5c Mana Base

[materpillar]

I'm currently working on a 5c mana base. Every other time I've built 5c I've had some guidance on the lands that I put into it. A pile of typal lands for my Changeling deck. All the bounce lands for my dredge deck. All dual face cards for my esika. Once I have those slots taken up the rest of the lands are just whatever I can scrounge up to my the deck actually function.

I'm building a deck right now where the theme doesn't eat into 10-15+ slots of the mana base. I'm not planning on running every fetch because I find that much shuffling to be an absolute pain. What's the best mana base I can build without any fetches?

I know fetches + duals and some triomes is the "best" mana base. Is there a clear second best?

[pokken]

This is a really hard question; the only 5c manabase I have kept consistently is my storage lands manabase with Kenrith, the Returned King which is a Bant based manabase (really UGw) with splashes of black and red, but has a storage land theme (https://deckbox.org/sets/3353727)

So without a land theme, I start like this:

1. identify the core color that you are using for ramp and early game fixing. This color is usually green, blue, or white but it could be red for treasury / looting stuff or black for early card draw spells.

2. add all the 5c lands that don't annoy me. for me this is

• mana confluence
• city of brass
• the world tree
• forbidden orchard
• exotic orchard
• command tower

sometimes Aether Hub and Spire of Industry, sometimes Ally Encampment or Holdout Settlement
sometimes Gemstone Caverns if I have a spare.

sometimes Gemstone Mine but usually not (unless it sacrificing might benefit me)

but never Tarnished Citadel - just does too much damage for my taste in design.

3. add the "make every land a land' effects of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth since they help so much and are usually good. I'd cut Urborg if I didn't have any BB spells, but I almost always have a GG spell

4. add the triomes and trilands that make my core colors; this usually means 3 of each if you have them

in Kenrith this is (because it's on a budget) Opulent Palace Seaside Citadel and Frontier Bivouac (all the UGx lands). I would play the triomes instead if I had extras.

5. add a handful of the good fetches that get my primary colors - like 4 forest fetches for example

6. add abur and shocklands that make my primary colors
e.g. add all the green shocks and duals in a green primary deck

7. add 2-5 basics so I don't get wrecked by path to exile. in a Cultivate deck, this step adds closer to 8 basics (4 primary, and 1 of each color)

8. fiddle around from there
Stuff like Chromatic Lantern is fuine
I run Bootleggers' Stash in Kenrith to help fix some of the nonsense problems with the storage lands (as a Trophy Mage target)

I usually wind up with a lot of rocks and dorks in a 5c deck just because they fix so well, stuff like Gilded Lotus can fix a lot of bad games same with Coalition Relic and Chromatic Lantern

[darrenhabib]

Even though you say the theme doesn't dictate your mana, the 99 still matters a lot. How many early plays are necessary and is that skewed to particular colors?
My 5-color Niv-Mizzet Reborn deck doesn't have any plays until turn three so I can afford quite a few tapped lands.
Most decks have some type of ramp, so what's your choice for this deck, if any?

[Treamayne]

What's the best mana base I can build without any fetches?

I built an excel sheet that calculates color percentage and helps classify how many lands need to produce each color. If I'm not running any fetches, then I prefer looking at non-typed "duals" - preferably starting with a 10-card cycle (if available). I'll also start with three of each basic, adjust to color weights, then adjust the remainder as I find other 2/3/5 color non-basics to fill it out. Example:

SPOILER

Show

Hide

Note: The "Casting and Activation" is based on color identity (so, for example, Vault of the Archangel counts as a BW "cost."

[Ruiner]

I have only built one 5 color deck (Progenitus), and I've had reasonable results running all 10 Battlebond style duals, and all 10 shocklands, with a number of normal 5 color staples like The World Tree, City of Brass, etc.,. I have spare fetches and ABU duals but just wanted to do something different. It's a fairly "balanced" base that with the remaining lands leans a little more towards green (still running all 5 basic types) since that is pretty much the most important color to get decent fixing.

[materpillar]

Even though you say the theme doesn't dictate your mana, the 99 still matters a lot. How many early plays are necessary and is that skewed to particular colors?
My 5-color Niv-Mizzet Reborn deck doesn't have any plays until turn three so I can afford quite a few tapped lands.
Most decks have some type of ramp, so what's your choice for this deck, if any?

