Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[NZB2323]

sand scout is one hell of an upgrade on Knight of the White Orchid. I guess it does put the land into play tapped, but still.

embrace the unknown is pretty spicy for a new retrace spell. Retrace is a really strong mechanic with basically no good cards. This might be the best one?

Thunderclap Drake seems pretty nutty. The front half is already very playable and then the back half could be game winning. Plus hey, it pecks in for 2 sometimes.

I like Eris, Roar of the Storm as a Jori En, Ruin Diver that actually provides a game plan instead of just generating incremental CA.

Forger's Foundry is also pretty strong, lot of upside for a 3mv rock.

tower winder looks like a worse Baleful Strix but still decent.

heartless conscription - gonti getting reposted to r/im14andthisisdeep

arcane heist is an impressive upgrade to Memory Plunder for the right deck.

The angel looks...fine.

Is sand scout better than Knight of the White Orchid? Are people really going to put deserts into their decks just to play this card?

[PrimevalCommander]

I am looking intently for some spicy instants to come from the instant and sorcery deck, but so far all that have been spoiled are sorcerys, artifacts and creatures with flash, but no instants . Hope still remains, but it just seems odd.

[CommanderMaster999]

Answers for Gavin Verhey hints

Hint #1: There is a new card that creates Sand Warrior tokens! — Sand Scout: you make the token if a land card is put into a graveyard from anywhere

Hint #2: There is a two-drop creature that taps for two mana... with a restriction. — Thieving Varmint: very simple The restriction was it can only be used on spells you don't own

Hint #3: There is a new card with storm! — Elemental Eruption: making a 4/4 dragon with prowess is what it does

Hint #4: There is a card that cares specifically about Command Tower. —Tower Winder: …. It literally tutors for Command Tower on ETB

Hint #5: There is a card that is a sly reference to a blue rare from Odyssey block. — Smirking Spelljacker: "Smirking Spelljacker" its basically a Creature version of that spell too. To cast the exiled card you have to attack with the creature.

Hint #6: There is a card that does something for "each time you've cast your commander from the command zone this game." — Thunderclap Drake: when you sac it for its ability it gives the next instant and sorcery storm for commander casts

Hint #7: There is a card named Rumbleweed —: it has the Ghalta, Primal Hunger cost reduction ability but this time it's for lands in your graveyard but basically it's a 8/8 that has a ETB of Overrun

Hint #8: There is an 8-mana black board sweeper. — Heartless Conspriction: it exiles all creatures….😈 but you can cast them now and are rainbow mana

Hint #9: There is a new creatureland - meaning, a land that turns into a creatu" card]Cactus Preserve[/card]: it turns into a X/X mainland equal to the highest mana value of commanders

Hint #10: There is a card that does something, "For each mana from a Desert spent to cast this
spell" — Cataclysmic Prospecting: "create a tapped treasure token." It's for a wrath spell that damages creatures

Hint #11: There is Magic's 13th ever monoblack "enchant land" aura. — Discreet Retreat: makes a land tap for two mana for outlaw spells, also the first outlaw you cast each turn you basically Phyrexian Arena trigger.

Hint #12: There is a new Ninja with Ninjutsu... and one other returning ability. — Orochi Soul-Reaver: the other ability is *drum roll*….manifest….from a opponents library so a saboteur version of Thieving Amalgam (and by the way it gives that to all the creatures, it's "one or more" before you get excited so one for each opponent.)


Oh by the way not the best lands but remember those Enemy Filter lands from Fallout UB? Good news each deck has them too so we have a Universe Within version of those now.

"Desert bloom" has the boros one, "Most wanted" has the Orzhov one, "Quick draw" ofcoarse has the Izzet one, and "Grand larceny" has both the Simic and Golgari ones.

[pokken]

oh man Embrace the Unknown really gets my Life from the Loam juices flowing. :D Might be time for another RUG lands deck.

[DirkGently]

@CommanderMaster999 Spelljack and Smirking Spelljacker .

@NZB2323 are you not maining Scavenger Grounds in every deck?

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

"Desert bloom" has the boros one, "Most wanted" has the Orzhov one, "Quick draw" ofcoarse has the Izzet one, and "Grand larceny" has both the Simic and Golgari ones.

I would not be surprised in the slightest if that was the main reason behind the color identities for those decks.

[NZB2323]

@CommanderMaster999 Spelljack and Smirking Spelljacker .

@NZB2323 are you not maining Scavenger Grounds in every deck?

No. Should I be? I didn't realize it's such a staple. It's in 4% of decks on EDHREC. I don't think I've ever run it in any deck.

Neheb, the Worthy has Bojuka Bog, Rakdos Charm, and Dauthi Voidwalker for GY hate and runs Ancient Tomb, Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace, and Geier Reach Sanitarium for colorless lands.

Legolas, Counter of Kills doesn't have any GY hate, but it has a bunch of counterspells and runs Ancient Tomb and Rogue's Passage for colorless lands.

