Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[Mookie]

Yet another version of Reassembling Skeleton but no zombie that does the same is really frustrating (Persistent Specimen)

....Gravecrawler? Boneyard Scourge? Dread Wanderer? Prized Amalgam? There are definitely self-recursive zombies available.

[pokken]

Yet another version of Reassembling Skeleton but no zombie that does the same is really frustrating (Persistent Specimen)

....Gravecrawler? Boneyard Scourge? Dread Wanderer? Prized Amalgam? There are definitely self-recursive zombies available.

Only gravecrawler is any good of those . Amalgam isn't self recurring it recurs when other stuff leaves your yard. Dread wanderer has a major limitation but I do play it.

I must have efficiency in my skullclamp dudes. Give me reassembling skeleton or bloodghast zombie
Or blood soaked champion that guy is dope

[duducrash]

Not only Odric, Blood-Cursed isnt good. It has to be worse than this, he is boring. With little to no boros payoffs, his blood tokens are good as artifacts first and mostly.

Odric + 3 keywords + Eldrazi Displacer +Krark-Clan Ironworks nets you infinite mana with no payoff, infinite ETB too.

4 Keywords lets you rummage your entire deck.

thats at least 4 cards and a ton of mana to do that, stuff you can already do better and cheaper. If you were to do something. Wish the ability also triggered on attack and blood tokens had more synergy in boros

[BeneTleilax]

Yet another version of Reassembling Skeleton but no zombie that does the same is really frustrating (Persistent Specimen)

I mean, Gravecrawler

[toctheyounger]

Yet another version of Reassembling Skeleton but no zombie that does the same is really frustrating (Persistent Specimen)

I mean, Gravecrawler

We need more though.

Tbh I think WotC mightve scaled back a bit after crawler. Hes a bit nuts.

[pokken]

I mean, Gravecrawler

Gravecrawler is really too good tbh. I'd love to see some nice fair Bloodsoaked Championesque Zombies, so I can properly aggro people out.

I can't whine too much since we did get Champion of the Perished recently who is super dope, but...moooohr

[RedCheese]

We zombie deck players are relentless. We just want more zoooombies like gravecrawler(of course not powerful as him)

[Wallycaine]

Thinking on it, it's plausible that Gravecrawler, and specifically Gravecrawler in modern, may be part of the reason that they *haven't* printed (many) other recursive Zombies? Because Gravecrawler's one drawback is that it relies on you committing and having another zombie to stick to the board. Add a Reassembling Skeleton style Zombie, and suddenly the "have a zombie in play" requirement becomes pretty trivial.

[RedCheese]

Cards i want from this set:

Necroduality : Easilly card i most hyped for. My Varinna deck is pleased.
Hallowed Haunting : Such a perfect card for my Zombie Daxos.
Manaform Hellkite : Could be solid for my Feather deck. Not one of the first picks tough, but something to consider if cheap.
Hullbreaker Horror : Nasty kraken. Can't think of a deck currently tough. But still want it.
Headless Rider : Zombie deck lets go
Mirrorhall Mimic : Another adition to my Gyruda deck.
Curse of Hospitality : Nasty curse. Might be a troll card for my Pramikron deck
Geralf, Visionary Stitcher : Need to test him out more in my zombie decks.
By Invitation Only : Very interesting wrath in white.
Overcharged Amalgam : Another zombie to test it out.
Sigarda's Summons : Ghave deck perhaps?
Wash Away : Very interesting counter spell. At worst is a cancell which isn't horrible, but countering commander cards with one mana is very good.
Repository Skaab : Easiest include in my Varinna deck. The deck was in desperate need of this effect stapled in a zombie(that didn't suck)

[pokken]

Stuff I preordered:
foils

• cemetery illuminator
• fleeting spirit
• overcharged amalgam
• hullbreaker horror

nonfoils

• archghoul of thraben
• headless rider
• reckless impulse
• overcharged amalgam

(I got 4 reckless impulses, that card's real good, but they were 0.13 each )

Other things on my list are Toxrill, the Corrosive (foil - waiting for the prices to come down), and Savior of Ollenbock and Repository Skaab

(Saw Saviors went down a bit on CSI so I got those too - and a set of Repository Skaab for 0.49! Woot).

