[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

[DirkGently]

@Hermes_ Lol, well I do try to be open-minded about mechanics and I do like stickers CONCEPTUALLY even if the logistics suck farts. They were pretty awful in limited, but maybe in constructed they'll be less of a pain since I'll probably only put them on my commander anyway, which makes them a lot easier to track.

@RxPhantom As fun as it would be to cast "ooooooooooooooo Balls of fire" I don't think I'll be doing anything name-sticker or art-sticker related. 1) there aren't any worthwhile payoffs and 2) they're too silly for my blood.

[Legend]

Posting this in a couple of places because not everyone catches every thread.
Want to know how much you'll have to shell out for Magic's 30th anniversary! Look no further.
https://peterniemeier.github.io/mtg30/
Remember, they're proxies.

[DirkGently]

So I made $100 today by knowing the rules of magic.

Playing my set-commander Soul of Windgrace deck against Jon playing Volrath, the Shapestealer and Mike playing some other deck I forget. I've got out Evolved Sleeper and it's ticking up counters, keeping my low-powered ass in the game, up to a 6/6 at the moment.

Jon goes to put a -1/-1 on it, so I say "sure" and remove one of the +1/+1s.
"No," Jon says, "It's got +1/+1s and a -1/-1 on it."
"They cancel out," I inform him, "so he just loses a +1/+1 counter."
"I know the stats cancel out, but he still actually has both types of counters on it," he says.
"No, they do ACTUALLY get removed. It's a special rule. Matter and antimatter. They both get removed," I say, starting to get annoyed.
"I'm positive I'm right about this, [some rando] said they keep both counters." said Jon.
"Well they're wrong, I promise you, the counters get removed." I said.
"[Two other randos] said they keep the counters too, I'm 100% positive I'm correct about this." said Jon.
"I don't give a %$#% what some randos said, I'll pull up the ruling during Mike's turn ffs. +1 and -1 counters cancel."
"[Rando] has been playing for 20 years, he knows what he's talking about." Jon said, "I'm positive I'm right."
"I know people who have played since Alpha and don't know a damn thing about the game, 'other people said so' isn't evidence, I can show you in the comprehensive rules where it says they cancel out."
"So you think that all these other people are wrong and you're right?" Jon says. "I know I'm right."
"I'll be you $100,000 that I'm right about this," I said, my temper getting the better of me.
He picked up his phone. "Sure, I know I'm right. I'll call [LGS TO], he'll agree with me."
"No, [LGS TO] doesn't dictate the rules, we'll look it up."
Jon started typing something into his phone, and I held my hand over his screen. "Don't look it up. Come on, let's bet. $100,000, right now."
"I know I'm right about this," Jon said again.
"Alright, fine, let's do a real bet. What do you want to bet?" I ask.
"Okay, I'll bet a hundo."
"Done," I said, and we shook hands.
He started to call [LGS TO]. Before he was done, I had the ruling in my hands. Of course the TO told him the same thing I'd said.
TBF he took it like a champ once he'd been proven wrong. Easiest hundred I ever made
Funniest thing is that the only reason he cared was because he wanted to be able to copy it with Volrath...not realizing that Volrath could copy him before he'd even targeted him...facepalm.

In unrelated news, I passed my first written test for the CPL. 96% wooo

@Legend JFC that is terrifying. First attempt had me pay 70,000 for a black lotus proxy. lmao.

[BeneTleilax]

Some people in my store also did the prerelease, they said it reminded them of the roborosewater cube but more fiddly and less fun.

[Dunadain]

Hehe, I vividly recall the day I learned about +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters cancelling out. I was playing modern against a Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit persist deck. It was also my first experience losing to an infinite combo. It was a bit of a "welcome to the real world kid" moment.

And from that moment on, I decided combos were lame (not really, I actually really enjoy Doomsday in legacy)

[Lifeless]

Posting this in a couple of places because not everyone catches every thread.
Want to know how much you'll have to shell out for Magic's 30th anniversary! Look no further.
https://peterniemeier.github.io/mtg30/
Remember, they're proxies.

Only 35 grand to pull the power 9 for me. What a steal!

[materpillar]

Yesterday I took my group hug-ish Yurlok of Scorch Thrash out for a whirl. I had a Wandering Archaic // Explore the Vastlands out and people were letting me copy removal left and right. I also had Keeper of Progenitus spiking everyone's mana. I threw a copied Beast Within at my friends commander. He said "do that and I'll kill you!" I said ok and he threw a Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass for 32 at me which I promptly Wild Ricocheted back into his face.

The next player went and cast lethal Burn at the Stake at the third player who had my Nullmage Advocate. I said "can I have that Wild Ricochet back" He let me have it and I cast it to save his life, maintained priority and Dualcaster Maged the lethal Burn at the Stake to kill him. The third player was expecting his Burn at the Stake to backfire but we were all ready to call it an evening.