It's going to be my full proxy Madoka themed alter deck. Something along this line.
viewtopic.php?t=241841

I just started photoshopping the first few cards. The list is far from solidified Thus, I can't do the color balance/analysis yet but I think it's going to be pretty balanced between all colors. It's also just going to be a lower power goodstuff-ish list. My idea is something that's unmodified precon level because it doesn't have strong synergies. But I figured I'd give it the best mana base possible since it's going to be full proxy.

I've heard people on this forum mention that fetch+duals+triomes is the best mana base (which I agree with). I was wondering if there was such a clear consensus on the second best.

[pokken]

At a high level if you're not running fetches you need to commit to a heavy mana rock, mana dork, or green search ramp profile and let that dictate your mana.

My personal favorite though is forcing karoos and white come from behind ramp stuff. :D it's super bad though. Can do some work with amulet of vigor bros and stuff.

But what is best is fundamentally dictated by your ramp strategy. There is no playable 5c manabase that is any good without fetches or focusing on a ramp/fixing strategy first.

[RxPhantom]

If you're heavy on taplands, there's always Spelunking. Anyway, Reflecting Pool seems to have been left out of the discussion, so don't forget to add that to your list.

Without fetches, I think I'd be inclined to run shocks, checks and any 5C options you may like. Probably heavy on rocks too, as others have said.

[DirkGently]

I think shocks/checks/other dual lands are actually quite weak for 5c. Shocks are good because they're fetch targets. Without fetches, big meh.

My preference would be to focus on a single color as my fixing color (so, probably green), or use a primary color which can get the deck moving (i.e. blue with lots of draw/filter, or just any color that comprises a high % of your nonlands) and emphasize that color land-wise to reduce the number of uncastables in my hand.

If that's not an option, then I think the focus should be on rainbow mana, damn the cost - so city of brass and all that. There are lots of okayish 3mv rocks that give rainbow as well, if that's not too slow for you. Trilands could be good - they're a lot better than duals - but etbt is a significant cost so it depends on context. If you really can't afford 3mv rocks or etbt lands then, beyond the rainbow lands, you're mostly stuck with duals, which are too unreliable in 5c imo.

Basically you can go fast or reliable but not both (without fetches).

[PrimevalCommander]

My personal path to semi-budget 5c mana base is the heavy-green route. This is how I set it up, but I am doing to try the way @Ruiner did it with 10 non-typed duals like Battlebond lands or Slow lands with some Shocks when I complete my set of Battlebond lands.

Anyway, here is my current 5c mana base.
6 non-green fetches, that gives my fetches more options to color fix. Replace with Check lands on a budget.
6 green Triomes
4 green Shock Lands
4 forests
4 other basics (plains, mountain, island, swamp)
4-6 rainbow lands
4 other dual-types lands of your choice, Surveil lands are now top of the list. Or finish off the Checkland Cycle.
Every green ramp that specifically targets "Forest"
Farseek Three Visits Nature's Lore Wood Elves Arcane Signet Skyshroud ClaimCultivate Kodama's Reach Expedition Map

Alternate way that I am going to try out soon.
10 shocks
10 Battlebond lands or slow lands
8 basic lands
6 rainbow lands
4 flex slots
Farseek Three Visits Nature's Lore Arcane Signet

Super Budget would go back to the heavy green, but replace shocks, fetches, and triomes with the common dual-typed lands or the Tango, Bicycle lands, or whatever you can get your hands on. Check lands work well here since once you fetch a couple duals, all check lands enter untapped. So it would probably be something like this.
10 check lands
10 budget dual-type duals. Commons, Tango, Bicycle, Surveil
8 basics
Terramorphic Expanse Evolving Wilds Escape Tunnel Exotic Orchard Command Tower
4-6 cheapest triomes you can find. Or some of the cheaper Pain Lands.

[pokken]

10 shocks
10 Battlebond lands or slow lands

I think you'll find this to be horrible. There's no way it'll be balanced. I'd play the color picking gates and thriving lands over off-color pairs you won't use much.


