[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - North Star
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This card is extraordinary for me in Zedruu. It's a howling mine that scales, it scales at instant speed, it is an upkeep trigger if you run Paradox Haze, defender makes it more donateable, it also makes it stop combat with Mirrorweave, it's an extra golem for Precursor Golem, and it's an infinite mana sink that wins the game.
It is the most versatile and highest ceiling of this style effect.
It is the most versatile and highest ceiling of this style effect.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
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- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria
I used to see this in group hug and these days I'd still put it in a deck with the 2/8 soldiers.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
Kaalia HQ
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/1-smile-fb.png)
Kaalia HQ
Don't do my boy like that! He got plenty to offer in my The Council of Four build.
Sure, Dictate of Kruphix is more flexible, Howling Mine and Kami of the Crescent Moon take less mana, Faerie Mastermind and Welcoming Vampire come with better bodies and synergy, but this guy is still solid. Once in a while i even get to dump my mana eot before my turn and draw even moar cards!
Come to think of it, it's cards like that i enjoy a lot, especially for the sake of not being run everywhere.
I remember my first Sydri deck running this with Retribution of the Ancients to break parity (remove counters to kill stuff - add back with the ability or Power Conduit, proliferate, repeat as necessary).
I miss the fun Rube Goldberg decks. . . and games that would allow you to assemble and enjoy the madness.
V/R
Treamayne
Treamayne
I ran this in Phelddagrif as a "group hug" card but the thing is I run it with cards like Rule of Law and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir because the entire gameplan was to make everyone draw their entire deck but make it difficult for them to do anything with all the cards they drew. Other than that you gotta be careful with group draw because cards like that draw instant hate in your direction and you're giving them cards to hate you with.
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
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Tuesday, April 18th, 2023; Shriekmaw|tsr
Still the best at the "removal on a body" role? Two mv is a pretty hard rate to beat, and you never truly cared about this body sticking around to compare to the locked four cost of chupacabra. To say it's always better than the 'maw I'd say is incorrect.
Still the best at the "removal on a body" role? Two mv is a pretty hard rate to beat, and you never truly cared about this body sticking around to compare to the locked four cost of chupacabra. To say it's always better than the 'maw I'd say is incorrect.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
Kaalia HQ
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/1-smile-fb.png)
Kaalia HQ
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
- Posts: 5001
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- Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria
Me every time I look at Golden Guardian // Gold-Forge Garrison and try to fit it everywhere. (such as the new Brimaz, Blight of OreskosToshi wrote: ↑1 year agoDon't do my boy like that! He got plenty to offer in my The Council of Four build.
Sure, Dictate of Kruphix is more flexible, Howling Mine and Kami of the Crescent Moon take less mana, Faerie Mastermind and Welcoming Vampire come with better bodies and synergy, but this guy is still solid. Once in a while i even get to dump my mana eot before my turn and draw even moar cards!
Come to think of it, it's cards like that i enjoy a lot, especially for the sake of not being run everywhere.
![Fuming Mad :fuming:](./images/smilies/14-fuming-fb.png)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
Kaalia HQ
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/1-smile-fb.png)
Kaalia HQ
Nonartifact, nonblack removal at sorcery speed is a pretty big limitation, but Shriekmaw is still a cool card. It does compete with Ravenous Chupacabra and black's other, less conditional spot removal options. I don't hate it in decks like Horde of Notions or Chainer, Nightmare Adept that can easily recur it, but I would be hesitant to run it elsewhere.
One thing I'll call out is that Shriemaw is particularly bad at killing commanders, since so many are multicolor. Of the top 10 most played, it only kills two of them (Thrasios, Triton Hero and Kenrith, the Returned King), while missing stuff like Atraxa, Praetors' Voice and Lathril, Blade of the Elves. It may be worth consideration in certain metas, but I feel like it's too much of a restriction to be worth consideration without a specific plan for it.
One thing I'll call out is that Shriemaw is particularly bad at killing commanders, since so many are multicolor. Of the top 10 most played, it only kills two of them (Thrasios, Triton Hero and Kenrith, the Returned King), while missing stuff like Atraxa, Praetors' Voice and Lathril, Blade of the Elves. It may be worth consideration in certain metas, but I feel like it's too much of a restriction to be worth consideration without a specific plan for it.
It still serves a purpose on occasion. It's actually relevant to hard cast it from time to time, but the main draw is that it's a 2 mana kill spell that can be rezzed for another go. It's particularly nice in decks that care about creatures dying, since you get a death trigger on top of your kill spell, and if you can blink it reliably (basically 2 mana plus the blink cost to kill two things and get a 3/2 fear, a nice rate). It's at its nastiest with Mimic Vat though, a classic synergy that lets you kill something and attack with an evasive critter every turn. It's benefit there is, again, that evoking it makes it die, so you can cheaply and easily get it under the vat with no extra help, and it can thus kill 2 things and attack for three immediately for 5 mana (the evoke cost and vat activation).
