It's a cute way of dealing with people playing overrun effects like Craterhoof. Kill not-me is better than fog much of the time. It also means that committed attackers might get put in some awkward situations. You could combo it with Siren's Call if you wanted it to be real weird.
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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I feel like it's missing the "other creatures can't attack" text. It'd be pretty embarrassing to use this to save yourself from their halfway-in attack, and then just get killed by the other half.
I think this card is terrible tbh. I'd think the main time you'd end up playing it is when the attacking player is in the lead, and thus is trying to eliminate players starting with/including you. In which case redirecting him into your potential allies means you're fighting 1v1 against a stronger player. I'd rather just fog and keep the other players in the game, even ignoring the higher mana cost.
If my goal is to blow out someone's combat, I'd play something like Comeuppance over this 100%. Or the blue version, Aetherspouts. If someone's beating the hell out of me, I'm probably a lot more interested in screwing them over than the other players. Theoretically maybe both happen if there's a bunch of blocks that are mutually destructive, but that seems pretty unlikely.
Basically this card seems like it's a great theoretical card...for situations that don't actually come up basically ever.
I think this card is terrible tbh. I'd think the main time you'd end up playing it is when the attacking player is in the lead, and thus is trying to eliminate players starting with/including you. In which case redirecting him into your potential allies means you're fighting 1v1 against a stronger player. I'd rather just fog and keep the other players in the game, even ignoring the higher mana cost.
If my goal is to blow out someone's combat, I'd play something like Comeuppance over this 100%. Or the blue version, Aetherspouts. If someone's beating the hell out of me, I'm probably a lot more interested in screwing them over than the other players. Theoretically maybe both happen if there's a bunch of blocks that are mutually destructive, but that seems pretty unlikely.
Basically this card seems like it's a great theoretical card...for situations that don't actually come up basically ever.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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Hawk Slayer of Threads
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This has even more "ifs" on it than Aetherize and Aetherspouts, two cards I find to be decent but overrated.
- IF your opponent is attacking you (and only you or your planeswalkers; this has no political aspects to it at all)...
- AND you've held up four mana
- You can use this to fog that attack, and force them into a different attack avenue.
- BUT, forcing the issue against someone else is only interesting if one of your other opponents is very weak (and can thus get killed/wrecked by your new puppet) or very strong (and can eviscerate the attacker's army as punishment for swinging at you)
- AND, opponent will get to choose who he or she goes at, so they will choose the one of those options that is best for them/worse for you.
- Oh, AND, that only happens if there are other opponents to attack; if we're in a one-versus-one endgame this is just a weird expensive Moment of Silence
-....a weird expensive moment of silence that triggers "on attack" things for your opponent, which is small but may matter.
- And as with the two spells I compared this too, this is only a big "Gotcha" when opponents blind swing their entire army. If they just make a tentative single attack, this is real inefficient compared to just killing the target.
I can't imagine any deck anywhere ever where this is better than Aetherize or Aetherspouts.
EDIT: Nevermind that in blue, for one more CMC you can just cast Evacuation or Devastation Tide, or at the same CMC you can pre-combat Cryptic Command or Turnabout to engineer similar blowouts, but those cards also have many other amazing functions. Or of course, good ol' Reins of Power if you want to introduce a little anarchy into the game. Competition for "tricky blue instants that mess with combat math" is stiff.
- IF your opponent is attacking you (and only you or your planeswalkers; this has no political aspects to it at all)...
- AND you've held up four mana
- You can use this to fog that attack, and force them into a different attack avenue.
- BUT, forcing the issue against someone else is only interesting if one of your other opponents is very weak (and can thus get killed/wrecked by your new puppet) or very strong (and can eviscerate the attacker's army as punishment for swinging at you)
- AND, opponent will get to choose who he or she goes at, so they will choose the one of those options that is best for them/worse for you.
- Oh, AND, that only happens if there are other opponents to attack; if we're in a one-versus-one endgame this is just a weird expensive Moment of Silence
-....a weird expensive moment of silence that triggers "on attack" things for your opponent, which is small but may matter.
- And as with the two spells I compared this too, this is only a big "Gotcha" when opponents blind swing their entire army. If they just make a tentative single attack, this is real inefficient compared to just killing the target.
I can't imagine any deck anywhere ever where this is better than Aetherize or Aetherspouts.
