[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - The Golden Throne

[DirkGently]

For sure. But putting everyone's life totals to 20 is usually fine for the aggro deck.

Sure, but if you're the one spending 4+x mana for symmetrical damage that seems like it could open the window for other decks to take advantage. Even if they're normally less aggressive, they've got a huge mana advantage on you.

I think you're undervaluing having access to black in a torbran deck. Demonic tutor is a helluva card and having flying and haste and creature removal on torbran is nice. It's not just "adding a color" it's adding one of the best colors and adding some utility

I think it's more different than worse than torbran; the ability to remove blockers is real decent.

Adding black is definitely a big add, but personally I'm just not that into a trade of making my commander much worse in order to add a color. It might work out okay in the final analysis but it seems a lot less fun to me.

I suspect R&T are probably a lot more creature-based than Torbran Solo, given that combat damage is probably the easiest way to take advantage of the damage in an asymmetrical way, so maybe they do have creatures to burn? It seems a lot less focused though.

[onering]

Excellent card. It has a leg up on similar cards because it stops death triggers as well, so it nails TWO archetypes

[DirkGently]

I basically never run targeted stax pieces in my decks. They're excessively proactive imo. So easy to play this t2, turn a player into a spectator, and then have someone else get out of control while you're out of allies thanks to your own card. I guess you can at least suicide attack/block with it in a pinch. But it also means it's weak to a lot of removal.

In theory a great player could predict when this sort of thing becomes necessary and hold off until then, but ime this format is often too chaotic to make that prediction accurately. Especially when multiple people are becoming threatening and this only counters one of them.

And there's also the issue that symmetrical hate pieces push you away from the effects they target, which means you limit yourself without benefit whenever you don't draw/play the hate piece. That's a bigger strike against Back to Basics than this dude, but still.

God I love being contrarian lmao.

Edit: also ofc this can be political suicide if the best way to remove it is by removing you.

[TheGildedGoose]

Back to Basics

Time to finish my Svyelun of Sea and Sky fish list with

[pokken]

I have won so many games with hush effects over the years I thought about retheming ephara to focus on them and combining with Wormfang Manta lol

Breena turning hushb into a 9/10 lifelinker really ruins days.

Of all the stax effects only rule of law is more nearly universal

[toctheyounger]

I basically never run targeted stax pieces in my decks. They're excessively proactive imo. So easy to play this t2, turn a player into a spectator, and then have someone else get out of control while you're out of allies thanks to your own card. I guess you can at least suicide attack/block with it in a pinch. But it also means it's weak to a lot of removal.

In theory a great player could predict when this sort of thing becomes necessary and hold off until then, but ime this format is often too chaotic to make that prediction accurately. Especially when multiple people are becoming threatening and this only counters one of them.

And there's also the issue that symmetrical hate pieces push you away from the effects they target, which means you limit yourself without benefit whenever you don't draw/play the hate piece. That's a bigger strike against Back to Basics than this dude, but still.

God I love being contrarian lmao.

Edit: also ofc this can be political suicide if the best way to remove it is by removing you.

I mean this rationale applies to all stax effects to be fair. This one is a particular piece in that it stops some of the most commonly leveraged mechanics in ETBs and LTBs but yeah it takes you off the same.

What it boils down to is that stax is hard to pilot, hard to brew and hard to work around. The best you can hope for is that it's effective, cheap and you can work around it. This one in particular is for quite a specific deck. Tayam, Luminous Enigma can use it, Derevi, I don't even know that Winota wants it and that's pretty wild.

What you're saying is kind of the essence of what people get wrong building stax and control decks. If you're gonna do it you gotta use a scalpel, not a machete, and you've got to have a way to not only survive your control but thrive in it. If not you're just just making everyone miserable more slowly than usual.

I find it an intriguing archetype to brew and play.

[onering]

I think it's a lot better in something like hate bears than actual stax. I also don't think it should push you off of running the effects yourself either. It's an answer, and one that should stay in your hand until you need to deploy it (because it's clear Brago is about to snowball, for instance). I prefer Hushbringer Gryf for having flash, since that actually lets you cast it reactively against a combo, but Hushbringer hitting dies triggers can be very relevant.

[DirkGently]

I mean this rationale applies to all stax effects to be fair. This one is a particular piece in that it stops some of the most commonly leveraged mechanics in ETBs and LTBs but yeah it takes you off the same.

I wouldn't say it applies to all stax effects, only targeted ones. Something like Winter Orb is going to significantly effect virtually all decks, so if you can build a deck that works around that effect, that can be an effective game plan. Something like hushbringer, on the other hand, requires a much more specific context to be effective, and it's a lot easier for it to backfire and be negative for you, since it potentially forces an opponent into a kill-or-be-killed struggle with you, and can potentially contribute to destabilizing the table to your detriment if you aren't in a good position to take advantage.

