The Anti-Deck (commander currently undecided)

[Rumpy5897]

The fact that you're perpetually wiping the floor with them in precon wars is rather flabbergasting. I'm not saying you're not a good player, but it takes about two brain cells to figure out the professional strategy of "focus Dirk into the trash", and you'd probably have trouble surviving an outright 3v1 onslaught on equal power footing. I'm surprised you're not getting archenemied out of the gate every single game.

I had a few stints with Xantcha, she didn't transition to paper as I never managed to get the deck to a point where I was truly happy with it. I had trouble doing anything elegant in the final 1v1, but I had fun treating Xantcha as a remote voltron while she still had somewhere to swing. The innate clunkiness of that aspect of the deck may turn out to lead to some interesting gameplay for you. Worth a try at least.

[DirkGently]

@Sefir Homeward Path is one card I'd explicitly not want to run. Kinda defeats the goal of Starke being terrible. This is the anti-deck. Humble defector, sure.

@materpillar This conversation is starting to get kind of tiring. I'm not sure why you're so insistent on arguing this point when I've made my decision clear. This isn't a debate with a right and wrong answer. You don't have an equal voice here. This is my preference for what I want to build and you're completely ignoring my goals.

Yes, cards with few choices will generally have a lower ceiling than a card that provides a lot of choices - and I'm going to hit pretty close to whatever the ceiling for a card is while playing it. But that doesn't mean every card that provides a lot of choices is automatically too powerful. Razor Boomerang provides a lot of choices, between when to recast, activate, which creatures to equip, which things to target, etc. but it's still a terrible card. LSV himself couldn't make razor boomerang outperform some simple but effective beater like Siege Rhino. I'm building a deck of razor boomerangs because that's way more interesting to me than a deck of siege rhinos.

I thought it was clear from context, but I meant that putting a complex, impactful card in the command zone is likely the best place to put it to help my playgroup learn. If they see the same ability being used every turn every game, they're going to pay attention to it and start to integrate it into their planning, such as it is.

@Vertierer Why do people assume that my goal is to build a deck that I'd hate playing? I'm trying to make a crappy deck, not a boring deck. The deck has to (1) suck and (2) be fun for me to play. TWO goals, people, not just the first one.

I honestly think that if you take a deck that has no fast ways to win, insufficient draw to build up a lot of resources, and few enough answers that it can't lock anyone down effectively, it's going to be extremely hard to win with that deck, even versus badly-piloted precons. Being designed for a lobotomy patient is not mandatory.

@Rumpy5897 Oftentimes they will gang up on me, but rarely at the right times. For example, Mike Generous Gifted my commander to ensure I couldn't save him from a board wipe by land-ifying him...while I wasn't really doing anything... And then ofc had no removal on a crucial turn where I made my commander 15 unblockable power and swung at him for lethal. Mike's decent at the rest of the game but jfc removal leaves his hands like it's the change of a kid at a candy store.

Usually it's more an issue of other people becoming way more threatening, and me eventually getting ignored in favor of the dude with a huge board state, though. And then I find some sneaky way to win after doing basically nothing for 20 consecutive turns.

Thanks for the input on Xantcha!

[DirkGently]

I think my top 2 choices are Triad of Fates, playing minor etb effects and using the commander for removal and blinking - lots of fun choices and politics but no realistic way to overpower anyone - and Gluntch, the Bestower playing sort of an asymmetrical hug deck, like Phelddagrif except with a lot more (targeted) hugs and little removal.

[OneOfThoseBeebles]

Hello there.

I'm new here. I was tipped to look at your use case @DirkGently by @Gentle Giant. I was not disappointed . Something came to mind that might help you in your quest.

I recently bumped into a podcast I was unaware of that may be an interesting resource for you. They are called "The Social Contract Podcast". One of the hosts is also one of the people behind the Commander Spellbook website, which I thought was pretty cool.

Anyway, they have took up the responsibility to represent the niche that is lower power group hug politic decks that are still built to win games. This might be an interesting avenue for you to explore (if you haven't already. Sorry, I did not read all your attempts). An example I loved was a Belbe deck that is built to give other players a mana boost during their turn for political gain.

I was thinking if in your playgroup you can't play your game under any circumstance, then maybe you should be playing theirs.

Of course talking to your playgroup about how you play the game and want to have fun is also an option . Maybe you can persuade them to build a deck that matches your preferences for a change?

[Gentle Giant]

Hello there.

