Memory Lapse and Shuffle, a tuck alternative

[Dunharrow]

On arena I am running a Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh brawl deck, and I am running Memory Lapse and Commit // Memory as they are pretty good at setting up a +2 from Bolas.

But I have also noticed that some players are greedy and if I Memory Lapse their commander, they will leave it on top to avoid paying commander tax.

Which is the perfect opportunity to shuffle the commander away with a Field of Ruin, the memory half of commit / Memory, or any other forced shuffle.

I am not sure if this is good enough for Commander, but we also have things like Unexpectedly Absent... and it makes me wonder if these effects should be given more value if you have a lot of forced shuffles in your deck.

And yes, this is probably a mild theorycrafting for the Soldier of Fortune deck I will eventually build.

[materpillar]

Seems like a poor plan to me. Sure, it's a pseudo way to get around tuck but that doesn't feel like a good goal to aim for. You can also, Oblivion Ring a commander and then Stifle the return trigger.

The main issue with this is that it won't really work that well in any sort of a stable metagame. If you play with the same people your deck will be able to do its cute shuffle away thing once and then people will wise up and it'll never work again. It also has a pretty high chance of pissing people off and getting them to over target you in response. You're clearly using a rules loophole to tuck people's commander, an action that has been defined as not within the spirit of the game by the rules committee. Unless your gaming group is very competitive I expect this would be frowned upon.

[RxPhantom]

I'm intrigued! I want tuck back so baaaaaaaad!! I've secretly always wanted to put Soldier of Fortune into a deck, too.

[DirkGently]

As materpillar points out, people won't fall for it once they've seen the trick.

One big problem is that virtually all top-of-deck removal is exactly as efficient, or less efficient, than just killing it. So if your opponents just assume all top deck removal is hard removal, you haven't gained any advantage.

Not so with temporary exile, though. Mistmeadow Witch for example is pretty efficient if every activation kills a commander. Eventually they'll probably have to take a gamble that you can't stifle the trigger. Or kill the witch somehow. But anyway, it's a much better possibility, and more permanent too.

[Dunharrow]

yeah I realize it's a one-trick pony with any kind of stable playgroup
But people are greedy surprisingly often

I kind of see Memory Lapse and Unexpectedly Absent as reasonable cards in the 99 that can sometimes tuck a commander if the opponent is greedy.
I wouldn't start playing 5 mana to put a creature on top of the library.

Gonti is another card that can lock away a commander pretty interestingly.

I may throw in some of these cards in a future build and see how often I can tuck a commander.

[onering]

I'll say that if it's just a small package that involves already playable cards, it's worthwhile even if they know the trick is coming.

Memory lapse is a reasonable spell to run generally, as timing is pretty important and putting the countered spell on top of the library can often be as effective as countering it outright. If your deck already has some forced shuffle effects, and you decide to add a couple more that are reasonable (like field of ruin), you'll get to occasionally catch people with the combo. Once you pull off the trick, they'll know it's available, but that leads to two potential outcomes: they either wager that you won't have an effect to combo it with (or not notice that you do) and "get greedy" as you say, letting you fire it off, or they will be cautious and play around it which turns the better top o' the library effects into more effective answers vs commanders. Memory lapse against a commander will normally just make them draw the commander next turn, but if they are worried about you making them shuffle, or you have something on board that will do so, they'll send it to the zone and have to pay the extra tax next time. This makes something like memory lapse into the equivalent a cheap counterspell with only one colored pip when used against a commander. Now, this isn't earths shattering, it's rather a small but measurable way to make already good cards better.

[Venedrex]

Make your commander Roon of the Hidden Realm, throw in every Mistmeadow Witch effect + every Stifle variant. People will probably just put their commanders back in the zone, but then it's a win for you anyway isn't it... I kind of want to build this deck now as a joke.

[Dunharrow]

Make your commander Roon of the Hidden Realm, throw in every Mistmeadow Witch effect + every Stifle variant. People will probably just put their commanders back in the zone, but then it's a win for you anyway isn't it... I kind of want to build this deck now as a joke.

yeesh that sounds clunky.
I get the desire though
for me I will just stick to playing cards I think would make the cut anyway

[ISBPathfinder]

I have long duration exiled commanders with Palace Jailer more than once because people fell for it. Most people think that the effect ends when he leaves play and then when they don't have a means to threaten monarch they suddenly flounder. I think this is similar to what you are highlighting where you can get away with it when they are unwise. Just accept that its a kill effect and move on people.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for those that fall for these effects but I think its a gimmick that works on inexperienced players. I don't think I would go out of my way to try to punish these level of players. I do think that Memory Lapse is kind of a bad card if you are measuring by its own merit as far as interaction goes.

Make your commander Roon of the Hidden Realm, throw in every Mistmeadow Witch effect + every Stifle variant. People will probably just put their commanders back in the zone, but then it's a win for you anyway isn't it... I kind of want to build this deck now as a joke.

It might work the first time then you are playing archenemy from any group that knows what you are doing. I tend to avoid decks where my commander demands that everyone kill it for this reason. You could just as easily be playing Zur the Enchanter or any number of the other answer me or die commanders.

[Dunharrow]

I have long duration exiled commanders with Palace Jailer more than once because people fell for it. Most people think that the effect ends when he leaves play and then when they don't have a means to threaten monarch they suddenly flounder. I think this is similar to what you are highlighting where you can get away with it when they are unwise. Just accept that its a kill effect and move on people.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for those that fall for these effects but I think its a gimmick that works on inexperienced players. I don't think I would go out of my way to try to punish these level of players. I do think that Memory Lapse is kind of a bad card if you are measuring by its own merit as far as interaction goes.

Make your commander Roon of the Hidden Realm, throw in every Mistmeadow Witch effect + every Stifle variant. People will probably just put their commanders back in the zone, but then it's a win for you anyway isn't it... I kind of want to build this deck now as a joke.

It might work the first time then you are playing archenemy from any group that knows what you are doing. I tend to avoid decks where my commander demands that everyone kill it for this reason. You could just as easily be playing Zur the Enchanter or any number of the other answer me or die commanders.

If I was playing with less experienced players I would explain to them the risk if they put their commander on top of their library. I am not trying to punish beginners.
I just want to punish greediness I guess.

[ISBPathfinder]

I have long duration exiled commanders with Palace Jailer more than once because people fell for it. Most people think that the effect ends when he leaves play and then when they don't have a means to threaten monarch they suddenly flounder. I think this is similar to what you are highlighting where you can get away with it when they are unwise. Just accept that its a kill effect and move on people.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for those that fall for these effects but I think its a gimmick that works on inexperienced players. I don't think I would go out of my way to try to punish these level of players. I do think that Memory Lapse is kind of a bad card if you are measuring by its own merit as far as interaction goes.

Make your commander Roon of the Hidden Realm, throw in every Mistmeadow Witch effect + every Stifle variant. People will probably just put their commanders back in the zone, but then it's a win for you anyway isn't it... I kind of want to build this deck now as a joke.

It might work the first time then you are playing archenemy from any group that knows what you are doing. I tend to avoid decks where my commander demands that everyone kill it for this reason. You could just as easily be playing Zur the Enchanter or any number of the other answer me or die commanders.

If I was playing with less experienced players I would explain to them the risk if they put their commander on top of their library. I am not trying to punish beginners.
I just want to punish greediness I guess.

Sometimes they also fall into thinking that they can connect with something that I suddenly remove as they go to do it as well. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way. I generally don't fall into targeting super green players with a lot of removal in the first place so it tends to be someone making a bad call.