Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[illakunsaa]

The combo of archivist plus winds is gonna close games hard. I like that.

I doubt that adding draw 3 to winds is gonna close games if it didn't already end games.

[Dragoon]

Anyways man it has gotten a LOT harder to choose 100 cards for my Ur-Dragon and we're still not even done yet...

Just do it like I do: 75 cards that act as the "shell" and then 25 random dragons No more cuts, no more headaches (well at least for the dragon selection).

[RedCheese]

Oghma's Archivist best card of the set so far. Sigh this card will be very expensive because is very legacy playable

[NZB2323]

The combo of archivist plus winds is gonna close games hard. I like that.

I doubt that adding draw 3 to winds is gonna close games if it didn't already end games.

Would you get to draw equal to the number of opponents you have or draw equal to the number of creatures your opponents have? Because the way it's worded Winds says they get to search for each creature.

[DirkGently]

If only Kolressa had Choose a Background...

I think it was a pretty sensible move to only have mono-colored backgrounds and background-able commanders. Partners are strong inherently by giving you a 9-card hand with multiple recurring threats, also giving them a lot of color access can really put them over the top.

UG does make her a lot more difficult to run as a commander, though.

[Wallycaine]

The combo of archivist plus winds is gonna close games hard. I like that.

I doubt that adding draw 3 to winds is gonna close games if it didn't already end games.

Would you get to draw equal to the number of opponents you have or draw equal to the number of creatures your opponents have? Because the way it's worded Winds says they get to search for each creature.

While this is not definitive when we don't have an exact english translation of Oghma's Archivist, it will likely have the same wording as Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, and thus have the same ruling: You're only considered to search the library once, even if you're searching it for multiple single cards before shuffling (Ref, with Comperhensive citation

So you can draw once per opponent, but not once per creature.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I really like the The Council of Four. Seems like a perfect UW control commander, down to the statline.

[DirkGently]

I was going to say that it's mostly a more-expensive Smuggler's Share, but it triggers when YOU draw a second card, weirdly enough. So if you draw an extra card on your turn, you automatically get another one.

The knight thing could be good. It'll trigger a lot more often than the other half of smuggler's share, even the payoff is pretty meh for most decks.

[RxPhantom]

I much prefer Oghma's Archivist to be WW, really. A small change, but would at least be "slightly" discouraging for 3+ color decks to run it.

Yeah, but not really. Fixing is so good and plentiful these days that it would hardly count as an impediment..

[pokken]

yeah draw 3 is a lot worse. That's a lame interpretation.

[pokken]

I much prefer Oghma's Archivist to be WW, really. A small change, but would at least be "slightly" discouraging for 3+ color decks to run it.

Yeah, but not really. Fixing is so good and plentiful these days that it would hardly count as an impediment..

Respectful massive disagreement here. If dockside was rr it would see significantly less play. Making rr or ww on early turns is a major
Commitment.

[Igzex]

As someone who plays 5 color dragons with the tried and true fetches and shocks package I can attest to how much I still hate how they tend to have 2 of the same color in their cost. Better make beatsticks that rarely produce immediate value that isn't make people waste desparks on them as inconvenient to cast as possible because they need to be balanced more than Smothering Tithe or Dockside Extortionist clearly.

UG does make her a lot more difficult to run as a commander, though.

That's the thing. That you can't splash red makes her so awkward as a commander probably even in this set's draft format which makes her design so strange to me.

[DirkGently]

That's the thing. That you can't splash red makes her so awkward as a commander probably even in this set's draft format which makes her design so strange to me.

Sure, I'm just saying they'd have to make it RG CI rather than give it background, since all the background legends are mono. I guess if they made it mono-green or mono-blue.

But I'd wait until the full set is spoiled - there's also the blue background dragon that pays off dragons, so I suspect there will be a relatively high number of blue dragons in the set once all is said and done. Uncommon legends tend to be the ones with the best supported archetypes, at least in CMR so it'd be weird to leave 2 of them adrift.

[5colorsrainbow]

But I'd wait until the full set is spoiled - there's also the blue background dragon that pays off dragons, so I suspect there will be a relatively high number of blue dragons in the set once all is said and done. Uncommon legends tend to be the ones with the best supported archetypes, at least in CMR so it'd be weird to leave 2 of them adrift.

Yeah the URG draft theme is dragon tribal with each color pair doing a slightly different strategy, I'd be shocked if there wasn't more green/blue dragons particularly since they can use dragonborn for small and/or non-flying dragons.

[folding_music]

Erinis is going to be SO GOOD! most of the legendaries I like from AFR and CLB are understatted or they JUST get an ability and no interesting keywords, but Erinis just does everything, gets better the more unfair land you have access to and sates my implicit need to cast every variant of Grapple with the Past and play all the lands that sac another land, especially Glacial Chasm and I like her more than the Gitrog Monster or Lord Windgrace. just kinda worried that there'll be 6000 decks with her on edhrec immediately giggle

[illakunsaa]

Displacer Kitten is just busted. Just cast a cantrip → untap a mana rock or dig with war narset and cast the spell you found and activate narset again. It's almost like a paradox engine.

