Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[Serenade]

Nelly encourages combat in a different way.
Feather 2.0 is different.
It's not like we aren't getting new angles. It's just that they push out so many legends now that they have to use the default most of the time.

Plus you have to make things unique in your own way. Kellan 1.0 Curses is great fun.

[DirkGently]

I remember when we got 1 new boros legend per year, and it would invariably be a mediocre piece of crap, and then we'd all start hoping for next year.

My seething disappointment at Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas has made me the man I am today.

We've gotten 60 boros legends in the past 3 years. That's honestly insane. In the first 20 years of magic we got 10. That's a 40 fold increase

[5colorsrainbow]

It's not like we aren't getting new angles. It's just that they push out so many legends now that they have to use the default most of the time.

Maro talked on this somewhat, mostly about set/draft design but relates to legends as they often are made to reflect the set they are from.

1- They want to try to have new things each set, if they tried to make each set design different each time they would end up burning through new ideas more quickly. So often they try to balance out how much they push new space with color(s) (pairs) with going with the default designs not burn through space as fast.

2- An issue with new design space is they don't know how powerful it can be or what kind of games it can lead too without exploring that. With something like RW combat or RW auras/equipment they have a lot more years of knowing what is too powerful and how stuff will end up working out in the long run.

3- Related to 2, sometimes they will have something complex for a few colors/ pairs and then have the others default to older themes since it helps lower the complexity of the set over all.

4- As they want to avoid sets being too parasitic and want them to be able to work backwards with the older magic cards and sets there is more of a want to have design space recycle old themes in order to work with older cards.

5- Sometimes they want to work in different aspects of the default designs. As noted Kellan 1.0 is a aura/equipment but also supports a different play style then other similars commanders as Kellan wants you to also go wide while many other commanders want you to go tall.

So I think its less they are pushing so many legends but more that the default design for a lot of color pairs will just pop up more and its more noticeable since we are getting so many.

[Dunadain]

Pardon an ignorant blue mage, but if you don't like the fact that Boros legends do Boros things, why do you want to play Boros?

Boros used to have very weak commander options, so I understood wanting better versions of the same thing, but if you're issue is with the the actual themes in Boros, why are you playing Boros?

[Serenade]

(We actually want to play Lorehold. =P)

[Avacyn Believer]

Pardon an ignorant blue mage, but if you don't like the fact that Boros legends do Boros things, why do you want to play Boros?

I'd say it is more to do with wanting different options in those colours, rather than just getting the same theme in those colours. As someone who has many Boros and Boros-adjacent decks, I can relate. I like the effects the average cards in those colours have but also would like commanders that provide new ways to play them, kinda like Feather or the Lorehold elder dragon. I suppose same can be said for any colour combo though, especially the dual combinations.

[heridfel]

It's like someone who plays blue/green wanting something other than "when this creature attacks, I draw cards and play extra lands". Yes, there are plenty of twists on that idea and there are other themes ("leviathans" for all those merfolk and merfolk-adjacent creatures), but that is the go-to option for legends in that color combo.

[folding_music]

1- They want to try to have new things each set, if they tried to make each set design different each time they would end up burning through new ideas more quickly. So often they try to balance out how much they push new space with color(s) (pairs) with going with the default designs not burn through space as fast.

aaagh it just doesn't wash. they're never been more out of ideas, more repetitive

[Avacyn Believer]

aaagh it just doesn't wash. they're never been more out of ideas, more repetitive

considering how many sets they have to spew out each year I am not surprised. Before they had time to really focus on each set and spread out the releases and ideas, but now?

[CommanderMaster999]

World champion card shown. This years winner went to Nathan Steuer

A "only once each turn" trigger but whenever you commit a crime you draw a card and has P/T equal to amount of cards Drawn.

[materpillar]

I've never been so underwhelmed by spoilers before in my life. Not because the cards are bad, but like... three sets at once? I don't have emotional energy to get excited by these cards. Spoilers from Fallout literally just ended. I didn't even have a full 24 hours to try to digest those cards.

