Banlist update: 7 cards banned for offensive imagery/names

[DirkGently]

For those not aware, the following cards just got banned in competitive magic and, as per a tweet from the RC, commander:

• invoke prejudice
• imprison
• crusade
• pradesh gypsies
• stone-throwing devils
• cleanse
• jihad

The tweet:

[darrenhabib]

Oh no. These are in the context of Magic mechanics, stop treating us like we are ignorant.

I'm very mixed raced, 1/4 Maori, 1/4 Lebanese, 1/2 Scottish, so I guess that gives me a "green light" to comment on such things.

But this is just silly. These cards were never made with racism in mind, and its a very fine line of interpretation into "racism".

I don't see Execute on this list. I'm sure families of murdered victims in Zimbabwe would have a problem with this.
My point being that its a very subjective thing when interpreting "racism" in the context of Magic mechanics, fantasy realms and creatures.

[RedCheese]

This is so STUPID!

[DirkGently]

I could make arguments for why such things shouldn't be banned, but I think my main feelings come down on three points:

1) I own an invoke prejudice, and I don't like that I can't play it anymore (Jihad and crusade are really the only other playable ones, and they're much more replaceable function-wise...also I don't own a jihad so I care a lot less about it, shrug).

2) I don't like the precedent this sets for cards being banned outside of gameplay considerations. I prefer to feel like my cards are "safe" and won't get banned out from under me.

3) This feels like an utterly meaningless hollow corporate gesture (though I'm painfully white so my opinion on this is probably irrelevant).

[Selaya]

God save us from censorship. (And <snip>.)

Warning for inappropriate language - cryo

[Sinis]

These cards were never made with racism in mind, and its a very fine line of interpretation into "racism".

Ok, but Harold McNeill is literally a neonazi.

-Signed, a mixed race person.

Edit: For the record, I'm not super on side with the bans. I really like playing some of these cards. Not sure what else to say about them.

[pokken]

Nobody should have to look at a dude in an obvious klan hood on a magic card. On a card that discriminates by color.

I own an invoke as well and never really felt right playing it.

[RxPhantom]

I see what they're going for here, but it strikes me as an overly compensatory swerve onto the high road that may not have been 100% necessary, or even impactful. Now, I don't have any reason to use any but one of these cards (they mostly suck), but...It just doesn't totally compute, except Invoke Prejudice. That one just feels icky.

Where is the line though? The last time I remember people being rankled by art it was the original version of Triumph of Ferocity|Avacyn Restored. Taken out of context, it looked to some as if Garruk was sexually assaulting Liliana. Should it be banned? I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, because even though I have modest reservations about this kind of stuff, I still see this kind of garbage being posted in 2020...

God save us from censorship. (And <snip>.)

and it's gross.

[DirkGently]

Nobody should have to look at a dude in an obvious klan hood on a magic card. On a card that discriminates by color.

I own an invoke as well and never really felt right playing it.

My feeling on IP is that, while it definitely depicts the klan, the name of the card is "invoke prejudice" not "look how cool this guy is". I got the vibe that the card portrays them as villains. Although certainly it's a bit much to put onto a card game for children.

The artist is absolutely a racist nutter, no question about that. The multiverse ID thing is just the weirdest, though. Either someone deciding how that system works had some very poor taste, or it's the craziest coincidence in the history of everything.

EDIT: does anyone understand why "cleanse" is on the list? Is it just the combo of name + effect being anti-black? If so that seems like kind of a dangerous slippery slope to me given that, y'know, black is just a color in the game and there are a lot of cards that reference that color in ways that are a little edgy outside the context of the game rules.

Or is there something in the art? TBH I can't tell what's even happening in it.

[Sinis]

Where is the line though?

That's a good question. Do we ban Delay (but only French versions), Witch Hunter, Inquisition (since Crusade/Jihad are unacceptable, this one surely is) and others?

Maybe. Like I said, I'm not really keen on Wizards doing that, because a 25 year old game is going to have some problems. In 10 years time, maybe Arthurian legend will be considered racist and much of Throne of Eldraine will be wiped away, too.

This, also, from the company that won't show fiction with LGBT references in China.

EDIT: does anyone understand why "cleanse" is on the list? Is it just the combo of name + effect being anti-black? If so that seems like kind of a dangerous slippery slope to me given that, y'know, black is just a color in the game and there are a lot of cards that reference that color in ways that are a little edgy outside the context of the game rules.