But I really strongly agree with your Farseek manabase and think that is almost surely the best way to go :D (With Glimmervoid manabase being a close second)

Interesting point about playing non-green fetches to maximize your flexibility too. Not sure I agree with that because it puts you in a situation where Arid Mesa can't get you black mana untapped, which is why I would prefer playing Misty Rainforest that can get Overgrown Tomb for example.

[PrimevalCommander]

10 shocks
10 Battlebond lands or slow lands

I think you'll find this to be horrible. There's no way it'll be balanced. I'd play the color picking gates and thriving lands over off-color pairs you won't use much.


But I really strongly agree with your Farseek manabase and think that is almost surely the best way to go :D (With Glimmervoid manabase being a close second)

Interesting point about playing non-green fetches to maximize your flexibility too. Not sure I agree with that because it puts you in a situation where Arid Mesa can't get you black mana untapped, which is why I would prefer playing Misty Rainforest that can get Overgrown Tomb for example.

Makes sense about the 10 shocks and 10 bond lands. That might be better with a more artifact heavy ramp package to offset the randomness of colors being drawn. But overall I don't like being too rock dependent. Cutting splash color pairs is a more efficient way to look at it, especially if we are not going the 10 fetch + 10 shock route.

True, the non-green fetches will not find as many untapped colors that I might need, but to Dirk's mention, I can either be fast or reliable, and I'm trading a bit of speed for reliability there since once I fetch 2-3 duals, all the green sides become irrelevant so I want ways to maximize my ability to fix colors. With the triomes, every fetch can find any color I need, though it might be tapped that turn. It is in a Sliver deck that has a reasonably aggressive curve, but it's fine if I have a few lands enter tapped. Such is life of a 5 color mana base if you don't want to monopolize game time with 1-2 seach effects per turn

I have been dabbling in the white catch-up ramp package in Mono-white, but nothing multicolor yet, and I have not gone full tilt since I don't have many fetch options in mono-white. I am putting in a Guildless commons and maybe even a Arid Archway if it works out. 1/2 my ramp turns off if I find a Sword of the Animist since that card ramps me hard in that deck.

[pokken]

I have been dabbling in the white catch-up ramp package in Mono-white, but nothing multicolor yet, and I have not gone full tilt since I don't have many fetch options in mono-white. I am putting in a Guildless commons and maybe even a Arid Archway if it works out. 1/2 my ramp turns off if I find a Sword of the Animist since that card ramps me hard in that deck.

I have had significant success with the white catchup package in Orzhov and Esper decks, coupled with a little fetch ramp it can get wild. The Lotus Field lands comboing with Brought Back is bananas (and would work in 5c as well).

I think you could definitely play karoo.dec with a bunch of plains duals/triomes and Tithe and such. Cartographer's Hawk can put some serious work in and Archaeomancer's Map is great with karoos.

Man I feel the urge to do that :D Wonder what kinda commander would be good for 5c caroos, maybe Ramos, Dragon Engine? Codie, Vociferous Codex seems possible actually since it brings fixing as well. Jegantha, the Wellspring could be pretty solid for fixing as well and casting off just green is solid. humm.

[3drinks]

How budget are we going? "5c g" is typically the de facto response to this style of question. Top of my head, I might lean;

Cmd Twr
Exotic Orchard
Path of Ancestry
Grand Coliseum (city of brass is like $15 for...reasons)
Reflecting Pool is pretty cheap pending version
This is a pretty alright corre, but if you really need more you could probably get away with one of the Rupture Spire variants. I wouldn't play more than one though.
Painlands and Checklands are both super cheap right now and likely the best untyped fixing you'll get your hands on. Filters are relatively cheap pending which colours you want.
After this I'd lean into the into the north, three visits, and nature's lore trinity with skyshroud claim and ranger's path to supplement. There's fifteen snow duals to choose from (you probably don't want all of them I wouldn't think) but some mix plus 1-2 of each snow basic gives you more than enough to use arcum's astrolabe to help smooth out your colours even moreso. You can even use Prophetic Prism if you want a second astrolabe.
Oh right, don't forget your Krosan Tusker|ons and Yavimaya Elder|uds. Such amazing gifts.

This should bring you to forty lands I'd think.