Tymna the Weaver//Ravos, Soultender has Bojuka Bog, Dauthi Voidwalker, Jirina, Dauntless General, General's Enforcer, Dawnbringer Cleric, and Remorseful Cleric as GY hate and runs Ancient Tomb, Vault of the Archangel, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, and Phyrexian Tower as colorless lands.

Éowyn, Shieldmaiden has Sanctifier en-Vec, Containment Priest, and Drannith Magistrate as GY hate and Ancient Tomb, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, and Academy Ruins as colorless lands.

Morophon, the Boundless has Bojuka Bog as GY hate and Ancient Tomb as a colorless land. I guess I could add it to Morophon. I replaced Return to Nature in my green decks with Archdruid's Charm, and having cards like Archdruid's charm makes it harder to run colorless lands, especially when the deck is also running Counterspell or Flametongue Yearling.

Cleric Tribal runs Dauthi Voidwalker, Auriok Champion, Voice of the Blessed, Leonin Relic-Warder, Damn, Knight of the White Orchid, Soltari Monk, Soltari Priest, Despark, General's Enforcer, Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, and Grave Pact.

Human tribal has Knight of the White Orchid, Sanctifier en-Vec, Inspiring Veteran, Marshal of Zhalfir, Unsettled Mariner, Meddling Mage, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, and Blade Historian.

[Cyberium]

NOOOO Kirri, Talented Sprout why aren't you Golgari

I always thought Yuma is better with black (therefore Jund), since a major aspect of the color is self-actualization, and Yuma's background is pretty much it. Kirri as black would make him so much more interesting.

[MAGUSZANIN]

heartless conscription - gonti getting reposted to r/im14andthisisdeep

I though Heartless Conscription was over costed trash at first, but then I thought about it as Farewell that you pay 2 more mana for and can't hit non-creatures..... but with the HUGE upside that it merely "bounces" your things and allows you to cast everything else your opponents' had.

You need to be in a deck that can reliably cast 8 drops well ahead of curve, but as long as you can do that this card is absurd. The next turn you are probably untapping and redeploying your best stuff + whatever choice bits you got from the rest of the table, and it only goes up from there.

The usual issue with Ramp is that you have so many cards in your deck that ramp you and then start running out of cards to cast. This solves that via a simple proposition: cast your opponent's best stuff after you resolve the over costed boardwipe!

TLDR: Thinking of Heartless Conscription as Sunfall and you will be disappointed. Think of it as Plague Wind that has the downside of making you recast your things after in exchange for costing 1 less mana and stealing the opponent's stuff as well. In a hard ramp list, a cast from exile list, or certain others that's actually pretty good.

[DirkGently]

@NZB2323 i was mostly kidding, but I do think it's a good card if you can afford a colourless land and are playing control.

Being able to tutor a utility land into play plus a pretty good effect on the body for 2 is kinda insane. Deserts are a bit limited ofc but I don't think it's a crazy imposition to run 1-2 for most decks.

Too bad Tarnation Vista isn't a desert, that would have been crazy good.

[CommanderMaster999]

@CommanderMaster999 Spelljack and Smirking Spelljacker .

@NZB2323 are you not maining Scavenger Grounds in every deck?

Thanks

Honestly made a mistake I missed the "block" part so it was the "Odyessy block" so I would have spotted Spelljack as a culprit because of gonti

[Mookie]

More stuff! I think we're done with spoilers, but it's hard to tell.

• We Ride at Dawn seems like strong support for legend-heavy decks. Not sure how many legends you need for it though - Teysa is at 12, which feels like a ton, but I'm not sure if that is actually enough.
• Heartless Conscription is an interesting Decree of Pain variant - instead of drawing cards, you 'draw' the creatures. Worse against tokens, better against indestructible.
• Savvy Trader is another Eternal Witness variant, this time with cost reduction. Seems alright.
• Tower Winder is hard to evaluate. It's not ramp, and it's worse to flicker / recur than Sylvan Ranger / Sakura-Tribe Elder. On the other hand, Command Tower is good fixing and it has two keywords. Worth testing, at least.
• Thunderclap Drake is a two mana cost reducer with upside. Seems like a nice improvement over Baral, Chief of Compliance / Goblin Electromancer, although 1 toughness can be relevant.
• Lock and Load = cantrip with storm? Interesting.
• Crackling Spellslinger is certainly splashy. Five mana is a lot for something that is dubiously better than Repeated Reverberation, but it's certainly sweet.
• Angel of Indemnity is a sweet Sun Titan variant. No attack trigger, but a bunch of other relevant text. There aren't many other white cards I can think of that can recur a 4-drop on ETB, which gives it a lot of bonus flexibility.

I'll need to do some analysis, but I'm generally happy with the set - lots of interesting stuff in it, and some new design space being explored.

[Serenade]

OTC has a TON of stuff for me.

