Baldur's Gate review - what do you think?

[5colorsrainbow]

I'm gonna say the lack of reprint isn't a issues per say, for the time being this gonna be the DnD set and it's partly made since they had a lot more ideas for a DnD set they didn't fit in the first time so I can see them wanting to do more new cards versus reprints.

And the fact is reprints can be in nearly any set and outside of cards that call out commander stuff out right most cards people want reprinted could be in a number of products and in fact many of which are being reprinted in the 99.99% reprint set. It's a wider magic issues and CL2 had at least better reasons to be lower on the reprints.

[Mergatroid_Jones]

I'm not the biggest fan of the set, and initiative is the worst offender. I didn't like the dungeon mechanic or monarch. I hate external game pieces.

Yes, the lack of reprints was really disappointing. Reflecting Pool and Lightning Bolt are the only worthwhile reprints. And it does feel like Double Masters just sucked up any reprint space they had and put it right into an unaffordable set.

As has been said by many for the last year, the pace of releases is disorienting. I reckon in a year or two, I won't remember what any of these cards do. That is another good reason to favor reprints, and it isn't that hard to fit reprints into the setting. What, there's no seller of exotic pets in Baldur's Gate peddling Birds of Paradise?

I also don't like crossovers, and having played Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights in the days of my youth, this struck me as an awkward video-game crossover rather than a nostalgic revisiting of beloved characters. Part of that is my general feelings and experience of DnD: every game I've ever role-played in was in its own home-brew universe. All that Forgotten Realms stuff always seemed to me like... I dunno, fanfic. It's not DnD to me. I've never played in that specific world, nor been tempted to use it as a DM. So not only is it a crossover, which I don't like. It's a crossover to the part of DnD I always found to be an over-convoluted mess I saw no use for.

But all that said, there are a few individual cards I love. Altar of Bhaal is very cool. Nimbleclaw Adept is the upgrade I never knew I wanted for Argothian Elder. Reckless Barbarian is a card that should exist. For all I may nay-say, there's stuff I like.

I'm surprised that the world seems to agree with me though, and Baldur's Gate seems to be selling poorly. Honestly my opinions don't tend to be in line with the rest of the world.

[Gentle Giant]

I'm surprised quite a few people here don't like initiative (or monarch, it seems). What don't you like about it? And don't you like Explorers of Ixalan, Archenemy or Planechase either? (As they also alter the dynamics of play and add more chaos/randomness)

Is it the bookkeeping for initiative specifically (as per Dirk's statement on it), or the fact that it alters the dynamics of play? I really like the latter, as it keeps things interesting: both in how it differs between what decks would normally do and now have to deal with, as well as providing a mini-game within the game.

But yeah, I also couldn't wait to build a dungeon deck when AFR came out and I'm a durdling bastard at heart, so I guess I'm biased towards these kinds of mechanics

[TheGildedGoose]

I'm surprised quite a few people here don't like initiative (or monarch, it seems). What don't you like about it? And don't you like Explorers of Ixalan, Archenemy or Planechase either? (As they also alter the dynamics of play and add more chaos/randomness)

Is it the bookkeeping for initiative specifically (as per Dirk's statement on it), or the fact that it alters the dynamics of play? I really like the latter, as it keeps things interesting: both in how it differs between what decks would normally do and now have to deal with, as well as providing a mini-game within the game.

But yeah, I also couldn't wait to build a dungeon deck when AFR came out and I'm a durdling bastard at heart, so I guess I'm biased towards these kinds of mechanics

I dislike the bookkeeping of dungeons/initiative but I love love love monarch. I wanted to get a crown to pass around but I don't trust people at the FLGS to not have lice.

[Mookie]

I'm surprised quite a few people here don't like initiative (or monarch, it seems). What don't you like about it? And don't you like Explorers of Ixalan, Archenemy or Planechase either? (As they also alter the dynamics of play and add more chaos/randomness)

Disclaimer: I haven't played with initiative yet, so I don't have a strong opinion formed yet.

