Power creep in the command zone - interesting article

[Rumpy5897]

With regards to 5c specifically, I guess once the first dumdum dropped they just figured screw it and kept going. Seeing how busted 5c existed already, it's not like any new barriers were broken. Still, Golos is a step above stuff like First Sliver or Kenrith as you can seriously run him anywhere. Just slam Cascading Cataracts into your 99, and handily fetch it with your commander! Wow!

Ok, I'm done venting about Golos. Probably. Sorry

[materpillar]

I think that this is a format that if your goal is to break it, you will. All commanders are viable if you and others aren't trying to break things. The more ramp, draw, and combo you see in your metas probably the less casual friendly its going to be.

While this is true, it takes a fair amount of self-control to intentionally play sub-optimal commanders and cards. Even if no one is trying to break the format, legendary creatures that naturally pull their deckbuilders towards breaking the format making it much harder to not break the format. I know that's really redundant sounding. For example. it's hard to build Chulane in a way that doesn't break things, since his existing in the command zone presents a ton of ramp, draw and potentially combo. So the moment someone picks him as a general, if they're not dramatically self-policing, his mere existence is going to make the meta-game around him significantly less casual friendly. I know I'm hating on Chulane a lot, but that's because I hate Chulane a lot. He's just the most egregious example to me, the more commanders that they release that need self-policing the harder and harder it is to maintain a casual friendly format.

[pokken]

With regards to 5c specifically, I guess once the first dumdum dropped they just figured screw it and kept going. Seeing how busted 5c existed already, it's not like any new barriers were broken. Still, Golos is a step above stuff like First Sliver or Kenrith as you can seriously run him anywhere. Just slam Cascading Cataracts into your 99, and handily fetch it with your commander! Wow!

Ok, I'm done venting about Golos. Probably. Sorry

busted 5c generals in the last few years

• ramos, dragon engine
• sisay, weatherlight captain
• najeela, the blade blossom
• the first sliver
• niv-mizzet reborn
• golos, tireless pilgrim
• jodah, archmage eternal
• morophon, the boundless
• general tazri
• kenrith, the returned king

Crap is seriously out of control.

Several different archetypes from food chain, combat step combo, infinite mana outlet, crazy ramp, toolbox, etc etc.

[DirkGently]

The problem really is with commanders, like marchesa, who are very on/off. Probably my best example of a commander like this would be shirei, shizo's caretaker

I just wanted to give you props for really pithily describing this concept I've struggled against myself a lot.

This concept of on/off commanders culminates with monsters like brago, king eternal and animar, soul of elements for me. I hate playing against those decks because I'm always the bad guy gilded drakeing their commander so they can't play. But then when I don't they go off in explosive fashion and there's no recovering.

I try never to build commanders like this; my Golos decks even, despite Golos being part of this phenomenon, are pretty bad and generally don't generate overwhelming power from Golos since they can only ever activate him once a turn due to the mono-color limitation. Every time I do I wind up regretting it.

Brago and animar are definitely among the worse offenders of this phenomenon, yes. Although some animar decks can at least play a bit without him.

A conversation I once overheard in an LGS: "Gitrog Monster is my favourite commander. If I ever untap with him, I win."

This, to me, is a perfect encapsulation of everything I despise about commander. Commanders who are so broken that the only way to fight against them is to never let them live for even a single turn cycle, and players who are too clueless to see how painfully unfun that is to play against.

What annoys me the most about that overheard conversation was the smugness. Yes, good job, you correctly identified that gitrog monster is a stupid broken card. A commander so busted he cannot even be suffered to live. And that's WHY he likes him. Not because he does something fun or because he creates interesting situations, but because he gives his opponents a binary choice between never letting him do anything, or letting him instantly win. And he was so proud of that, like he solved the %$#%$#% format.

And yet I've played against people like that, and if you keep removing their commander, they're going to whine about how you're picking on them, and look at how they can't do anything, and you're being such a bully. Well, dude, play something else then. Play something that doesn't make me be a bully. Play something because it's fun or interesting, instead of just because it's powerful.