[toctheyounger]

I mean this rationale applies to all stax effects to be fair. This one is a particular piece in that it stops some of the most commonly leveraged mechanics in ETBs and LTBs but yeah it takes you off the same.

I wouldn't say it applies to all stax effects, only targeted ones. Something like Winter Orb is going to significantly effect virtually all decks, so if you can build a deck that works around that effect, that can be an effective game plan. Something like hushbringer, on the other hand, requires a much more specific context to be effective, and it's a lot easier for it to backfire and be negative for you, since it potentially forces an opponent into a kill-or-be-killed struggle with you, and can potentially contribute to destabilizing the table to your detriment if you aren't in a good position to take advantage.

Yeah I get what you mean. It's sometimes a bit too blunt of a tool. To me you sandbag this until you come across the specific ETB you want to stop in most cases. Dockside or Oracle or whatever. Having it out means you get dumped on or people sandbag their own stuff until this is gone.

[DirkGently]

Yeah I get what you mean. It's sometimes a bit too blunt of a tool. To me you sandbag this until you come across the specific ETB you want to stop in most cases. Dockside or Oracle or whatever. Having it out means you get dumped on or people sandbag their own stuff until this is gone.

Sure, but how are you gonna know? Say there's an etb deck and not much happening and you decide to play it out, it cripples the etb player and destabilizes the game in favor of someone else who etb guy is powerless to help you defend against (and who probably wants you dead). Or you don't play it out, and etb guy plays dockside into DEN and wins the game next turn. I think the game changes too quickly to make good decisions at sorcery speed a lot of the time. I'd infinitely rather have a counterspell or removal which can block the combo if it comes up, without committing me to a path of destruction.

I do get why you'd prefer the flash version for sure, but even so, I don't like the permanent-based commitment. If someone is such a problem that permanent ongoing muzzling is necessary, I'd rather play Overwhelming Splendor or something, so it works against a wider variety of players rather than hoping that the uber-threat aligns with my narrow hate piece and not with other players.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah I get what you mean. It's sometimes a bit too blunt of a tool. To me you sandbag this until you come across the specific ETB you want to stop in most cases. Dockside or Oracle or whatever. Having it out means you get dumped on or people sandbag their own stuff until this is gone.

Sure, but how are you gonna know? Say there's an etb deck and not much happening and you decide to play it out, it cripples the etb player and destabilizes the game in favor of someone else who etb guy is powerless to help you defend against (and who probably wants you dead). Or you don't play it out, and etb guy plays dockside into DEN and wins the game next turn. I think the game changes too quickly to make good decisions at sorcery speed a lot of the time. I'd infinitely rather have a counterspell or removal which can block the combo if it comes up, without committing me to a path of destruction.

I do get why you'd prefer the flash version for sure, but even so, I don't like the permanent-based commitment. If someone is such a problem that permanent ongoing muzzling is necessary, I'd rather play Overwhelming Splendor or something, so it works against a wider variety of players rather than hoping that the uber-threat aligns with my narrow hate piece and not with other players.

Oh yeah, this isn't the flash version. Oof, that hurts a bit more. Yeah you're not wrong.

Honestly, Dress Down is amazing for this stuff. Instant speed, replaces itself and ganks a player without ruining your own momentum.

In general I think ETB hosers are pretty tough to justify. I think you really only want them if you can substantially break parity on them every game.

[materpillar]

One of my favorite EDH memories ever is where my opponent cast this turn 2 and I immediately untapped and cast Eater of Days. He was not thrilled.

@DirkGently I disagree with some of your assessment on this one. Specifically the downside of housing a blink player more than others. I run Torpor Orb in Lazav, the Multifarious to synergize with silliness like Eater of Days so I've yolo cast it preemptively a bunch.. In my experience whenever I've cast Torpor Orb it almost always speed bumps the entire table a lot because ETBs are just so rampant now a days. You might extra hose one person but it's fairly reliable to assume you're going to be hosing everyone a good bit. There are definitely political repercussions for blanking a decent portion of each of your opponents' deck though.

[pokken]

The odds are in favor if you're running Hushbringer on turn 2, it'll hose the 2 people with the most powerful decks and leave the weakest deck alone. This is a broad generalization but it's been my experience as a whole that it's almost invariably stronger decks that get horked by it.

The hush effects are *really* broadly applicable these days.

[3drinks]

Monday, My 15th, 2023; Backdraft Hellkite

[Dunharrow]

I don't remember ever seeing this card. I think it wold be a good inclusion in some of my decks. Quintorius, Field Historian for sure.

[3drinks]

I don't remember ever seeing this card. I think it wold be a good inclusion in some of my decks. Quintorius, Field Historian for sure.