Necroduality is just too darn pricy atm.

--

A side note by the way, I kinda don't want to spoil this but, CSI almost always has the best foil preorder prices and they go up way early. I usually spend 30-40/set on stuff, and wind up with things like a Skyclave Apparition foil preorder for $3.99, foil preorder Drannith Magistrate for $3.99, and similar. Now, magistrate had a period of time where the foils were quite cheap, but the preorder prices were insane. So you can split the difference a little there. Everywhere was preordering them for $10+.

No vested interest there, I don't really order from CSI as their normal prices are iffy, but they really hit the sweet spot for foil preorders on a range of cards I often get (niche things that often spike before preorders are done).

[DirkGently]

I wondered why I was feeling so apathetic to this set for commander. Then I noticed half the commander options are tribal. That's probably not a coincidence.

[DirkGently]

I'm bored. Time to do a commander review.

Katilda, Dawnhart Martyr // Katilda's Rising Dawn - Unlike most, I'm very open to playing mono-white. This is real boring, though. Tribal is boring (spirit tribal more than most), and enchantment "tribal" isn't much better, and even that aside the only payoff here is a large beeferino. 1/5.

Geralf, Visionary Stitcher - oh joy another tribal commander. At least he's a bit more interesting, and doesn't necessarily force you into tribal since he makes his own. Not a lot of self-recurring creatures in blue, though, so it's a bit difficult to imagine this being very good. I guess you can sac your Wall of Ice to it and make some large flyers but that seems pretty underwhelming. 2/5.

Jacob Hauken, Inspector // Hauken's Insight - At first I missed the "without paying its mana cost" and was merely disappointed that it couldn't cast spells on enemy turns. Now I'm disappointed that it's yet another mana cheat commander that incentivizes playing the same tired crap like exprop and time stretch. 0/5.

Henrika Domnathi // Henrika, Infernal Seer - I want to like Henrika, the design is neat and all, but it's just so limited. Ok, it cantrips the turn it comes down, cool. Black is good at exploiting symmetrical sac, but you can only do it once, so there's not much incentive to focus on it. And then on the flip side, she's...fine? A weaker Atraxa with a really overcosted ability. Buffing DT is pretty crap, so I guess she's probably a flying tribal kinda thing, but even then, 3 mana to pump 1 power isn't really getting anywhere for me. 2/5.

Toxrill, the Corrosive - I don't hate him, but he's definitely a removal magnet and I don't see him generating particularly fun or interesting games. 1/5.

Anje, Maid of Dishonor - There's a couple ways to build her, though the most obvious is tribal. Could also just sac recurrables and whatnot, but at the end of the day the sac ability isn't that exciting - Reassembling Skeleton is horribly inefficient so it's kinda Bloodghast or nothing. And that's very predictable and still real bad. 1/5.

Dorothea, Vengeful Victim // Dorothea's Retribution - cute nod to traft, but there's no way I'm playing this as my commander ever, right? 1/5.

Edgar, Charmed Groom // Edgar Markov's Coffin - I dig the recurring thing, and at least you CAN play him without other vampires, but he's clearly strongest in a tribal deck. And even then, he's not overwhelming or anything. Maybe there's a bad control deck in there somewhere. Nightmare in limited, though. 3/5.

Eruth, Tormented Prophet - I suspect this is mostly a storm commander, but even that aside, I really like having cards in my hand. It's not a definite no, but I really doubt it. 2/5.

Grolnok, the Omnivore - Frog tribal. God I hate this game sometimes. 0/5.

Halana and Alena, Partners - I mean, they're gruul, so it's hard to expect anything terribly interesting. Kinda awkward to want to buff their power yet rely on other creatures for the beatdown. Triggering immediately is pretty good I guess. 2/5.

