What's the best thing to cheat into play?

[Dunadain]

Is it just me, or has reanimator kind of died out in EDH? It seems to me that most people have realized that in a format where it's actually perfectly reasonable to ramp to 10+ mana before the game ends, going through hoops to get a creature that most likely won't end the game all on it's own is not worth the trouble. The reanimation decks that I DO see either are looking to mass reanimate multiple fatties at once (Living Death/Patriarch's Bidding) or are setting up reanimation engines (Sheoldred, Whispering One/Sefris of the Hidden Ways) so you're actually cheating on enough mana for it to be worth your time.

But I was trying to rework my Safana, Calimport Cutthroat + Dungeon Delver deck today, and I've been toying around with making it into a top of library manipulation deck, using cards like Oracle's Vault, Aetherworks Marvel, Sarevok's Tome, and, of course, the Throne of the Dead Three, the final room in the underdark dungeon, to pay out that manipulation.

So I've been thinking about what the best things to cheat out are.

Obviously, the answer is "it depends" first of all, what color is your deck? Additionally, some cards are more attractive to cheat into play depending on your decklist. I know the Sefris of the Hidden Ways deck that's on this site considers Radiant Solar to be the #1 reanimation target, but, obviously, that's because it has strong synergies with the commander. I'm trying to think of this in more generic terms.

I think that Omniscience is still probably the best thing to cheat into play, but enchantments are a lot harder to cheat into play than creatures.

Likewise, Expropriate or Time Stretch are probably the best instant/sorcery to cheat out.

Creatures are a lot harder however.

I remember that, back in the day, most reanimator decks were looking to cheat in Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, it was card advantage and disruption, but I don't think Jin holds up anymore, people have finally started playing removal and Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is wide open to removal, indeed if your opponents have removal up the turn you play him, then you get 0 value from him. Sire of Insanity falls into a very similar camp. Mindslicer was also big back in the day, and while I think he's held up a lot better than Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, that's only if you have a reanimation engine set up where you can continually loop him.

R.I.P. Griselbrand, you never even got a chance.

Ultimately, after looking around a bit, I decided that the new Atraxa, Grand Unifier is probably the best thing to cheat into play, even if your deck isn't optimized to spread out the card types, it's going to immediately draw cards, and then it's a 7/7 flying, vigilance, lifelink, deathtouch creature to pressure your opponents. If you're opponents manage to kill it, but not exile it, then that's almost a good thing, as you can reanimate it again and get more value (and, of course, you can just run some sacrifice outlets yourself).
However, very few decks can actually play Atraxa, Grand Unifier because she's a four-color card, for many decks, Nezahal, Primal Tide is probably the best stand-alone creature to cheat out, it's potent card advantage, and while it's a hefty cost, you can keep it protected even if you're tapped out. Hullbreaker Horror is also in the running, assuming you have enough cheap spells, preferably instants, to make use of it. Additionally, Hullbreaker Horror is pretty easy to make an infinite combo with, so unlike most reanimation targets, Hullbreaker Horror CAN actually win the game.

I decided to look at Sefris of the Kind of Obvious Ways Decklist as that seems to be the most polished reanimation list floating around. Sure enough, the list is running Nezahal, Primal Tide. Surprisingly, they are not running Hullbreaker Horror though, so maybe I'm overestimating that card. They are running Sheoldred, Whispering One which strikes me as really fragile, but I suppose when you have repeatable recursion in the command zone you can just keep reanimating it until it sticks.

They are also running Serra's Emissary which seems a bit hopeful to me. most decks run at least two different card types that can cause you problems, multiply that out to 3 opponents and there is no way this sticks, when it is removed, it really hasn't provided any value, and while it might have bricked some of your opponents cards while it was out, it didn't actually get rid of them. It's like when your opponent finally manages to remove your Chalice of the Void, it releases all the 1 drops in your their hand and things quickly start to go downhill. Obviously the Sefris deck is a polished list with several irl testers, so I will differ to their experience, but from the outside looking in, it doesn't seem that good.

Archon of Cruelty is a card I jus flat out forgot about, which is kind of funny when it's the go-to creature to cheat into play in modern, and reanimation target #2 in legacy reanimator, but it seems solid, is an immediate edict effect and draws a card on etb, then you get to do it again very turn. A bit lower impact, but it provide immediate value and functions as both card draw and removal.

Finally, the list is running Noxious Gearhulk and Sun Titan which both seem decent, nothing too exciting, but decent.


Those are all just my thoughts though, what do you think is worth cheating into play? are there any cards that might not be great in a vacuum but are really strong in a particular deck, like Radiant Solar?

[Chromaticus]

As someone who plays the Sefris of the Hidden Ways deck, Radiant Solar is a great one when your graveyard is stocked because it means she's bringing friends.

In those colors, I have to shout out my newest pal Tivit, Seller of Secrets - resilient, huge value on etb and when it sticks around. It's arguably stronger than Archon of Cruelty for less mana and ward 3. I argued for it being the single best permanent to have remaining on an empty board in a recent thread.