I would say that my biggest critique of initiative is definitely the bookkeeping. With monarch, you only need a single game piece to track its status, which can trivially be passed around the table. If you don't happen to have an actual monarch emblem, it's not difficult to substitute it with a coin or other marker. But with initiative, in addition to tracking who currently has the initiative, you also need to track each players' position in the dungeon... which means you need a dungeon card for each player, since that can't really be tracked without one. If the person that brings initiative into the game happens to have four dungeon cards, that may work... but if they only bring one for themselves (or if you're in a 5+ player game), then that may not work.

I'll also call out that the payoffs for initiative are more difficult to evaluate and generally weaker than monarch. Every deck appreciates drawing extra cards, but making an opponent lose 5 life? Or goading a creature? Those may not be relevant for some decks. If you're playing a creature-light deck, the final payoff of cheating out a creature may not do anything for your deck at all, which means you have no incentive to try to get it. Overall, it raises the question of 'is this even worth going for?' Plus it can lead to feel-bad moments if people don't pay attention to it and aren't familiar with all the stages - I could definitely see someone forgetting about the last stage, neglecting to attack an opponent that is about to reach it, and losing horribly to a hexproof fatty.

....interestingly, I actually appreciate the fact that initiative is toned down a bit from monarch due to other formats (primarily cube and pauper) - if a player gets the crown in a 1v1 game, it's pretty easy to bury the other player in card advantage, particularly in lower-power formats. Not a very fun or interactive experience.

[Serenade]

I don't get why they didn't stick with venture.

[RedCheese]

The theme isn't to my liking. The repritns are incredibly disapointing and the new cards are ok. Nothing special honestly. Getting a couple of cheap singles and move on.

[DirkGently]

@Gentle Giant i hate planechase for different reasons than initiative. Initiative is primarily about the bookkeeping. Planechase I hate because it completely blows any medium to long-term strategy into oblivion. I like magic for its deep strategy, not crazy wacky randomness.

Archenemy is less bad but nobody plays it so whatever. That said I dislike team sports. Other people do dumb stuff too often,

I have no idea what explorers of ixalan is.

[BeneTleilax]

I don't like Initiative for constructed play but it was fun in draft. I don't like venture/dungeons either though and Initiative avoided my worst fear for the set: a new dungeon accessible to all existing Venture cards, moving it much further into wish territory (cue Legend rant), The ancient metal dragons are overpriced and not particularly strong, but honestly I love that the chase cards for this set are some high-CMC dragons that want to attack. It's nostalgic. I don't feel any pressure to play them, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing them played against me. While, like the rest of y'all, I'd rather have reprints in some of the higher slots, I'm much happier with Ancient Copper Dragon in the mythic slot than something like Jeweled Lotus. Meanwhile the strong white cards aren't too annoying or expensive, while carving out a very cohesive space for that color that should make for interesting politics.

On the whole, this set is average, which most sets are, and I expect most sets to be. I expected this particular set to be painful, so the fact that it was decent was a pleasant surprise.

[MaritLage]

Isn·t initiative in D&D something different from that? Ka . I feel like it·s something like the order that players go in during combat . If it·s a D&D set , shouldn·t Initiative have something to do with turn order? Ka . Unless it really is so rare that you find somebody who will venture into the lost soup kitchen . Also , why are Dungeon and Initiative not connected? Ka .

[ISBPathfinder]

Isn·t initiative in D&D something different from that? Ka . I feel like it·s something like the order that players go in during combat . If it·s a D&D set , shouldn·t Initiative have something to do with turn order? Ka . Unless it really is so rare that you find somebody who will venture into the lost soup kitchen . Also , why are Dungeon and Initiative not connected? Ka .

You are correct Initiative in D&D is essentially the turn order in combat. D&D is essentially a turn based combat game and initiative is determined by rolling a D20 and adding your dex modifier to it to determine your turn order.