Man I love killing people with my death on the stack. It's so immensely satisfying.

[Jemolk]

Posting this in a couple of places because not everyone catches every thread.
Want to know how much you'll have to shell out for Magic's 30th anniversary! Look no further.
https://peterniemeier.github.io/mtg30/
Remember, they're proxies.

Only 35 grand to pull the power 9 for me. What a steal!

43 grand for me, and only 3 redundancies, so that's almost certainly excessively optimistic. A steal indeed! But not in the direction that phrase usually indicates!

[Dunadain]

Yesterday I took my group hug-ish Yurlok of Scorch Thrash out for a whirl. I had a Wandering Archaic // Explore the Vastlands out and people were letting me copy removal left and right. I also had Keeper of Progenitus spiking everyone's mana. I threw a copied Beast Within at my friends commander. He said "do that and I'll kill you!" I said ok and he threw a Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass for 32 at me which I promptly Wild Ricocheted back into his face.

The next player went and cast lethal Burn at the Stake at the third player who had my Nullmage Advocate. I said "can I have that Wild Ricochet back" He let me have it and I cast it to save his life, maintained priority and Dualcaster Maged the lethal Burn at the Stake to kill him. The third player was expecting his Burn at the Stake to backfire but we were all ready to call it an evening.

Man I love killing people with my death on the stack. It's so immensely satisfying.

Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass can't target players. Am I missing something?

[Hermes_]

Posting this in a couple of places because not everyone catches every thread.
Want to know how much you'll have to shell out for Magic's 30th anniversary! Look no further.
https://peterniemeier.github.io/mtg30/
Remember, they're proxies.

@Legend JFC that is terrifying. First attempt had me pay 70,000 for a black lotus proxy. lmao.

I pulled on my first attempt
Rares Cracked:
Mana Vault
Meekstone: Old Frame
Helm of Chatzuk
Fungusaur: Old Frame
Lich
Badlands

*facepalm* as for how much to pull all 9 You spent $25974 opening 104 packs to acquire the power 9 and Dollars spent per dual: $927.64 And just for %$#% and giggles: You spent $345654 opening 1384 packs to acquire all rares.

[Dunadain]

So to lay off the hate train for a second, this does show another crack in the reserved list armor. I'm not saying this product has any redeeming qualities, but maybe just maybe it means the fall of the reserved list?

Probably not, but a man can dream.

[Hermes_]

So to lay off the hate train for a second, this does show another crack in the reserved list armor. I'm not saying this product has any redeeming qualities, but maybe just maybe it means the fall of the reserved list?

Probably not, but a man can dream.

Only in the sense that they found wiggle room due to:

Tournament Legality

All policies described in this document apply only to tournament-legal Magiccards.


Special-Purpose Reprints

Wizards of the Coast may print special versions of cards not meant for regular game play, such as oversized cards.

[WizardMN]

So to lay off the hate train for a second, this does show another crack in the reserved list armor. I'm not saying this product has any redeeming qualities, but maybe just maybe it means the fall of the reserved list?

Probably not, but a man can dream.

Possibly but holy %$#% does it not look good if that is what it means. I sincerely want the reserved list gone, but charging $250 per pack for *proxies* means real cards are going to be a hell of a lot more. I have always assumed that if they went that route, the cards would be "affordable" (as far as reserve list cards go) but I cannot imagine that they would ever get close to affordable if they are trying to sell us fake cards for so much.

[Legend]

@Legend JFC that is terrifying. First attempt had me pay 70,000 for a black lotus proxy. lmao.

Well, you did say you found $80k laying around, so you're set. 😜

[materpillar]

Yesterday I took my group hug-ish Yurlok of Scorch Thrash out for a whirl. I had a Wandering Archaic // Explore the Vastlands out and people were letting me copy removal left and right. I also had Keeper of Progenitus spiking everyone's mana. I threw a copied Beast Within at my friends commander. He said "do that and I'll kill you!" I said ok and he threw a Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass for 32 at me which I promptly Wild Ricocheted back into his face.

The next player went and cast lethal Burn at the Stake at the third player who had my Nullmage Advocate. I said "can I have that Wild Ricochet back" He let me have it and I cast it to save his life, maintained priority and Dualcaster Maged the lethal Burn at the Stake to kill him. The third player was expecting his Burn at the Stake to backfire but we were all ready to call it an evening.

Man I love killing people with my death on the stack. It's so immensely satisfying.

Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass can't target players. Am I missing something?

Oh, so it does. Reading is hard. XD

[Dunadain]

I too have severe RTFC moments. When will they find a cure?