[materpillar]

How budget are we going? "5c g" is typically the de facto response to this style of question. Top of my head, I might lean;

Cmd Twr
Exotic Orchard
Path of Ancestry
Grand Coliseum (city of brass is like $15 for...reasons)
Reflecting Pool is pretty cheap pending version
This is a pretty alright corre, but if you really need more you could probably get away with one of the Rupture Spire variants. I wouldn't play more than one though.
Painlands and Checklands are both super cheap right now and likely the best untyped fixing you'll get your hands on. Filters are relatively cheap pending which colours you want.
After this I'd lean into the into the north, three visits, and nature's lore trinity with skyshroud claim and ranger's path to supplement. There's fifteen snow duals to choose from (you probably don't want all of them I wouldn't think) but some mix plus 1-2 of each snow basic gives you more than enough to use arcum's astrolabe to help smooth out your colours even moreso. You can even use Prophetic Prism if you want a second astrolabe.
Oh right, don't forget your Krosan Tusker|ons and Yavimaya Elder|uds. Such amazing gifts.

This should bring you to forty lands I'd think.

It's going to be fully proxy so no budget. I just have fetches in a large pile of my decks and really dislike how they can slow down the game sometimes. This deck is going to be aiming for a slightly lower power level so the consistency doesn't have to be quite as demanding on the mana. Hence I'm aiming for best mana base not requiring fetches.

[PrimevalCommander]

I forgot about Krosan Verge + Triomes, which gets all 5 colors across 2 lands. Depending on if you consider this a "Fetch", but it is the best fixer in 5-color triomes and now I'm not sure I even have it in my deck. Will fix that soon.

[3drinks]

How budget are we going? "5c g" is typically the de facto response to this style of question. Top of my head, I might lean;

Cmd Twr
Exotic Orchard
Path of Ancestry
Grand Coliseum (city of brass is like $15 for...reasons)
Reflecting Pool is pretty cheap pending version
This is a pretty alright corre, but if you really need more you could probably get away with one of the Rupture Spire variants. I wouldn't play more than one though.
Painlands and Checklands are both super cheap right now and likely the best untyped fixing you'll get your hands on. Filters are relatively cheap pending which colours you want.
After this I'd lean into the into the north, three visits, and nature's lore trinity with skyshroud claim and ranger's path to supplement. There's fifteen snow duals to choose from (you probably don't want all of them I wouldn't think) but some mix plus 1-2 of each snow basic gives you more than enough to use arcum's astrolabe to help smooth out your colours even moreso. You can even use Prophetic Prism if you want a second astrolabe.
Oh right, don't forget your Krosan Tusker|ons and Yavimaya Elder|uds. Such amazing gifts.

This should bring you to forty lands I'd think.

It's going to be fully proxy so no budget. I just have fetches in a large pile of my decks and really dislike how they can slow down the game sometimes. This deck is going to be aiming for a slightly lower power level so the consistency doesn't have to be quite as demanding on the mana. Hence I'm aiming for best mana base not requiring fetches.

Oh. So in that case you're looking for Tower, Pool, Cavern of Souls, Exotic Orchard, City of Brass, Mana Confluence then Pains, Filters, Battlebonds, Slow Lands (haunted ridge et al). Sprinkle a strip mine effect or two and 1-2x of each basic and you're good to go.

[CommanderMaster999]

Likely proxy if your budget is not good but I shall load you sources since quite a bit of my decks are 5-color

Besides
Dual/triple land with basic land types (particuarlly shocks and triomes)
Fetchlands (ones from Onslaught and Zendikar in particular)

This is your 5-color package of choices

Necessary
Command Tower
Exotic Orchard
The World Tree

Depends on deck necessity's

• Path of Ancestry
• Cavern of Souls
• Corrupted Crossroads
• Unclaimed Territory
• Secluded Courtyard
• Spire of Industry
• Glimmervoid
• Gateway Plaza

Optional

• City of brass
• Reflecting pool
• Cactus Preserve
• Mana Confluence
• Forbidden Orchard
• Cascading Cataracts
• Rupture spire
• Grand Coliseum
• Transguild Promenade
• Thran Quarry
• Meteor Crater
• Ancient Ziggurat
• Pillar of the Paruns
• Planar Nexus