Odric, Blood-Cursed - talked about him already. He's...trash. 1/5.

Old Rutstein - he's not a terrible value engine, but he's not great either. It'd be hard to get good value from any possible flip, and even if you can it's still not amazing. I don't hate him but I doubt he really gets there. 2/5.

Olivia, Crimson Bride - Kinda silly that this can reanimate other legendary vampires with (almost) no downside, but I wouldn't really call this tribal. Probably the most interesting commander from the set, though I can't say she's totally getting me going yet. I'm open to it in the future, though, if it clicks into place for me. Presumably you'd want some strong saboteur triggers, or maybe good sac effects. Dauthi Mindripper? lol. 3/5.

Runo Stromkirk // Krothuss, Lord of the Deep - seamonster tribal only continues to get stupider. At least when it was only a few cards it was funny, now it's like a joke that won't go away. That aside, at least he's still decent ignoring the tribal aspect. Definitely some shenanigans with copying etb triggers, and he's got built-in evasion. Unfortunately you've gotta figure out how to flip him, though at least he can sometimes help on that front. Though his flip side doesn't really incentivize the self-mill that can assist his flipping. At least it makes it fairly easy to flip him on subsequent trips to the battlefield if he gets wiped or whatever. I guess I could see building him. 3/5.

Torens, Fist of the Angels - Another card that looks insane in limited, it's like reverse Monastery Mentor in the CZ. I guess he's good with stuff like Whitemane Lion and co...kinda hard to wanna run over God-Eternal Oketra unless you've got some serious benefits from green though. Idk, I can see the deck being pretty good but I doubt I'd actually build something. Green white is probably among my rarest color combinations. 2/5.


And as far as the commander ones:

Millicent, Restless Revenant - spirit tribal. 1/5.

Strefan, Maurer Progenitor - vampire tribal. 1/5.

Umbris, Fear Manifest - nightmare/horror tribal? omfg STOP WHY DO WE NEED TRIBALS FOR EVERY STUPID TYPE. And don't tell me he's ok as nontribal, he costs 5 and has no abilities besides p/t. 0/5.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

@DirkGently I'm glad someone else resents the tribal everything we've been getting lately. Last tribal set I enjoyed was shadowmoor, and everything since has felt like blatant fan-service.

[Hermes_]

Tell me you hate an archetype without telling me you hate an archetype

[Wallycaine]

Tell me you hate an archetype without telling me you hate an archetype

That was *without* telling us he hates an archetype?

[pokken]

I'm kinda bored with level 0 tribal stuff (e.g. "play vampires this good with vampires").

I really, really enjoy "lots of the <tribe> kinda do this vague thing, here's a cookie for doing that thing." So like stuff that rewards flying or flash creatures or bouncing for spirits, or recurring/draining for zombies, etc.

Stuff that has other applications.

A quick for instance:

Why in the hell have we not gotten a "search your library for a creature with flying" effect yet? How hard would it be? How generically fun would that be? People would love the hell out of playing goofy flying toolbox creatures. But instead we get....

We get "whatever power/toughness for enchantments/spirits" as an attempt at moving beyond level 0 synergy, but we can't even get stuff like the Eldritch moon spirits which were at least interesting.

Look at how super interesting the cards in Eldritch Moon tried to be. Stuff like Spectral Shepherd and Spell Queller and Rattlechains. Those were at least like...interesting level 0 synergies. Cards like Katilda, Dawnhart Martyr // Katilda's Rising Dawn and Millicent, Restless Revenant are just so very low effort for mythics and rares.

herp derp cheaper for spirit make spirit on combat damage spirit!! count spirits!

[Serenade]

Why in the hell have we not gotten a "search your library for a creature with flying" effect yet? How hard would it be? How generically fun would that be? People would love the hell out of playing goofy flying toolbox creatures.

OG Isperia is kinda boring. I do like this effect, though, but I do not know how many other people use Mwonvuli Beast Tracker.