This card is really a symbol of an older era of EDH when grinding value ruled the day, as it was on its own decent value (a kill spell plus an evasive attacker) while being flexible, and it's potential value went way up when paired with some staples. While that style of play has gone from ubiquitous to fringe, the Maw still excels in decks that lean into that style.
This card is really a symbol of an older era of EDH when grinding value ruled the day, as it was on its own decent value (a kill spell plus an evasive attacker) while being flexible, and it's potential value went way up when paired with some staples. While that style of play has gone from ubiquitous to fringe, the Maw still excels in decks that lean into that style.
- PrimevalCommander
- Posts: 948
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I still like shriekmaw when creatures dying or permanents sacrificing is part of the plan. I actually still play it quite a bit despite the limitation on the removal for these reasons. For 2 mana, kill a creature, creature ETB trigger, creature death trigger, sacrifice trigger, can create a lot of synergy. I almost consider it 1/2 removal and 1/2 synergy piece, so I don't bank on the removal and just enjoy the value it can bring for the low cost even if I don't hit every relevant target on the battlefield.
Decklists
God-Eternal Oketra
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Karador, Ghost Chieftan
Kalamax, the Stormsire
Rocco WILD PAIR
Sefris of the Hidden Ways *Budget*(Page 4)
Zurzoth, Chaos RiderKalamax, the Stormsire
Rocco WILD PAIR
Sefris of the Hidden Ways *Budget*(Page 4)
God-Eternal Oketra
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Sir, you need a Ich-Tekik, Salvage Splicer or Grothama, All-Devouring deck!3drinks wrote: ↑1 year agoMe every time I look at Golden Guardian // Gold-Forge Garrison and try to fit it everywhere.
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Hawk Slayer of Threads
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- Location: Salt Lake City, UT
A pet favorite of mine - love my Lorwyn foil. I play this everywhere, almost as much as Mulldrifter. As noted, "non-artifact, non-creature" is a major limitation and if you don't care about creature count this is more or less strictly worse than the suite of good black removal (Infernal Grasp has no targeting limitations and is instant; Go for the Throat and Heartless Act have significantly easier targeting restrictions and are instant, Feed the Swarm is a sorcery but has no targeting restrictions and can nail enchantments, etc.).
But all my decks, and most black decks, do care about creatures. This guy takes well to blinking, sacrifices itself for aristocrat nonsense or to fill a 'yard, is great value if recurred, and isn't even a terrible evasive body to carry counters or equipment himself. I think I prefer him even to Chups; the flexibility to cast at is nice and the body is slightly better. Plus the self-sacrifice is often a perk in decks like The Gitrog Monster or Nethroi, Apex of Death.
But all my decks, and most black decks, do care about creatures. This guy takes well to blinking, sacrifices itself for aristocrat nonsense or to fill a 'yard, is great value if recurred, and isn't even a terrible evasive body to carry counters or equipment himself. I think I prefer him even to Chups; the flexibility to cast at is nice and the body is slightly better. Plus the self-sacrifice is often a perk in decks like The Gitrog Monster or Nethroi, Apex of Death.
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander: Current(ish) Arsenal
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
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Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
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Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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I'm pretty off it. Sorcery speed sucks, color restrictions suck. It had less competition in 2009 but these days there are many many better options. If your deck gets value from creatures dying, that's neat, but like all value-added answers it incentivises poor play since it locks that value behind burning your answers.
Not to say there aren't niche decks that want to play it but it's bad as removal unless you generate massive value from the body aspect.
Not to say there aren't niche decks that want to play it but it's bad as removal unless you generate massive value from the body aspect.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
- Posts: 5001
- Joined: 5 years ago
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- Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
Kaalia HQ
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/1-smile-fb.png)
Kaalia HQ
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
- Posts: 5001
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I do like the big wurm............just a shame no one lets me table it cause it's scary I guess.Toshi wrote: ↑1 year agoSir, you need a Ich-Tekik, Salvage Splicer or Grothama, All-Devouring deck!3drinks wrote: ↑1 year agoMe every time I look at Golden Guardian // Gold-Forge Garrison and try to fit it everywhere.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
Kaalia HQ
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/1-smile-fb.png)
Kaalia HQ
Combo this combo that.
Ironically, the "only to cast creature spells" clause, which helps reign in the power of these combos also help make sure it'll never be good for anything except combo.