EDIT: Nevermind that in blue, for one more CMC you can just cast Evacuation or Devastation Tide, or at the same CMC you can pre-combat Cryptic Command or Turnabout to engineer similar blowouts, but those cards also have many other amazing functions. Or of course, good ol' Reins of Power if you want to introduce a little anarchy into the game. Competition for "tricky blue instants that mess with combat math" is stiff.
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander: Current(ish) Arsenal
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
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Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
----
Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
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Wednesday, June 17th, 2020; Sphere of Resistance
The OG stax piece. It's amazing how much more fair you force decks to play when you +1 their cost.
The OG stax piece. It's amazing how much more fair you force decks to play when you +1 their cost.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
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I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
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I have a somewhat mixed opinion of Sphere of Resistance. As a general rule, I'm not a fan of dedicated stax decks - I prefer it when people are able to play their cards and advance the game. That said, if you're not planning to stack these effects, I don't mind nearly as much - it's relatively inoffensive in a vacuum, and it is symmetric. It's definitely an annoying tempo play if you play it early - I know a lot of hands I keep look like '3 lands + Cultivate', and not being able to cast a spell on turn 3 throws them off pretty significantly.
Speaking more broadly, this sort of effect is strongest against decks that are planning to cast lots of spells. Dedicated storm decks are the most obvious example, but commanders like Animar, Soul of Elements and Mizzix of the Izmagnus are capable of powering through it, as can decks with enough cost reducers. On the other hand, if you don't have those cost reducers, it will shut you down pretty hard. They're also pretty good against cards like Golos, Tireless Pilgrim and Maelstrom Wanderer that cast spells for free. If you want to get really nasty, throw in Possibility Storm to force your opponents to pay twice.
As for other stuff... Depending on what you're trying to shut down, Damping Sphere may be a more powerful card - it doesn't apply to the first spell cast, so it's harder to lock people out. However, it scales better against decks casting 3+ spells per turn. Targeted tax effects like Lodestone Golem and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben are also worth consideration.
Speaking more broadly, this sort of effect is strongest against decks that are planning to cast lots of spells. Dedicated storm decks are the most obvious example, but commanders like Animar, Soul of Elements and Mizzix of the Izmagnus are capable of powering through it, as can decks with enough cost reducers. On the other hand, if you don't have those cost reducers, it will shut you down pretty hard. They're also pretty good against cards like Golos, Tireless Pilgrim and Maelstrom Wanderer that cast spells for free. If you want to get really nasty, throw in Possibility Storm to force your opponents to pay twice.
As for other stuff... Depending on what you're trying to shut down, Damping Sphere may be a more powerful card - it doesn't apply to the first spell cast, so it's harder to lock people out. However, it scales better against decks casting 3+ spells per turn. Targeted tax effects like Lodestone Golem and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben are also worth consideration.
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Hawk Slayer of Threads
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Mookie said it all. I was thinking to myself - if/when we get hypothetical "Trifle Mage" that hits 2 CMC (to go along with Trophy Mage, Trinket Mage, and Treasure Mage), would this ever be in my toolbox? And I think...no. I think that'll be one of the last, for the record, as it hits mana rocks and combo pieces really reliably. For the toolbox options though, If I'm concerned with messing with degenerate decks I'll be targeting Thorn of Amethyst, Defense Grid, and/or Damping Sphere for the job. Because this is 100% symmetrical, it's tough to break the symmetry unless you're stacking it under more STAX effects and that's just not a playstyle I appreciate.
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander: Current(ish) Arsenal
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
----
Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
----
Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
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I had an idea to run this in Narset stax list I'm running but Sphere is quite expensive €€ wise and I would like to play it only after I have narset down which is quite slow.
You mean tribute mage?Hawk wrote: ↑4 years agoMookie said it all. I was thinking to myself - if/when we get hypothetical "Trifle Mage" that hits 2 CMC (to go along with Trophy Mage, Trinket Mage, and Treasure Mage),
Last edited by illakunsaa 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
@Hawk - you're thinking of Tribute Mage. I will agree that it misses out on my Tribute toolbox, but that's partially because the decks I run it in (Thada and Brago) much prefer mana rocks and Lightning Greaves. Sphere of Resistance would be a good pick if I were running Brago (or Grand Arbiter Augustin IV) stax though - while it wouldn't be my first pick as an anti-storm hate piece (Damping Sphere is better there), it is preferable for a general stax deck. Plus you'd probably want a pretty high redundancy of lock pieces anyway.
