[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

[Dunadain]

@DirkGently

I do enjoy playing voltron commander's that can slow roll, but counters-matter aint the place to do it imo.

Their are no bad cards in my Ebondeath, Dracolich deck. Meanwhile my (retired) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave deck ran cards like Fully Grown and Duskfang Mentor. If you wan to run cards like that, I feel your signing up to win or lose in short order. To put it another way Sword of Fire and Ice speeds upi your clock while also giving you card advantage, most counter cards speed up your clock but also are card disadvantage (or card-neutral with effects like Titanoth Rex), the option that provides CA is much better suited to grinding.

But even if I didn't think slow rolling a counters-matter voltron commander was fundamentally flawed, Skullbriar, the Walking Grave is arguably more resilient than Me, the Immortal. Discarding 2 cards AND paying full mana cost to recast your commander is such a raw deal.

You know what commander can be recurred by only paying more each time you play it? literally every commander, lol. You would have to cast your commander 4 times for Skullbriar, the Walking Grave and Me, the Immortal to break even on total mana investment, and Me, the Immortal will have cost you 6 cards on the way (admittedly, cards like Anger and Scavenged Brawler can help a bit with the card disadvantage, but not enough to make me think it's better than just paying commander tax), and that's if she goes to the gy each time. I feel like if I made Me, the Immortal, I'd probably still just send her to the command zone half the time.

Finally, haste is crazy good on voltron commanders. If someone removes Me, the Immortal, you lose a turn of attacks, where Skullbriar, the Walking Grave can be recast and continue going to town, again, making him somehow more resilient than Me, the Immortal, despite her built-in recursion.

Ebondeath, Dracolich comes with a poor man's haste in the form of flash, flying, and card advantage rather than disadvantage with his recursion ability. He and Me, the Immortal aren't even in the same league.

That's just my analysis though, you've accused me before of being too emotionally invested in my decks too look at them critically. But I don't think that's fair, I have no horse in this race, go ahead and brew Me, the Immortal, she'll probably still be plenty fun. I hope I'm not coming off as defensive, just emphatic, Me, the Immortal is a trap, she doesn't really fulfill any voltron niche imo.

(gonna decline the offer to brew skullbriar though, that list had its days in the sun)

[DirkGently]

@DirkGently

I do enjoy playing voltron commander's that can slow roll, but counters-matter aint the place to do it imo.

Their are no bad cards in my Ebondeath, Dracolich deck. Meanwhile my (retired) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave deck ran cards like Fully Grown and Duskfang Mentor. If you wan to run cards like that, I feel your signing up to win or lose in short order.

I don't disagree, but I don't think that's the only way to build the deck (Skullbriar or Me - though I think the support-light version works a better for Me since she guarantees her own counters including ability counters).

To put it another way Sword of Fire and Ice speeds upi your clock while also giving you card advantage, most counter cards speed up your clock but also are card disadvantage (or card-neutral with effects like Titanoth Rex), the option that provides CA is much better suited to grinding.

Sort of true. SoFaI is only CA if you're getting through. And even then, unless you have double strike, there are usually more efficient ways to do it. Phyrexian Arena provides the same draw for 3 instead of 3+2 (and more if you need to re-equip etc) and doesn't require getting through in combat. You're paying a tax for the buff, protection, and damage trigger, which you could avoid if you were playing a pure-CA card with no other upsides. So in principle you could play counter-based cards at a CA loss, in exchange for draw from other sources, and probably not miss out on much tempo-wise or CA-wise.

And it's also worth remembering that one big advantage of counters in skullbriar and Me is that counters are largely irremovable. The buff from SoFaI is only good until someone blows it up. So it's entirely possible that counters could provide better long-term value by persistence even if they're nominally CA-negative. One hexproof counter invalidates a thousand removal spells.

But even if I didn't think slow rolling a counters-matter voltron commander was fundamentally flawed, Skullbriar, the Walking Grave is arguably more resilient than Me, the Immortal. Discarding 2 cards AND paying full mana cost to recast your commander is such a raw deal.

Unsupported, sure. With loam engine it's much easier, or you can pitch cards like Anger and Wonder and Squee, Goblin Nabob and Eidolon of Blossoms (I'm 85% sure the eidolons work as free discards).

