Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 6 months ago

@Dunadain @TheGildedGoose The attack trigger is fine - not much of a build-around, but in general piling cards is a fun mechanic if a bit time consuming (luckily as an attack trigger it usually won't happen too often).

It's the second paragraph I take issue with. Do you actually think Liar's Pendulum becomes a good card if it says "each opponent loses two life"? Especially when your commander is already a pretty effective CA engine, which (1) makes additional draw (something a lot of the cards which involve piles provide) somewhat redundant and (2) makes direct damage less valuable (you're winning the long game via CA, what's the rush to burn everyone down?).

There's also, at least to my searching, not very many cards it applies to, and most of them are pretty expensive to where burning for 2 makes a very small impact on their power level (which was my point with FoF - which incidentally is a fine draw spell in a vacuum, but I wouldn't play it if my commander was a 3-drop that drew a bunch of cards). This isn't exactly a Guttersnipe situation where we can significantly improve the power of a Ponder by tacking 2 damage onto it. Boneyard Parley + shock is maybe 1% better than Boneyard Parley on its own.
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Dunadain
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Post by Dunadain » 6 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
6 months ago
Do you actually think Liar's Pendulum becomes a good card if it says "each opponent loses two life"? Especially when your commander is already a pretty effective CA engine, which (1) makes additional draw (something a lot of the cards which involve piles provide) somewhat redundant and (2) makes direct damage less valuable (you're winning the long game via CA, what's the rush to burn everyone down?).
No, bad card is still bad, but Liar's Pendulum becomes significantly better w/ toymaker.

Meanwhile, the improvement to cards like Boneyard Parley is minimal.

I'm not saying the card is good.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

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Post by Dunadain » 6 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
6 months ago
Dunadain wrote:
6 months ago
I'm not saying the card is good.
It's a massive step up from Atris, Oracle of Half-Truths, I'll tell you what.
By "the card" I was referring to Liar's Pendulum.

The Celestial Toymaker is actually about right power-wise imo.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 6 months ago

For a little off topic of a real format.
Novice Inspector - is Thraben Inspector 4-8 in pauper and I think that actually matters in some decks, good timing with the Murder of Monastery Swiftspear I suppose. I'm actually moving forward with boros All That Glitters .

Now back to silly stuff

Aurelia, the law above is cool a suppose. Weak I suppose, but thats not her problem, its the formats

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Post by yeti1069 » 6 months ago

I think the wording on the ability is awkward, and yeah, it applies to a fairly narrow set of cards. I also don't think pushing players to go dense on choice/pile cards is going to make for enjoyable gameplay.

That said, I also don't think it's terrible. Adding 2 damage to those spells is only irrelevant if your game plan is to win by some means other than bringing everyone to 0 life without an infinite combo. It's not enough of a boost to build around, especially not with how few cards there are that fit into this "archetype", and how few of THOSE are worth playing (and are low enough cost to be able to string multiples together in a turn).

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Post by Ruiner » 6 months ago

Gonna need custom proxies of these Clue characters like Commander Mustard to feature the cast of the classic Clue movie.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 6 months ago

The fourteenth doctor allows the first 5c partner commanders. But it's doctor-tribal (and also really bad) so I doubt too many people will care.
Dunadain wrote:
6 months ago
No, bad card is still bad, but Liar's Pendulum becomes significantly better w/ toymaker.
Honestly if I had to run liar's pendulum I'd rather run it in a deck that lacked CA and so would actually need the draw, vs one that had a draw engine in the CZ.

Once upon a time it might have been borderline playable in Karn, Silver Golem, though ofc these days there are a ton of better options even in mono-brown.
TheGildedGoose wrote:
6 months ago
It's a massive step up from Atris, Oracle of Half-Truths, I'll tell you what.
Honestly, is he though? Atris lets you be the chooser (generally the preferrable role) and as an etb (1) it's reliably going to happen at least once even vs removal and (2) you can synergize with it via blink and such, whereas attack triggers are much harder to get extra copies of. Though at the same time, a 2/4 for 3 isn't so burly in combat that it's a free draw engine - you still probably need to support it via evasion or protection.

Of course toymaker does cost 1 less and he does add an extra color, but Atris is extremely unimpressive as a commander imo so it being anywhere close is not a great sign.
yeti1069 wrote:
6 months ago
That said, I also don't think it's terrible. Adding 2 damage to those spells is only irrelevant if your game plan is to win by some means other than bringing everyone to 0 life without an infinite combo.
Functionally irrelevant.

I'm sure it will matter sometimes but it's very minor text, and what value exists is almost entirely around his own ability, not including other pile/choice cards. If he said "when he attacks, yadda yadda and each opponent loses 2 life" then it would just be an okay value commander, rather than a very halfhearted attempt to make a new archetype happen.
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Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by Serenade » 6 months ago

Generic common spoilers on day one? I, for one, am excited to put Topiary Panther in my Phylath, World Sculptor plant deck.

(Probably the only one)
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 6 months ago

Just a bit off-topic, but my mind has been reeling for the past 6 hours or so because I thought the set's name was Murders At Markov Manor and I was like "man, I understand utilizing the omenpaths but this a bit too far, we've got two paruns from Ravnica in the first batch and nobody from Innistrad. I understand Rakdos wandering off but Aurelia sticking her nose into Innistrad is really odd; does she think she have jurisdiction over Innistrad?"