I suspect they didn't connect Initiative and Venture into the Dungeon because the mechanic exists in other 60 card formats and they wanted to add more to it for commander but not other formats. I have no idea if this set got added to MTG Arena but if it didn't I would say the reason they split it off was so they didn't have to code and expand it there where they actively buffed a lot of the dungeon cards already in a digital only buff (which they did because it was too weak).

[Gentle Giant]

@Gentle Giant i hate planechase for different reasons than initiative. Initiative is primarily about the bookkeeping. Planechase I hate because it completely blows any medium to long-term strategy into oblivion. I like magic for its deep strategy, not crazy wacky randomness.

Archenemy is less bad but nobody plays it so whatever. That said I dislike team sports. Other people do dumb stuff too often,

I have no idea what explorers of ixalan is.

I had a feeling you didn't like the other types either
Explorers of Ixalan adds a Settlers of Catan -esque board of tiles. For a generic mana cost of 1, 3, or 6, you can flip a tile for its bonus on the backside (once a turn and it has to be explored/freed up enough). It represents the crazy chase of all groups of the Ixalan story trying to get to Orazca, with Orazca being a powerful Monarch-esque emblem (which is one of the four center tiles, you don't know which one). It's quite fun!

For everyone thinking about the new dungeon not being added to venture: this makes it easier to balance (don't have to think about the previous venture cards) and allows them to make a splashier dungeon. However, and I sometimes get the feeling people don't know this: if you've gone into the undercity dungeon, you can still explore it further using the venture cards.

In terms of bookkeeping: I'm just gonna draw the dungeon out on an A4 paper and use markers to show people's progress in one place (and use the initiative token to know who has it).

[MaritLage]

The way that Dungeon and Initiative was said to interact sas , if the card says Take the Initiative yu have to go to the Abbey , and if it says Enter the Dungeon , you have to select one of the dungeon cards from Church . Once yu·ve entered either of them , tho , advancing either of them will move you thru the board yu·re currently on (as if the Meth Encampment and Soup Kitchen required different play styles?)

(Sorry if my English isn·t good !)

[Gentle Giant]

The way that Dungeon and Initiative was said to interact sas , if the card says Take the Initiative yu have to go to the Abbey , and if it says Enter the Dungeon , you have to select one of the dungeon cards from Church . Once yu·ve entered either of them , tho , advancing either of them will move you thru the board yu·re currently on (as if the Meth Encampment and Soup Kitchen required different play styles?)

(Sorry if my English isn·t good !)

Meth encampment and soup kitchen feel like hilarious autocompletes here

But yes, you're correct: you can't be in two dungeons at the same time.

[MaritLage]

Meth encampment and soup kitchen feel like hilarious autocompletes here

But yes, you're correct: you can't be in two dungeons at the same time.

How do yu call it ? The seedy underworld .

[DirkGently]

In terms of bookkeeping: I'm just gonna draw the dungeon out on an A4 paper and use markers to show people's progress in one place (and use the initiative token to know who has it).

Someone in my playgroup had a big card (double sized, like planechase cards) for the undercity. It worked pretty well to track everyone. Idk where he got it though.

Ixalan sounds kinda interesting but maybe it's just that I like Catan lol.

[Gentle Giant]

In terms of bookkeeping: I'm just gonna draw the dungeon out on an A4 paper and use markers to show people's progress in one place (and use the initiative token to know who has it).

Someone in my playgroup had a big card (double sized, like planechase cards) for the undercity. It worked pretty well to track everyone. Idk where he got it though.

Ixalan sounds kinda interesting but maybe it's just that I like Catan lol.

I think the precons have it? I've got oversized ones of the other three, but was too stingy for the undercity one. Super handy though!