@pokken

While a lot of those commanders have made splashes in cEDH, and ofc just having access to 5 colors is a huge advantage in a format was such powerful fixing, are they really all "busted"? I mean sure, Tazri in cEDH is a powerful combo deck, but Tazri in a casual table is generally an imminently fair ally tribal. Personally I don't really mind them printing 5c commanders that push towards a janky theme, even if they can be abused in cEDH. cEDH gonna abuse, that's how they do - it doesn't really move the dial much for me.

[pokken]

And yet I've played against people like that, and if you keep removing their commander, they're going to whine about how you're picking on them, and look at how they can't do anything, and you're being such a bully. Well, dude, play something else then. Play something that doesn't make me be a bully. Play something because it's fun or interesting, instead of just because it's powerful.

I have definitely been on the receiving end of salt for gilded draking (or repeatedly killing) brago, animar, zur, urza, sen triplets, etc. etc. My answer to that has become "You play <> you get what you get."

It's a really frustrating position to be put in, and part of it is on Wizards' design team. I don't know why they need to do what they do.

It feels like there's really not much we can do about it at this point except try to exercise restraint ourselves and hope other people do likewise I'm honestly just about done "let me untap with this card I always have accessible and I win" as a strategy.

While a lot of those commanders have made splashes in cEDH, and ofc just having access to 5 colors is a huge advantage in a format was such powerful fixing, are they really all "busted"? I mean sure, Tazri in cEDH is a powerful combo deck, but Tazri in a casual table is generally an imminently fair ally tribal. Personally I don't really mind them printing 5c commanders that push towards a janky theme, even if they can be abused in cEDH. cEDH gonna abuse, that's how they do - it doesn't really move the dial much for me.

@DirkGently -- My opinion is yes, having played against every single one in casual and many in CEDH as well.
edit - I guess they range from really dumb and annoyingingly hamfisted to downright oppressive? I dunno.

* Ramos - I have seen 3 ramos decks that I recall, 2 of them superfriends proliferate decks and one some kind of weird control-combo shell that just killed people with Ramos but had a bunch of weird wincons like casting Conflux and winning in one turn. All of them were oppressive by virtue of the insane amount of mana ramp Ramos represents if he sticks, plus being a gigantic stupid flier.

The superfriends ones were the worst on account of mass land destruction interacting with being able to bank 10 mana on Ramos.

* Sisay - I've seen 4 or so sisay decks; even the casual one was just nonsense with the constant tutoring for crap, but of course 2 of them were superfriends with a tutor in the command zone. Hooray. the other one was just legendary goodstuff, and he was mostly focused on sticking an untap effect like seedborn muse and spamming legends at instant speed. Shades of Prophet of Kruphix.
instant speed tutoring that doesn't have to cast in the command zone BLAH.

* Najeela - I've seen two, one CEDH that was just strong and two in casual warrior tribal that just threatened to steamroll the table every moment najeela was on board (and also had a couple of the two card combos)

* First Sliver - only seen this one in CEDH.

* Niv Reborn - only seen in CEDH, but I drafted a few casual toolbox decks with it and the ridiculous value of 5 mana draw 5 in the command zone is just insane.

* Golos - I have 5 golos decks. They're bad mono colored decks and they still steamroll sometimes. I've seen other people's 5 color lands decks and it's frigging obnoxious. Herp derp activating golos until I win this turn style.

* Jodah - I didn't find Jodah that ridiculously oppressive but it was very strong for a 5c deck - basically not having to ramp far past 5 mana to start windmill slamming bombs like Omniscience, etc. Pretty hard to mess up though in medium power level.

* Morophon - The two builds I saw were fist of the suns spam (combo) and tribal gods. Tribal gods was...fine I guess? I dunno. I think he's probably the least oppressive of any of them but so stupid boring. The combo deck was really annoying. Herp derp my general is basically infinite mana hold on while I tutor for my entire deck and try to explain a win condition. I can't even remember what is tribal was, maybe humans?