I'm new here. I was tipped to look at your use case @DirkGently by @Gentle Giant. I was not disappointed . Something came to mind that might help you in your quest.

I recently bumped into a podcast I was unaware of that may be an interesting resource for you. They are called "The Social Contract Podcast". One of the hosts is also one of the people behind the Commander Spellbook website, which I thought was pretty cool.

Anyway, they have took up the responsibility to represent the niche that is lower power group hug politic decks that are still built to win games. This might be an interesting avenue for you to explore (if you haven't already. Sorry, I did not read all your attempts). An example I loved was a Belbe deck that is built to give other players a mana boost during their turn for political gain.

I was thinking if in your playgroup you can't play your game under any circumstance, then maybe you should be playing theirs.

Of course talking to your playgroup about how you play the game and want to have fun is also an option . Maybe you can persuade them to build a deck that matches your preferences for a change?

Hehe, didn't expect you to try to help Dirk on this, but I don't think it'll be solved that easily without Dirk having to skirt things he likes to play.

[DirkGently]

Hello there.

I'm new here. I was tipped to look at your use case @DirkGently by @Gentle Giant. I was not disappointed . Something came to mind that might help you in your quest.

I recently bumped into a podcast I was unaware of that may be an interesting resource for you. They are called "The Social Contract Podcast". One of the hosts is also one of the people behind the Commander Spellbook website, which I thought was pretty cool.

Anyway, they have took up the responsibility to represent the niche that is lower power group hug politic decks that are still built to win games. This might be an interesting avenue for you to explore (if you haven't already. Sorry, I did not read all your attempts). An example I loved was a Belbe deck that is built to give other players a mana boost during their turn for political gain.

I was thinking if in your playgroup you can't play your game under any circumstance, then maybe you should be playing theirs.

Of course talking to your playgroup about how you play the game and want to have fun is also an option . Maybe you can persuade them to build a deck that matches your preferences for a change?

My Glunch deck is a political huggy-ish build - all the cards need to give my opponents something. It's been a reasonably good match although games can take forever with me keeping the balance of power.

Not sure what you mean by "can't play [my] game". Do you mean deck? If so, I've done that but I win pretty easily most of the time. If you mean "game" in the sense of playing to their level, don't think I can do that lol.

They'd have to build much stronger decks to compete with me playing even a precon tbh, to compensate for the skill disparity. Well, at least for some of them - Mike isn't too bad.

[OneOfThoseBeebles]

Not sure what you mean by "can't play [my] game".

The premise of your quest seems to be that you are going through great lengths to build decks that don't cause you to completely steamroll or upset your playgroup, and that you still find fun to play. This led me to assume that, with your current group, you can't play the game in the way you would actually want to.

If I was the only one in my group who can't play the game in my way and I valued playing with that group. And I also tried everything to meet them in their ballpark, I'd also ask them to do the same for me. So that, at least every once in a while, I can also play in my preferred ballpark with them. It could be a way to break the "hostage situation". Maybe you could lend them some decks. You could even handicap yourself with a less powerful deck while they receive the more powerful ones. I don't know. But if this path you're on doesn't yield the desired result, it's an approach you can consider.

[DirkGently]

The premise of your quest seems to be that you are going through great lengths to build decks that don't cause you to completely steamroll or upset your playgroup, and that you still find fun to play. This led me to assume that, with your current group, you can't play the game in the way you would actually want to.

If I was the only one in my group who can't play the game in my way and I valued playing with that group. And I also tried everything to meet them in their ballpark, I'd also ask them to do the same for me. So that, at least every once in a while, I can also play in my preferred ballpark with them. It could be a way to break the "hostage situation". Maybe you could lend them some decks. You could even handicap yourself with a less powerful deck while they receive the more powerful ones. I don't know. But if this path you're on doesn't yield the desired result, it's an approach you can consider.

They don't prefer to suck. They just suck. I can't force them to play without sucking.

I could loan them decks but (1) I'd still need to play a deck weaker than the decks I loan out to have an even game (2) I don't generally build multiple concurrent decks, I disassemble and build new ones, and most importantly (3) just because I give them a good deck doesn't mean they'll be good at playing it. I don't generally build my decks with user friendliness in mind. They'll most likely spend ages reading the cards and miss the good lines.

I guess I could build brand new, strong, easy-to-play decks and then loan them out, but that seems like a lot of work and idk if they'd want to use them anyway. Idk, maybe building one decent deck could be useful if I can convince John to play it. Maybe something zombie tribal. At least then he can see what a real deck feels like to play.