I don't even think you need that tbh. It's a free Past in Flames|tsr on attack every turn. That's ridiculously strong.

[Dunharrow]

I don't remember ever seeing this card. I think it wold be a good inclusion in some of my decks. Quintorius, Field Historian for sure.

I don't even think you need that tbh. It's a free Past in Flames|tsr on attack every turn. That's ridiculously strong.

Right I don't need the general to be out... but I need enough spells to make it worthwhile. I don't have many spellslinger decks.

[PrimevalCommander]

I have been really impressed with Backdraft Hellkite in my Kalamax, the Stormsire deck. I don't use it to storm, just as some incremental value. While the P/T to Mana Value ratio is mediocre, since I'm not abusing the effect to combo off, it ends up triggering quite often. It has become one of my favorite 5 drops to see in that deck being aggressive, but giving me access to my removal, cantrips, and ramp that I already used. I typically just get 1 card back per turn, which is tame enough to not draw a ton of attention, but when I have Kalamax out, it is often enough to keep me ahead. Free Past in Flames on attack it a good way to look at the amount of value you could get off of this, but I am just as happy to play it as a free Mission Briefing on attack instead. It keeps my cards and damage flowing. Good role player if you don't mind having some creatures in your spell deck.

[Mookie]

Backdraft Hellkite is cool, but a little clunky - decks that are interested in getting a free Past in Flames every turn are generally spellslinger decks, and may prefer Recoup / Mizzix's Mastery / Mystic Retrieval as their recursion opposed to a five mana creature that has to attack. It seems good if you expect to regularly get value from it though - flashing back your spells for value is nice, and it doesn't take any additional mana investment. Hmmmm.... It reminds me a bit of the recent discussion around Sword of Once and Future, which I'm pretty low on... but in this case, I'm more enthusiastic about the dragon due to it not needing an additional creature to do anything.

...I'm a bit tempted to test it out in my Mizzix deck now, since I'm currently a bit light on recursion outside oneshot mass recursion (which I usually only do to close out the game). Turning all the random cantrips in my graveyard into extra value seems pretty nifty.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I think this card is super powerful, but it's one of those things that really needed haste to make the extra jump to staple status. Cool card though, lots of value to be had.

[Mookie]

I think this card is super powerful, but it's one of those things that really needed haste to make the extra jump to staple status. Cool card though, lots of value to be had.

I was tempted to add 'needs haste' to my comment, but I don't think haste actually adds much here. It takes five mana to initially play Backdraft Hellkite, which means you won't have much mana for casting any followup spells. I think if you want this effect immediately, you'll be looking at Wildfire Devils or Goblin Dark-Dwellers, which cheat on mana cost. I suppose that's less of a concern in the lategame though.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I think this card is super powerful, but it's one of those things that really needed haste to make the extra jump to staple status. Cool card though, lots of value to be had.

I was tempted to add 'needs haste' to my comment, but I don't think haste actually adds much here. It takes five mana to initially play Backdraft Hellkite, which means you won't have much mana for casting any followup spells. I think if you want this effect immediately, you'll be looking at Wildfire Devils or Goblin Dark-Dwellers, which cheat on mana cost. I suppose that's less of a concern in the lategame though.

To be fair, I think you could tack on haste to about any creature and make it 50% better by doing so. I just think Backdraft especially wants it because it's a five mana bomb, it should refund CA or generate value as quick as possible to be worth it. Alternatively, triggering on ETB and attack would work too. Even if you may not have the mana to use it t5, 4 damage and the option (provided you ramped) would be really nice imo.

As it is, I think Yawgwin, Past In Flames, and Mizzix's Mastery are just so far above it unless you have dragon synergies. There's only so many slots for mass recursion after all.

[onering]

It's really not a heavy lift to give this haste. Your obviously already leveraging your graveyard, so you might as well have Anger in the deck giving everything haste, while lightning greaves and swiftfoot boots are still staples. I feel like the bigger problem is that haste isn't going to help you much unless you are casting this with extra mana available. You're spending five on this, so you're going to be fairly limited in what you can flashback and how many things you can. I'd be more worried about protecting it regardless of whether you can get it haste or not.

That's a big part of what makes me like the card. It lets you do some shenanigans, but you have to work for them a bit. You aren't going off out of nowhere with it unless you put the work in to set up haste and enough extra mana to leverage it. Otherwise, you're telegraphing your intent, and your opponents have plenty of opportunity to respond. Whether they do is dependent on how threatening your yard (and what they can surmise of your gameplan) looks.

[Igzex]

Interesting how many spellslinger dragons we've gotten...

[3drinks]

Tuesday, May 16th, 2023; Xanthic Statue

I remember high school, playing this with meekstone|4ed. Those were the days...