* General Tazri - only seen this one in CEDH but could you imagine how powerful that allies deck would be from an inevitability standpoint? Your general is overwhelming stampede. And p.s. I can tutor for haste guy. Tutors in the command zone are dumb.

* kenrith - only seen in CEDH, but not hard to picture him being pretty crazy in casuals. Just the raw amount of CA in the zone plus always having access to haste, plus an infinite mana outlet. I started brewing a CVT (creature value toolbox) deck and just stopped when I realized how impossible it would be to stop -- my general can give my combo pieces haste, reanimate them, and pump them. Bleh.

[MeowZeDung]

This concept of on/off commanders culminates with monsters like brago, king eternal and animar, soul of elements for me. I hate playing against those decks because I'm always the bad guy gilded drakeing their commander so they can't play. But then when I don't they go off in explosive fashion and there's no recovering.

It's why I included Frogify and Imprisoned in the Moon in my daughter's Alela, Artful Provocateur deck, and one of the several reasons I'm keeping Role Reversal in my Kykar list besides some other more powerful options waiting in the wings. "Permanent" commander removal is just necessary against some of the easy mode commanders printed in the last 5 years or so.

I think Commander card specific power creep is definitely a thing, but I also think that it's an extremely valid point that the recent popularity of Atraxa, Korvold, Chulane, Yarok, etc. don't undo the power level of some of the old guard. Arcum, Prossh, Uril, Oloro, Ghave, etc., are still potent options that can hold their own.

---

A lot of folks are saying that Partner was a mistake. I'm not sure I agree, although I understand why the sentiment exists. I like the Partner mechanic, and I play Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder + Kraum, Ludevic's Opus and don't find it overpowered in the slightest. I think the mistake WotC made with Partner wasn't the mechanic itself, but rather putting that mechanic on hax mode legendaries like Thrasios, Triton Hero and Tymna the Weaver. Can anyone honestly say that Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa, Akiri, Line-Slinger, Tana, the Bloodsower, or Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker are problematic? I guess a close analogy would be that Soulbond wasn't a busted mechanic at all, but the ability that Soulbond gives to Deadeye Navigator and the other creature was pushed a bit much.

[Cyberium]

The fact that WotC is turning an entire year of 2020 into a Commander fest shows that they are going to dedicate a lot more effort in promoting this format. Hence, they've also become evermore responsible for maintaining its balance, printing cards in consideration to the ups and downs of EDH, even if it's not a tournament format.

If they're going to print more precons, I'd prefer WotC emphasize on empowering weaker colors/archetypes in this format (such as combat), and more ways to counter tutor/ramp, similar to how Standard expansions would attempt to "fix" the previous by printing cards that handles them (for example, Ash Zealot).

[Serenade]

Perhaps we need to bring back the tuck and clone rules to combat problem generals.

[ilovesaprolings]

A lot of folks are saying that Partner was a mistake. I'm not sure I agree, although I understand why the sentiment exists. I like the Partner mechanic, and I play Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder + Kraum, Ludevic's Opus and don't find it overpowered in the slightest. I think the mistake WotC made with Partner wasn't the mechanic itself, but rather putting that mechanic on hax mode legendaries like Thrasios, Triton Hero and Tymna the Weaver. Can anyone honestly say that Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa, Akiri, Line-Slinger, Tana, the Bloodsower, or Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker are problematic? I guess a close analogy would be that Soulbond wasn't a busted mechanic at all, but the ability that Soulbond gives to Deadeye Navigator and the other creature was pushed a bit much.

I can use the same logic to say that storm is fine because of ground rift and dredge is fine because of grave-shell scarab.
The concept of partner is "i have two commanders while the others have only one". Mentalities like this while designing a mechanic can't lead to a healty format.

[MeowZeDung]

I can use the same logic to say that storm is fine because of ground rift and dredge is fine because of grave-shell scarab.
The concept of partner is "i have two commanders while the others have only one". Mentalities like this while designing a mechanic can't lead to a healty format.

Yeah, but if the two commanders are Tana and Ishai is this really an issue?

