[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

[materpillar]

I'm tempted to post a deck-building challenge for the most confusing (rules-wise) deck possible but i'm kind of terrified of what the community will come up with

I guarantee something to do with Humility

Card one

and

I'm tempted to post a deck-building challenge for the most confusing (rules-wise) deck possible but i'm kind of terrified of what the community will come up with

Meet my friend Winter's Chill.

card two

-confusing rules.dec

and there's the name of the deck lol

I have Shelob, Child of Ungoliant and Dragon Tempest. I play Universal Automaton and target itself with Dragon Tempest. I believe I now have an artifact that isn't a creature but has all creature types.

[pokken]

with Dragon Tempest.

You lost me at Dragon Tempest. Good lord what a mistake of a card. I heard you liked haste, so I put haste on your Warstorm Surge and made it cost 1r

Get outta here

[WizardMN]

I have Shelob, Child of Ungoliant and Dragon Tempest. I play Universal Automaton and target itself with Dragon Tempest. I believe I now have an artifact that isn't a creature but has all creature types.

Unfortunately, that doesn't appear correct:

707.9d. When applying a copy effect that doesn't copy a certain characteristic, retains one or more original values for a certain characteristic, or provides a specific set of values for a certain characteristic, any characteristic-defining ability (see rule 604.3) of the object being copied that defines that characteristic is not copied. If that characteristic is color, any color indicator (see rule 204) of that object is also not copied. This rule does not apply to copy effects with exceptions that state the object is a certain card type, supertype, and/or subtype "in addition to its other types." In those cases, any characteristic-defining ability that defines card type, supertype, and/or subtype is copied.

We do need to slightly go down the rabbit hole of what is not being copied, but since it explicitly states that it loses any other card types, that means the subtypes of those card types are not copied either. We know this by looking at what would happen in a non-changeling scenario. We wouldn't expect something to keep their creature types in that case. So, per this rule, since the subtypes are not being copied, and Changeling is a CDA that defines a characteristic not being copied, the copy won't have Changeling at all.

[materpillar]

I have Shelob, Child of Ungoliant and Dragon Tempest. I play Universal Automaton and target itself with Dragon Tempest. I believe I now have an artifact that isn't a creature but has all creature types.

Unfortunately, that doesn't appear correct:

707.9d. When applying a copy effect that doesn't copy a certain characteristic, retains one or more original values for a certain characteristic, or provides a specific set of values for a certain characteristic, any characteristic-defining ability (see rule 604.3) of the object being copied that defines that characteristic is not copied. If that characteristic is color, any color indicator (see rule 204) of that object is also not copied. This rule does not apply to copy effects with exceptions that state the object is a certain card type, supertype, and/or subtype "in addition to its other types." In those cases, any characteristic-defining ability that defines card type, supertype, and/or subtype is copied.

We do need to slightly go down the rabbit hole of what is not being copied, but since it explicitly states that it loses any other card types, that means the subtypes of those card types are not copied either. We know this by looking at what would happen in a non-changeling scenario. We wouldn't expect something to keep their creature types in that case. So, per this rule, since the subtypes are not being copied, and Changeling is a CDA that defines a characteristic not being copied, the copy won't have Changeling at all.

Bah. I thought "Changeling" was a static ability so the copy would retain that static ability? Thus it would lose Subtype "Shapeshifter" and then re-gain it with the static ability? Or maybe not? Or is Changeling not an ability and just shorthand for "we don't have room to type every creature type on this card"? I never bothered to properly learn how layers work. >.>

Well that's extremely disappointing. I suppose some non-zero cmc artifact → March of the Machines → Blades of Velis Vel → remove March of the Machines would work to accomplish my goal of a non-creature permanent with all creature types?

[WizardMN]

@materpillar

205.3d. An object can't gain a subtype that doesn't correspond to one of that object's types.

There isn't a way for something to have a subtype not associated with a card type. It can't gain them and, if it loses the card type, it loses the associated subtypes

[materpillar]

…boring rules parade rain

Laaaaaaaame. Makes sense though.


On a completely unrelated note, I've been playing some Mechabellum. Game is real fun.

[TheGildedGoose]

What do?

This do.

[toctheyounger]

What do?

This do.

Whenever I see a reference to Florida Man I can't help put think of that one episode of Atlanta where Darius shares his Florida Man theory. Hilarious stuff.

[TheGildedGoose]

Current One Ring bounty:

[toctheyounger]

As much as The One of One thing is thematically neat, I think the way the gimmick is being orchestrated is %$#% grotesque. It's not a Willy Wonka golden ticket thing, as much as WotC is trying to make it seem that way. It's a fully price-gated cash cow for the already wealthy. Which is expected of them, at this point, so no surprises. Regardless, it's just kind of gross to see people literally putting out bounties on it when the rest of the world is wondering how they're gonna pay their next phone bill let alone even afford to crack packs in some vain hope of this thing cropping up.