You know what commander can be recurred by only paying more each time you play it? literally every commander, lol. You would have to cast your commander 4 times for Skullbriar, the Walking Grave and Me, the Immortal to break even on total mana investment, and Me, the Immortal will have cost you 6 cards on the way (admittedly, cards like Anger and Scavenged Brawler can help a bit with the card disadvantage, but not enough to make me think it's better than just paying commander tax), and that's if she goes to the gy each time. I feel like if I made Me, the Immortal, I'd probably still just send her to the command zone half the time.

That could be the right call if you've got enough mana and are low on discardables, sure. But late-game when you have loam engine or eidolons or whatever, you can free-roll it - plus discarding on tap can be an advantage. Either way, choices are good.

IME extremely aggro voltron commanders are very likely to eat removal in the early turns if anybody has any. Me coming down a few turns later makes her a lot less likely to get removed, especially when she's not forced to attack in order to grow natively. Also, the cost isn't as bad as it appears - costing 5 means you're running ramp to get her out sooner, which does occupy deck slots, but it's also something you probably want to do anyway. Skullbriar kinda makes ramp untenable because he's your T2 (if not T1) every game, and then you're kinda committed to the bit so you want to start buffing immediately. Ofc you can still do a slow-roll build that intends not to cast him T2 but then you're forsaking the advantages he has over Me. So you're kinda railroaded into a very aggressive deck with a poor late-game, which Me is not.

Finally, haste is crazy good on voltron commanders. If someone removes Me, the Immortal, you lose a turn of attacks, where Skullbriar, the Walking Grave can be recast and continue going to town, again, making him somehow more resilient than Me, the Immortal, despite her built-in recursion.

You miss a turn of attacks but not a turn of buffs. I don't see a Me deck trying to hit someone 4+ times to kill them, the way Skullbriar often does - you have reliable growth, you have access to the double strike counter, you have access to counterspells - I see the plan being to 1-2 shot people in the late-game, not constantly attract attention by swinging in turn after turn. By the time you're attacking (or at least attacking "for real") you've probably got a hexproof and/or indestructible counter and/or counterspell backup and/or anger in the GY.

Ebondeath, Dracolich comes with a poor man's haste in the form of flash, flying, and card advantage rather than disadvantage with his recursion ability. He and Me, the Immortal aren't even in the same league.

He also relies on other permanents to boost his power and black is bad at controlling the game on its own. Having blue alone puts Me far ahead in that regard, especially with red for board control and green for noncreature removal. Ebondeath's recursion, while useful, is also often unreliable imo. If you're burning a removal spell on something subpar in order to bring him back - my frequent experience - you're not really getting CA. Setting up Me's recursion takes a bit of work, but the right cards can be things you wanted to do anyway.

Me isn't the fastest or the most efficient but she is extremely durable. She has the colors to control the late-game and once she gets powerful counters like hexproof or double strike she doesn't lose them. Skullbriar plays for the early game in large part because he HAS to. If he delays, someone else is going to do something too powerful for him to handle and he's screwed.

Me, the Immortal is a trap, she doesn't really fulfill any voltron niche imo.

Not sure what you mean by that. Temur has pretty much zero existing voltron options (maybe if you pick certain partners?) and Skullbriar is her only serious competition for a counters-matter voltron. I'm also not sure how many commanders can passively grow larger, let alone gain abilities, let alone through death/recast. I think you're looking at her to be the same build as Skullbriar, and I really don't think that's the best way to build her. She doesn't have the same strengths as Skullbriar - that's why she needs to lean into her own strengths - better control colors, more reliable and passive growth, and tax evasion.

gonna decline the offer to brew skullbriar though, that list had its days in the sun

Ah c'mon, it'd be fun! We could do a duel over spelltable or whatever people are using these days.

[Lifeless]

I never realized that Ikoria opened up some fun avenues for Skullbriar. Neat.

[pokken]

Hey folks, just wanted to let ya'll know I'm taking a bit of a long term hiatus from Magic, just kinda tired of it, so I'll likely not be around. It's been real.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Hey folks, just wanted to let ya'll know I'm taking a bit of a long term hiatus from Magic, just kinda tired of it, so I'll likely not be around. It's been real.