I get that there is a definite edge in terms of consistency, but had they designed all the Partner commanders to be weaker with this added consistency in mind instead of card advantage machines like thras/tymna, we wouldn't be having this conversation. They made a definite error, but it wasn't with the mechanic itself, it was with the power of some of the creatures they slapped the mechanic onto.

And yes, the logic follows with other mechanics, as I said with my Soulbond/Deadeye example. Slapping Storm on something doesn't automatically make it broken. When was the last time you lost to Wing Shards? Again, the problem is not the mechanic, but rather the power level of the card they put that mechanic onto. Same with Golgari Grave-Troll. I'm not saying the mechanics aren't powerful because they obviously are, but it matters what the base power level of the card they are applied to is. My whole point is the latter was WotC's error rather than the former. Soulbond, Storm, Dredge, Delve, etc. are friggin cool even if WotC took it too far on a handful of cards. Same with Partner.

[pokken]

Perhaps we need to bring back the tuck and clone rules to combat problem generals.

I really don't like how tuck is confined to two colors but the spirit of this idea is good.

An escalating commander tax or a mandatory turn break even (like if your commander dies you can't recast until a complete turn without it) might work.

Some kind of general rule to make commander removal meaningful would be a fairer approach imho.

[hyalopterouslemur]

For adding more colors, yeah, it's more that mana will always get better; the question is consistency. (Answer? Play Blood Moon and watch the 4/5-color players cry.) Do I have a commander, someone I can access on a regular basis, that fits with this, or is it like Hermit Druid playing Scion of the Ur-Dragon just because it's five-color and provides a Plan C. And the same is true of power creep.

Part of it is also that players exclude answers. If I see Gaea's Cradle or Growing Rites of Itlimoc, it's going down, either by destroying it or by going Back to Basics or such. If I see an opponent playing Comet Storm, I'd better have a counter ready. Can we no longer pretend that lands or the stack is some sacred inviolate part of the game because muh spirit?

[NZB2323]

I see a lot of people complaining about 5 colored commanders, but I feel like these mono colored commanders are just as powerful:

• Urza, high lord artificer
• Yisan, the wanderer bard
• Yawgmoth, thran physician
• K'rrik, son of Yawgmoth
• Kiki-Jiki, mirror breaker
• Krenko, mob boss

I've also seen a lot of people complain about partner. Tymna and Thrasios is broken, and maybe they could ban it as a partner combination, but partner allows so many unique builds to be made. The other thing is not every commander need to be built 100% optimized. I run a cleric tribal deck with Tymna and Ravos, a pauper(only commons) deck with Edric, and a Kavu-only infinite combo deck with Morophon. I can usually adjust my power level to fit the table that I'm playing at.

And power creep is going to happen in any non-rotating format. They've also done a good job of printing answers.

[Dragoon]

To quote Sheldon, "The secret of this format is in not breaking it." It seems like most of you play in slightly toxic metas. EDH is meant as a social experience. If you want to break it, you will be able to. There's no real efficient way to prevent it and it has been like that since the beginning, even before Wizards published the first precons. Discussing first with the players what everyone is looking for in a game is the only remedy I know of.

Without discussion, things will often end up being awkward as you realize you might not be looking for the same experience as the other players. This will make some people act irrationally, based on past poor experiences. They'll start targeting players because of their commander or their colours, a behaviour I personally highly despise.

I tend to love playing janky stuff or go all-in on deckbuilding restrictions. The stronger my commander is, the harder my deckbuilding restrictions will be. This makes for a fun puzzle and will rarely lead to "must-answer" situations. I played all-creatures Animar, and my Golos deck is full of cards with random effects. Those decks didn't make my meta crumble and I certainly didn't win just because my commander stayed on the battlefield for a turn or two. It is totally possible to build those commanders in fun and unique ways. It makes those builds viable because the commander is strong and can compensate for the weakness of those playing styles. I see those new commanders as opportunities and not bad news for the format. And I don't think I'm the only one that plays like that. Heck, in my meta, some people play block EDH or EDH with only commons in the 99 and they're having fun too!

