The Way of the One True Warrior - Kellan Equipment Toolbox

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

I'm with @Dunadain here - alseid isn't awful but there are enough better options in the slot that I don't see running it. Mom needs to tap, sure, but being repeatable seems like a rather huge advantage unless there's a good argument to the contrary. Tbh I think being able to activate it immediately isn't as useful as it sounds anyway - if Kellan was a threat already, they could have used removal before you played the protection card, or even in response. And if you play Kellan afterwards ofc it doesn't matter. At any rate, I think our instants will be our immediate protection, and they come with the element of surprise which no on-board protection can provide.

For the record I think bodyguard and savior are just okay. Mom is the clear best. Skrelv and giver are both solid. We'll see how many I find slots for, lots of competition.

As far as equipment, since I can't seem to stop thinking about it, I think I'm off the Komainu Battle Armor. I think my first instinct was correct. Late-game it's going to be hard to punch through to make it happen, and early-game we don't know enough about how the game will play out to commit to constantly goading someone. Not to mention it's annoying and will likely draw removal quickly, from either effected party. That brings us down to the desired 8, woohoo.

Surprisingly I think I'm also off SoFaI and back onto Mask of Memory instead. Primarily because it fits better into the 2-3-4 curveout. The evasion is nice but I think the buff makes it more likely that people will take chump blocks and take us more seriously as a threat. Also the pinging can draw ire pretty easily as well, depending how it's used. Mask is just a straightforward draw engine, no frills. I could even see an argument for Infiltration Lens potentially, though it doesn't exploit our double strike.

I did do some thinking on 1-drops and fast mana. Protection guys are obviously in high consideration. esper sentinel is obviously amazing though somewhat counterproductive with our goal of emptying our hand, but I guess filtering is also good. Wayfarer (and Expedition Map) will depend on how important utility lands end up being. Ragavan seems like a really good mana ramp and/or backup - the dash option makes him harder to interact with in the late game as well. Welder sounds cool but I think I'm off it - we're not tutoring into the graveyard so running it out turn 1 seems kinda pointless, anyone who wants to blow up our equipment will blow up the welder first. Beamtown beatstick I've gone back and forth on - it's a decent equipment that does fit into the 1 spot, but I'm not sure if it does enough.

Other 1-drops I've been thinking about:
Probably don't need extra grave hate with the lion sash tutorable? sigarda's sounds great in theory but I'm not sure many of our equipment benefit all that much from it. Not sure how highly to value haste - normally it'd be kinda mid because it's too expensive to recast a commander and equip in the same turn. But since we preload the commander tax onto the adventure, it means we can plausibly do a lot of equipping the turn we cast Kellan's actual body. And ofc they're great with bitterthorn.

And fast mana:
I think the suspend stuff is probably too slow, but I like most of the other stuff. Not sure how I feel about lotus - it's great for getting Kellan out T2 with a tutor, and it does fit nicely into a curve if we're going for Mask of Memory. But it doesn't help with a bitterthorn curve or a jitte curve. And it might be a brick late.

Amber is still decent but somewhat amusingly weak here since it doesn't generate white for protective spells or good removal. Probably the worst of the remaining fast mana at least. vault lets us T2 commander or bitterthorn, chrome mox, mox diamond, and gemstone accelerate us permanently by a turn, ofc sol ring and mana crypt are givens - though sol ring can't accelerate the commander or bitterthorn any faster than normal, tragically.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
10 months ago
I guess it depends on how many enchantments the list is running, and how important they are, but I find it hard to believe Alseid of Life's Bounty is going to be better than Benevolent Bodyguard.
You'd be surprised how useful the lifelink is - but this deck is also going to have a decent number of auras I'd imagine. I'd play Benevolent Bodyguard first. Selfless Savior is a meta call; destruction vs. protection is a big difference.

Bodyguard for sure comes first, but the tapping guys I think I'd play after. :shrug: ymmv.