(but, again, I dislike stax decks)
(but, again, I dislike stax decks)
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Hawk Slayer of Threads
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illakunsaa wrote: ↑4 years agoI had an idea to run this in Narset stax list I'm running but Sphere is quite expensive €€ wise and I would like to play it only after I have narset down which is quite slow.
You mean tribute mage?Hawk wrote: ↑4 years agoMookie said it all. I was thinking to myself - if/when we get hypothetical "Trifle Mage" that hits 2 CMC (to go along with Trophy Mage, Trinket Mage, and Treasure Mage),
Wow...I'm usually like a magic encyclopedia but somehow totally missed this was printed. I like my name betterMookie wrote: ↑4 years agoHawk - you're thinking of Tribute Mage. I will agree that it misses out on my Tribute toolbox, but that's partially because the decks I run it in (Thada and Brago) much prefer mana rocks and Lightning Greaves. Sphere of Resistance would be a good pick if I were running Brago (or Grand Arbiter Augustin IV) stax though - while it wouldn't be my first pick as an anti-storm hate piece (Damping Sphere is better there), it is preferable for a general stax deck. Plus you'd probably want a pretty high redundancy of lock pieces anyway.
(but, again, I dislike stax decks)
![Sticking Out Tongue :P](./images/smilies/3-tongue-fb.png)
BRB ordering a copy for Sai since it hits Greaves, mana rocks, and Arcbound Ravager.
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander: Current(ish) Arsenal
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
----
Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
----
Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
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Thursday, June 18th, 2020; Toothy, Imaginary Friend and I guess Pir, Imaginative Rascal.
Saw Toothy come up. Knew we couldn't look at one without the other. So what do we think about this power lifting commander pair? The flavour is so hot.
Saw Toothy come up. Knew we couldn't look at one without the other. So what do we think about this power lifting commander pair? The flavour is so hot.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
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I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
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....inb4 comments about The Ozolith flood in 😂
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
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I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
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Hmmmm... I'm suddenly overcome with a BURNING DESIRE to test these two out in Animar. Pir, Imaginative Rascal is effectively Elvish Visionary + Hardened Scales, both of which are pretty good cards in the deck. Toothy, Imaginary Friend is a little more questionable in the deck though - I generally prefer to draw my cards immediately. That said, being able to fetch up Pir isn't bad, and Toothy is certainly capable of drawing a lot of cards. I suppose the main downside is that they are a bit vulnerable to disruption - Toothy could get killed immediately, while Pir doesn't do much without Animar or Toothy out, since I'm not running many creatures with +1/+1 counters. Hmmm...
Speaking more broadly, these two do pretty much what it says on the tin - Pir is great for all of Simic's counter synergies (+1/+1 or otherwise), while Toothy works well with any card draw effects. Dig a little deeper though, and Pir is an incredibly powerful enabler for any sort of superfriends deck due to adding extra loyalty counters, while Toothy is absurd with any blink effects like Ghostly Flicker, since the card draw triggers off leaving the battlefield. As a result, there are actually quite a few directions you can take the two. While they're certainly better together, I don't think they're that far off being played individually, if you really care about what they're doing. You do want to be in a meta that allows creatures to stick around for an extended amount of time though - they're a little too slow for me to recommend for a higher-powered meta.
As commanders, they're reasonable, but there are a lot of other options for +1/+1 counter decks in Simic - Experiment Kraj does all sorts of combo nonsense, while Vorel of the Hull Clade scales things even more absurdly. And if you expand to more colors, Atraxa, Praetors' Voice starts to look pretty enticing, especially if you're doing something with planeswalkers.
Speaking more broadly, these two do pretty much what it says on the tin - Pir is great for all of Simic's counter synergies (+1/+1 or otherwise), while Toothy works well with any card draw effects. Dig a little deeper though, and Pir is an incredibly powerful enabler for any sort of superfriends deck due to adding extra loyalty counters, while Toothy is absurd with any blink effects like Ghostly Flicker, since the card draw triggers off leaving the battlefield. As a result, there are actually quite a few directions you can take the two. While they're certainly better together, I don't think they're that far off being played individually, if you really care about what they're doing. You do want to be in a meta that allows creatures to stick around for an extended amount of time though - they're a little too slow for me to recommend for a higher-powered meta.
As commanders, they're reasonable, but there are a lot of other options for +1/+1 counter decks in Simic - Experiment Kraj does all sorts of combo nonsense, while Vorel of the Hull Clade scales things even more absurdly. And if you expand to more colors, Atraxa, Praetors' Voice starts to look pretty enticing, especially if you're doing something with planeswalkers.