See you, space cowboy!

[cheonice]

Hey folks, just wanted to let ya'll know I'm taking a bit of a long term hiatus from Magic, just kinda tired of it, so I'll likely not be around. It's been real.

You will be welcomed back with open arms.

[Hermes_]

Hey folks, just wanted to let ya'll know I'm taking a bit of a long term hiatus from Magic, just kinda tired of it, so I'll likely not be around. It's been real.

[RxPhantom]

Hey folks, just wanted to let ya'll know I'm taking a bit of a long term hiatus from Magic, just kinda tired of it, so I'll likely not be around. It's been real.

I get it. I hope you're well.

[benjameenbear]

-All three of Jordan Peele movies are great, my favorite is Us but I know people liked Get Out and Nope better.

-Babadook is my favorite

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trauma/depression is the monster all along

-The Scream series is classic though I would say you don't need to see 3 and I haven't seen 5cream or Scream 6 yet (on the queue for movie night with friends next week)

-The Black Phone is really good and the book its based on is written by Joe Hill who is the son of Stephen King and def inherited his dads sense of horror

-REC is also good, spoiler for only @benjameenbear

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its a zombie virus movie with the twist being it spread from a possessed girl that you do see but she acts more like a zombie. Not sure if that would be too much for you, but the movie plays out more as zombie/virus movie vs a possession

-Cabin the Woods is my favorite, love me meta -genre stuff, other one offs I like are; The Craft, The Menu, Nightmare on Elm Street 1 and 2, Halloween 1978 and 2018,

-Kids movies but Paranormen and Coraline are great. Though I like the book version of Coraline more.

I actually preferred Us as well. Get Out was ground-breaking in many ways and it'll always be one of my favorites. Just a phenomenal all-around movie from someone NO ONE expected to create a horror masterpiece. But Us was scarier and it's still a relatively untapped theme to consider (can't think of too many doppleganger horror movies off the top of my head, but I'm fairly uneducated about the format).

I'll definitely give Babdook a go. It sounds more monster-based and I've heard really good things about it.

I watched Quarantine, which is the American remake of [REC] (I believe). Loved it. I'm definitely down for a good zombie movie.

Coraline creeped me the freak out as an adult. No way I'm showing that to my kids.

And yeah @toctheyounger after watching/reading some non-spoiler reviews for Hereditary, I think I've gotta sit on my decision for a while longer. It sounds like a genuinely brilliant piece of film-making, but it might be too much for me.

[ISBPathfinder]

Hey folks, just wanted to let ya'll know I'm taking a bit of a long term hiatus from Magic, just kinda tired of it, so I'll likely not be around. It's been real.

That sucks to hear but I know where you are coming from. I have had a few in the last few years not all of which I have been in control of but I get where you are coming from. I still keep doing it regardless of some of the burnout in part because it gets me some socialization that I otherwise feel like I can lack in my life working from home.

[toctheyounger]

And yeah @toctheyounger after watching/reading some non-spoiler reviews for Hereditary, I think I've gotta sit on my decision for a while longer. It sounds like a genuinely brilliant piece of film-making, but it might be too much for me.

Totally understand! I'd still recommend Midsommar. While it's less horror in the traditional sense, it still has the same claustrophobia and psychological aspect Hereditary has without the themes you're wanting to avoid. Both are honestly amazing, and stand alongside Peele's work as really great examples of what horror can be when it moves beyond gore and jumpscares and elevates its themes. You're missing out by not watching one of the two, and honestly Midsommar is worth it just for Florence Pugh, she's an amazing actress.

I definitely need to watch the rest of Peele's stuff. I've only seen Get Out, but Us and Nope both sound pretty great. I was thinking more about his sketch work, and there's actually a lot of his and Key's sketches that foreshadow his foray into horror. While the Urkel sketch is the most obvious, Meegan and Andre gets pretty dark too.

The Babadook is good. It's fuuuuucking bleak though, if you're triggered by sleep deprivation, childhood trauma or whatnot it's gonna hit you right where it hurts. And it hits real different as a parent. I can see how it wouldn't really have been particularly compelling to me prior to parenthood, but now that I'm with son and second on the way, it hits home big time. Worth a watch, but I can definitely say it's not one I'd care to rewatch personally. It was difficult for me to sit through.