Heck I only noticed because someone tried to pull that on me recently (was in topdeck mode and he slammed the card down without a second thought, then he read the card out loud and shame conceded XD)

[Lifeless]

Possibly but holy %$#% does it not look good if that is what it means. I sincerely want the reserved list gone, but charging $250 per pack for *proxies* means real cards are going to be a hell of a lot more. I have always assumed that if they went that route, the cards would be "affordable" (as far as reserve list cards go) but I cannot imagine that they would ever get close to affordable if they are trying to sell us fake cards for so much.

This. If this product makes money and it will just imagine the price they would charge for tournament legal power.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

@Legend JFC that is terrifying. First attempt had me pay 70,000 for a black lotus proxy. lmao.

Well, you did say you found $80k laying around, so you're set. 😜

That was Season 2 of the DirkSaga. Here in Season 3, he has since spent countless hours and dollars (or NZ equivalent) to gain +1/+1 and flying and become a Pilot in addition to his other types.

[Legend]

Things I hate:
Arena
MTGO
Digital Mechanics
Pioneer
Alchemy
Explorer
Historic
Brawl
Archenemy
Planechase
The Reserve List
Rule 10
White Borders
Modern Borders
Promo Cards
Premium Cards
Oversized Cards
DFCs
Mindslaver Effects
Set Boosters
Universes Beyond
Woke Bannings
Sexualized Art
Commander Pandering
Collector's Editions
30th Anniversary Proxies
Black Border Acorn / Uncards
Black Border Stickers, Sticker Sheets, Attractions, Dungeons, & Dice Rolling
Arbitrarily-Overpriced-Products-Including-But-Not-Limited-To Masters Boosters, Collector Boosters, Jumpstart, From the Vault, Unsanctioned, Mythic Editions, and Secret Lair

[DirkGently]

Ooh, controversy, my favorite.

Arena: I wouldn't hate it if I didn't think it was having a negative impact on paper. I still wouldn't play it, though. But it is having a negative impact on paper so yes, hate.
MTGO: Eh, nobody ever played it anyway, I can't bring myself to care.
Digital Mechanics: They don't really effect me but they do look stupid.
Pioneer: All constructed competitive formats are stupid.
Alchemy: Doesn't this overlap heavily with digital mechanics?
Explorer: All constructed competitive formats are stupid.
Historic: All constructed competitive formats are stupid.
Brawl: Disagree in principle. Making a version of commander that's (1) less broken (2) easier to get into for new players (3) guarantees a revenue stream for wotc without needing to constantly make newer, shinier things to get eternal-format player attention is a good idea...in theory. Implementation, though, was extremely bad. Virtually no paper support, a focus on 1v1, more focus on competitive...it was a format that should have been played kitchen table and ended up getting played by arena grinders, the opposite of the right demographic.
Archenemy: don't hate it that much, but probably because I hardly played it.
Planechase: hate it, hate that people like it. Especially hate when people are like "oh man, you'll love this great thing I found..." No, no I won't.
The Reserve List: Disagree. I fully understand the hate from legacy players trying to keep afloat a dying format, but commander doesn't need easily-available reserved list cards. For staples like ABU duals there are relatively cheap near-equivalents, and most of the other good reserved list cards are evil and people probably shouldn't play them. Plus the RL creates some fun mythology around the game's rarest cards. Black lotus would be so boring if it was available for a fiver.
Rule 10: yeah agree.
White Borders: Aww but my nostalgia. Mostly for P3k though.
Modern Borders: I do love the old borders but I can't get too worked up about it.
Promo Cards: Not sure I follow.
Premium Cards: Foils? Yeah foils are dumb, definitely.
Oversized Cards: Wastes of cardboard 100%.
DFCs: Wait, why? Like innistrad werewolves and stuff? Those are all really neat though. I mean logistically they're a minor inconvenience but the design space is worth it.
Mindslaver Effects: definitely, awful.
Set Boosters: I do find them more fun to crack as prizes than draft boosters, but I do think their existence is bad for limited so I guess I do hate them.
Universes Beyond: HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE endless HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE.
Woke Bannings: Only because I own an invoke prejudice. If I didn't, I'd be neutral on it: on one hand, it's kind of a pointless virtue signal, on the other hand I wouldn't hold it against someone for being bothered by those cards and banning them didn't hurt any formats.
Sexualized Art: Yeah, haven't heard anyone complaining about it recently but it can be cringe.
Commander Pandering: absolutely. I do miss the days of "oh boy, this set had 2 commander-viable legends!"
Collector's Editions: Like the gold/square border stuff? I do find it tiring to argue about the legality of them.
30th Anniversary Proxies: I don't think anyone likes this product.
Black Border Acorn / Uncards: For sure.
Black Border Stickers, Sticker Sheets, Attractions, Dungeons, & Dice Rolling: Look on the bright side as far as attractions go, it's basically wotc opening the door (and the RC letting them) to have wishboard-like-things which work in commander. The actually mechanics? Not amazing, though. And yeah all the rest of that stuff is pretty dumb.
Arbitrarily-Overpriced-Products-Including-But-Not-Limited-To Masters Boosters, Collector Boosters, Jumpstart, From the Vault, Unsanctioned, Mythic Editions, and Secret Lair: definitely.

