So which cards would you cut from the maindeck to add which cards from the Maybeboard?
Changelog:
-1 Serra Avatar, +1 Together Forever
-1 Alhammarret's Archive , +1 Enlightened Tutor
MeowZeDung wrote: ↑4 years agoI'd run one of them over Drake Haven or Ophidian Eye which are blue and shouldn't be in your Heliod deck
Lol, these are Griffin Aerie and Light of Promise . I build my decks on Archidekt and it doesn't have these cards working yet so I took these two as placeholder cards so the CMC and type stats would still line up. I just forgot to change them after porting over the decklist.DirkGently wrote: ↑4 years agoI do agree that you should probably cut ophidian eye and drake haven, though, lol. Were those typos?
MeowZeDung wrote: ↑4 years agoI like Knight of the White Orchid, Solemn Simulacrum, and/or Kor Cartographer for ramp in white creature decks, and they play nice with Karmic Guide/Reveillark/a sac outlet.
I feel the same as @DirkGently on this, though testing will need to prove what works.DirkGently wrote: ↑4 years agoI mostly wanted to chime in to say that I disagree with MeowZeDung about ramp for this deck. Heliod costs 3 and he probably wants to be your turn 3 play almost every game. That makes knight of the white orchid a pretty awkward play because you can't play it on 2 unless someone in front of you in turn order played Rampant Growth or similar. Overall the deck has a fairly low curve, or should, since you're counting on combat as your wincon, so ramping from 4-6 just isn't that important.
While that is true, I included it because I have a few cards that trigger of getting 3, 4, or 5 life in a single turn. This will help me get there more easily and is also the only reason I run Shattered Angel. The fact it helps out with card draw doesn't hurt either. That said, I don't have one yet so I can easily choose not to run it... yet?DirkGently wrote: ↑4 years agoAs far as positive suggestions, I'd cut down on the higher end stuff that doesn't do enough. Alhammarret's Archive is a prime example. Heliod triggers on any lifegain, gaining extra life doesn't make him (or most of your other synergies) better.
I'm torn on the Avatar: I know it's clunky but since Heliod can give it lifelink, doubling my life total was never easier. And since I am running 3 wincons depending on getting a high life total the avatar is the prime way to get there I think. Or do you think this deck would be able to get to 50+ without much trouble even when getting picked on? I will take advice as it comes, I will remove it for Together Forever,DirkGently wrote: ↑4 years agoSerra Avatar is likewise a bit expensive clunker that you can't easily get through. Sure, it kill someone if it hits, but good luck hitting anyone with a creature that has no evasion or protection. I'd push towards lower-end stuff that will give you more efficient value and synergize better, like Serra Ascendant and Together Forever.
First off thank you for taking the time for such an extensive post! The kind of analysis the kind of thing I used to do but somehow lost. I hope I get it back, but for now I'll rely on you and the other forum experts. I've taken most of your advice to heart, as you can see in the updated list.darrenhabib wrote: ↑4 years agoExcellent start...
...So if you can do the surprise factor of flashing it in just before your turn you might have more success there.
As I mentioned, you are not really setup majorly for a proactive plan with your recursion. There are no ways to put cards in your graveyard from your library and you only have one discard outlet in Mindless Automaton and you don't have a creature sacrifice outlet either.Ertai Planeswalker wrote: ↑4 years agoI feel i should have some more recursion in order to be able to really into it as a strategy but I do not know with what cards let alone what to cut. Not to be too greedy, but do you have any thoughts on that perhaps?
Alongside Battlepriest, Abzan Falconer seems like a great idea to turn all those giant creatures evasive. Ainok Bond-Kin is probably not good enough, and the rest are either not on color or don't give out abilities.OCPunisher wrote: ↑4 years agoMy two cents:
Crystalline Crawler seems kinda weak. Four mana for a card that might give you extra mana when you gettin life seems suspect.
Abzan Battle Priest has done some nice work for me, enough that other outlast creatures from Khans have gotten on the radar.
I did not mean recursion as an alternative / backup strategy but just as a way to get stuff back from the graveyard. Having said that:darrenhabib wrote: ↑4 years agoAs I mentioned, you are not really setup majorly for a proactive plan with your recursion... ...One last thing, just about actually playing the deck, make sure that when you distribute the +1/+1 counters that you specifically leave at least one token without counters so that you can target with Skullclamp to get the draw straight away.Ertai Planeswalker wrote: ↑4 years agoI feel i should have some more recursion in order to be able to really into it as a strategy but I do not know with what cards let alone what to cut. Not to be too greedy, but do you have any thoughts on that perhaps?
