Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[pokken]

Shield counters seem legitimately a cool mechanic for bant. I like Falco Spara, Pactweaver quite a bit. topdeck manipulation is my jam though :p

[folding_music]

trying to imagine putting Venser or something back in my hand with Getaway Car? Crystal Shard's better for my wizardy etb recursion deck but it can't attack for four a turn. maybe attacking for four a turn is a huge "who cares?" at higher power levels anyway

set seems nicely imaginative, but can't believe there's already a new Vivian

[NZB2323]

Is this better than Swan Song ?

I don't know. 2 treasures is better than a 2/2 bird. The new card can counter artifacts and planeswalkers, but can't counter enchantment creatures. My guess is these cards don't compete with each other. Decks that want to run one of them will run both.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

Shield counter! Here's our new regenerate!

I predict it will become evergreen and become our proper replacement for regenerate.

[kirkusjones]

Very excited for the new Jund legends. I can finally ditch Korvold as the head of my fight club pile for either the Toolbox or Ziatora.

[TheGildedGoose]

An Offer You Can't Refuse is dope, but I don't think it strictly outclasses Swan Song. Two treasures is significantly more dangerous than flying bear, especially in the early game. Combo will prefer Offer but play both, but I'm not sure Offer makes the cut in control.

[Mookie]

Wheee, new mechanics.

• Connive is a good mechanic that will probably play well, but it actually slightly annoys me. We have 'connive X' on Raffine, Scheming Seer, but it looks like it will usually just be 'connive' and not 'connive 1'. Additionally, the +1/+1 counter is conditional - how often are people going to actually count it properly? With explore, you always got a reward - either a +1/+1 counter or drawing a land - but with connive, it's not as consistent. The fact that the ability is tied to a creature is also sort of weird - some creatures connive themself, while other cards connive a target creature. I feel like it would be more intuitive if the player connived, and then put a counter on one of their creatures, but then the looting might fizzle if the creature dies? Hmmmm.....
  Anyway, more broadly, I think the ability to incidentally turn random small creatures into actual threats by conniving repeatedly is pretty nice - it lets more controlling decks actually close out the game if, somehow, all the card selection didn't already let them find a win condition.
• Casualty is fantastic - like jump-start, it lets you cash in a resource you no longer need for some extra value... but it isn't free, so you have some actual choices to make. I am a little sad though - my Kess deck is pretty creature-light, so I can't really make use of it. On the other hand, it encourages more creature-based Grixis strategies, which is nice - I usually see Grixis being pretty controlling. I'll definitely keep an eye out for individual cards to go in my more creature-based decks.
• Blitz is sweet. Sort of like Evoke mixed with Unearth - you get to use a creature once, after which it dies... and you draw a card too, so it's also mixed with cycling? I suspect that trigger will be missed somewhat often, but at least it's tied to the sacrifice ability, so you'll usually catch it. Obviously dependent on having creatures worth blitzing, but if I can staple some card draw onto my sac fodder, I certainly won't complain.
• Alliance is probably the blandest of the mechanics, but it also just works well in creature-based decks, which I hear are popular.
• Shield counters are a solid replacement to regeneration, and they also play more intuitively than regeneration shields. Having played with divine shield and similar mechanics in other games, I'll note that these mechanics generally play excellently - they're an inherent 2-for-1 (because your opponent needs to spend two cards to kill it, usually), but they're also much easier to deal with than stuff like hexproof / protection. It's not pleasant to have to burn two cards to deal with something, but at least it is an option. I'm going to hope for plenty of cards that let you spread shield counters onto any of your creatures, since I don't expect the creatures that natively have them to be particularly pushed. I'll also call out that they're a good way to create a creature that can live through a board wipe, since granting indestructibility isn't always feasible.

Overall, I think the mechanics look pretty solid. I suspect there may be some memory / play issues with connive and blitz... but if you're playing on Arena and the game client does everything for you, they work much better. I'll hope shield counters end up being evergreen, or at least deciduous.