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Ruiner
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Post by Ruiner » 10 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
10 months ago
As far as equipment, since I can't seem to stop thinking about it, I think I'm off the Komainu Battle Armor. I think my first instinct was correct. Late-game it's going to be hard to punch through to make it happen, and early-game we don't know enough about how the game will play out to commit to constantly goading someone. Not to mention it's annoying and will likely draw removal quickly, from either effected party. That brings us down to the desired 8, woohoo.
Not that I'm necessarily trying to change your mind, but I've definitely liked this creature/equipment in my Nahiri, Forged in Fury deck, which jams quite a few Sword of X and Y, plus more equipment. With my specific commander it makes her cheaper and potentially comes down for free with her trigger. Beyond that though, I like it as a decent equipment wielder itself when needed. The flexibility has been a positive for me. I wouldn't say it's amazing or a must play, but I haven't regretted it so far.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 10 months ago

pokken wrote:
10 months ago
Bodyguard for sure comes first, but the tapping guys I think I'd play after. :shrug: ymmv.
That's certainly an unusual perspective, Mother of Runes has more than 10x bodyguard's play on EDHrec. Not that the masses are a great metric of what's powerful, but I think the benefits of repeatable activation are fairly obvious. Especially for non-protective uses like evasion.

Savior also sees more than double the play. Obviously the bodyguard is more effective at blocking removal being cast in response to your attack, since almost all of that is targeted, but savior does have the advantage that it doesn't get 2-for-1ed by a board wipe like mother of runes and all the other protective creatures, if they die alongside their protectee.

Care to make an argument?

As far as auras, we've got a few removal auras and possibly a few curses but I think's about it.

@Ruiner as a toolbox deck, my consideration isn't simply "is this a good card?" so much as "is this a card that I will use my tutor for - and if so, in what circumstance?" I don't think the circumstance where I'd search for KBA is very plausible.

Nahiri rewards playing tons and tons of equipment. Kellan only directly rewards playing equipment that has a use-case for tutoring. Case in point - I've just cut the last sword of X and Y in the deck because I don't think they have a good enough use case. It's a high bar rn.

edit: actually, king of the flip-floppers here, I might actually go back to SoFaI. Not because SoFaI is better but because pro red means we can plan for red damage-based board wipes and survive through them.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Sure. Mom is a horrendous topdeck and can't really attack. I don't play those cards because they can't safely turn sideways and can't be played and then used. (I do have one deck still running mom and it's ge oketra who she's a good topdeck for since any 1 drop is a great draw)

My perspective is that of a breena deck but the play patterns are fairly similar. You want to be able to attack with your whole board and still keep interaction up. Any creature that can't do it's thing while attacking with a sword is questionable.

Mom is super medium in this deck. It's a bad top deck because it's a turn away from doing anything and it's not that that great on curve because you don't want to suit it up.

Alseid you can slap a Sword of Hearth and Home on and go to town while still protecting your commander.

If you topdeck alseid with lethal on board you can play it, snuff a blocker and then win.

There are definitely games you will dominate with an on curve mom. But for every one of those games you'll topdeck her four times and wish you'd had a good card.

Alseid specifically I have found great because slapping with a 5/5 lifelinker is a gameplan a lot of times.

Edit: I should add that savior is not high on my list. You don't need that much wipe protection. Your commander is super resilient to board wipes. You need to protect yourself from gilded drake and removal in response to equip activations and things along that lines. The side benefit of pushing a lethal attack through is nice fringe benefit.

Ymmv.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

@pokken I don't see a reason why mom is a worse attacker than alseid, setting aside the lifelink. If Kellan is off the field and I just need a warm body to trigger equipment, then they're both equivalent. I don't have a reason to keep mom "up" without Kellan. The most valuable creature on my board without Kellan is probably mom/alseid itself, once it's equipped, and neither can protect itself while attacking (unless mom has vigilance).

I will likely be running some haste enabling lands, even if I don't run the haste enabling 1-drops. So mom isn't necessarily useless the turn it enters either.

Idk what your breena deck is doing but I don't think I have any interest in attacking with my whole board. I'm certainly not running any anthems. If Kellan is out, I probably want all my equipment to go onto Kellan. If he's not, I'll either put the equipment onto the protective creature (none of which can protect themself except mom with vigilance) or some other creature like bitterthorn germ token or lion sash (in which case mom works fine).

Idk what "If you topdeck alseid with lethal on board you can play it, snuff a blocker and then win." means. Do you mean give pro from the blocker's colors? That's true but a haste enabler for mom would accomplish the same thing. Obviously that's not necessarily reliable but by the time I'm trying to kill someone I've probably had plenty of time to tutor equipment like sunforger which can remove all blockers guaranteed. The alseid plan only works if they're limited to one color of blockers, which is a very narrow situation imo.