Then just 10 minutes ago I realized that it said Karlov Manor.
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Post by Mookie » 6 months ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
6 months ago
Just a bit off-topic, but my mind has been reeling for the past 6 hours or so because I thought the set's name was Murders At Markov Manor and I was like "man, I understand utilizing the omenpaths but this a bit too far, we've got two paruns from Ravnica in the first batch and nobody from Innistrad. I understand Rakdos wandering off but Aurelia sticking her nose into Innistrad is really odd; does she think she have jurisdiction over Innistrad?"

Then just 10 minutes ago I realized that it said Karlov Manor.
Meanwhile, I've been spending the last six hours wondering 'where is Teysa Karlov?' and 'who is this Alquist Proft, Master Sleuth guy?'

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Post by NZB2323 » 6 months ago

Last edited by NZB2323 6 months ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by EonAon » 6 months ago

Wojek Investigator seems fairly powerful since yeah its somewhat conditional draw but its draw you can time to always get the best of.

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Post by gsgfdf » 6 months ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
6 months ago
Just a bit off-topic, but my mind has been reeling for the past 6 hours or so because I thought the set's name was Murders At Markov Manor and I was like "man, I understand utilizing the omenpaths but this a bit too far, we've got two paruns from Ravnica in the first batch and nobody from Innistrad. I understand Rakdos wandering off but Aurelia sticking her nose into Innistrad is really odd; does she think she have jurisdiction over Innistrad?"

Then just 10 minutes ago I realized that it said Karlov Manor.
Seriously, I was wondering how on earth did Aurelia end up in Innistrad? :rofl:

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Post by Dragonlover » 6 months ago

Whereas I knew it was on Ravnica, but have been calling it Markov Manor because it rolls off the tongue so much better.

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Post by RxPhantom » 6 months ago

Aurelia, the Law Above is going right into General Ferrous Rokiric. I'm still on the fence with this dossier art treatment, though. On one hand, I'm trying to get as many unique frames into this deck as possible, but on the other...I just don't know if I like it.
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 6 months ago

Pretty hyped, I wanted a WUG clue commander deck and that will be one of the pre-cons.
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Post by Cyberium » 6 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
6 months ago
Dunadain wrote:
6 months ago
I'm not saying the card is good.
It's a massive step up from Atris, Oracle of Half-Truths, I'll tell you what.
In terms of getting cards, Toymaker requires an attack, Atris cane be blinked repeatedly.

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Post by RxPhantom » 6 months ago

Looking at the flavor text for Demand Answers, I think the attempt on Aurelia's life was a false flag* operation conducted by the Boros Legion so they can justify moving against the Rakdos Cult.

*I know this terminology is a dog whistle of sorts, and wasn't my intention.
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Post by kirkusjones » 6 months ago

RxPhantom wrote:
6 months ago
Looking at the flavor text for Demand Answers, I think the attempt on Aurelia's life was a false flag* operation conducted by the Boros Legion so they can justify moving against the Rakdos Cult.

*I know this terminology is a dog whistle of sorts, and wasn't my intention.
Sounds like a win-win for the Golgari.

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Post by duducrash » 6 months ago

RxPhantom wrote:
6 months ago
Looking at the flavor text for Demand Answers, I think the attempt on Aurelia's life was a false flag* operation conducted by the Boros Legion so they can justify moving against the Rakdos Cult.
Hmm, they are cops afterall, does seem in character

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 6 months ago

kirkusjones wrote:
6 months ago
RxPhantom wrote:
6 months ago
Looking at the flavor text for Demand Answers, I think the attempt on Aurelia's life was a false flag* operation conducted by the Boros Legion so they can justify moving against the Rakdos Cult.

*I know this terminology is a dog whistle of sorts, and wasn't my intention.
Sounds like a win-win for the Golgari.
The Golgari are basically non-existent atm, Vraska purposely compleated most of the guild by having Realmbreaker open up in the Undercity as the first strike of the Ravnican Invasion.
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Post by NZB2323 » 6 months ago

RxPhantom wrote:
6 months ago
Looking at the flavor text for Demand Answers, I think the attempt on Aurelia's life was a false flag* operation conducted by the Boros Legion so they can justify moving against the Rakdos Cult.

*I know this terminology is a dog whistle of sorts, and wasn't my intention.
Or it's a false flag by the Dimir, which could be easy to pull off with shapeshifters.
Current Decks
rg Morophon, the infinite Kavu Eowyn, human tribal Legolas, voltron control Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal Neheb, Chicago Bulls tribal Ug Edric pauper

Retired Decks
Edgar Markov Kaalia, angel board wipes Ghen, prison Captain Sisay Ub Nymris, draw go Sarulf, voltron control Niv-Mizzet, combo Winota Sidisi, Zombie Tribal

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 6 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
6 months ago
The fourteenth doctor allows the first 5c partner commanders. But it's doctor-tribal (and also really bad) so I doubt too many people will care.
I'm sorry but technically this is not true. The first 5c partners are Othelm, Sigardian Outcast/Cecily, Haunted Mage. Also very bad and therefore pretty rare, but you gotta give Stranger Things that dubious honor.
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Post by Toshi » 6 months ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
6 months ago
The first 5c partners are Othelm, Sigardian Outcast/Cecily, Haunted Mage. Also very bad
Cries in having that sleeved up and ready to go

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