We all know it's gonna end up with Post or Cassius or some uberwhale anyway, there will be absolutely no fairytale ending here. Which thematically sucks, because in the stories the ring was lost by a king and picked up on chance by a fisherman and his friend. Like, everything else about this scenario I would accept if it were available in any booster type.

[TheGildedGoose]

I'm building Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful and Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

[toctheyounger]

I'm building Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful and Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

I'm not going to stop you, but you are a monster.

[TheGildedGoose]

I'm building Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful and Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

I'm not going to stop you, but you are a monster.

I was always more of a cat person.

[toctheyounger]

I'm building Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful and Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

I'm not going to stop you, but you are a monster.

I was always more of a cat person.

Actually, samesies. We came real close to keeping one that came over to play with my kid the other day.

[materpillar]

We all know it's gonna end up with Post or Cassius or some uberwhale anyway, there will be absolutely no fairytale ending here. Which thematically sucks, because in the stories the ring was lost by a king and picked up on chance by a fisherman and his friend. Like, everything else about this scenario I would accept if it were available in any booster type.

Someone on Reddit highlighted the irony of how The One Ring is a metaphor for greed/corruption and now people IRL are lusting after it just like the characters in the book. This amuses me immensely and also makes me kinda sad.

[duducrash]

I have a feeling this set is a bit like Baldurs Gate. Where people where underwhelmed about power level but designs were good and a while later we are building new decks and finding new cards form the set.

Also, if I was the dark lord I would 100% offer 1M for the one ring. Nice try, Sauron

[Lifeless]

There's a not so small part of me that wishes they went the distance and killed you if you didn't destroy the ring. No half measures.

[ISBPathfinder]

The one ring thing is a cash grab but also publicity stunt. I think its fine and I would rather them do something like this where I will never have to see it IRL. Its going to essentially be a museum piece level of expense and I don't mind that half as much as something super expensive but still you might have to play against it IRL.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I think the super rare one ring is a great gimmick. As I said a month ago, I am going to play as much Flip-it-or-Rip-it as I can afford with this set. An uberwhale like Post or Cassius can never have the ring if I destroy it first!

[5colorsrainbow]

While it can get a bit ridiculous at times, I'm loving having all the alternate art and different frames since it's been keeping the regular versions cheaper.

[DirkGently]

I have a feeling this set is a bit like Baldurs Gate. Where people where underwhelmed about power level but designs were good and a while later we are building new decks and finding new cards form the set.

Also, if I was the dark lord I would 100% offer 1M for the one ring. Nice try, Sauron

Baldurs gate kinda ruined the CMR-style draft format though. To me it felt like they focused on commander players to the detriment of limited. And then it still wasn't that great for commander either lol.

[duducrash]

It will be interesting to follow because I assume it is going to be propusefully seeded to an American destination booster pack, it will make stores have mass crackings, it will depress the price of random cards, all that is cool.

But some other places wont have the same operations but they guide their prices by US prices, I know once in argentina at a store they did SCG prices. Wonder how that will play out

[Dunharrow]

It will be interesting to follow because I assume it is going to be propusefully seeded to an American destination booster pack, it will make stores have mass crackings, it will depress the price of random cards, all that is cool.

But some other places wont have the same operations but they guide their prices by US prices, I know once in argentina at a store they did SCG prices. Wonder how that will play out

I think it's in an English Booster. I don't think they can be sure where it ends up. That would be disingenuous, right? Then they would be able to control who received it.
I hope they accidentally open it at the LRR pre-prerelease. A lot of canceled pre-orders lol.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

It will be interesting to follow because I assume it is going to be propusefully seeded to an American destination booster pack, it will make stores have mass crackings, it will depress the price of random cards, all that is cool.

But some other places wont have the same operations but they guide their prices by US prices, I know once in argentina at a store they did SCG prices. Wonder how that will play out

I think it's in an English Booster. I don't think they can be sure where it ends up. That would be disingenuous, right? Then they would be able to control who received it.
I hope they accidentally open it at the LRR pre-prerelease. A lot of canceled pre-orders lol.

There's no way it ends up anywhere but America, placing my bets now. NA is their most profitable region and we've seen WotC give SA, EUR, and AS the shaft before. It *might* end up in Canada, but not Quebec under any circumstances.

We have to believe WotC when they show us who they are. Living in denial won't rip the ring any faster.

[duducrash]

I hear japan has some crazy collectors, but I dont think it is seeded outside the US