I use Toothy, Imaginary Friend as the commander of my Mono-U Illusion deck. Don't have much use for Pir, Imaginative Rascal though. Mostly, I'm just sad/annoyed that none of the "partner's with" pairs ever share a creature type, and none of the pairs (this one included) are interesting enough for me to do a non-tribal build just to use both in the command zone (I have very few non-tribal builds).
In casual, I think having Toothy's effect is just fine as a deterrent to opponent's removing him even without abusing him with flicker, unsummon, etc. And you can get some extra value with just a few effects to use that interaction without going "all-in" on the theme. I like his versatility. Pir is just a generic enabler. If you are doing a counter theme deck and need another enabler, he's fine. But there are a number of enablers that I think would slot before him, so it depends on how many slots you want to devote to that type of effect.
In casual, I think having Toothy's effect is just fine as a deterrent to opponent's removing him even without abusing him with flicker, unsummon, etc. And you can get some extra value with just a few effects to use that interaction without going "all-in" on the theme. I like his versatility. Pir is just a generic enabler. If you are doing a counter theme deck and need another enabler, he's fine. But there are a number of enablers that I think would slot before him, so it depends on how many slots you want to devote to that type of effect.
V/R
Treamayne
Treamayne
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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Low-key hate them. Draw cards, get counters...boring and dumb. Hard pass.
I don't think I've played against a P&T deck that was remotely interesting.
Wow, I'm in a judgey mood.
I don't think I've played against a P&T deck that was remotely interesting.
Wow, I'm in a judgey mood.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I had a Toothy/Pir deck based around the whole +1/+1 counter thing. I felt it was quite fun, since it wasn't a combo deck, and just kind of wanted to deposit counters on creatures and then turn them sideways, but excelled because it drew so many cards. Since you could draw so many cards, cards like The Great Aurora really shone, and the deck was over-all fairly enjoyable.
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materpillar the caterpillar
- Posts: 1386
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: Unlisted
- Location: Ohio
Not EDH related but I played in the Battlebond (I think that's the set they were in) 2-headed giant against these two. Fun Fact: Toothy, Imaginary Friend and Pir, Imaginative Rascal triggers are manditory. We made Toothy, Imaginary Friend a 30/30 or something by targeting our opponent Lore Weaver. Then decked them with a bounce spell. Good memories.
Anyway, I don't mind this pair. They seem to sit at a pretty nice powerlevel. They're strong but fair feeling. They enable a bunch of stuff. I don't think I've ever played any game against them I hated. They also don't offer anything to my playstyle personally but I can see why others would like them.
Anyway, I don't mind this pair. They seem to sit at a pretty nice powerlevel. They're strong but fair feeling. They enable a bunch of stuff. I don't think I've ever played any game against them I hated. They also don't offer anything to my playstyle personally but I can see why others would like them.
I like this pair, I use them in the 99 of a few decks.
EDH decks and themes I'm currently playing!
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Tresserhorn (zombies, check out my primer!]) | Roon (blink) | Vial Smasher+Thrasios (big dudes) | Marath (tokens) | Jhoira (artifacts) | Thassa (sea monsters)
Jodah (flavor text tribal) | Slivers/Atogs/Allies/Spirits (5c tribal modular) | Xantcha (group slug) | Gitrog (non-combo)
Zur (cycling) | Yennett (spyhinx control) | Geist (1v1) | Kamahl (1v1) | Grenzo (goblins) | Bolas (discard)
Kadena (morph) | Kenrith (legendary activated abilities) | Nethroi (reanimator) | Xyris (combat tricks) | Ayula (bears)
Jodah (flavor text tribal) | Slivers/Atogs/Allies/Spirits (5c tribal modular) | Xantcha (group slug) | Gitrog (non-combo)
Zur (cycling) | Yennett (spyhinx control) | Geist (1v1) | Kamahl (1v1) | Grenzo (goblins) | Bolas (discard)
Kadena (morph) | Kenrith (legendary activated abilities) | Nethroi (reanimator) | Xyris (combat tricks) | Ayula (bears)
I find Pir's effect to be generally fine and fair, but Toothy is oppressive. The volume of card draw he represents is pretty absurd and there're very few ways to stop it short of countering it every time it hits the stack.
I did play him in my The Mimeoplasm deck and it was pretty fun to copy him with mime but it gave me a real sense for how annoying it is to have your commander draw 10 cards or whatever. One or two times of The Mimeoplasm on Fathom Mage and drawing 10 cards was enough for me to take the deck apart.
