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Dunadain
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Post by Dunadain » 3 months ago

duducrash wrote:
3 months ago
Dunadain wrote:
3 months ago
I love the idea of a commander with an adventure, but all of the legendary adventures so far haven't resonated with me.
Your simic Kellan did sound like a lot of fun as a concept TBH. I have been watching the videos of the youtuber you and @TheGildedGoose mentioned and while I understand the idea of the commander filling the whole that is lacking in the 99, I wonder if simic Kinnan did actually do that for you as Glissa Sunslayer did for him. How did it play out? one cast of the adventure side per game? did he offer you protection afterwards? I can't help but wonder if taking out Keruga, the Macrosage cutting down the bombs from high 40s to arround 25-30 and adding more ramp and interaction wouldn't make the deck flow better, you want to play a long game but it lacks attrition and it could even be added on theme maybe Ezuri's Predation Thorn Mammoth and Titan of Industry would be on plan and still provide you the chance to act on board.

To act on that philosophy of the Glissa Sunslayer what is Kellan giving you, that is allowing you to lack on the 99? and how well and consistently he is doing so?
I wrote a follow-up on the three games I played with it. You can find it in my signature.

Honestly, I probably haven't given it a fair shake, the first two games the whole table got ranched, and the third game I was victim to some awful variance (0.6%).

However, the deck was just so boring, which is kind of my own fault, I literally designed it to play identically for the first 3 turns, then play largely interchangeable bombs every turn for the rest of the game.

It was never supposed to be a fun deck though, I just found it to be an interesting challenge and I did enjoy brewing it, and figuring out the numbers.

Going back to the Glissa Sunslayer example. The decks are pretty fundamentally different, the Glissa Sunslayer deck just provided the inspiration.

Glissa is a strong 3 drop that can be consistently ramped into on turn 2 with a mana dork, but she's also a blocker, an enchantment killer, and a draw engine.

Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy is a consistent ramp engine on t2 and a cantriping body on turn 3, but after that he's much less exciting then Glissa Sunslayer.

None of this means that you couldn't make a fun deck with Simic Kellan, and I'd like to try that sometime, but this plan of relying solely on your commander to fill up the entire 1-4 section on your curve, while surprisingly sound, isn't a ton of fun to actually play.

I will say, I'm positive building the deck around Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy's attack trigger isn't worth it, between the clue he makes, Gingerbread Cabin consistently coming online early-mid game, and scary artifacts your opponents might be playing, you're already getting like, 90% of the total possible value you might get from his attack trigger, putting a bunch of Darksteel Relics in your deck to eek out that last 10% is a fool errand (Mithril Coat is a cool piece of tech though). So you're pretty much signing up to play a non-commander focused deck, where your commander is just a good role filler. Which is fine (and, again, the whole place this concept started). However, he has the unfortunate condition of being Simic, which might be the least interesting color combination.

It's funny I actually really like green and blue, but, being the two worst removal colors, they need to lean on another color for removal, on their own they're not for me, and adding them together doesn't really change that.
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TheGildedGoose
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 3 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
3 months ago
It's funny I actually really like green and blue, but, being the two worst removal colors, they need to lean on another color for removal, on their own they're not for me, and adding them together doesn't really change that.
Give it 5 years.

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Post by Dunadain » 3 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
3 months ago
Dunadain wrote:
3 months ago
It's funny I actually really like green and blue, but, being the two worst removal colors, they need to lean on another color for removal, on their own they're not for me, and adding them together doesn't really change that.
Give it 5 years.
Lol, I feel like we are kind of already out of "Simic Winter" or whatever you want to call it.

Idk, green has gotten some cool new toys, but I feel wizards must of finally fired the guy that kept designing busted Simic cards /hj
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 3 months ago

Dunadain wrote:
3 months ago
Lol, I feel like we are kind of already out of "Simic Winter" or whatever you want to call it.

Idk, green has gotten some cool new toys, but I feel wizards must of finally fired the guy that kept designing busted Simic cards /hj
Cyber Conversion and Eaten by Piranhas are very new cards, and it feels like they're pushing blue's removal in this manner. I wish there was more hard spot removal, as well as more wipes, but really in Simic you have the tools to ramp and sustain yourself until Oblivion Stone and the rest become viable removal spells. My point is less that they're designing more powerful cards for Simic specifically and more that they're apparently exploring new design territory which will, over time, make the color pair a little better at control.