....anyway, as for individual cards:

• An Offer You Can't Refuse looks like an instant cross-format staple. I think it's a little weaker than Swan Song in EDH - most of my countermagic is used on instants/sorceries, so I don't value the additional flexibility to hit artifacts/planeswalkers that highly. On the other hand, two treasures is much more likely to backfire than a 2/2 bird. Still, I think it's better in other formats, where stopping planeswalkers is more relevant and the extra mana is less likely to be useful.... and given that I think Swan Song is already one of the best counterspells in EDH, I'll probably still jam this in a ton of decks. I'll probably also hit my own spell with it at least once off Epic Experiment, just as a ritual effect.
• Rumor Gatherer is fantastic white card draw that rewards a go-wide strategy. It does require a little investment to pull off, but not too difficult. I like draw engines like this and Morbid Opportunist showing up at uncommon, since they've traditionally been rare. White's card draw may eventually reach green's level of oversaturation (Beast Whisperer / Guardian Project / The Great Henge all showing up in near-consecutive sets), but I'm not going to complain for a while.
• Waterfront District (and the rest of its cycle) are solid budget fixing options. Not as efficient as actual cycling / horizon lands or with Life from the Loam, but nice to have available.
• Vivien on the Hunt is an expensive Birthing Pod. Seems safe at 6 mana, but still a strong effect.
• Mysterious Limousine amuses me. It's an interesting blink engine // repeatable Journey to Nowhere. Is it good? No idea, but seems fun.
• Cut of the Profits is a bit clunky as a draw spell, but if you copy it, then it becomes pretty powerful (even if it does cost a ton of life).
• Ob Nixilis, the Adversary is sweet. 'Kicker: sacrifice a 7-power creature to draw 7 cards' is pretty absurd on a 3-drop, and there are certainly plenty of other options too. The +1 and -2 are a bit less exciting though.
• Getaway Car is... eh. Combat-speed protection is pretty underwhelming.
• Urabrask, Heretic Praetor is nice. Impulsive draw isn't quite as oppressive as some of the praetors' effects, but I like the design.
• Elspeth Resplendent is interesting. The (-3) is quite nice - I'm always a sucker for white ramping lands onto the battlefield via Sun Titan effects. The (+1) isn't that spicy at first glance, but throwing a pile of keywords onto a creature seems quite fun.
• Halo Fountain is awesome. Would my Samut deck play a card with ', : untap two creatures' and no other text? Absolutely. The heavy-white commitment does make it a little tricky to activate, but given that I've been requesting more heavy color commitments to encourage monocolor strategies, I can't complain. (also, it can randomly win the game sometimes, but I expect that to be flavor text in my build)
• Wiretapping is reasonable. Draws an extra card each turn, plus some additional value if you can fulfill the quest of having 9+ cards in hand. Also: good catch to whoever recently noticed the hideaway errata.
• Jaxis, the Troublemaker is the jankiest Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker variant I have ever seen, but throwing additional value onto your rummaging seems solid.
• A Little Chat is an interesting Village Rites / Plumb the Forbidden variant in blue.
• Falco Spara, Pactweaver is a janky Future Sight that also costs counters. May be a little clunky, but interesting build-around.
• Henzie "Toolbox" Torre is sweet. 'Scales for # of times your commander has been cast' effects can be sort of annoying (see Fury Storm, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher), but I like that it enables the build-around mechanic - lategame, you can Sneak Attack your entire hand each turn, which seems sweet.
• Anhelo, the Painter is very solid, assuming you have things to sacrifice. Given that the entire point of my Kess deck is to copy Cruel Ultimatum a bunch of times, I will tip my fedora to Anhelo's style.
• Kitt Kanto, Mayhem Diva, Kamiz, Obscura Oculus, and Perrie, the Pulverizer all read as sort of clunky in comparison. They might play well, but I don't feel like memorizing their text box novels.

[marioguy3]

An Offer You Can't Refuse seems really good in modern if you want to counter your own Gut Shot to power Jace, the Mind Sculptor on turn two.

