Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[folding_music]

I will come back to commander if they print Fran from FFXII and make her Rabbit Pilot Archer <3

[TheAmericanSpirit]

It's not something I'd want even if I had thr money, but can't you buy, you know, some actual duals for a grand? Maybe HP or something, but still, it's legit cardboard.

Looking at my LGS, they have these for sale:
Trop HP $412
Bayou HP $370
Badland MP $350
Taiga HP $264
Savannah MP $313
Scrubland SP $336
Plateau SP $320

I would rather have 3 legal cards of my choice than 60 random cards I can't play in sanctioned events, if given the choice.

[NZB2323]

I don't know why this is making me so angry. I just won't buy them. Maybe it's because selling $1,000 for 4 booster packs of proxies doesn't seem that different than selling $1,000 for snake oil.

[pokken]

Every dollar some rube spends on this reduces the cost of actual game pieces, in general, so I just don't care. Choose not to participate, deal with the FOMO

Greatest challenge of growing up is to just accept missing out on stuff.

[Guardman]

I will say that these "reprints" are a pretty blatant cash grab. A cash grab that I have no interest in being a part of. Nor do I really care if it lowers the prices of cards. If it does, it does. I've made a decision a long time ago not to "invest" in cards. I get cards because I want to have them. It's why the only cards I have that would be affected by this are my playset of unlimited (actually they might be revised... but I am too lazy to check right now) Bayou, which I got at $20 each around 2004 or so for my Legacy The Rock deck. On the other hand, WotC please stop printing cards that make it hard to play The Rock in Legacy... I don't want to play blue.

[NZB2323]

Every dollar some rube spends on this reduces the cost of actual game pieces, in general, so I just don't care. Choose not to participate, deal with the FOMO

Greatest challenge of growing up is to just accept missing out on stuff.

I won't buy them and have no interest in having them. Somehow this has made me feel…used. Companies are at least supposed to pretend to care about their customers. I know that making money is what capitalism is all about, but public relations is also part of capitalism.

If the cards were tournament legal, or you got all the cards, or a portion of the profits went to charity it wouldn't feel so icky. I feel bad for anyone who spends money on these, especially with a recession looming. There will be some people who spend money on these and then have to deal with tough times. They will regret buying these and it could hurt families in a bad way. I guess if they can resell to a wealthy person it's no harm no foul, but I'm skeptical these will have great resell value and prices may drop in a recession.

EDIT: I guess they're gifting a display of all the cards to retail stores, but that's just giving the retail stores a way to advertise this product.

[kirkusjones]

Recession looming? We're knee-deep in it, at least in the US. Talk to anyone looking for a job or participating in the predatory gig economy. As for Hasbro and Wizards, continual growth/increasing profits is unsustainable, short-sighted and just plain greedy. @TheAmericanSpirit, should we canonize Hasbro as one of the saints of the Church of IGMCYSL?

[Lifeless]

There's no way this has discernible impact on legal copies of these cards. I would welcome that even though it would be a big hit to my collection, but it's just not going to happen.

[materpillar]

It's not something I'd want even if I had thr money, but can't you buy, you know, some actual duals for a grand? Maybe HP or something, but still, it's legit cardboard.

Looking at my LGS, they have these for sale:
Trop HP $412
Bayou HP $370
Badland MP $350
Taiga HP $264
Savannah MP $313
Scrubland SP $336
Plateau SP $320

I would rather have 3 legal cards of my choice than 60 random cards I can't play in sanctioned events, if given the choice.

But then you miss out on that sweet sweet dopamine drop of opening packs.

[Hermes_]

There's no way this has discernible impact on legal copies of these cards. I would welcome that even though it would be a big hit to my collection, but it's just not going to happen.

Cardkingdom has reportedly turned off the buylist for CE power and duels, I'm not sure about others. So I think there may be some panic sellers, which hopefully will push down the price on a gold border Replenish I've had my eye on for a while.