[DirkGently]

Displacer Kitten is just busted. Just cast a cantrip → untap a mana rock or dig with war narset and cast the spell you found and activate narset again. It's almost like a paradox engine.

Woah woah, let's not go too crazy here. Paradox engine untapping ALL your nonland permanents is a completely different thing than kitten untapping just one. Going infinite is going to be difficult - you'd need a Nyx Lotus with a lot of devotion to really get going. Even something like Empowered Autogenerator won't work since it gets reset, not simply untapped. Probably the stupid Palinchron cycle is the easiest way to go infinite...as if they needed another way.

Definitely a strong card, though.

[Serenade]

Need all the baby critter rares NOW.

[kirkusjones]

Need all the baby critter rares NOW.

Owl Bear Cub just got spoiled…looks like we may have our selves a cycle.

[Mookie]

• Owlbear Cub is adorable and hilarious. I don't know if it's actually good - 8 lands means it often won't be online until later in the game - but cheating out giant nonsense is always fun.
• Displacer Kitten is also amusing. I don't hate the idea of stapling a Cloudshift onto all my noncreature spells, and flickering mana rocks for bonus tempo is also nice. Lots of flexibility here, and I'll probably test it in Brago. I don't think the card is broken though. 'Combos with Palinchron / Dockside Extortionist' is a pretty low bar.
• Ascend From Avernus is a delight. I'm a sucker for mass reanimation spells, and while this isn't quite as efficient as Storm of Souls, I certainly won't complain about some redundancy.
• Call of the Void is interesting from a game theory perspective, and should be fun to play with. Not clear if it's actually good - the fact that you always lose at least one creature means it will never be totally asymmetric (barring indestructible/regeneration shenanigans), but if you can trade a token for your opponents' best things, that could be pretty good. Hmmmm... I think I favor Make an Example though - 'each opponent loses their best thing' > 'each player (including you) loses their best thing and their worst thing', which is the expected value.
• (edit) Legion Loyalty is complete and utter nonsense. Extremely expensive, but tripling your damage (assuming three opponents) + getting a ton of ETB / LTB triggers is certainly a thing. One of the splashiest white finishers I can think of.

[illakunsaa]

Displacer Kitten is just busted. Just cast a cantrip → untap a mana rock or dig with war narset and cast the spell you found and activate narset again. It's almost like a paradox engine.

Woah woah, let's not go too crazy here. Paradox engine untapping ALL your nonland permanents is a completely different thing than kitten untapping just one. Going infinite is going to be difficult - you'd need a Nyx Lotus with a lot of devotion to really get going. Even something like Empowered Autogenerator won't work since it gets reset, not simply untapped. Probably the stupid Palinchron cycle is the easiest way to go infinite...as if they needed another way.

Definitely a strong card, though.

I can see the cat creating very long value storm turns. Something like Gilded Lotus provides a lot of mana to play around with. The cat can also protect itself. I have a nonstorm Kykar list and getting to untap with Teferi, Temporal Archmage usually gives a virtual extra turn. Cat does that with every cast.

[darrenhabib]

Displacer Kitten and Coveted Jewel

[DirkGently]

Displacer Kitten and Coveted Jewel

Thanks I hate it.

[Hawk]

Well, Nine-Fingers Keene is officially spoiled now instead of leaked. I'm curious, and tempted, to see if her gimmick is actually doable in EDH. Nine gates is a tall order when pre-CL:BfBG there are only four available in Sultai (Simic Guildgate, Dimir Guildgate, Golgari Guildgate, and Gateway Plaza). Baldur's Gate and Gond Gate are gates and also strong payoffs but there needs to be at least 3 more and realistically a ton more gates. We know this set has nine gates, and the leaks seem to indicate that two of them will be off-limits for Keene (since it looks like we'll have a cycle of common/uncommon gates that work a bit like the Thriving Bluff lands from JumpStart). If all the non-R and W gates are available to Keene that's only 11 gates which seems pretty dicey.

What makes it seem non-impossible is that Vesuva and Thespian's Stage exist to stretch out your gate count, and there's a lot of gate tutors - Circuitous Route and Maze's End get them directly on the battlefield while District Guide, Gatecreeper Vine, and Open the Gates get them to hand.

[Mookie]

Welp, Nine-Fingers Keene answers my recent question re: 'is there enough gate support to justify running a 3C gate deck'. Between Gond Gate, Baldur's Gate, and support cards like Circuitous Route and Open the Gates, I could definitely see decks running a gate-based ramp strategy. Not quite as self-contained as Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers, but the fact that there are so many gate tutors does seem like it could make it fairly consistent. Hmmm...

....meanwhile, Pact Weapon seems like it can fuel some shenanigans.