Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Dunadain wrote:
2 years ago
Lion Sash is white's Scavenging Ooze.
Serenade wrote:
2 years ago
How do you make white better? Give it green cards!
Yeah, Lion Sash looks quite nice. I suspect it's a little weaker than Scavenging Ooze in eternal formats - it's a 1/1 instead of a 2/2, can't be fetched by Green Sun's Zenith, and doesn't gain life (meaning it's a bit worse against burn / aggro decks). Being an artifact also makes it a bit more vulnerable to removal. On the other hand, it can also grow much larger because it grows by eating any permanent cards, not just creatures, so it works well with fetchlands. Definitely seems interesting. White obviously has a few extremely powerful grave hate cards - most notably Rest in Peace and Remorseful Cleric - but I feel like there isn't a lot of depth in that slot. Nice to see a new option.

Alternate phrasing: interesting and powerful answers make me much happier than interesting and powerful threats.

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BeneTleilax
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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 years ago

Looks solid for Zabaz as an artifact that gets counters, and can be a voltron piece

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
2 years ago
and can be a voltron piece
That was my thought as well since I'm currently looking at putting my RW voltron back together.
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Post by Dunadain » 2 years ago

I just thought of Oswald Fiddlebender I've been meaning to make a deck with him for awhile, Lion Sash may will finally convince me
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Satsuki, the Living Lore looks somewhat interesting as a saga tribal commander. Getting the later verses of Elspeth Conquers Death or The Mending of Dominaria at turn early could definitely have a significant impact. That said, I'm not convinced that there are enough sagas to support a full deck, at least in two colors. There also aren't a ton of inherent synergies between all the different sagas. I suppose that the Kamigawa sagas flipping into creatures (and the overall enchantment theme in GW) means that there a bunch of additional support, at least. Probably still a little too narrow to justify running over a normal enchantress commander, but something to keep an eye on as more sagas are printed.

Heiko Yamazaki, the General doesn't appear to be linked mechanically to Brothers Yamazaki, but I'll give it a pass. I assume their sibling will be mechanically linked in some way. Either way, mono-red artifact recursion yields an immediate comparison to Daretti, Scrap Savant. Heiko doesn't look to be as powerful (as one would expect from a common), but looping Conjurer's Bauble or another utility artifact every turn could be amusing.

Raiyuu, Storm's Edge looks like a strong support card for NEO's 'whenever a warrior / samurai attacks alone' theme. At the very least, it does a decent Rafiq of the Many impression. No exalted means you miss out on the +1/+1 pump, but Boros has more combat synergies anyway. Personally, I'm more interested because it gives relevance to Samut, Voice of Dissent being a warrior - changing Samut from a 4-turn clock to a 2-turn one is a significant speedup. (Aurelia, the Warleader is still the best instance of this effect though, outside a specific exalted-ish build)

Circuit Mender is an interesting upgrade to Filigree Familiar that works well with flicker effects. Not sure if it makes the cut in Brago, but certainly worth consideration - I like the incidental lifegain. The 'etb: draw a card' pool is already extremely deep though.

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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

We finally got the blue legendary land. It's...fine? Not exciting to channel at 4. Green one is fairly insane in the cost compared to the blue one imo. The effect is arguably better and it costs half as much =/

I mean I'm probably putting both into Phelddagrif anyway (maybe even the white one) but still. Kinda disappointed.
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Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 2 years ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
2 years ago
If the blue land is a counterspell I'll eat my cat's ass.
Your cat lives to see another spoiler season.
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 2 years ago

I think the blue land is on par with the black channel land. That is...perfectly playable, even if not broken in half like Boseiju. Can be protection for your commander, stall a planeswalker ult that is eminent. Can put a damper on someone's combat step, and enters untapped. I'll play it in one or two decks for sure.

Lion Sash looks good. It won't replace Scooze in my deck, since green is a bit more prominent and I like the life gain. Will probably get a spot in any non-green white decks as a great hate piece.