[Dragonlover]

I've never been so underwhelmed by spoilers before in my life. Not because the cards are bad, but like... three sets at once? I don't have emotional energy to get excited by these cards. Spoilers from Fallout literally just ended. I didn't even have a full 24 hours to try to digest those cards.

Can I make a suggestion? Don't think of them as spoilers, think of them as marketing. They're irrelevant for 3-6 months so there's no real point thinking about them from a gameplay perspective, so treat them as a press release that happens to be a pretty picture and move on.

I've personally found recontextualising anything that gets shown off outside of the official 1-2 week spoiler season as 'huh, now we know' and moving on has really helped it not feel like we're in eternal spoiler season.

Dragonlover

[Mookie]

I've never been so underwhelmed by spoilers before in my life. Not because the cards are bad, but like... three sets at once? I don't have emotional energy to get excited by these cards. Spoilers from Fallout literally just ended. I didn't even have a full 24 hours to try to digest those cards.

Looking at the release schedule, we're having new sets come out in five of the next sixth months, so get used to it. >_>

• March - Fallout
• April - Outlaws of Thunder Junction
• May - nothing
• June - MM3
• July - Assassin's Creed
• August - Bloomburrow

Ravnica Remastered was January, and MKM was February. There's also Duskmourn coming out sometime this year, which means a new set in at least 8/12 months of the year. Which is... definitely a significant increase from the old '3 sets + 1 core set + 1 bonus set', particularly given every set also comes with a correspondng Commander set.

[materpillar]

Can I make a suggestion? Don't think of them as spoilers, think of them as marketing. They're irrelevant for 3-6 months so there's no real point thinking about them from a gameplay perspective, so treat them as a press release that happens to be a pretty picture and move on.

I've personally found recontextualising anything that gets shown off outside of the official 1-2 week spoiler season as 'huh, now we know' and moving on has really helped it not feel like we're in eternal spoiler season.

Dragonlover

It's less the term "spoiler" and that I enjoy data and analyzing data and every new card is data to be analyzed, I analyze cards for potential things I might want in decks when they're spoiled and when they're fully released. It's just how I've engaged with magic for over a decade (and honestly most things in my life). Hyper critical data analysis is how I engage with most aspects of my life. For example, new Emrakul has been mentally slotted into my potential want list for my high CMC deck with a little mental flag of "check on this when it releases". I'll more in depth specifically review it against my decklist in whenever this year its released. Assassins Creed "wallrunning" has be slotted into my brain as "potential new keyword that might have a playable for Changelings". I haven't had time to clear sit down and properly chew through the Fallout cards yet. I thought I'd have at least 24 hours for my brain to switch out of data analyzing mode after looking through those cards. Nope! Here's content! Consume! It fried me a little.

Thus, I take another next step away from Magic the Gathering in my life.

[duducrash]

I've never been so underwhelmed by spoilers before in my life. Not because the cards are bad, but like... three sets at once? I don't have emotional energy to get excited by these cards. Spoilers from Fallout literally just ended. I didn't even have a full 24 hours to try to digest those cards.

Looking at the release schedule, we're having new sets come out in five of the next sixth months, so get used to it. >_>

• March - Fallout
• April - Outlaws of Thunder Junction
• May - nothing
• June - MM3
• July - Assassin's Creed
• August - Bloomburrow

Ravnica Remastered was January, and MKM was February. There's also Duskmourn coming out sometime this year, which means a new set in at least 8/12 months of the year. Which is... definitely a significant increase from the old '3 sets + 1 core set + 1 bonus set', particularly given every set also comes with a correspondng Commander set.

I have 0 Doctor Who and or W40k cards memorized, I recently traded for some lands that I learned were reprinted in the doctor who set. I know they are probably great designs and would greatly improve some of my decks but I chose not to care and I think it has greatly helped me enjoy mtg

[RxPhantom]

I have 0 Doctor Who and or W40k cards memorized, I recently traded for some lands that I learned were reprinted in the doctor who set. I know they are probably great designs and would greatly improve some of my decks but I chose not to care and I think it has greatly helped me enjoy mtg

I have almost no UB cards memorized except Chief Jim Hopper and a few others. I look at UB as stuff I can pretty much ignore until I have to play against it. Even if I wanted to, something had to give in the face of this crushing release schedule.