[Dunadain]

Grolnok, the Omnivore - Frog tribal. God I hate this game sometimes. 0/5.

The rest of these I agree with, but who is in their right mind looks at this and says "frog tribal"

I mean, I'm sure someone is going to do that, but this card is a monster in a self mill deck.

Heck, you could entirely cut out the on attack ability and it would still be decent.

[Ulka]

Man cemetery illuminator seems likely to be the $40 mythic of this set and that's a bummer :p

Damn I need one for my jank The Unspeakable deck... Mono Blue spirits and Arcane deck needs all the help it can get

[5colorsrainbow]

I honesty feel like a lot of these legends fit better in the 99 of other decks than really being a commander on their own, even more so the non-Olivia vampires.

[DirkGently]

The rest of these I agree with, but who is in their right mind looks at this and says "frog tribal"

I mean, I'm sure someone is going to do that, but this card is a monster in a self mill deck.

Heck, you could entirely cut out the on attack ability and it would still be decent.

Well, it IS frog tribal, but fair point that it could also be used as a payoff for self-mill. That said, I still doubt I'd be interested since it kinda wants a high permanent count for a good hit rate, at least for a value plan. There's probably some combo version that dumps its library and then casts its combo pieces but that obviously doesn't appeal to me either.

But I was a bit unfair, I'll revise to 2/5.

Still, nothing above a 3/5 is pretty awful for a set. I'm not sure I'll build anything tbh.

[BeneTleilax]

I think I'll build Millicent, honestly. I like having a swarm creature deck, and she gives solid resilience, evasive tokens, and low combo potential. The actual set proper looks like a mess though, and I have a feeling, from the general sloppiness, that the limited is going to suck as well.

[Jemolk]

I actually love tribal, and yet the set is giving me mostly similar vibes to what Dirk was saying. I think I'll probably finally get around to building sea monster tribal now that it's got a U/B commander rather than pushing me into U/G (I hate the typical play pattern I've seen from Simic big dumb stuff). So Runo Stromkirk is cool, but mainly IMHO for his colors and the tribe he supports, not really for himself. Beyond that, everything strikes me as supremely uninspired. Doran is a far more interesting tribal commander than anything here by miles, Runo Stromkirk included. There's a tiny handful of cards I'll want, but overall, this set bores me. And you know, I'm okay with that. Continual hype gets exhausting, so it's nice to take a break once in a while, even if it is because Wizards botched a set.

[pokken]

Why in the hell have we not gotten a "search your library for a creature with flying" effect yet? How hard would it be? How generically fun would that be? People would love the hell out of playing goofy flying toolbox creatures.

OG Isperia is kinda boring. I do like this effect, though, but I do not know how many other people use Mwonvuli Beast Tracker.

I looove beast tracker. Isperia is just 7 kinds of awkward…expensive two colors and attack trigger. If she was etb or attack she'd get a lot more love.

How bout a tutor for flash creatures or cascade into flying or flash, or whatever. They could think of stuff like that doesn't just jam spirits

Imagine a dude who makes it so any time you return a creature to anyones hand it makes a spirit token.

@Jemolk Doran is an amazing example of level 1 tribal design. Tree folks have fat butts so synergy. But so do walls and lots of other creatures. So it has more angles.

There was briefly a 4c tree folk deck that played four spellskites because Doran made them 4/4s. So sick.

[Jemolk]

@Jemolk Doran is an amazing example of level 1 tribal design. Tree folks have fat butts so synergy. But so do walls and lots of other creatures. So it has more angles.

He's one of my favorites of my tribal decks for exactly that reason. The other one I'm unreasonably happy with being Sol'kanar the Swamp King Demon tribal, with all the life payments for various effects that demons have and the fact that they're all at least part black. Of course, it wouldn't be nearly as good if not for the number of other people who play black meaning that I can often gain a bit of life off other people's spells too.

Pity that we haven't seen anything like that in a while. All these are very on the nose.