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Post by Outcryqq » 2 years ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
2 years ago
If the blue land is a counterspell I'll eat my cat's ass.
Your cat lives to see will have to wait for another spoiler season.
Fixed it for you :)

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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 years ago

Exiling all graveyards on Hidetsugu Consumes All seems like more of a downside than an upside in black. Neat flip side though. New Kiki gives even more redundancy to that combo now as well.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

i was looking at the previews here and umm I don't think this set is new 52 YEARS AGO
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 2 years ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
2 years ago
If the blue land is a counterspell I'll eat my cat's ass.
Your cat lives to see another spoiler season.
I was sweating that one after Boseiju.

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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

reality heist seems really solid in the most played archetype of the format

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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
2 years ago
Exiling all graveyards on Hidetsugu Consumes All seems like more of a downside than an upside in black. Neat flip side though. New Kiki gives even more redundancy to that combo now as well.
the 1 mana activation cost prevents it going infinite in any combo I can think of.
TheGildedGoose wrote:
2 years ago
Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
2 years ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
2 years ago
If the blue land is a counterspell I'll eat my cat's ass.
Your cat lives to see another spoiler season.
I was sweating that one after Boseiju.
I am deeply disappointed.
Last edited by DirkGently 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

duducrash wrote:
2 years ago
reality heist seems really solid in the most played archetype of the format
Are artifacts actually that popular? *checks EDHREC* Huh, so it is - just ahead of lifegain. @_@

Anyway...
  • Reality Heist is Dig Through Time with affinity for artifacts, which looks excellent, even if it only gets more artifacts.
  • On that topic, Brilliant Restoration looks excellent. Very difficult to splash, but an asymmetric Open the Vaults / Roar of Reclamation is excellent. I'll have to check if my Sharuum deck actually has enough white sources....
  • Tribute to Horobi is amusing. I don't think it is particularly powerful outside decks like Grismold, the Dreadsower - spending two turns giving your opponents expendable tokens seems... bad. On the flip side, cashing in tokens for cards seems nice.
  • Hidetsugu Consumes All is... interesting but niche. I suppose that I've heard good things about Culling Ritual, particularly in cEDH circles, so it may see some play there. Losing out on the mana does make it a very different card though.
  • Fable of the Mirror-Breaker looks sweet. This instance of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker costs mana to activate, which shuts down many combo shenanigans, and it's also very telegraphed. May still be worth testing for decks that are interested in using Kiki-Jiki fairly though.
  • Mechtitan Core is hilarious. Now that's how you Voltron.
  • Otawara, City in the Clouds looks reasonable. Bounce effects tend to not be that powerful, but like the rest of the cycle, it's effectively free to play.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

Every other month get an enchantment matters getting boring

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

duducrash wrote:
2 years ago
Every other month get an enchantment matters getting boring
Going back in time, enchantress themes have popped up in: So, looks like we consistently get them once per year, and usually just as a draft archetype in one color pair (often GW). That does sort of make me wish it would show up in a different color combination.

As for other stuff... Norika Yamazaki, the Poet is alright as a recursion piece, but, like Heiko Yamazaki, the General, there are certainly stronger options. On the other hand, The Restoration of Eiganjo looks reasonable - not powerful, but if you can take advantage of the discard it can be a decent bit of value. I guess the fail case is you discard the fetched land to recur something, then get the body on the flip side.