[CommanderMaster999]

Bad news is Clearly Urabrask is gonna be the worst of the praetor super cycle like last time this time he's just a weaker Uba Mask

Good news is fits flavorfully with the lore of him

But don't brush him off under any circumstances he's probably a lot better than what meets the eye

1. Obviously you get 2 cards instead of 1 (one in exile for play and draw) when the opponent has to really hope its a card they can play and not the game ending card they can't play yet

2. if they don't have any card draw effects in hand or play and something that doesn't hit exile they stuck not drawing cards

3. He hoses miracle cards if hit by him

4. cards like Drannith Magistrate

5. "Play" so lands are safe.

6. they actually remembered the phyrexian watermark this time (condolences for jin-gitaxias fans)

the bigger problem here is we all comparing him to Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider and Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant


and another card Halo Fountain don't shrug that alt win part either thats also easier than it looks white is the king of token making and theres plenty of stuff that can tap creatures without attacking (though you can just do it in response with 15 attackers) my favorite is Cryptolith Rite for the tap part

[kirkusjones]

and another card Halo Fountain don't shrug that alt win part either thats also easier than it looks white is the king of token making and theres plenty of stuff that can tap creatures without attacking (though you can just do it in response with 15 attackers) my favorite is Cryptolith Rite for the tap part

Earthcraft says hi.

[BeneTleilax]

Earthcraft says hi.

Oh no, they've printed a card that breaks Earthcraft!

[Crazy Monkey]

As a player who uses a fair number of nonbasics which enter tapped, I like the common lands this time around quite a bit. Other than the Horizon Canopy cycle, there have not been mana fixing lands which can draw cards later. It's a nice upgrade for some of my terrible grindy Life from the Loam engines.

I like what Halo Fountain and Rumor Gatherer add for white decks. Just some reasonable, in color card advantage engines that built on existing strengths. I'm very happy that the fountain is not legendary so dumb ideas using animated copys to untap each other can work, that's my kind of combo. I'm also very happy with how color intensive they can be, this is the best way to add solid cards to specific colors.

Devilish Valet really tickles the part of my brain that wants big numbers. Inherently having trample and haste makes it a solid game ender in a lot of creature/token heavy strategies. And 2^^^n power in Zada by hitting a board of Chancellor of the Forge with Heat Shimmer outpaces the previous big number record.

[CommanderMaster999]

and another card Halo Fountain don't shrug that alt win part either thats also easier than it looks white is the king of token making and theres plenty of stuff that can tap creatures without attacking (though you can just do it in response with 15 attackers) my favorite is Cryptolith Rite for the tap part

Earthcraft says hi.

You also have Plargg, Dean of Chaos // Augusta, Dean of Order then just do the wwwww before blockers are even declared

[Dragonlover]

My current plan for Halo Fountain in Golos is Cryptolith Rite and tokens, but I was not expecting another wincon this soon.

Dragonlover

[Jemolk]

Stapling an alt-wincon onto a grindy value card like Halo Fountain is kinda obnoxious. Alt-wincons should have significant downsides like very little if they're not winning the game, and value engines shouldn't win the game. I know I'm fighting a losing battle here, since Planeswalkers have been value engines that win the game for too long already, but I still hate it. It's almost an excellent card in one of two ways, but by stapling them together, it becomes an obnoxious and boring card. Blech.

By contrast, I quite like Urabrask, Heretic Praetor's design. That makes the second time Urabrask is the only Praetor I don't hate. Wish they'd stop designing cards like the other Praetors, but they can make as many cards on the level of Urabrask as they want; I'm here for it.

[Gashnaw]

Halo should get banned. I mean the RC continues to talk about the social contract Halo fountain does the exact opposite of what they want.

That said. It probably will not get banned until one of them abuses it.

I am really fond of Falco.

[Cyberium]

Of the all the alternative commanders in precons, Tivit, Seller of Secrets if my favorite, being the politician of the lot, though Parnesse, the Subtle Brush is better at making friends when needed. Would be hilarious to somehow control an opponent's next turn and make him cast spells targeting your stuff, then die of life losses. XD

Halo should get banned. I mean the RC continues to talk about the social contract Halo fountain does the exact opposite of what they want.