Agree: 24
Disagree: 3
Neutral: 4

@TheAmericanSpirit I already have the pilot type, the problem right now is that I also have the ability "whenever this creature crews a vehicle, sacrifice ten treasure tokens" and I'd really like to stop having that ability.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

@TheAmericanSpirit I already have the pilot type, the problem right now is that I also have the ability "whenever this creature crews a vehicle, sacrifice ten treasure tokens" and I'd really like to stop having that ability.

At least it isn't "Whenever this creature crews a vehicle, sacrifice ten treasure tokens or sacrifice DirkGently" lol. By the way though, what is your ultimate goal here? Flying as a vocation? Or just tossing it atop the pile of other cool things you can do? Will we have to wait for Season 4 for the reveal? All I know is that nobody sweats that much that far above sea level for no reason.

[DirkGently]

@TheAmericanSpirit yeah luckily the aero club doesn't deal with collections by putting water in my gas tank.

Definitely heading towards a career, though it's pretty up-in-the-air (wink) what kind. Right now I feel like flying small planes is probably more fun than sitting on a ten hour flight at 30,000 ft, but maybe I'll change my mind after a few years as an instructor (instructor is the default first aviation job outside the military).

[TheGildedGoose]

All constructed competitive formats are stupid.

How hyperbolic are we being here? Because taken literally, this is a nuclear threat level bad take. I don't enjoy competitive formats anymore because I want something different out of the game now that I'm older, but come on, man.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

All constructed competitive formats are stupid.

How hyperbolic are we being here? Because taken literally, this is a nuclear threat level bad take. I don't enjoy competitive formats anymore because I want something different out of the game now that I'm older, but come on, man.

Pretty sure Dirk is asleep due to time zones, but I will battle you.

Standard is a %$#% show, has been %$#% show for some time now. Modern has degenerated significantly since MH1, resulting in a relative ton of bans. Legacy is a sea of Delver Decks despite how much I love the format, and the format is dying even so without RL reprints. Vintage is a format for mtgo and the uber-entrenched only. Everything on Arena imho is gar-bage with the frenchest of pronunciations because of the exploitative in-game economy.

Limited alone is pure. No wallet dumping, no literal or artificial rotations killing your deck or invalidating your investment. In limited, a nobody can play against Jon %$#% Finkel and still have a fair shake for the same 20 dollar entry fee. Sure, there's lucky pulls, but one card a deck does not make. I'd say that Limited does not suck because it is neither bound by the intrinsic risk of investing in constructed nor is its core competitive gameplay infringed upon by outside economic factors.

I don't necessarily agree that all competitive contructed formats are stupid in abstract, but the evidence shows that all competitive constructed formats are in a stupid place currently, in no small part due to market factors. Limited therefore is the sole remaining unimpugned competitive outlet in contemporary magic.

[TheGildedGoose]

All constructed competitive formats are stupid.

How hyperbolic are we being here? Because taken literally, this is a nuclear threat level bad take. I don't enjoy competitive formats anymore because I want something different out of the game now that I'm older, but come on, man.

Pretty sure Dirk is asleep due to time zones, but I will battle you.

Standard is a %$#% show, has been %$#% show for some time now. Modern has degenerated significantly since MH1, resulting in a relative ton of bans. Legacy is a sea of Delver Decks despite how much I love the format, and the format is dying even so without RL reprints. Vintage is a format for mtgo and the uber-entrenched only. Everything on Arena imho is gar-bage with the frenchest of pronunciations because of the exploitative in-game economy.

Limited alone is pure. No wallet dumping, no literal or artificial rotations killing your deck or invalidating your investment. In limited, a nobody can play against Jon %$#% Finkel and still have a fair shake for the same 20 dollar entry fee. Sure, there's lucky pulls, but one card a deck does not make. I'd say that Limited does not suck because it is neither bound by the intrinsic risk of investing in constructed nor is its core competitive gameplay infringed upon by outside economic factors.

I don't necessarily agree that all competitive contructed formats are stupid in abstract, but the evidence shows that all competitive constructed formats are in a stupid place currently, in no small part due to market factors. Limited therefore is the sole remaining unimpugned competitive outlet in contemporary magic.

These are all WotC problems, not inherent problems with any constructed format.