@benjameenbear while we're on this, you've seen some of the classics, no? If you've not done it yet I'd recommend The Thing. Very Lovecraftian, very Kafka, great score with the master Ennio Morricone laying it down, it's one of the best horror movies ever made.

As an aside, I found some of the Saw movies to watch. I'd always kind of stayed away from them purely for the fact they seem like not much more than gore porn to scratch that sadist itch. I was totally right. They're kinda terrible, and as much as they try and bake in some sort of legitimate plot and twists it's really very shallow. And Jigsaw, man, his whole schtick as motivation for his actions is nothing short of pretentious, sanctimonious and egotistical. You can tell the writers believe what they're feeding you, but it's pretty ridiculous otherwise. I can't believe there's ten of them now. Morbid curiosity got me half the way there, but they're really not compelling as far as an actual story goes, it's really just gore gags with pulp story strung between. It very much hasn't given me any sort of zest to go further down that particular rabbit hole.

[Hermes_]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/makin ... y-boosters

Good bye draft boosters

[toctheyounger]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/makin ... y-boosters

Good bye draft boosters

Having skimmed real quick it actually sounds like a good idea. I'm glad they've done it, it probably should've happened sooner. Be interesting to see what happens to the price though lol.

[benjameenbear]

And yeah @toctheyounger after watching/reading some non-spoiler reviews for Hereditary, I think I've gotta sit on my decision for a while longer. It sounds like a genuinely brilliant piece of film-making, but it might be too much for me.

Totally understand! I'd still recommend Midsommar. While it's less horror in the traditional sense, it still has the same claustrophobia and psychological aspect Hereditary has without the themes you're wanting to avoid. Both are honestly amazing, and stand alongside Peele's work as really great examples of what horror can be when it moves beyond gore and jumpscares and elevates its themes. You're missing out by not watching one of the two, and honestly Midsommar is worth it just for Florence Pugh, she's an amazing actress.

I definitely need to watch the rest of Peele's stuff. I've only seen Get Out, but Us and Nope both sound pretty great. I was thinking more about his sketch work, and there's actually a lot of his and Key's sketches that foreshadow his foray into horror. While the Urkel sketch is the most obvious, Meegan and Andre gets pretty dark too.

The Babadook is good. It's fuuuuucking bleak though, if you're triggered by sleep deprivation, childhood trauma or whatnot it's gonna hit you right where it hurts. And it hits real different as a parent. I can see how it wouldn't really have been particularly compelling to me prior to parenthood, but now that I'm with son and second on the way, it hits home big time. Worth a watch, but I can definitely say it's not one I'd care to rewatch personally. It was difficult for me to sit through.

@benjameenbear while we're on this, you've seen some of the classics, no? If you've not done it yet I'd recommend The Thing. Very Lovecraftian, very Kafka, great score with the master Ennio Morricone laying it down, it's one of the best horror movies ever made.

As an aside, I found some of the Saw movies to watch. I'd always kind of stayed away from them purely for the fact they seem like not much more than gore porn to scratch that sadist itch. I was totally right. They're kinda terrible, and as much as they try and bake in some sort of legitimate plot and twists it's really very shallow. And Jigsaw, man, his whole schtick as motivation for his actions is nothing short of pretentious, sanctimonious and egotistical. You can tell the writers believe what they're feeding you, but it's pretty ridiculous otherwise. I can't believe there's ten of them now. Morbid curiosity got me half the way there, but they're really not compelling as far as an actual story goes, it's really just gore gags with pulp story strung between. It very much hasn't given me any sort of zest to go further down that particular rabbit hole.

The OG version of The Thing is classic. Great movie that I'm looking to eventually acquire. I've got The Shining and Doctor Sleep from my local library on my queue for Wed. evening once my kids go to sleep. I'll be happy to report back.

The first Saw was absolutely amazing, but then the rest of them just went WAY overboard on the gore. Rewatching it is still enjoyable because it's more of a mystery and psychological horror than an actual gore fest. I watched Saw 4 or something and was mostly just disturbed by it. No real plot, forgettable dialogue, all-in on "how disgusted can I make the audience feel?" I'll never recommend it.