Razaketh, the Foulblooded is fantastic, but does require a tiny bit of help.

[PrimevalCommander]

I like Ashen Rider in control shells and Zetalpa, Primal Dawn in stompy or casual shells.
Kokusho, the Evening Star / Gray Merchant of Asphodel still regularly end games for me.
Yosei, the Morning Star is there for when I'm down to 1v1 and want to close out the game.
Agent of Treachery if you can get repeated triggers, though blinking is easier.
Serra's Emissary and Avacyn, Angel of Hope are good in white of course. Emissary is good more for evasion than for protection. It never lasts long in play when I cast it.
Archon of Cruelty I don't have experience with because it is a little less impactful in commander than in other formats, so I haven't shelled out the $$ for one yet.
Archfiend of Despair is really popular right now.

There's also several green fatties that I like, but non that are "Best thing to Cheat", just general goodstuff beef like Terastodon and Woodfall Primus. I'm sure Craterhoof Behemoth is too telegraphed if you are trying to get it in the GY. Better to tutor to play.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I think the best target in a vacuum is usually going to be Tidespout Tyrant. That card becomes unbeatable with frightening alacrity if it sticks.

[Dunadain]

I think the best target in a vacuum is usually going to be Tidespout Tyrant. That card becomes unbeatable with frightening alacrity if it sticks.

The future is now old man!

Unless you think the ability to hit lands is worth it, which is a fair consideration, it's honestly close imo, but i'd give it to Hullbreaker Horror.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I think the best target in a vacuum is usually going to be Tidespout Tyrant. That card becomes unbeatable with frightening alacrity if it sticks.

The future is now old man!

Unless you think the ability to hit lands is worth it, which is a fair consideration, it's honestly close imo, but i'd give it to Hullbreaker Horror.

I wouldn't. +2/+3, can't be countered, and remand abilities are nice, but Tidespout is plain unfair. Not only can you bury your opponents with bouncing lands, you can wombo combo with mana rocks. Plus, it flies. Horror cannot fly, that you can't deny.

[DirkGently]

you can wombo combo with mana rocks.

Wait, why does tidespout combo better with mana rocks? Don't they do the same thing in that arena?

[TheAmericanSpirit]

you can wombo combo with mana rocks.

Wait, why does tidespout combo better with mana rocks? Don't they do the same thing in that arena?

Well I'll be damned, I could have sworn it could only bounce your opponents' things. Well, it still doesn't fly. I rest my case.

[Venedrex]

you can wombo combo with mana rocks.

Wait, why does tidespout combo better with mana rocks? Don't they do the same thing in that arena?

Well I'll be damned, I could have sworn it could only bounce your opponents' things. Well, it still doesn't fly. I rest my case.

[toctheyounger]

In my opinion reanimator really just needs specific options. It's not enough to get a Sheoldred, Whispering One into play; you become an immediate target and there's no way it makes it to your turn. These days you really need something that gets you value right this second.

Toxrill, the Corrosive is a nice option. For you, I mean. For your opponents it seems miserable. The fact that it doesn't need to make it through to your next turn for you to benefit is great and makes it probably the best choice to me.

Vilis, Broker of Blood is a good choice too. Reanimate gets you an 8/8 flier and +8 cards in hand with a great way to fill your grip even further.

Razaketh, the Foulblooded is good but it probably does need specific lines planned around it.

Having run Nezahal, Primal Tide in a reanimator decklist before I can say it kinda slaps. It's not a finisher per se, but as an early to mid game value engine you're gonna struggle to get anything better. A non-optional Mystic Remora trigger that's easy to protect and has chonk to it is pretty great.

As far as Hullbreaker Horror goes, I think it really needs the right deck to achieve what you need it to. If you're running enough cheerios, free or close to spells and cheap stuff you can pretty much control the board. If you're not really going all in on that I don't think it's in the right place.

[DirkGently]

@Venedrex you do realize tidespout came out way before galecaster right?

[Venedrex]

@Venedrex you do realize tidespout came out way before galecaster right?

[TheAmericanSpirit]

@Venedrex you do realize tidespout came out way before galecaster right?

still laughed

[darrenhabib]

Toxrill, the Corrosive GG

[Mookie]

The best thing to cheat out is going to depend somewhat on how you're cheating it out and what disruption you anticipate your opponents will have. If it's with Sneak Attack, then Blightsteel Colossus or It That Betrays is arguably the best. If you're casting it, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre are tempting. Those don't work well with reanimation though.

If you can put two creatures into play, combo is an option - Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Zealous Conscripts is a classic, as is Deadeye Navigator + Peregrine Drake.

If you're specifically looking to reanimate a single creature as quickly as possible (i.e. turn 4 or sooner)... I would either look for something that is hard to interact with and can snowball to a victory by itself, or something that locks out opponents. For the former category, Tivit, Seller of Secrets and Nezahal, Primal Tide look to be two of the best options, while Void Winnower and Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant are reasonable for the latter. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Sire of Insanity are also very strong if you can cheat them out quickly enough.