I had not looked at it this way and this is also a way to go. By now, lifegain is a theme that goes so deep that no (lack of acces to a) single card will (dis)/enable the deck's gameplan. If so, trying to fit in that Samurai of the Pale Curtain that was mentioned earlier would also be a good option. I don't recur → No one recurspokken wrote: ↑4 years agoA potential alternative to recursion is playing Rest in Peace. It's *stupidly powerful* in commander because everyone else wants to do recursion too. Your gameplan is so high on synergy and Heliod is so easy to synergize with I'd just let people kill your stuff and focus on going tall on enough guys at a time to be a threat without overcommitting. It's usually pretty easy with Heliod to just make something big, give it lifelink and start bashing away if you fear a sweeper. Pressure the person with the probable sweeper.
I love equipment, but personally I don't love it so much for Heliod. I would be wary of running too many equipment as it isn't exactly what he wants to be doing as it takes away from the lifegain theme. However, if you can afford them, any sword of X and Y are obviously great. Especially Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of Truth and Justice. Lower budget options such as you mentioned such as Mask of Memory and Sword of the Animist are fantastic equipment here. I would also suggest Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale and Shadowspear, the latter of which I will get to shortly. I am not too high on Skullclamp for Heliod. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the best equipments in Magic, but we don't have the best ways to abuse it. All of our one toughness creatures are too valuable to be sacrificing. My experience with Umezawa's Jitte is that it can be hit or miss. It can control the board like nobody's business, but can also do nothing if we aren't able to get enough combat triggers. I do like how we can turn extra charge counters into lifegain.OCPunisher wrote: ↑3 years agoHey all,
Wanted to get some more discussion going on a couple of areas in this deck:
- Equipment: it was briefly mentioned above, but required a large budget, and then nothing became of it. I've been running a few lower-budget options in my own list: Mask of Memory is cheaper to cast and to equip than Sword of Fire and Ice, sees more cards when it triggers, and doesn't attract quite as much attention. Sword of the Animist has also done wonders for ramping when it survives. Finally, Skullclamp is an easy way to turn small creatures into extra cards, assuming they haven't all been pumped up by Heliod. Umezawa's Jitte was the next card on my list...has anyone tried it?
- Another card that is universally good, but also seems to check a lot of boxes that this deck wants is Ugin, the Ineffable. It's a bit expensive here, but it's still very flexible in a color that doesn't have a lot of versatility.
- Finally, a card that has been falling down my ranks and is on the verge of being cut from my list is Oketra's Monument. While it does provide extra bodies for Heliod to grow, it only reduces the cost of white creature spells, and most of those spells in this deck don't have any colorless cost to reduce.
You make a great point about Skullclamp here. I threw it in because it says "draw 2" and white is historically starved for this type of effect, but in hindsight, it's probably not great here.AstralMTG wrote: ↑3 years agoI love equipment, but personally I don't love it so much for Heliod. I would be wary of running too many equipment as it isn't exactly what he wants to be doing as it takes away from the lifegain theme. However, if you can afford them, any sword of X and Y are obviously great. Especially Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of Truth and Justice. Lower budget options such as you mentioned such as Mask of Memory and Sword of the Animist are fantastic equipment here. I would also suggest Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale and Shadowspear, the latter of which I will get to shortly. I am not too high on Skullclamp for Heliod. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the best equipments in Magic, but we don't have the best ways to abuse it. All of our one toughness creatures are too valuable to be sacrificing. My experience with Umezawa's Jitte is that it can be hit or miss. It can control the board like nobody's business, but can also do nothing if we aren't able to get enough combat triggers. I do like how we can turn extra charge counters into lifegain.
I only run two equipment: Sword of the Animist and Shadowspear. Sword of the Animist is amazing in just about any non-green aggro deck. I don't think I need to elaborate on it. I have Shadowspear in the deck for a couple reasons: 1) It gives me the option to make Heliod voltron by giving it lifelink and most importantly trample. 2) It grants me the ability to more easily dispose of hexproof and/or indestructible threats. When I have drawn it, it has been good. But, I would still define it as 'testing'. I have been considering testing Mask of Memory, but I haven't had problems with card advantage yet. The problem is my list is really tight and it's hard to make cuts.