Tbf I don't think alseid OR mom is going to be a fantastic draw on turn 6 most of the time, but that's kinda just the nature of most 1-drops. I might draw mom and wish it was removal or a strong equipment, but I don't really see myself drawing mom and wishing it was an alseid except in very rare circumstances like the lethal-on-board-all-one-color-blockers situation.

I'm not running Sword of Hearth and Home, but if I was, why wouldn't I want that on my double-striking commander instead of a 1-drop? It's not like alseid has evasion that Kellan doesn't have or anything that would make it a superior attacker. In fact it's more vulnerable since it dies to enchantment removal. I could throw it on if Kellan isn't on board, but again, then it doesn't really matter about being able to protect him.

If I need life gain I have it on tap, with either shadowspear, jitte, or sunforger, all tutorable off my commander, so I don't think having a lifelink attacker is very relevant. Especially since I will want to equip my commander the vast majority of the time, and the only weapon in the arsenal that vastly boosts power is jitte which already provides its own life gain. I guess lion sash does too, to be fair. Still, seems pretty uncommon to happen that way.

Gilded drake seems like a bad use case for Alseid because the biggest risk would be someone dropping it right after an on-curve Kellan where I don't have mana up, and mom would protect me while Alseid wouldn't. That said I don't think I've seen gilded drake on the other side of the table (or would that be, on my side of the table?) in many years. While getting my commander yoinked or otherwise neutralized would obviously be very bad, we'll be running a large suite of removal which can solve any potential problem - even if it might be kinda ugly in the drake situation since I'd probably need to kill my own commander. At least a 3/3 flyer isn't an awful swordbearer.

I'm not necessarily big on savior either - not because I think we don't care about wipes, but because we'll probably already have some instants that give indestructible, plus robe of mirrors. I think I'll probably run mom, giver, and skrelv and not bodyguard, savior, or alseid.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Ok here's where I'm at so far. Really agonizing over this list lol. Guess I've got a couple of weeks to figure it out though, so I might as well.

Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Alright I took a first look through for lands. I think we can go reasonably deep on utility lands because we only need a single Plateau to cast both halves of our commander and a lot of the equipment is ofc colorless, plus if we're getting bitterthorn we'll have reliable fixing - though ofc we will want a good dose of basics so we don't miss hits off it. Anyway, here's where I'm at so far.

Obviously I'm way over count here but I want to have a think about all of these. FWIW I had even more on first pass lol. I can't resist a good utility land.
Last edited by DirkGently 9 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

I assume Dwarven Armory is a typo, but can't think what it's supposed to be.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
I assume Dwarven Armory is a typo, but can't think what it's supposed to be.
I don't know what you're talking about, it's Dwarven Mine and it was always dwarven mine. :P

I probably just brain-deadedly thought armory because of the Axgard armory above it...just a funny coincidence that dwarven armory is also a card (technically).
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Okay I've gotten utility lands down to a more reasonable number:

As far as fixing lands, cutting Needle Spires and Inspiring Vantage.

That still only gives us 9 slots for basics, and that's because we're running 40 lands lol. I honestly don't understand how people can casually run 30 basics in a 2c deck. Cutting The Mycosynth Gardens and Ancient Tomb felt like pulling teeth. I guess I could cut Rugged Prairie, that gives us 10 basics. Ouch ouchy ow.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by capitacommunist » 9 months ago

It might be worth considering Weathered Wayfarer given some of the toolbox options in your mana base, although it doesn't fit in the curve that well. I think you could also consider Footfall Crater over one of the two one drop haste givers. The additional evasion, cycling, ability to tutor it, and better topdeck are worth the additional mana to activate I think.
I also struggle to see Ondu inversion being better than Ancient Tomb (or Emeria, Shattered Skyclave for that matter). In my experience in white/Boros decks eight mana just comes too late to be worth the cost of a tapped utility land, especially given its a reactive symmetrical wipe. Emeria is at least proactive.

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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

The more I think about it, the more dubious I am towards Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus, seems like it's great if you are planning on tutoring it up first, otherwise, I'm hard pressed to think of when you would want to tutor it up.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
Other: Karrthus, Eris, Emiel, The Blessed, Ruhan, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
The more I think about it, the more dubious I am towards Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus, seems like it's great if you are planning on tutoring it up first, otherwise, I'm hard pressed to think of when you would want to tutor it up.
I would get it first almost every game - it's the type of early game play where no one will sweat it, and it creates a steady stream of CA+Ramp that sets you up for the inevitable long game.