I'm a little low on Toxrill, the Corrosive and Hullbreaker Horror here - they're fantastic to reanimate in the midgame and lategame, but in the very early game, they may just die to removal before generating any value.

Ethereal Valkyrie, Shard of the Void Dragon, Consecrated Sphinx, Sire of Stagnation, Ancient Silver Dragon, and Ancient Gold Dragon are some more fantastic options. If you're in red or green, Ancient Copper Dragon and Old Gnawbone are more strong options, as is Nyxbloom Ancient.

...and of course, there's always the Academy Rector → Omniscience option if you can find a sac outlet.

[pokken]

Fundamentally it is just more consistent to ramp into big spells than cheat them into play. Cheating into play is a 3 piece combo requiring discard/mill + cheat spell + fatty. Ramping into fatty is a 2 piece combo requiring ramp + tutor/draw/fatty. It's just a lot easier to build a deck that way. And ramping+draw is kind of self-reinforcing (the more your draw the more you ramp and vice versa, to an extent).

Cheat spells can be thought of as highly specific form of ramp (essentially a ritual), but unfortunately they don't help you cast the rest of your deck the way ramping does.

I'd suggest that if your commander brings one of the three pieces of the "combo" of yard+cheat+fatty, somehow, then you're using your commander just to be as consistent as a ramp/bomb deck Except they can play their commander as ramp/ca/both and be even more consistent.

[aliciaofthevast]

@3drinks taught me a long time ago and I still believe it, that Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger is the best to cheat out because not removing it means you win and removing it is still painful to do. Oh, and you can still utilize it the turn you cheat it out if you have other spells! And when so many people don't play enough removal, this thing sticks much more often than it has any right to.

So, I'm gonna say Vorinclex, final answer. 😎

[Sinis]

I also have a Safana/Dungeon Delver deck: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/dC7k3icFlEmrX9oCxOYiVA

I think the best 'hits' I've gotten out of Throne of the Dead Three are Sphinx of the Second Sun (because additional upkeeps with the Initiative are hype), Sheoldred, Whispering One, Diluvian/Sepulchral Primordial, and Tomb of Horrors Adventurer (who, by the way, is unbelievably good). Sometimes cards like Sheoldred don't stick, but, that's okay. The deck has a lot of threats, and one of them will, or I find my Living Death and everyone is sorry for spending removal.

[Dunadain]

Fundamentally it is just more consistent to ramp into big spells than cheat them into play. Cheating into play is a 3 piece combo requiring discard/mill + cheat spell + fatty. Ramping into fatty is a 2 piece combo requiring ramp + tutor/draw/fatty. It's just a lot easier to build a deck that way. And ramping+draw is kind of self-reinforcing (the more your draw the more you ramp and vice versa, to an extent).

Cheat spells can be thought of as highly specific form of ramp (essentially a ritual), but unfortunately they don't help you cast the rest of your deck the way ramping does.

I'd suggest that if your commander brings one of the three pieces of the "combo" of yard+cheat+fatty, somehow, then you're using your commander just to be as consistent as a ramp/bomb deck Except they can play their commander as ramp/ca/both and be even more consistent.

I mean that's true of Reanimate but there are other ways to cheat things into play.

Tooth and Nail is iconic, and the initiative is also (arguably) a one-card combo to cheat a creature into play.

Ramp is better overall, and reanimation specifically is pretty bad in EDH, but there are some decks where it makes more sense to go the cheat into play route than the ramp route.

[pokken]

Tooth and Nail is iconic, and the initiative is also (arguably) a one-card combo to cheat a creature into play.

T&N would never see any play without the tutor aspect.

most of the places where cheat effects are good are combined with tutors, so they do exactly what I said, which is cut out the synergy requirements. Show and Tell sees a LOT less play than Green Sun's Zenith for a reason.

You can really think of most cheat effects as ramp payoffs. There are exceptions...Sneak Attack is pretty gross in Commander, but primarily because it also enables instant speed and haste shenanigans.

Birthing Pod is probably one of the most iconic, but it again doesn't really see that much play and is stapled to a tutor effect.

There are exceptions, but they're mostly exceptions that prove the rule imho

[Dunharrow]

you can wombo combo with mana rocks.

Wait, why does tidespout combo better with mana rocks? Don't they do the same thing in that arena?

Well I'll be damned, I could have sworn it could only bounce your opponents' things. Well, it still doesn't fly. I rest my case.

That might be the case on Arena. I think they weakened it there.

[Treamayne]

Oh, it's obvious that the best thing to "cheat" into play from the graveyard is Haakon, Stromgald Scourge (and it's the only way) since he'll let you continue to cast from the yard (in the right deck).

Seriously though, the "best" thing is the thing you find fun and that makes an enjoyable game for the table. For example, my Halfdane deck likes giving CPR to Clone Shell, Cairn Wanderer and Quicksilver Gargantuan.

I think the best target in a vacuum is usually going to be Tidespout Tyrant. That card becomes unbeatable with frightening alacrity if it sticks.

Oh, for the days of Tidespout Tyrant + Shrieking Drake (oh, and a High Tide if necessary). . .