That said. It probably will not get banned until one of them abuses it.

I am really fond of Falco.

15 tapped creatures, with such high white mana dedication, doesn't come easily in a group game.

[DirkGently]

They are really pushing Brostorm decks. Toolbox looks like the opposite of a toolbox general, instead another "kill me or perish" linear guy.

Are we looking at the same card? He looks painfully fair to me. It's only a 1-mana discount until you've cast him twice, and you need to be okay with sacking the creature so it requires build-around.

Idk why his name is toolbox though. Seems like if you're gonna give a card a name that means something in the game, it should be that thing.

Edit: also doesn't the wording seem off to anyone else? I would think it should be "creature cards in your hand have blitz"? "Creature spells you cast" seems like it's too late to blitz because you already cast it?

I think y'all are overreacting about halo fountain. 15 is a ton, and they have to be tapped so probably in play at your uptap, it can be destroyed pre-combat, plus it costs a ton of white to activate. It's way worse than a decent overrun, the only upside being that it's an okay but unexciting value engine (albeit one that telegraphs your win if you plan to get to 15). I suspect it'll be a split card of crappy-white-craterhoof for token decks, and interesting value engine for tap-ability tribal.

Honestly everything looks pretty tame so far I think. Grixis dude and the sphinx are the most problematic imo and they're still okay looking I think.

[Mookie]

Yeah, my perspective re: Halo Fountain's alternate win condition mode is 'if you have fifteen creatures, you're probably already pretty close to winning the game'. The fact that they need to be tapped also means they'll usually need to have lost summoning sickness (ignoring tap-as-a-cost effects), in which case it can trivially be stopped by any board wipe. Don't get me wrong - I would prefer if it were something like 'make a 20/20 token' instead of the direct win condition - but I don't expect it come up that often.

Edit: also doesn't the wording seem off to anyone else? I would think it should be "creature cards in your hand have blitz"? "Creature spells you cast" seems like it's too late to blitz because you already cast it?

Yeah, this does seem odd. I'm guessing it's a typo / will receive errata, unless they're doing a rules update.

Also: I will give an internet cookie to anyone that makes a Falco Spara, Pactweaver clone deck, just so they can say 'that ain't falco!'

[marioguy3]

Opinion: NO alternate wincons should be banned in EDH until Thoracle is banned; it is the most mana efficient wincon after all. Halo Fountain is nowhere near as bannable as Thoracle.

It is also a fascinating design that is cool for white; I usually find white cards most boring of all the cards, but this card is exciting.

[pokken]

Man tivit looks like pure fun for me. I've been meaning to make a focused blink deck and your commander nearly going infinite with eldrazi displacer is my jam.

I look forward to finding stupid ways to break that. Maybe like playing the choose how people vote this turn cards or whatever. Too bad treasures don't make colorless. :p

[Serenade]

As someone who plays a crummy Kels deck, I do like casualty.

Perrie, the Pulverizer feels like bait to buy reserved list cards with weird counters.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

I would think it should be "creature cards in your hand have blitz"? "Creature spells you cast" seems like it's too late to blitz because you already cast it?

Well, looking at the rules, the first part of casting a spell is moving to the stack, then determining which cost you're gonna pay.

It does fit in with how cost reduction effects are worded (spells you cast cost X less to cast). And they probably worded it this way so you can blitz no matter where you cast it from (like from exile), much shorter than writing out "creature cards not on the battlefield have blitz".

EDIT: It also allows COPIES of spells to have blitz, like the copies you get from Garth One-Eye and God-Eternal Kefnet.

[duducrash]

If An Offer You Can't Refuse is really cheap at release I'll pick copies whenever I buy cards from anywhere. Seems like something that will be heavily demanded in a while

[kraus911]

Musician for the win!

Perrie, the Pulverizer feels like bait to buy reserved list cards with weird counters.