[Chromaticus]

I am currently in a similar position Dirk, with an after work playgroup of people who happen to know how to play magic at my workplace.

One is my best friend, who has an in depth knowledge of the game and who gives me a run for my money every time. Problem is that he has only one deck (currently working on more) that I built for him.

The other few players are very new to the game. My potential solution that I'm trying is building decks for them and just getting strong cardboard in their hands. Make Playing Cards is key here, so no real cost.

I want to play "my game" and not pubstomp, so arming them seems like the only way to avoid just stomping a Wyleth precon.

[ISBPathfinder]

Hummmmm you have quite the list of requirements you are aiming for. If I have the gist right (which I don't know that I do) you want something that is a slow gradual threat that doesn't go wide or go too heavy into control. Its a tough list of requirements being slow and steady without burst potential but also not dipping into the control elements which would help you ensure your opponents don't do this either.

I guess I could see some sort of voltron hatebears concept working out though. I can't nail down any exact commanders and that is assuming hatebears is even acceptable. I personally play a Rayami, First of the Fallen list that checks some of your boxes but I play him with a control angle rooted in sweepers. I do like getting a hexproof, flying, vigilant, lifelink, trampling, indestructible commander though as it picks up a lot of inevitability while also not allowing a lot of targeting potential once he does pick up his keywords. I get the feeling that you are aiming for a lower power stance than this but he starts out with no abilities and a lot of the creatures you can or could run for this are really kind of bad is part of why I thought it might be worth a consideration. You can also avoid any keywords you feel might be too powerful or annoying in your own list. Its kind of fun to run a bunch of random crap like Wilson, Refined Grizzly in your 99.

The hardest part is getting past that you want a slow and steady concept but also to not be rooted in control which is generally how I would enable a slow and steady concept so that someone else doesn't just drop their victory cards on my face. I am a big fan of slow and steady but I am a bigger fan of not dying out of nowhere to lame combo stuff.

[NZB2323]

I think my Edric, Spymaster of Trest commons only in the 99 fits the criteria.

-No bursty win conditions. The deck wins by attacking with 1/1s. There are no extra turns because all the extra turn spells are rares.

-No hidden board state. The deck doesn't run Beastmaster Ascension because that card is a rare.

-Not too much removal. There are 0 board wipes, because Cyclonic Rift is a rare. If they hate counterspells they might get salty, but if they hate board wipes I usually hold up counterspells to counter board wipes. The deck does play more than 10 pieces of interaction but you could cut some cards. This is the interaction:

• Nature's claim
• Return to Nature
• Broken Bond
• Caustic caterpillar
• Masked Vandal
• Witness protection
• Lignify
• Snap
• Counterspell
• Essence Scatter
• Negate
• Disdainful Stroke
• Spellstutter Sprite
• Foil

[DirkGently]

Managed to pull off a win with my SNC-only Falco Spara, Pactweaver deck. It was a pretty awesome game tbh. Super close.

Then played 2 games with the Maestros precon and absolutely dominated both times. I would have played something different in the last game except that Mike said he had to leave soonish and my crappy constructed decks generally lead to very long games. Sigh...

The hardest part is getting past that you want a slow and steady concept but also to not be rooted in control which is generally how I would enable a slow and steady concept so that someone else doesn't just drop their victory cards on my face. I am a big fan of slow and steady but I am a bigger fan of not dying out of nowhere to lame combo stuff.

I think you might have missed some crucial context. The whole point of the deck (and the reason I think being slow and steady is important) is that I want the deck to suck. If they "drop a victory card on my face" that's fine. They're not playing any "lame combo stuff", or any 1-card-wins like expropriate.

It could eventually become an issue if they step their game up - I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Right now if I play anything other than total garbage my winrate is 90%+.

[Sefir]

@DirkGently you inspired me into re-building my Mathas deck into a similar concept and I thank you for that. Here is the list. Still untested, so I am not sure if it will work in a different manner than yours (more card draw and less ramp I suppose?), but I would love to hear any reccommendations you might have.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5074567#paper

[DirkGently]

@Sefir I mean, the anti-deck is kinda impervious to recommendation because its goal isn't to become stronger. Obviously there are plenty of subpar cards, but that's kinda the point. I'd say it just boils down to which cards you personally find fun or unfun to play, and whether it matches the power level you're aiming for.