[duducrash]

If I were to build Mishra, Claimed by Gix low curve. What is there to be done in regards to protection? Usually white in indestructible and blue in counters do that 🤔

[BeneTleilax]

If I were to build Mishra, Claimed by Gix low curve. What is there to be done in regards to protection? Usually white in indestructible and blue in counters do that 🤔

Mass reanimation

[PrimevalCommander]

If I were to build Mishra, Claimed by Gix low curve. What is there to be done in regards to protection? Usually white in indestructible and blue in counters do that 🤔

Couple of cards in black provide indestructible. Professor's Warning is one. Red has Deflecting Swat and a host of cheaper redirection spells for protection. Not the premium of the other colors, but something to get you started.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

@TheAmericanSpirit, should we canonize Hasbro as one of the saints of the Church of IGMCULSL?

Certainly.

Yea, and so the God of Capitalism looked upon the earthly works of Hasbro and saw that they were Good and Profitable. A gentle, knowing smile split the face of the Almighty, and the sun's reflection off his immaculate golden teeth shone directly on those chosen Executives, the People of the Profit. He doth spake: "May your bonuses be large and your yachts enormous. Remember always that the lightening of the pockets of little men is your most honest sacrament to me. Go now and make thineselves fat and poorer men lean!" And with a wave of his great invisible hand, he disappeared, leaving the market to sort itself out.

Canon it now is, by my incontrovertible authority and the will of the Divine.

[NZB2323]

If I were to build Mishra, Claimed by Gix low curve. What is there to be done in regards to protection? Usually white in indestructible and blue in counters do that 🤔

Deflecting Swat, Professor's Warning, Swiftfoot Boots, Lightning Greaves, Armor of Shadows, Undying Malice, Feign Death, Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire, Rush of Vitality, Imp's Mischief, and Eldrazi Monument.

[Hawk]

If I were to build Mishra, Claimed by Gix low curve. What is there to be done in regards to protection? Usually white in indestructible and blue in counters do that 🤔

Deflecting Swat, Professor's Warning, Swiftfoot Boots, Lightning Greaves, Armor of Shadows, Undying Malice, Feign Death, Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire, Rush of Vitality, Imp's Mischief, and Eldrazi Monument.

Great list. Dolmen Gate is also a way to make your army of dorks invincible in combat so you can attack with impunity.

[PrimevalCommander]

If I were to build Mishra, Claimed by Gix low curve. What is there to be done in regards to protection? Usually white in indestructible and blue in counters do that 🤔

Undying Malice, Feign Death, Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire, ,

Do these work with Melded cards? Will the creature return melded together still?

[DirkGently]

Do these work with Melded cards? Will the creature return melded together still?

Nope, they'll return face-up.

[duducrash]

Black "if a creature would die…" or indestructible/regenerate are a bit worse if we are to go wide 🤔

[Lifeless]

Gift of Doom is a personal favorite.

[Yatsufusa]

I don't know why this is making me so angry. I just won't buy them. Maybe it's because selling $1,000 for 4 booster packs of proxies doesn't seem that different than selling $1,000 for snake oil.

Because the product fundamentally goes against a lot of player-logic, yet it managed to half-ass that at the same time.

- As a reserved list "reprint", it took ages for them to actually decide to do it, but arguably this is the least offending thing about it.

- As a proxy product, it fundamentally goes against the idea of being cheap and accessible.

- As a celebratory product, it's literally restricted to the whales/leviathans (although in fairness they botched this one so hard it extends to other stuff like the other Secret Lair that's also a limited item).

- Even excusing the above, as a premium product, it STILL uses booster pack RNG. At this price point it should a complete sealed product. Heck, make it $3000 and limited to 30 sets (yes, 30th anniversary puns) with each set being entirely serialized, that would be less insulting as a premium product than 4 booster packs that make Double Master Collector boxes look like value-buys.