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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
The more I think about it, the more dubious I am towards Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus, seems like it's great if you are planning on tutoring it up first, otherwise, I'm hard pressed to think of when you would want to tutor it up.
I would get it first almost every game - it's the type of early game play where no one will sweat it, and it creates a steady stream of CA+Ramp that sets you up for the inevitable long game.
But it sounds like that's not what @DirkGently wants to do, and if you aren't tutoring it first, then it because significantly less appealing.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
Other: Karrthus, Eris, Emiel, The Blessed, Ruhan, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
and if you aren't tutoring it first, then it because significantly less appealing.
It's pretty fine to draw on curve too.

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

capitacommunist wrote:
9 months ago
It might be worth considering Weathered Wayfarer given some of the toolbox options in your mana base, although it doesn't fit in the curve that well. I think you could also consider Footfall Crater over one of the two one drop haste givers. The additional evasion, cycling, ability to tutor it, and better topdeck are worth the additional mana to activate I think.
I also struggle to see Ondu inversion being better than Ancient Tomb (or Emeria, Shattered Skyclave for that matter). In my experience in white/Boros decks eight mana just comes too late to be worth the cost of a tapped utility land, especially given its a reactive symmetrical wipe. Emeria is at least proactive.
WW is decent but idk if we're so reliant on utility lands for it to be worthwhile. We'll see how I feel about the haste enablers and if those suck I might be in the market for alternative 1-drops.

Footfall I've moved off because it doesn't give haste to the bitterthorn line, which I think is a big advantage to the 1-drop haste enablers. That said the 1 mana cycling and trample enabling are nice adds. Something had to get cut - maybe I'll try it in some future version.

Comparing ondu inversion to ancient tomb is very apples to oranges - I think it's valuable to have another wipe, and while ondu inversion is overpriced it has a small footprint on the deck. Emeria I think is clearly not worth it here - obviously entering untapped is nice but I see very little reason to want to cast the front side, we're explicitly trying to win via commander damage not random 4/4 tokens. For a 7 mana play emeria accomplishes very very little in a commander context. Ondu inversion is slightly more expensive but it will reliably have a major impact.
Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
The more I think about it, the more dubious I am towards Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus, seems like it's great if you are planning on tutoring it up first, otherwise, I'm hard pressed to think of when you would want to tutor it up.
I am planning to tutor it up first so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The alternative is a fairly aggressive line with jitte or something, which could be good in a faster paced meta but I think the option to slowroll and build value is worthwhile, especially to lead into a sunforger line.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Got to play this deck for the first time last night. Paid $30 nzd for that damn Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus to finish it. You best believe I tutored it first every game lol.

I really enjoyed it, definitely believe it could be one of my favorites. Not sure if I'll perm it since I think it's fairly expensive but it's not impossible. 2C manabases can be made cheaply and reasonably consistent if you cut a couple corners. Obviously will need a lot more play before I make that decision. Luckily the rest of this set I'm pretty meh on for commander, so hopefully I won't be too tempted to build other decks in the near future and I can give this a good long, run.

One question that came out of the night - I'm really sorry to say it, but I'm thinking that Mistveil Plains may not be worth it in this deck, and in fact may simply be too slow for the format. It's pretty hard to get 2 white permanents (Kellan being mono-red kinda kicks us in the nuts here), and also it's 2023 and I'm just not sure it's that reasonable to expect to have time to recycle spells over and over. Maybe if we were more capable of going all-in on sunforger with reliable instant-speed equips and better counterspells we could plan on a long control game, but realistically it's easier to go for the kill with Kellan than set up this overly complicated engine. Even when fully set up, Sunforger isn't that hard to disrupt - just wait until it gets used and then use removal before/in response to equip, and we're SOL. I still think sunforger is a great card here, but it's not our be-all-end-all and it's not worth spending so much time setting up.

So yeah, probably cut mistveil, and tithe while I'm at it. Probably put in Teferi's Protection - as long as I'm not planning to recur spells, may as well run strong ones that can't be recurred. Alternatively, Release to Memory (which is probably the best way to enable mistveil, funny enough).
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

I included the Mistveil Plains + Tithe package in my dedicated Akiri, Line-Slinger + Silas Renn, Seeker Adept Sunforger deck, and I'm convinced that the deck would have been better if I cut it, it's been too slow for the format for a long time XD.