Once again, if you don't discuss it with players in your meta, you will never reach a compromise. Now, if nobody is willing to listen and adapt, then don't play with them. It's sad but it is what it is, sometimes life sucks. I don't think it's Wizards' fault if players take things to the extreme in what is meant as a casual format. (Note: I'm not talking about cEDH as this is a completely different matter because there is no social contract involved.)

[Cyberium]

Things I want to see more:

1) Monocolor support. Not necessarily more powerful monocolor legends, but cards that'd make monocolor more viable, such as Endless Atlas and Nyx Lotus.

2) Punish ramping and mass draw/tutor. We have so many ways to punish graveyard archetype, yet so few against extreme mana/draw and tutoring in early game. More balance/punish cards (such as Alms Collector and Natural Balance) for W/R specifically would give the two weakest colors in this format an edge.

[CrazyPierre]

IDK.
My buddy showed up with his Chulane deck and he had Momir and Avenger and stuff in it but it wasn't super obnoxious, I just Vesiuvaned his Seedborn Muse and durdled a bit while the Mogis player ate our life away and the Sisay5C player did bomby stuff.
It was fun, because we agreed to do cool stuff. In the prev match the Sisay player got all the planeswalkers out and it was meh, but we moved on.

You can beat the brokenness of the new stuff by just using some silver bullets like Cursed Totem, Hushwing Gryiff, some odd tax effects or just Rule 0, cos yes that does work. And my friend is re-building Grand Arbiter b/c sloiwing the game to a crawl works too....

Yo, example of good table manners, my friend (Chulane guy) was on his Yawgmoth deck and we were getting kinda overwhelmed, so I Ghost Quartered his tapped swamp after he floated mana to get him an extra land, he cast Massacre Wurm, Rise of the Dark Realms and shenanigans. I didn't win but it was a fun way to go. :D

[plushpenguin]

I simply see these new commanders as decks that are easy to build.

As in, it takes no challenge in designing such a deck to at least function to a somewhat high degree. Golos, Tireless Pilgrim is the worst offender of this.

Let them build these decks. To me, it makes it that much easier to not be merciful with whatever deck I choose to run.

I have plenty of ways of testing my deckbuilding skills, the most simple way is limiting my colors. My signature deck is an old one from 2013 that won't struggle these days dealing with all but the actually competitive of combo builds. Well, if 3 people are on fast combo with zero interaction, then that might be lousy... But we're assuming a balanced pod here.

[NZB2323]

Things I want to see more:

1) Monocolor support. Not necessarily more powerful monocolor legends, but cards that'd make monocolor more viable, such as Endless Atlas and Nyx Lotus.

2) Punish ramping and mass draw/tutor. We have so many ways to punish graveyard archetype, yet so few against extreme mana/draw and tutoring in early game. More balance/punish cards (such as Alms Collector and Natural Balance) for W/R specifically would give the two weakest colors in this format an edge.

I agree Boros needs more support, but they already have a fair amount of hate when it comes to ramping and tutoring:

• Blood moon
• Magus of the moon
• Stranglehold
• Aven mindcensor
• Leonin arbiter

Sram and Smothering tithe I feel help out a lot, but it would be nice if Boros had a legend that helped with card draw. Maybe something like, "whenever you cast a spell that's red and white and no other color, draw a card."

White also has access to Armageddon, but people really don't like seeing that card.

[WolfWhoWanders]

I think a lot of these new legends being talked about take a lot of the fun and challenge out of deckbuilding while at the same time opening up some deckbuilding potential by needing less slots devoted to ramp or draw. It's generally the ramp/draw type cards I'd like to cut from lists but don't want to compromise deck quality and consistency. Turns out having lands and cards in hand let you play magic, if the commander can provide one (or both, in Chulane's case) of these then I don't need to commit so many slots in my deck to it. Does it feel broken sometimes? Yes. Is it broken? Maybe. I have a bigger problem with the on/off type commanders as @DirkGently describes it. These types of commanders create feelsbad situations. You either stop them from playing basically any magic at all or get steamrolled. I also think they can force some poor threat assessment situations. I actually run into Marchesa 1.0 (often may she die) in the wild frequently and I try to kill her every time...then some other player will focus on me because I won't let up on her. Then she wins/forces a severely uphill battle. And I lose still feeling like a douche for burning literally every single removal spell I had trying to keep her off. So all in all, I think a lot of these new commanders are magic on easy mode and hold little appeal to me. I don't really mind them existing, just ups the challenge for me and allows less experienced players a chance to compete. With a little effort most any commander can be good if not as consistently easy to make good. One day they'll break Grandmother Sengir and this discussion will have been for naught. Everyone will be playing her. It'll be like sushi hulk or whatever everyone is whining about but across the board in all levels of play. Might even spill over into legacy.