Scream 6 was actually a really funny meta-horror if you haven't seen any of the new ones. Made fun of itself, tied back to the OG Scream nicely, still had an interesting twist about the killer, and overall enjoyable. 6/10 from me.

[Guardman]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/makin ... y-boosters

Good bye draft boosters

Having skimmed real quick it actually sounds like a good idea. I'm glad they've done it, it probably should've happened sooner. Be interesting to see what happens to the price though lol.

As someone who plays a ton of draft, the change scares me for two reasons.

1. The biggest problem, at least around me, for draft is cost, not availability. FNM drafts have disappeared because people don't want to spend $15 to draft when they can pay $5 for Pioneer.

2. More rares and mythics in packs is extremely dangerous. Crimson Vow was one of the most Prince formats of all time, and while they have gotten better, there is still a lot of formats where a couple of rares and/or mythics can be close to autowins. For example, Gruff Triplets probably should've been relegated to being thrown into the GW commander precon and left out of the main set. There is also the problem that a bunch of rares are either constructed only cards or are balanced for constructed (see most of the enchanting tales, where only a handful even seem to be picked for draft, though I will give them credit, Hatching Plans and Griffin Aerie where great choices given the format).

Shifting gears, for classic horror, I always recommend Nosferatu. Even over a 100 years later, it is unsettling as hell thanks to Max Schreck's performance.

[Lifeless]

I don't want to be too cynical but the fact of the matter is that draft will be more expensive and I'm having a hard time thinking that wasn't completely deliberate. I will add that having set and draft boosters in the first place was ridiculous, but this strikes me as a "create a problem and sell the solution" situation.

[toctheyounger]

And yeah @toctheyounger after watching/reading some non-spoiler reviews for Hereditary, I think I've gotta sit on my decision for a while longer. It sounds like a genuinely brilliant piece of film-making, but it might be too much for me.

Totally understand! I'd still recommend Midsommar. While it's less horror in the traditional sense, it still has the same claustrophobia and psychological aspect Hereditary has without the themes you're wanting to avoid. Both are honestly amazing, and stand alongside Peele's work as really great examples of what horror can be when it moves beyond gore and jumpscares and elevates its themes. You're missing out by not watching one of the two, and honestly Midsommar is worth it just for Florence Pugh, she's an amazing actress.

I definitely need to watch the rest of Peele's stuff. I've only seen Get Out, but Us and Nope both sound pretty great. I was thinking more about his sketch work, and there's actually a lot of his and Key's sketches that foreshadow his foray into horror. While the Urkel sketch is the most obvious, Meegan and Andre gets pretty dark too.

The Babadook is good. It's fuuuuucking bleak though, if you're triggered by sleep deprivation, childhood trauma or whatnot it's gonna hit you right where it hurts. And it hits real different as a parent. I can see how it wouldn't really have been particularly compelling to me prior to parenthood, but now that I'm with son and second on the way, it hits home big time. Worth a watch, but I can definitely say it's not one I'd care to rewatch personally. It was difficult for me to sit through.

@benjameenbear while we're on this, you've seen some of the classics, no? If you've not done it yet I'd recommend The Thing. Very Lovecraftian, very Kafka, great score with the master Ennio Morricone laying it down, it's one of the best horror movies ever made.

As an aside, I found some of the Saw movies to watch. I'd always kind of stayed away from them purely for the fact they seem like not much more than gore porn to scratch that sadist itch. I was totally right. They're kinda terrible, and as much as they try and bake in some sort of legitimate plot and twists it's really very shallow. And Jigsaw, man, his whole schtick as motivation for his actions is nothing short of pretentious, sanctimonious and egotistical. You can tell the writers believe what they're feeding you, but it's pretty ridiculous otherwise. I can't believe there's ten of them now. Morbid curiosity got me half the way there, but they're really not compelling as far as an actual story goes, it's really just gore gags with pulp story strung between. It very much hasn't given me any sort of zest to go further down that particular rabbit hole.

The OG version of The Thing is classic. Great movie that I'm looking to eventually acquire. I've got The Shining and Doctor Sleep from my local library on my queue for Wed. evening once my kids go to sleep. I'll be happy to report back.