Edit: Also, did you win? That's, of course, all that really matters XD.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
Other: Karrthus, Eris, Emiel, The Blessed, Ruhan, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

@Dunadain lol, I won the first game and I guess lost the second? I think I had a solid position in a standoff situation, hoping to angle into a 1v1 and then tutor up Overwhelming Splendor, but a few players left and it kinda screwed things up. And then I think my opponent miscalculated his damage to think he had lethal on board based on the assumption of creatures he didn't have anymore because their owner had left (which, amusingly, brings it back to the original topic of that thread) but I didn't think to double check him until he'd already "won" and picked up his cards so I figured it wasn't worth trying to reconstruct his board state. I think I could have won from that position depending on his hand, but it's hard to say. It does all kinda become meaningless imo once someone drops out at a crucial moment like that, but the rest of the game was great.

If you always have two white permanents I think it's okay, and recycling spells like Comeuppance can create soft locks on the game. But especially in this deck I think it's probably better to just have 2-3 fogs and plan to kill them before you run out.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
9 months ago
If you always have two white permanents I think it's okay, and recycling spells like Comeuppance can create soft locks on the game. But especially in this deck I think it's probably better to just have 2-3 fogs and plan to kill them before you run out.
Even then, it's only once per turn, and, as you said 2 white permanents is a tall order.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
Other: Karrthus, Eris, Emiel, The Blessed, Ruhan, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
Even then, it's only once per turn, and, as you said 2 white permanents is a tall order.
If we reliably had 2 white permanents in play, I'd leave it in. It's easy to tutor (solid odds off fetches in addition to the last resort of tithe) so it has an outsized impact for one slot, especially since it can also recycle equipment. But I don't think I ever had two white permanents in play so yeah, probably not worth it sadly.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

This applies more to the abstract concept of this deck, (the "way of the one true warrior" as you put it), rather than this particular list, but did you ever try Isshin, Two Heavens as One? Originally, I thought strike was going to be super important to getting bonus triggers, but looking at the list you ended up with, you only have two equipment that trigger off combat damage.

With Isshin, Two Heavens as One you get to go to town with cards like Sword of the Animist and Gisa's Favorite Shovel.

Obviously, you lose out on the tutor in the cz, and you end up with a pretty different deck, but if you've been trying to do this for awhile, have you ever considered him?
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Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
Other: Karrthus, Eris, Emiel, The Blessed, Ruhan, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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Post by DirkGently » 9 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
9 months ago
This applies more to the abstract concept of this deck, (the "way of the one true warrior" as you put it), rather than this particular list, but did you ever try Isshin, Two Heavens as One? Originally, I thought strike was going to be super important to getting bonus triggers, but looking at the list you ended up with, you only have two equipment that trigger off combat damage.

With Isshin, Two Heavens as One you get to go to town with cards like Sword of the Animist and Gisa's Favorite Shovel.

Obviously, you lose out on the tutor in the cz, and you end up with a pretty different deck, but if you've been trying to do this for awhile, have you ever considered him?
When the autocard failed on the shovel I wondered if it was the UW version of Lucille. Glad to be right. When are we seeing those?

Isshin isn't really what we're looking for. In Kellan I get to run only a couple attack-trigger equipment and get value from them reliably because I can tutor them if I wish. In Isshin, I'd need to run a high density of attack trigger equipment to reliably see value, which means committing a large percentage of the deck - if that much attack-trigger equipment even exists. Now we're just building regular voltron (if, again, it's even possible, which I doubt tbh). The value of Kellan is that you can run a low number of equipment (leaving room for a strong control deck) while still always having the one you need. Plus the double strike, which translates into safer attacks and more damage even if there's no damage trigger - Isshin's ability just does nothing if there's no attack trigger. There's really no comparison.
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Post by Dunadain » 9 months ago

How have the Goblin Motivators been? I see the appeal if they are in your opening hand, but they seem pretty bad at any other time. Obviously they can still give Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon haste after he gets removed, or hold an equipment, though they can't even do those things if a board wipe is what ended up killing Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
Other: Karrthus, Eris, Emiel, The Blessed, Ruhan, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

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