[Cyberium]

I agree Boros needs more support, but they already have a fair amount of hate when it comes to ramping and tutoring:

• Blood moon
• Magus of the moon
• Stranglehold
• Aven mindcensor
• Leonin arbiter

Sram and Smothering tithe I feel help out a lot, but it would be nice if Boros had a legend that helped with card draw. Maybe something like, "whenever you cast a spell that's red and white and no other color, draw a card."

I want to see more endurance. Most EDH games are long, and mono W/R and Boros are short-lived thx to their lack of recycle and card draws. I would ok with it... as long as WotC give W/R more ways to withstand repeat board wipe, that'd in a way reduce their need for card draw and retrieval. Think of it like in RTS game, where some units offers immediate benefit while some last indefinitely.

White also has access to Armageddon, but people really don't like seeing that card.

Red too has MLD, but damn you for destroying the seven mana I put out by turn 3. /s

EDH no longer favors high density of expensive cc cards, so it's awkward that one major aspect of two colors are disallowed while infinite mana/cards are ok.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I've been playing EDH for a long time and I too feel the innate urge to assume some sort of moral superiority in a haze of frontier nostalgia. But the fact is, I've enjoyed the evolution of the commander products and my time growing as a player with them. Mizzix was a fun deckbuilding puzzle. Prossh was my fist taste of real power. I just rebuilt Korvold two days ago.

Since 2011, they've printed many things that have made me happy and very few that haven't. A lot of those same things brought and continue to bring more players into our format. While it would be foolish not to acknowledge that those amorphous pioneering days were beautiful, but it would be hypocritical as an entrenched player not to appreciate how wonderfully far we've come since then. EDHrec is just the transcontinental railroad across the states, just wait until we can fly.

[toctheyounger]

Brago and animar are definitely among the worse offenders of this phenomenon, yes. Although some animar decks can at least play a bit without him.

A conversation I once overheard in an LGS: "Gitrog Monster is my favourite commander. If I ever untap with him, I win."

This, to me, is a perfect encapsulation of everything I despise about commander. Commanders who are so broken that the only way to fight against them is to never let them live for even a single turn cycle, and players who are too clueless to see how painfully unfun that is to play against.

What annoys me the most about that overheard conversation was the smugness. Yes, good job, you correctly identified that gitrog monster is a stupid broken card. A commander so busted he cannot even be suffered to live. And that's WHY he likes him. Not because he does something fun or because he creates interesting situations, but because he gives his opponents a binary choice between never letting him do anything, or letting him instantly win. And he was so proud of that, like he solved the %$#%$#% format.

And yet I've played against people like that, and if you keep removing their commander, they're going to whine about how you're picking on them, and look at how they can't do anything, and you're being such a bully. Well, dude, play something else then. Play something that doesn't make me be a bully. Play something because it's fun or interesting, instead of just because it's powerful.

This is kind of part of the problem - there's a lot of people out there that equate the power of a commander with how enjoyable they are to play, and that can get really, really tiresome. It's a no brainer that Narset, Enlightened Master + extra turns/attack phases = win, but that doesn't make it fun.

The sort of people that get salty about removing their commander in this situation are having their cake and trying to eat it too. Every build has a weak point, somewhere. If that weak point happens to be your commander that's your problem, and no one should feel bad for making what is obviously the correct play, and is also clearly not a 'frowned upon' play. I've come across several of these folk in my travels too and there's no arguing with them. You just have to keep your resolve, make the play and back yourself that you're doing it for the greater good, because the rest of the table will thank you and you will never convince the targeted player of their cognitive dissonance - that's a logical leap they have to make on their own.