Birthing Pod has a similar flavor of "evolution", and is also rife with combos, but it actually has some more "fair" applications.
Ironically, the "only to cast creature spells" clause, which helps reign in the power of these combos also help make sure it'll never be good for anything except combo.
Birthing Pod has a similar flavor of "evolution", and is also rife with combos, but it actually has some more "fair" applications.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.
Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
Other: Karrthus, Eris, Emiel, The Blessed, Ruhan, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada
Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!
Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
Other: Karrthus, Eris, Emiel, The Blessed, Ruhan, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada
Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!
Activate this ability only once each turn.
I fixed it.
I fixed it.
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folding_music glitter pen on my mana crypt
- Posts: 2434
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: they / them
i think you were meant to use this with, like, Skyshroud Cutter and Vine Dryad to get ahead on mana? lol it's so ridiculous though even before you consider casting from the command zone
It's theoretically possible to run Food Chain fairly, but its price tag, exile clause, and 'creatures only' limitation makes it a bit difficult to justify running it over Ashnod's Altar. If I see it, I generally assume combo. I guess you could maybe do something weird with cost-reduced creatures like Tasigur, the Golden Fang to ramp into something expensive, but Neoform / Eldritch Evolution generally does a better job.
Anyway, combos with Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Squee, the Immortal, or some other cards to generate infinite mana, after which you just need Walking Ballista or another mana sink.
Anyway, combos with Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Squee, the Immortal, or some other cards to generate infinite mana, after which you just need Walking Ballista or another mana sink.
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
- Posts: 4746
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
The only not-technically-combo use I've seen it used for is with Maelstrom Wanderer. You can cast him a decent number of times, but it's not infinite.
I dislike food chain, but it's a card that mostly stays in cEDH land, so I can't get too upset. Unlike something like DEN that is constantly poking its miserable head into casual land.
I dislike food chain, but it's a card that mostly stays in cEDH land, so I can't get too upset. Unlike something like DEN that is constantly poking its miserable head into casual land.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
- toctheyounger
- Posts: 4011
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
People still run Navigator???? Jeez. I'd think Displacer Kitten makes it virtually entirely redundant except in like corner cases. There's not even a tangible price difference.DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoUnlike something like DEN that is constantly poking its miserable head into casual land.
Anyway, yeah Food Chain is laborious and combo-centric. It shouldn't be in casual games. As part of a combo line, it's convoluted and complex with many areas for either opponents to disrupt or yourself to correct course, the latter of which is what keeps it around. It's far from the most efficient combo piece in cedh land, it's slow, it's convoluted and has a lot of surface area for opponents to interact with, but in the words of the Play To Win team, Food Chain wins games. Said in jest but sometimes true.
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
- Posts: 4746
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
How does kitten replace DEN? Sure it's more efficient, but it requires more from your deck and doesn't go infinite nearly as easily.toctheyounger wrote: ↑1 year agoPeople still run Navigator???? Jeez. I'd think Displacer Kitten makes it virtually entirely redundant except in like corner cases. There's not even a tangible price difference.
Practically every time I see someone play DEN these days it's alongside Peregrine Drake.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Anecdotally, I'm running Deadeye Navigator as a combo piece in my Tatyova, Benthic Druid 'I hate Simic goodstuff and so will you' pile.... largely because I happen to own a copy, while I don't own a Displacer Kitten. It's in the slightly awkward spot of being too cutthroat for casual, but also not efficient enough for competitive, similar to stuff like Craterhoof Behemoth and Insurrection, so there aren't many other decks I would really want it in.
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
- Posts: 4746
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
Craterhoof is boring and DEN is cancer but insurrection is classic casual fun. If you let the board state get so built up that insurrection wins the game that's your own fault. Either you should have been wiping or you should have been swinging.Mookie wrote: ↑1 year agoIt's in the slightly awkward spot of being too cutthroat for casual, but also not efficient enough for competitive, similar to stuff like Craterhoof Behemoth and Insurrection, so there aren't many other decks I would really want it in.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
- toctheyounger
- Posts: 4011
- Joined: 5 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Fair I guess. DEN just seems wildly overcosted in today's commander scene. Unless you're cheating it's cost with reanimation or discount or what have you, you're waiting a long ass time to get that value or combo going. I get why it's still run, it's just a bit of a remnant of a bygone era to me. I get why it's gross though, in casual there's very little that can interact with it meaningfully, and in competitive it just isn't a good rate or efficient enough. In the only home it has its a constant thorn in the side.DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoHow does kitten replace DEN? Sure it's more efficient, but it requires more from your deck and doesn't go infinite nearly as easily.