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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
make me wish it would show up in a different color combination
I think you put into words what I felt and couldnt display properly. If we scroll back a few pages I literally said I will build Tatsunari, Toad Rider deck. It's (from my evaluation) a weaker card, it's in a somewhat unique collor combination but seeing constant good stuff it's kinda boring so I guess I was a biiit dissapointed

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Post by kirkusjones » 2 years ago

duducrash wrote:
2 years ago
Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
make me wish it would show up in a different color combination
I think you put into words what I felt and couldnt display properly. If we scroll back a few pages I literally said I will build Tatsunari, Toad Rider deck. It's (from my evaluation) a weaker card, it's in a somewhat unique collor combination but seeing constant good stuff it's kinda boring so I guess I was a biiit dissapointed
Part of the problem is enchantments as a strategy, I think. If you're voltroning up a critter (or your commander) to smash face, you want ways to protect your investment. Being in BUG gives you a lot of options for protection, both proactive and reactive, so unless you're okay with getting blown out by removal on your juiced up monster, you're going to run that protection. From there, it's tough to not justify running more generic answers and you slide into good stuff.

Same thing with a general enchantress theme in BUG. You lose a lot of the enchantment recursion white pairs/wedges have access to, so you run protection and pillowfort/soft stax pieces. Again, you're moonwalking towards a slippery slope into ValueTowne.

There's probably a way to build Tatsunari (frog tribal? Shapeshifters/changelings/etc) that is more casual and flavorful, but you probably won't have a great time playing enchantress-style because you'll struggle balancing the flavor you want with the good stuff protection the strategy needs.

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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

kirkusjones wrote:
2 years ago
it's tough to not justify running more generic answers and you slide into good stuff.
I mentioned I would build a bad version of Tatsunari, otherwise you are running goodstuff, and good stuff with a (what I see right now) somewhat mediocre card seems dumb. bant and esper share 2/3 colors with him and have well estabilished enchantment decks. I know that we have 50% of the set to be spoiled but meh, I was lowkey expecting more synergies in set.

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Post by Wallycaine » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
On the other hand, The Restoration of Eiganjo looks reasonable - not powerful, but if you can take advantage of the discard it can be a decent bit of value. I guess the fail case is you discard the fetched land to recur something, then get the body on the flip side.
Just a quick note: the "something" you recur can be the very land you discarded (due to it being a reflexive triggered ability). So barring stuff like Rest in Peace, the fail case is being a delayed white Rampant Growth that comes with a body on the flipside and enchantment synergies.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago

As for other stuff... Norika Yamazaki, the Poet is alright as a recursion piece, but, like Heiko Yamazaki, the General, there are certainly stronger options.

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Wallycaine wrote:
2 years ago
Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
On the other hand, The Restoration of Eiganjo looks reasonable - not powerful, but if you can take advantage of the discard it can be a decent bit of value. I guess the fail case is you discard the fetched land to recur something, then get the body on the flip side.
Just a quick note: the "something" you recur can be the very land you discarded (due to it being a reflexive triggered ability). So barring stuff like Rest in Peace, the fail case is being a delayed white Rampant Growth that comes with a body on the flipside and enchantment synergies.
Good catch! I noticed that was theoretically possible, but ignored it because you usually can't target something you discard. Reflexive trigger is very spiffy here. Time to build the jankiest possible Farhaven Elf!

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Post by Jemolk » 2 years ago

So, I gotta be honest -- I've been looking at the spoilers largely to try and see if I can see anything that would go into my Kami Tribal deck, and I'm increasingly disappointed to see that it looks like only one card would fit -- that being The Kami War. I've also got a ninja deck, but I'd rather avoid the "cyberpunk" portion of the set for aesthetic reasons, meaning I'm really disappointed to see that basically all the ninjas fit into that half of the setting. All in all, my two Kamigawa-themed decks are probably going to get less from this set than my other decks. I'm just really disappointed with this entire set, and I'm hard-pressed to feel anything but apathy toward it.

Anyone else disappointed that there seems to be so vanishingly little synergy between the old Kamigawa block and the new set? It's ninjutsu and a scattering of individual cards that don't actually fill any needed niche, and the aesthetics of the ninjas between the two clash horribly. I dunno, maybe I'm just too attached to nostalgia, but this set just feels so subtly wrong to me on so many levels, and it's killed any possible enthusiasm I could have had for a return to Kamigawa.
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