Side note, despite my dislike of UB I have to give it up to Haystack. Freakin' brilliant.

[Avacyn Believer]

The days of being able to fully digest a set and memorize cards is long gone for me, I would like it to be like it was before, it gave me time to appreciate each set and look forward to see ones more. But I think we just have to adapt to the new reality and hope it gets better, somehow. It's probably why I carry on playing old staples, I know those cards

[Dragonlover]

It is fundamentally impossible to memorise every card, there's just too many of the damn things even ignoring anything printed outside of a standard set. It's not like when I started in 2000 and there were 20 sets, several of which were just reprints. I could tell you every single card when i was a jobless teen with a new hyper fixation, but today? No hope.

Once I've got all the cards from a set that I need, I forget it exists and treat it like Lorwyn, which came out while I was on a break, or Strixhaven, which as a covid set I basically didn't interact with. I don't need to know what's in them, I only need to know what's likely to be played by my opponents. I also don't care if a lack of knowledge about a cards existence loses me the game, just means I know for next time.

@materpillar all I can think is that sounds exhausting if that's how you approach your entire life. Like, I looked at all the Magic Con stuff, went "need that ramp spell, hate the Thunder Junction showcase frame, basics look sweet" and other than the fact all my friends are MTG players so they've come up in conversation haven't thought about them since. By the time MH3 rolls around properly there's a real chance I'll have forgotten about the ramp spell entirely, and at this precise second I'm not 100% convinced I know what it's called.

We all choose how we interact with knowledge of upcoming sets, and I hope both for the sake of the people and the game everyone can find a healthy balance that works for them.

Dragonlover

[DirkGently]

I have 0 Doctor Who and or W40k cards memorized

This honestly baffles me. I look at a card for 3 seconds and most of the time it's locked into my brain until the day I die. People haven't even played those cards against you?

[Serenade]

That's a good point: There are so many new cards that I'm not going to see them all (either in my decks or in opponents'). And I'm definitely not gonna remember what my opponents are playing. My friend played one of The Masters and a Cyberman guy. I think they had myriad. I got nothing else about those cards, and I might not be able to ID the artwork because there are so many.

Yeah, I'm just not committing the mental space to new stuff anymore. I'm actually buying more variants that have the reminder text because I'm not memorizing how every new ability works.

[duducrash]

I have 0 Doctor Who and or W40k cards memorized

This honestly baffles me. I look at a card for 3 seconds and most of the time it's locked into my brain until the day I die. People haven't even played those cards against you?

It is an exaggeration not meant to be taken literally but to gather more attention to the point being made

[Dunadain]

Damn, transforming Ajani is Wild

0 that creates a token AND deals damage, on a 2mv Walker?

I realize there are a lot of asterisks in that phrase, but this might actually get me to play Boros XD.

[Cyberium]

Pardon an ignorant blue mage, but if you don't like the fact that Boros legends do Boros things, why do you want to play Boros?

What is Boros, though? Or to be exact, what is W/R?

The fact that we keep calling the W/R combination "Boros" already molded us into seeing the color pair as nothing more than Ravnica's limited interpretation, and WotC in the past gave us W/R legends inclined for battle over and over again because they're selling that familiarity. (Same with this Ravnica being the new capital of multi-verse, Omenpath reusing characters, etc)

If we look at the W/R from color pie perspective, it's so much wider and varied than Ravnican Boros. Lorehold was a fine example on how W/R can also take a scholastic approach, and I'm sure creativity doesn't end there.

[5colorsrainbow]

For me personally what also helps is I know the early spoilers shown aren't for me per say but for to help stores plan events and gauge how much interest a set will be for their customers. For me (outside of vorthos guessing) I really can just ignore stuff until we are in the proper spoiler season.