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Post by duducrash » 3 months ago

I feel blue can handle stuff. They have some nice creature stuff Rapid Hybridization for example is a prime removal spell, they even got some exile between Resculpt Reality Shift Between bounce and counters they have it good. Dress Down is even a somewhat new toy that answers stuff that theorically can't be answered. I feel the weak link in removal is green. While I think their design space is cool having fight for creatures and a plethora of removal unnatural the execution might be lacking.

To expand on, what is simics space for removal? counters stappled into creatures?

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 3 months ago

duducrash wrote:
3 months ago
To expand on, what is simics space for removal? counters stappled into creatures?
I like the idea of more mass polymorphs or mass fights.

For Slogurk specifically I want something like this:

Spill Over
Sorcery
Target creature with Trample you control deals damage equal to its power to any number of target creatures.

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Post by duducrash » 3 months ago

No, not the ants!!

For each creature your opponents control create a 1/1 giant ant token with deathtouch. Each of those tokens fights a different one of those creatures


my suggestion for a mono green board wipe

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Post by yeti1069 » 3 months ago

duducrash wrote:
3 months ago
No, not the ants!!

For each creature your opponents control create a 1/1 giant ant token with deathtouch. Each of those tokens fights a different one of those creatures


my suggestion for a mono green board wipe
I don't think they'd knock off Ezuri's Predation, make the creatures smaller, but more likely to kill whatever they're fighting, though I do like the concept. You would have to work a bit to retain anything after the fighting.

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 3 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
3 months ago
Dunadain wrote:
3 months ago
Lol, I feel like we are kind of already out of "Simic Winter" or whatever you want to call it.

Idk, green has gotten some cool new toys, but I feel wizards must of finally fired the guy that kept designing busted Simic cards /hj
Cyber Conversion and Eaten by Piranhas are very new cards, and it feels like they're pushing blue's removal in this manner.
You are fully right, they talked on how they are replacing what would be cards for blue removal for Eaten by Piranhas like effects instead.
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Post by duducrash » 3 months ago

yeti1069 wrote:
3 months ago
I don't think they'd knock off Ezuri's Predation, make the creatures smaller, but more likely to kill whatever they're fighting, though I do like the concept. You would have to work a bit to retain anything after the fighting.
here's my line of thought

It's less but it costs more. its kinda hard to cast. and you don't get the bodies after. thinking trough it would be a one sided wipe and allow you to alpha strike. so I'd probably tweak something, but go in that direction. I'm a BIG fan of being heavy on the colored pips to make it harder to cast

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Post by yeti1069 » 3 months ago

duducrash wrote:
3 months ago
yeti1069 wrote:
3 months ago
I don't think they'd knock off Ezuri's Predation, make the creatures smaller, but more likely to kill whatever they're fighting, though I do like the concept. You would have to work a bit to retain anything after the fighting.
here's my line of thought

It's less but it costs more. its kinda hard to cast. and you don't get the bodies after. thinking trough it would be a one sided wipe and allow you to alpha strike. so I'd probably tweak something, but go in that direction. I'm a BIG fan of being heavy on the colored pips to make it harder to cast
I missed that it was an extra . Still, I think a 1-sided wipe in green may be asking for a lot, especially when it doesn't require you to have/give up any existing creatures. Compare that to something like Kindred Dominance. KD has the downside of sometimes killing some of your stuff, and sometimes not killing some creatures your opponents control that share a tribe, but both those situations are fairly limited. Spill Over will never kill your other creatures and will kill everything your opponents control, plus you have creature ETB/LTB synergies, and there's the chance you ALSO end up with some number of deathtouch 1/1s. I can't think of any 1-sided board wipes that come close to that value, outside of CycRift. Beats the pants off Ezuri's Predation.

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Post by Mookie » 3 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
3 months ago
duducrash wrote:
3 months ago
To expand on, what is simics space for removal? counters stappled into creatures?
I like the idea of more mass polymorphs or mass fights.

For Slogurk specifically I want something like this:

Spill Over
Sorcery
Target creature with Trample you control deals damage equal to its power to any number of target creatures.
Spinning Wheel Kick? Obviously less efficient, but I don't think green will be getting a three mana Plague Wind / Chandra's Ignition any time soon. Setessan Tactics is also an option if you want mass fight.

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 3 months ago

Mookie wrote:
3 months ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
3 months ago
duducrash wrote:
3 months ago
To expand on, what is simics space for removal? counters stappled into creatures?
I like the idea of more mass polymorphs or mass fights.