I'm pretty sure a KKK member has uttered its oracle text without knowing that Magic even exists. It's a combination of the name and game text, IMO.

[Selaya]

[ ... ]

This, also, from the company that won't show fiction with LGBT references in China.
[ ... ]

what is hypocrisy
(Yeah, couldn't find something more related. Sorry.)

[RxPhantom]

EDIT: does anyone understand why "cleanse" is on the list? Is it just the combo of name + effect being anti-black? If so that seems like kind of a dangerous slippery slope to me given that, y'know, black is just a color in the game and there are a lot of cards that reference that color in ways that are a little edgy outside the context of the game rules.

Or is there something in the art? TBH I can't tell what's even happening in it.

I poured over the art because I was wondering the same thing. I think this one strains credulity the most. In my (cis, white, male) mind, I don't see a problem with it at first glance. They're clearly thinking that the card's name and function are problematic. I'd like to know if any players of color ever looked at that card sideways. And that's not some disingenuous baiting; if I've got some learnin' and growin' to do, I'LL DO IT!!! I'd really like to examine all sides of this issue, especially if I'm underestimating the....ummm....yuck factor of Cleanse.

[pokken]

I'm pretty disinclined in general to get up in arms about people trying to be more sensitive in a community noted for such horrendous insensitivity particularly. I think this is probably a step in the right direction ultimately.

Invoke itself is just so problematic on so many levels from implying color prejudice between creatures (ew) essentially likening colors to races, the art, the artist, the words. Just ick.

I don't know the context of all the cards but the gypsies one feels pretty obvious.

I like to think I wouldn't change my attitude if they banned a card I actually have interest in playing but not sure.

[Sinis]

I like to think I wouldn't change my attitude if they banned a card I actually have interest in playing but not sure.

It's a sign of good character (IMO) when a person acknowledges they have the moral luck of not needing to make a decision, or the garden-variety luck of not being affected by someone else's action.

I don't believe my objections are centered around personal loss, and are instead centered around the idea that I have never met anyone who has taken overt offense, but, I don't really know. Our experiences are a black box test with no control group.

[gilrad]

Invoke Prejudice is the most outstanding of those listed and I'm happy to see it go. Most of the others feel a bit like "while we're at it let's do this one too", but I'm not going to let whattaboutisms bog down the real victory here, de-normalizing a card with %$#% imagery made by a %$#% person with a %$#% agenda.

[Sinis]

I mean.

[Atraxian]

*sarcastic mode: engaged*
Oh, so stunning and brave!
Now muslims, gypsies and black people everywhere in the world will have their lives elevated to new levels of equality and social justice, safe from racism and bigotry!
*sarcastic mode: disengaged*

In the meantime Wizards of the Coast sells magic products in China, one of the most racist and bigoted place on the planet.
But hey, I would be called a sinophobe if I pointed that hypocrisy out.

May be, just may be, instead of void virtue signalling they could donate some of their money to rebuild the communities that were destroyed by rioters and looters.
But that would imply they actually cared about minority communities in the US.

[Vessiliana]

As someone brought up outside the US, who lives outside the US, in a nation where, honestly, I have been the victim of actual legal racial discrimination, I ... am just confused.

What is the problem with these cards? I am gathering that the Invoke Prejudice seems to reference the KKK, but I am not sure what the issue with the others is? If Crusade is banned, does that mean that my Bad Moon is also getting banned?

Is Oros, the Avenger actually getting banned, too?

[bobthefunny]

Invoke Prejudice is by far the worst offender, but the Pradesh Gypsies and the Stone-Throwing Devils are both racial slurs as well.

I believe that Crusade is included due to depicting real religious symbols on the card, which further ties the card to the actual real historical context - a genocidal war. I doubt that Honor of the Pure or Bad Moon will be affected.

Jihad follows in the same boat - The art depicts arabian soldiers, which tied with the name reinforces the historical context. In fact, there was another card game published by Wizards called "jyhad" which renamed itself due to sensitivity concerns, as another precedent in similar space.

Cleanse is mainly due to the name and effect, as far as I can tell, with perhaps some of the flavor text thrown in?

I assume Imprison is due to depictions of slavery, especially as early magic art pulled much more heavily from direct real life references.