[DirkGently]

Okay time to solve this discourse.

Boros commanders that are focused around equipment: 13
Akiri, Fearless Voyager
Akiri, Line-Slinger (debatable)
Astor, Bearer of Blades (also vehicles)
Bruenor Battlehammer
Eivor, Battle-Ready
Jor Kadeen, First Goldwarden
Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (also auras)
Koll, the Forgemaster (also auras) (debatable - really more of a combo build that happens to involve equipment)
Mabel, Heir to Cragflame (debatable - more of a tribal commander that happens to make an equipment)
Moira Brown, Guide Author
Nahiri, Forged in Fury
Reyav, Master Smith (also auras)
Wyleth, Soul of Steel (also auras)

Boros commanders that are focused around going wide/attacking: 35
Adriana, Captain of the Guard
Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
Anax and Cymede
Anim Pakal, Thousandth Moon
Anya, Merciless Angel
Ash, Party Crasher
Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
Aurelia, the Warleader
Aurelia, the Law Above
Baird, Argivian Recruiter
Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder
Captain Rex Nebula
Commander Liara Portyr (arguable)
Commander Mustard
Craig Boone, Novac Guard (arguable)
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (arguable)
Haktos the Unscarred
Iroas, God of Victory
Jenny, Generated Anomaly
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
Merry, Esquire of Rohan
Neyali, Suns' Vanguard
Otharri, Suns' Glory
Paladin Elizabeth Taggerdy
Raiyuu, Storm's Edge
Risona, Asari Commander
Sentinel Sarah Lyons
Shadowfax, Lord of Horses
Sophina, Spearsage Deserter
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Tajic, Legion's Edge
Théoden, King of Rohan
Tori D'Avenant, Fury Rider
Winota, Joiner of Forces

Boros commanders that are focused around something else: 44
Agrus Kos, Eternal Soldier
Agrus Kos, Spirit of Justice
Aisha of Sparks and Smoke
Ajani, Nacatl Pariah // Ajani, Nacatl Avenger
Alibou, Ancient Witness
Arcee, Sharpshooter // Arcee, Acrobatic Coupe
Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier
Basandra, Battle Seraph
Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant
Brion Stoutarm
Cadric, Soul Kindler
Caparocti Sunborn
Cass, Hand of Vengeance (she is way stronger with ETB auras than equipment)
Depala, Pilot Exemplar
Desdemona, Freedom's Edge
Djeru and Hazoret
Duke Ulder Ravengard
Éomer, King of Rohan
Éowyn, Fearless Knight
Feather, Radiant Arbiter
Feather, the Redeemed
Firesong and Sunspeaker
General Ferrous Rokiric
Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero
Hofri Ghostforge
Mila, Crafty Companion // Lukka, Wayward Bonder
Munda, Ambush Leader
Nelly Borca, Impulsive Accuser
Odric, Blood-Cursed
Osgir, the Reconstructor
Pia Nalaar, Consul of Revival
Plargg, Dean of Chaos // Augusta, Dean of Order
Queen Kayla bin-Kroog
Quintorius, Field Historian
Quintorius, Loremaster
Razia, Boros Archangel
Rem Karolus, Stalwart Slayer
The War Doctor
Three Dog, Galaxy News DJ
Tiana, Ship's Caretaker (stronger with auras...still crap though)
Velomachus Lorehold
Vikya, Scorching Stalwart
Zabaz, the Glimmerwasp
Zirda, the Dawnwaker

From this we learn 2 things:
1) There aren't that many equipment-focused commanders (especially considering its a synergy they both share strongly and other colors don't - plus a fair chunk of those also count auras). It's like 15%. It is not an "endless parade".
2) If you want to do something in Boros that isn't combat or using equipment, you've got plenty of options. The number of non-equipment, non-combat boros commanders is equivalent to the total number of all boros commanders that were available in 2021 (after Innistrad: midnight hunt and before the stranger things SL).