For Slogurk specifically I want something like this:

Spill Over
Sorcery
Target creature with Trample you control deals damage equal to its power to any number of target creatures.
Spinning Wheel Kick? Obviously less efficient, but I don't think green will be getting a three mana Plague Wind / Chandra's Ignition any time soon. Setessan Tactics is also an option if you want mass fight.
I should've added in divided somewhere. I added that in mentally but didn't type it.

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Post by Artaud » 3 months ago

Well you can always T&N for Apex Altisaur and Spearbreaker Behemoth with 1 mana open to clear a board ;) It's 10 mana total though.

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Post by duducrash » 3 months ago

Mookie wrote:
3 months ago
Spinning Wheel Kick?
I was swept by this in the new Atraxa, Grand Unifier in Brawl recently. it was pretty huge. but gets kinda expensive to sweep a whole board of 3 other players

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 3 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
3 months ago
Kellan is clearly a 1-hit-wonder. His first album was a masterpiece and subsequent releases have been weak sauce. The art being pretty jank is just the icing on top.
From what wotc have said, adventure cards tend to designed more to be support to other deck strategy vs being cards to build a deck around so I think his first card was more of an outlier and his other two cards are more for the 99.
Dunadain wrote:
3 months ago
I'm really hoping his dimir one turns out nice (I think that one's next, right?)
My guess/ hope (see below) is he will be UR/ RGWU to tie all his cards back together, though depending on the story I can see him becoming B.
I love the idea of a commander with an adventure, but all of the legendary adventures so far haven't resonated with me.
Been wanting to make an adventure deck and I kinda like the idea of it being RGWU (blackless) and why I'm kinda hoping Kellan is RGWU character and we are just seeing just certain aspects of his character,
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Post by NZB2323 » 3 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
3 months ago
Dunadain wrote:
3 months ago
It's funny I actually really like green and blue, but, being the two worst removal colors, they need to lean on another color for removal, on their own they're not for me, and adding them together doesn't really change that.
Give it 5 years.
Yeah, between Archdruid's Charm, Hard-Hitting Question, and Pick Your Poison, green got some good removal in the set.

@Mookie, good call on Spinning Wheel Kick. I'll definitely have to add that to Legolas, Counter of Kills, which obviously would be better with black, but it's fun to make a Simic deck based on removal.

I'm also going to try out Proft's Eidetic Memory and case of the trampled garden to Legolas.
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Post by Mookie » 3 months ago

NZB2323 wrote:
3 months ago
@Mookie, good call on Spinning Wheel Kick. I'll definitely have to add that to Legolas, Counter of Kills, which obviously would be better with black, but it's fun to make a Simic deck based on removal.
I'll also call out Monstrous Onslaught.

More broadly, Ezuri's Predation is a color pie break - green isn't supposed to be able to kill opposing creatures without having its own creatures. But if it does have Ghalta, Primal Hunger or some other fatty? In that situation, it has plenty of answers. There are plenty of good fight / bite spells, plus the classic 'force your opponents to chump block so they don't die' strategy (or Lure effects).

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 3 months ago

Monstrous Onslaught looks like a playable card. Never noticed it before. But I don't have any commanders over 5 power, so that may be why. I seem to like go-wide better than go-tall.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 months ago

and here we go...again

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Post by DirkGently » 2 months ago

That art looks like crap.

There, I said it.
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Post by Serenade » 2 months ago

There are some Outlaws leaks on Reddit, too.


I'm gonna hate curving Sigarda 1.0 into this and then immediately eating a Farewell. Nine power is not ideal for a general. Indestructible is nice, but evasion could make it so much better. Wow, it nails the name.

Uril probably uses the mana better.
Tuvasa voltron is a funny idea.
Danitha, New Benalia's Light has enough other abilities to make okay use of this card.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 2 months ago

So, the Outlaws Commander deck colors leaked, and we have a Fallout Sultai deck and an Outlaws Sultai deck. I hope this color combo gets the love it needs.

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Post by Hermes_ » 2 months ago

just as a reminder the face cards for the fallout decks are Dogmeat, Ever Loyal, Dr. Madison Li, Caesar, Legion's Emperor and The Wise Mothman

leaked image of the outlaw commander decks
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Post by Dunadain » 2 months ago

I didn't notice it during spoilers, but even if you don't have any face-down creatures, Showstopping Surprise is an instant speed Chandra's Ignition.

Obviously, for many decks the fact that ignition also deals damage to opponents is a big deal, but still.
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