- Their excuse for the above is "So players can experience opening beta". Which brings us back to the accessibility problem again. You already priced this outside the majority of players, so essentially the whole product reads "The dedicated whales can experience opening beta". I'm not sure that market even exists, because now even within that market you're insulting them with the proxy-side of things.

- I don't even know why there's modern-frame treatment for this product anymore, considering how badly I've narrowed down the market to. Who even wants to open a modern-frame beta?

- Throw in the whole Universes Beyond debacle, I'm not even sure if the history of Magic holds as much prestige as they think it does. It's not like ABUR had the reputation of Generation 1 Pokemon or the first series of Yu-Gi-Oh.

This product is like the literally a mash of half-assed contradictions if I've ever seen one and if not for the fact it actually still consists of cardboard, it would be literally the NFT of the franchise (actually it's basically NFT in cardboard form if you think about it, they're trying to use "non-sanctioned can use it as a proxy" to justify some "use" for it). Even if you never touch the product with a ten-foot pole, you'll never like the product from an existential standpoint, somewhat like NFTs to most outsiders.

Although, all said and done, It's quite amusing to see the online-base (at least Reddit) collapsing over the announcement, especially over Universes Beyond. I already made my peace (read: had my breakdown) when The Walking Dead Secret Lair happened, which I'm sure most of you probably vaguely remember considering how small our circle is and yes, I precisely chose to make my decisions then because I knew the inevitability of Universes Beyond leading to what we're being presented today.

I wasn't even into Magic during the OG Dominaria stories, having only joined during OG Kamigawa and even my retired-Vorthos feels a tinge of insult that they had to shove Transformers into the packaging of Brothers' War. The set about Urza vs Mishra has Transformer icons on its bundle-dice like it needed Optimus Prime to carry its sales.

[NZB2323]

Do these work with Melded cards? Will the creature return melded together still?

Nope, they'll return face-up.

Yeah, but it's not so bad because you get the ETB trigger of Phyrexian Dragon Engine. And even though Mishra couldn't attack without a haste enabler, you'd still get his trigger because it's whenever you attack, not whenever he attacks.

If you do have a haste enabler they'd still get to meld that turn. If not you'd just have to wait until your next turn.

[tstorm823]

Yeah, but it's not so bad because you get the ETB trigger of Phyrexian Dragon Engine. And even though Mishra couldn't attack without a haste enabler, you'd still get his trigger because it's whenever you attack, not whenever he attacks.

If you do have a haste enabler they'd still get to meld that turn. If not you'd just have to wait until your next turn.

It'd be neat to do this in my Olivia, Mobilized for War. Reanimate both, dump two cards to Olivia to give haste, discard the rest of my hand anyway, attack with all, meld and trigger. Phyrexian Dragon Engine is a card I'd want to play on it's own, it's just a question of whether Mishra, Claimed by Gix is worth the second slot for the chance at melding, since I'm not quite convinced by just the attack trigger and the chance to make a legendary creature - phyrexian vampire human artificer.

[Lifeless]

*great points*

Agreed on all accounts. I think what sticks with me at this point is that this should simply be a premium art set but the corporate ghouls wanted to leverage it. There are so many ways they could have made this less gross. I wonder how long it took to write up these press releases to make it sound like they're doing us a favor?

[Mookie]

*great points*

Agreed on all accounts. I think what sticks with me at this point is that this should simply be a premium art set but the corporate ghouls wanted to leverage it. There are so many ways they could have made this less gross. I wonder how long it took to write up these press releases to make it sound like they're doing us a favor?

Counterpoint: it's the best-selling and most profitable year for MTG ever, so clearly this was the correct decision. /s

Anyway, if WotC is going to get into the proxy game, that just makes me more interested in picking up (actually cheap) proxies for my decks, which I've held off on doing until now. There might be some technical differences in legality, but my mental model of this announcement is 'WotC now formally endorses playing with cards that aren't tournament-legal'.