[Lifeless]

I get why the set may not be popular. Honestly there are good reasons for players of just about any level to pass on this set - even drafts (while very fun) take longer than usual. For me personally my disappointment stems from the lack of expanding on the themes and mechanics from the first D&D set. My group mostly cubes now and integrating initiative into the existing delve packages has proven to be awkward. We frequently love these supplemental products because they create wacky draft environments and this set really misses the mark there.

It's also worth noting that the general lack of value hurt us too. Specifically we will usually look for cheap playsets of C, UC, and R cards for cube building and since this product isn't really being opened very much we're struggling to find what we need at reasonable prices.

[duducrash]

I really really wish Party had support outside the precon. It's underpowered enough already

[BaronCappuccino]

I was surprised party wasn't expanded to include the newly introduced classes. For example, as my deck is mono black, I was able to use Warlock Class and a small host of warlock cards, yet warlock doesn't count towards party.

[Ruiner]

My only problem with Initiative is that it is locked to a specific dungeon unless you have already ventured into one of the others first. It basically "fixes" the dungeon mechanic otherwise and makes them a more active part of the game, instead of needing something to trigger venture.

I don't think the book keeping is a huge deal. If players don't have their own copies it isn't hard to share with each player having a die or other marker to track progress.

I like the little mini game aspect it creates like Monarch.

As far as the set itself is concerned I like a lot of the set. I get the complaints about low value/lack of reprints if you buy boxes, but there are a lot of fun probably fairly cheap cards all over the set.

[MaritLage]

Of course , the Dungeon mechanic is fun as heck . The only complaint i·ve heard about them was that there aren·t enough of them . I feel like that has to do with , why didn·t they do Party in the first Forgotten Realms? Ka .

[Mergatroid_Jones]

I'm surprised quite a few people here don't like initiative (or monarch, it seems). What don't you like about it? And don't you like Explorers of Ixalan, Archenemy or Planechase either? (As they also alter the dynamics of play and add more chaos/randomness)

My distaste for venture, monarch, and initiative is all the same: the cards don't say what they do. They introduce an out-of-game component. Monarch would be okay if it had reminder text, but the other two are too complicated for that. I also hate day/night.

I want every single card in the game to say what it does. Yes, I'm fine if evergreen keywords don't have reminder text, but I absolutely hate it when obscure keywords don't. I want a new player to be able to look at a card and understand it. And I want a player who hasn't played in ten years to be able to do the same. The only time they ever violated this principal in the past was with wordy rares/mythics which forego reminder text and with the occasional textless cards (which I always hated).

For the last few years, they have violated this principal regularly. It is a strongly negative trend from my point of view. I'll never be able to cube a dungeon card because I can't easily answer if a player at the table asks "what is venture?" Even wordy mythics with mechanics lacking reminder text (which I've always avoided) can usually be easily explained. "What's connive?" "You loot, then if you discarded a nonland, it gets a +1/+1." There's no answer like that for initiative. Players are expected not only to know what it does, but also to track it.

Game complexity is through the roof in MtG, and it gets more so with every new set. Cards saying what they do is the thing that keeps that in check. I'm not a fan of Garth One-Eye for the same reason. Yes, I know "everybody has a smart phone". That answer has never satisfied me.

I have no problem with Archenemy or Planechase. They are variant formats. Venture and initiative are not.

[3drinks]

Explorers of Ixalan adds a Settlers of Catan -esque board of tiles. For a generic mana cost of 1, 3, or 6, you can flip a tile for its bonus on the backside (once a turn and it has to be explored/freed up enough). It represents the crazy chase of all groups of the Ixalan story trying to get to Orazca, with Orazca being a powerful Monarch-esque emblem (which is one of the four center tiles, you don't know which one). It's quite fun!

Wait, this is a thing that exists?! I never even knew about this all this time........................................................what three, four years have gone by and this is literally the first time I've heard of it?

[RowanKeltizar]

@3drinks are you going to run Balor in Zenith Seeker? My copy just arrived and I'm sleeving it for a test run.