The first Saw was absolutely amazing, but then the rest of them just went WAY overboard on the gore. Rewatching it is still enjoyable because it's more of a mystery and psychological horror than an actual gore fest. I watched Saw 4 or something and was mostly just disturbed by it. No real plot, forgettable dialogue, all-in on "how disgusted can I make the audience feel?" I'll never recommend it.

Scream 6 was actually a really funny meta-horror if you haven't seen any of the new ones. Made fun of itself, tied back to the OG Scream nicely, still had an interesting twist about the killer, and overall enjoyable. 6/10 from me.

Yeah I think part of it is I'm much less into slashers than more psychological or fantastic horror. If I want excessive gore I own the American Psycho book, and believe me when I say nothing compares. These were just really, really contrived to me. The gore is inventive, but end of the day it's just shock value, not even real scare. It's boring to me. I'm not really interested in pursuing that avenue any further.

The Shining is pretty amazing as a film. Shelley Duvall is wonderful, as is Jack Nicholson. Bear in mind while watching that every moment of terror is probably quite real for Shelley, as Kubrick terrorised her on set. She hasn't acted since apparently. It's definitely one with some nuance, too. I like films with room for interpretation, and this is definitely one of those. I haven't seen Dr Sleep, but I've heard great things about it, will have to add to my watch list.

Shifting gears, for classic horror, I always recommend Nosferatu. Even over a 100 years later, it is unsettling as hell thanks to Max Schreck's performance.

Keen! It looks eerie as hell. I've heard it's very good for the age of the piece, I really ought to look into it.

[Hermes_]

I watched this movie last week and had a blast with it

[Ruiner]

I haven't seen "The Descent" mentioned yet. It's a pretty good one as long as you aren't claustrophobic.

"30 Days of Night" is another fun one if you dig vampires and wish they weren't always so noble and beautiful.

"Event Horizon" is a classic cosmic/space horror movie.

"Underwater" was a pretty decent survival against the unknown in the depths.

[duducrash]

Sold out of pioneer, modern (tbh it was a pandemic era humans deck. It wasnt being played much) and a couple of commander decks. Real bittersweet. Im happy I get to "cash out" of this hobby and help paying for our apartment, but I spent so long building some of those decks. I remember the last cocos were results of me treating myself after getting a new internship in college.

Im still keeping some decks, more than I play tbh. But super excited, the apartment is still being built but is beginning to take shape 🥶

[Hermes_]

Sold out of pioneer, modern (tbh it was a pandemic era humans deck. It wasnt being played much) and a couple of commander decks. Real bittersweet. Im happy I get to "cash out" of this hobby and help paying for our apartment, but I spent so long building some of those decks. I remember the last cocos were results of me treating myself after getting a new internship in college.

Im still keeping some decks, more than I play tbh. But super excited, the apartment is still being built but is beginning to take shape 🥶

I'm in the same boat right now well kind of okay maybe not lol

I put a bunch of stuff in storage like my collection, but kept my commander box (it's a home depot orange tool box) that has my commander decks and deck boxes in it along with a play mat. I had hoped that I would be bale to travel back up to Roswell to play with my friends but that hasn't happened recently and since I'm going to be waiting a while to get a car, my stuff just collect dust. I don't plan to sell anything due to the hoops I'd need to go through in my current status to do it.

[RxPhantom]

I just think Magic kinda sucks right now. I'm not ready to leave (I'm playing at my newly renovated LGS on Sunday), but the way Wizards is handling practically everything just rubs me the wrong way. You used to be able to 'digest' a set for a while, really cogitate on it and spend time with it. It's just a firehose of products now, and very few of them feel special. Perpetual hype, constant and confusing changes, excessive art treatments...I mean how long can you redline a car before the engine finally gives out?

[DirkGently]

Personally I'm really excited for years of sets based on cringe-inducing visually-identical weeb fandoms. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Hermes_]

Personally I'm really excited for years of sets based on cringe-inducing visually-identical weeb fandoms. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Will give you a whole new base line for complaints (this card is like X from set Y that came out Z amount of months ago)

[Lifeless]

I welcome all newcomers to Disenfranchised Island where we all eventually go once you realize we are no longer the target market.