want a decent land count so that we're not stumbling on our way to 4, though, that'd be really bad. So at least 40, probably 45. I do probably want to run channel lands and such, though, so we're not bricking as hard on them late-game.

Oh yeah, Sage of Hours is probably worth running here. Not really my cup of tea but at least there's a lot of setup cost.

So like broad brushstrokes here:

10 synergy (gods/proliferate/sage of hours)
20 counters
20 removal
5 wipes
45 land

To drill down on proliferate specifically, the best picks are probably:

Thrummingbird
Flux Channeler
Ripples of Potential (maaaaybe?)
Experimental Augury
Staff of Compleation
Grateful Apparition
Contentious Plan
Norn's Choirmaster (double attack trigger is pretty nice)
Serum Snare
Patrolling Peacemaker
Guildpact Informant
Dreamtide Whale
Roaming Throne

Man, trying to build a deck for a commander I won't even have for another...month?...is rough. How many sets are going to come out in the meantime? A dozen?
Atheist Kratos

Combo Wincons (2)

Sol Ring (1)


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Post by Chromaticus 9 months ago

Decklist

ENCHANTMENTS




Man, I wish that exporting from moxfield would keep the sorting that you have selected... I had to sift it through ChatGPT on my phone and then parse it for errors, too many to fix all the random wrong mana value sequences.

I have 118 cards here, so cuts for sure.

I initially buIlt these commanders in kind of the same vein as my Volo / Goad deck, with a bunch of haste enablers, but I want to see how the control version would play.

Could you take a look and help out with cuts / must adds?

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Post by DirkGently 9 months ago

I can post my list when I get back from my trip. Didn't realize I hadn't done so. It's been pretty fun so far. Best card is probably Corporeal Projection. That card is nutty.
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Post by Chromaticus 9 months ago

Thanks! Excited to see what you cooked up. Definitely have never seen that card before! 6 experience counters for 2 mana is pretty nutty.

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Post by DirkGently 9 months ago

@Chromaticus decklist up in the OP. Feels like a high bracket 3 to me.
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Post by Chromaticus 9 months ago

I guess im surprised to see those wraths vs things like fated clash and tragic arrogance. They seem conditional on having Kratos in play.

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Post by DirkGently 9 months ago

@Chromaticus my fated clash is in the mail lol.

I gave the power-based wipes a chance since they can leave my squad alive. Might decide I should use something with less setup, but they've been fine so far.
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Post by Chromaticus 8 months ago

I've been poking around with these two commanders, kind of swapping between the control shell and a more proactive list (still not Gods tribal).

I think The Jolly Balloon Man is a good add, either swapping for Saheeli, the Sun's Brilliance or in addition.

I'm also not super sold on the Thrummingbirds of the world. They seem so slow, and its a nightmare if you play them and then wind up having to clear the board before they do their thing. Especially since, at least in the control shell, they're not proliferating anything except the experience counter.

Once I've gotten experience to basically 3 or higher, I'm really happy with the play experience, so it seems like cheap clones are the business - Phantasmal Image, Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore, Jolly Balloons.

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Post by DirkGently 8 months ago

Chromaticus wrote:
8 months ago
I've been poking around with these two commanders, kind of swapping between the control shell and a more proactive list (still not Gods tribal).

I think The Jolly Balloon Man is a good add, either swapping for Saheeli, the Sun's Brilliance or in addition.

I'm also not super sold on the Thrummingbirds of the world. They seem so slow, and its a nightmare if you play them and then wind up having to clear the board before they do their thing. Especially since, at least in the control shell, they're not proliferating anything except the experience counter.

Once I've gotten experience to basically 3 or higher, I'm really happy with the play experience, so it seems like cheap clones are the business - Phantasmal Image, Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore, Jolly Balloons.
I prefer saheeli because it weaves into the curve with atreus and Kratos. balloon man seems awkward to play. Even if you forgo playing Atreus on 3, which stops you getting a counter from attacking on 4, you have to wait another turn before you can activate it, and they both have to live. Saheeli takes until t5 to activate too, but at least she doesn't stop you from getting XP from Atreus attacking.

Basically same logic behind thrummingbirds. You play them on 2 and they fit into the curve perfectly. Less good late-game for sure, but I think getting our XP up initially is of primary importance, we can tolerate some dead-ish cards in the late-game when Atreus is drawing 8 a turn anyway.

I'm not sure why it would be "a nightmare" to have to clear the board before they do their thing? Unless you have an instant-speed wipe, I'd assume you'd get at least one opportunity to attack - either you wipe and then play the bird, or play the bird, are forced to wipe next turn, but get at least one attack off first before you cast it. You're never going to play the bird and then wipe the same turn before it can attack, obviously. Even in the worst case, though, it's just a 2-drop we play for the high impact t2 play. If it ends up being a bad draw late, that's hardly a nightmare. Sol Ring isn't an exciting draw late-game either but that doesn't mean it's a bad card.

I could definitely see focusing more on clones. Personally I'm usually aiming for more like 5 xp, since that's when my combos work. But I also didn't want to commit too hard to boosting XP since I think the biggest strength of the commanders is that they're pretty self-contained as both a wincon and value engine, freeing up slots for control.
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