A lot of folks are saying that Partner was a mistake. I'm not sure I agree, although I understand why the sentiment exists. I like the Partner mechanic, and I play Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder + Kraum, Ludevic's Opus and don't find it overpowered in the slightest. I think the mistake WotC made with Partner wasn't the mechanic itself, but rather putting that mechanic on hax mode legendaries like Thrasios, Triton Hero and Tymna the Weaver. Can anyone honestly say that Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa, Akiri, Line-Slinger, Tana, the Bloodsower, or Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker are problematic? I guess a close analogy would be that Soulbond wasn't a busted mechanic at all, but the ability that Soulbond gives to Deadeye Navigator and the other creature was pushed a bit much.

Couldn't agree more - I loved the mechanic itself, and thought MOST of the commanders were designed well enough to be able to chop and change without anything drastically busted. Thrasios, Triton Hero was obviously a bit much as a super cheap mana sink in the command zone, and Tymna was up there too. But otherwise I would love to see more. At any rate, Breya, Etherium Shaper is a combo beast and no one complains about her, so partner can't have been all that bad. I think it's just one or two pushed cards that ruin the vibe for the rest of the batch. That being said, they were all pretty low to the ground for CMC and splash colours as the brewer sees fit, so it seems like it's probably relatively easy to jam a ton of combo into one deck. And that's not the partner mechanic, that's WotC giving an inch and the sort of players that want to break the format taking a mile.

Ultimately the discussion really doesn't pertain to me overly in that I'm not the sort of person that sees disgusting power in a card and thinks 'I need a commander deck around it'. I own Jodah, Archmage Eternal and Golos, Tireless Pilgrim but haven't built around them. They're in the 99 of a vorthos build and will likely stay there. All that goes to show is that the commander of any deck will only do things as busted as the brewer allows it to. Maaaybe The Gitrog Monster is an exception, I'm sure there's similar, but if you really want to build those sort of things in a balanced way, you build with restrictions. The stronger the commander, the heavier the restrictions. Or you make it busted and only pull it out when you're playing the hardest of hardball games.

[Maluko]

Things I want to see more:
(…)
2) Punish ramping and mass draw/tutor. We have so many ways to punish graveyard archetype, yet so few against extreme mana/draw and tutoring in early game. More balance/punish cards (such as Alms Collector and Natural Balance) for W/R specifically would give the two weakest colors in this format an edge.

Totally agree. The format desperately needs more cards that punish mana ramp strategies and commanders that draw you tons of cards. The big challenge is how to print cards that can do this while being socially acceptable by the majority of groups. I think Fall of the Thran and Tectonic Hellion are two good recent examples of cards that can deal with mana ramp, and Thought Distortion deals beautifully with card draw greedy blue decks. But they are not enough.

[Cyberium]

Totally agree. The format desperately needs more cards that punish mana ramp strategies and commanders that draw you tons of cards. The big challenge is how to print cards that can do this while being socially acceptable by the majority of groups. I think Fall of the Thran and Tectonic Hellion are two good recent examples of cards that can deal with mana ramp, and Thought Distortion deals beautifully with card draw greedy blue decks. But they are not enough.

We can't simultaneously promote extreme ramping/drawing while forbidding cards that could punish the two, not to mention W/R are the weakest colors on ramp/draw yet greatest at punishing both.

[PrimevalCommander]

The problem really is with commanders, like marchesa, who are very on/off.

I agree with this point. Though I have become a little more cold to players who play "ON-OFF" commanders that complain when their commander gets hated off the table. I tend to play decks with more resiliency and less All-In nature because of the removal heavy meta I grew up in. If you play a narrow commander and lean too hard into having it on the battlefield, you take a risk of getting shut off by removal. While there may be some feel-bads there, its not my sole responsibility to get overwhelmed in the name of (his/her) fun.