---

Given the last two, I'm surprised to not see Forced March as evocative of the Trail of Tears - but I suppose the flavor text indicates that the Caterans did it to their own army as a 'screening process' - not to a captured foe.

[Sinis]

As someone brought up outside the US, who lives outside the US, in a nation where, honestly, I have been the victim of actual legal racial discrimination, I ... am just confused.

North American corporations often try to paint themselves in a progressive light to make sales, despite having hypocritical policies elsewhere.

What is the problem with these cards? I am gathering that the Invoke Prejudice seems to reference the KKK, but I am not sure what the issue with the others is? If Crusade is banned, does that mean that my Bad Moon is also getting banned?

Probably not Bad Moon, but if they mean it, there are others I've mentioned in this thread.

Imprison - The art is apparently a reference to a Scold's Bridle.
Crusade - Religious warfare is frowned upon, but Crusade has an ethnic component that could be construed to be too far.
Pradesh Gypsies - Gypsy is considered a slur for Romani people.
Stone-Throwing Devils - This one is complicated; it's a reference to a religious practice called Stoning of the Devil. The implication is that Muslims are devils.
Cleanse - Cleanse in the context of destroying living creatures has a connotation of ethnic cleansing, which is pretty racist. It doesn't help that the card performs that function.
Jihad - For all the same reasons as Crusade.

Is Oros, the Avenger actually getting banned, too?

I honestly can't tell if the tweet I linked above is serious. I doubt Wizards will ever ban Oros, though. It's too much of a reach, and the cards they did ban can be at least construed to have racist depictions or are at least insensitive or in poor taste.

Please note: I'm not in support of the bans. More than anything, I don't believe this solves any problems, it just hides Wizard's past. Some things are a product of their time, and I think that it's good to have historical evidence that we are better now than we used to be.

[Selaya]

There's plenty of games that reference to some kind of a Crusade in a fantasy way so that argument is void.

I mean, I can see them banning both Invoke and Gypsies (tho I'd disagree - Barbra Streisand says hi).

[Sinis]

There's plenty of games that reference to some kind of a Crusade in a fantasy way so that argument is void.

Yeah, a friend of mine was really upset that he couldn't use his Crusade|DDF from Elspeth vs Tezzeret, because it really is a nice piece of art (and doesn't seem all that racist to me).

Like, they didn't get Tivadar's Crusade, which literally has Crusade in the title and functions as an ethnic genocide against goblins.

[pokken]

It's often my first clue someone is in the right these days when they get accused of virtue signalling.

[Sinis]

The first clue someone is in the right these days is when they get accused of virtue signalling.

I'd agree if it was a person. A corporation trying to make sales is a different story.

[Vessiliana]

As someone brought up outside the US, who lives outside the US, in a nation where, honestly, I have been the victim of actual legal racial discrimination, I ... am just confused.

North American corporations often try to paint themselves in a progressive light to make sales, despite having hypocritical policies elsewhere.

What is the problem with these cards? I am gathering that the Invoke Prejudice seems to reference the KKK, but I am not sure what the issue with the others is? If Crusade is banned, does that mean that my Bad Moon is also getting banned?

Probably not Bad Moon, but if they mean it, there are others I've mentioned in this thread.

Imprison - The art is apparently a reference to a Scold's Bridle.
Crusade - Religious warfare is frowned upon, but Crusade has an ethnic component that could be construed to be too far.
Pradesh Gypsies - Gypsy is considered a slur for Romani people.
Stone-Throwing Devils - This one is complicated; it's a reference to a religious practice called Stoning of the Devil. The implication is that Muslims are devils.
Cleanse - Cleanse in the context of destroying living creatures has a connotation of ethnic cleansing, which is pretty racist. It doesn't help that the card performs that function.
Jihad - For all the same reasons as Crusade.

Is Oros, the Avenger actually getting banned, too?

I honestly can't tell if the tweet I linked above is serious. I doubt Wizards will ever ban Oros, though. It's too much of a reach, and the cards they did ban can be at least construed to have racist depictions or are at least insensitive or in poor taste.

Please note: I'm not in support of the bans. More than anything, I don't believe this solves any problems, it just hides Wizard's past. Some things are a product of their time, and I think that it's good to have historical evidence that we are better now than we used to be.

Thank you for the explanation! I appreciate it.

I wasn't actually running any of these cards, though I was considering Bad Moon for a mono-B deck because I was given one of the old-style ones with the moon on it by a friend.