The explosive nature of the card draw tends to reward deckbuilding that will close the game out immediately after the burst of card draw too which is not super fun.
I did play him in my The Mimeoplasm deck and it was pretty fun to copy him with mime but it gave me a real sense for how annoying it is to have your commander draw 10 cards or whatever. One or two times of The Mimeoplasm on Fathom Mage and drawing 10 cards was enough for me to take the deck apart.
The explosive nature of the card draw tends to reward deckbuilding that will close the game out immediately after the burst of card draw too which is not super fun.
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Hawk Slayer of Threads
- Posts: 1175
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Budget reasons have my Simic deck currently helmed by Vorel of the Hull Clade instead of these two; I would totally have done them instead for +1/+1 counter tribal if it was in the money. For my money they are the best +1/+1 counter commanders as they are the most powerful and the most versatile in supporting the beatdown (battlecruiser or go wide or borth), combo, and control directions, allowing one to build a deck as strong as their meta needs and also build their deck in a way that seems like it would attack from lots of different angles.
- Vorel tends to default to battlecruiser beatdown (making massive threats massive-er or making Astral Cornucopia launch ginormous haymakers) or infinite comboes fueled by Magistrate's Scepter and Sage of Hours.
- Experiment Kraj is sooooo sloooooow that he more or less has to build any number of infinite mana shenanigans to be playable (I say this from Experience).
- Zegana, Utopian Speaker is sort of meh, and probably best in a go-wide strat or more merfolk-leaning version?
- Vorel tends to default to battlecruiser beatdown (making massive threats massive-er or making Astral Cornucopia launch ginormous haymakers) or infinite comboes fueled by Magistrate's Scepter and Sage of Hours.
- Experiment Kraj is sooooo sloooooow that he more or less has to build any number of infinite mana shenanigans to be playable (I say this from Experience).
- Zegana, Utopian Speaker is sort of meh, and probably best in a go-wide strat or more merfolk-leaning version?
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander: Current(ish) Arsenal
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
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Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
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Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
- Posts: 4999
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria
I love that every time this pair comes out it's always by that guy that "just made a new deck lolz" that swears they don't know what they're doing. But then they draw all the cards and accidentally the whole game like any other lame simic player that thinks they're clever.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
Kaalia HQ
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/1-smile-fb.png)
Kaalia HQ
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
- Posts: 4999
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria
Friday, June 19th, 2020; Horobi, Death's Wail
Problems with equipment players? Ruin their days! Man, I remember when this guy was one of the total troll commanders, and what my old butt Vhati il-Dal morphed into. But he's all but forgotten these days. I wonder why.
I had found memories of smothering your creatures to death with Flying Carpet .....(it was more a joke than a strong card as obviously Urborg was better).
Problems with equipment players? Ruin their days! Man, I remember when this guy was one of the total troll commanders, and what my old butt Vhati il-Dal morphed into. But he's all but forgotten these days. I wonder why.
I had found memories of smothering your creatures to death with Flying Carpet .....(it was more a joke than a strong card as obviously Urborg was better).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
Kaalia HQ
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/1-smile-fb.png)
Kaalia HQ
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
- Posts: 4744
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
Horobi is definitely an annoying commander. He can force your opponents into a basically "kill him every time or you never get to make your deck work" situation. He can really grind games to a halt since no one can keep a creature on the board. Which isn't usually super fun.
I think the better/funner way to play him, most likely, is to consider him more as a spell than a permanent effect. Resolve him, activate a bunch of targeting stuff, then sac him before anyone else gets priority to target YOUR stuff. EzPz Plague Wind. Throw in some recursion and you're good to go.
I think the better/funner way to play him, most likely, is to consider him more as a spell than a permanent effect. Resolve him, activate a bunch of targeting stuff, then sac him before anyone else gets priority to target YOUR stuff. EzPz Plague Wind. Throw in some recursion and you're good to go.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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folding_music glitter pen on my mana crypt
- Posts: 2434
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: they / them
I love Horobi :3 just the existence of that particular spirit keeps me building more decks even though I'm not really playing against anyone, cos I look at my Callaphe and Siona stacks and Horobi just counters the entire deck for four mana. i like that sort of presence in the game cos it's not overpowered at all but makes you totally rethink what you value
also makes it impossible to Capsize with a successful buyback
also makes it impossible to Capsize with a successful buyback