Both angels look like strong candidates for Giada.
I need to re-think what plants I have in Phylath (or if Kirri is just a better option).
Pia: Embrace the Unknown is outstanding for when I get Land Tax going, and Pyretic Charge is finally a good plot card (I was really hoping for an overrun or something that could pump a thopter army).
Enemy signet lands! Glad we are getting them in-universe so soon.

The Clue token is phenomenal.

[duducrash]

Is it all spoiled already? I was expecting a nashi card

[CommanderMaster999]

Is it all spoiled already? I was expecting a nashi card

Nope.. the nashi is just Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion

But anyway the theft deck got thr short straw of the worst valued deck but the break it catches is not too many cards need be replaced in that deck

The only must have upgrades based on the theme is the follows (theft/saboteur matters)

• Tasha, the Witch Queen
• Xanathar, Guild Kingpin
• Wrexial, the Risen Deep
• Arvinox, the Mind Flail
• Thada Adel, Acquisitor
• Extract from Darkness
• Havengul Lich
• Mindleech Mass

For expensive upgrade that would be Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor

[yeti1069]

Heartless Conscription

I'm definitely going to try this in Prosper where I have generally shied away from non-one-sided board wipes, since Prosper already tends to draw removal, and it can be rough if I have to start casting him for 10+ mana. This solves that issue by sending Prosper to exile and getting to recast it both without any tax and without adding to the commander tax. Even better, however, is that all the stuff that got exiled with this will then make treasure on cast.

Arcane Heist is an impressive upgrade to Memory Plunder for the right deck.

I'm already running Plunder in Captain N'ghathrod, and I'm wondering whether this replaces that, or gets slotted in beside it. I'm also running Whispering Madness, which tends to get in 1 or 2 times at least after being ciphered, so that part seems reasonable. Plunder being an instant has been very useful at times, and it being if I want means I can cast it for free/reduced cost with K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth, so I'm leaning away from a swap there. Just no clue what else I would sub out for this. I'd been debating adding more ways to cast spells from other players' yards, but the deck already has a kind of hefty average CMC, so I didn't want to go adding more top-end stuff like Diluvian Primordial. At 4 mana, this is more reasonable.

[yeti1069]

More stuff! I think we're done with spoilers, but it's hard to tell.

• We Ride at Dawn seems like strong support for legend-heavy decks. Not sure how many legends you need for it though - Teysa is at 12, which feels like a ton, but I'm not sure if that is actually enough.

I think that's probably plenty, especially given how many tokens (of both white and black) you end up with. It just makes casting those all free.

I'll almost certainly be adding this to my Hobbits deck--on the one hand, the 3-slot is kind of jam-packed, but I've been playing with Bennie Bracks, Zoologist for a while there, and that has almost always been free on turn 3 or 4, and I'm on close to 30 legends there. Also, go-wide is one of the game plans, and Frodo, at least, attacks every turn, and there's the possibility of Sam attacking as well, which means another token or 2 every turn.

[yeti1069]

Satoru, the Infiltrator -- going in Yuriko, possibly also going in Black Rose and/or Sefris
Vraska Joins Up -- going in Hobbits
Roxanne, Starfall Savant -- probably going in Henzie
Annie Joins Up -- maybe going in Ghired
Final Showdown -- almost definitely going in Queen Marchesa (Sunforger-able board wipe), and possibly other decks as well
Outcaster Trailblazer -- possibly going in Ghired
Embrace the Unknown -- definitely going in Prosper
Savvy Trader -- maybe going in Henzie
Heartless Conscription -- trying this in Prosper; may try elsewhere as well
Ororchi Soul-Reaver -- considering for Kadena
Arcane Heist -- probably going in Captain N
Kambal, Profiteering Mayor -- almost certainly going in Hobbits; may end up elsewhere as well
Ghired, Mirror of the Wilds -- going in Ghired (duh!)
Rakdos Joins Up -- maybe going in Sauron
The Gitrog, Ravenous Ride -- might go in Smeagol, may go in Henzie
We Ride at Dawn -- going in Hobbits to at least try

[folding_music]

Dead Before Sunrise would this have been OP with "or player" written on it? or with "and Barbarians" written on it? my dwarven blood boils (and Zalto will never be good)

[Uncle_Krupi]

Dead Before Sunrise would this have been OP with "or player" written on it? or with "and Barbarians" written on it? my dwarven blood boils (and Zalto will never be good)

It doesn't give them haste so I'm inclined to say it wouldn't have been too OP, no. Infinite outlaws + mass haste effect + a 4 cmc spell isn't intimidating, seems like it would be pretty telegraphed. My Naya humans deck's various Goblin Bombardment / Saffi Eriksdotter / etc. combos are easier to assemble and that deck ain't cEDH.

[Dunadain]

Dead Before Sunrise would this have been OP with "or player" written on it? or with "and Barbarians" written on it? my dwarven blood boils (and Zalto will never be good)

Outlaws are an established tribe in the set so all of this is a bit of a moot point, but I think it would be a pretty substantial power increase.

[cheonice]

Cards i want to test:
Ephara: Angel of Indemnity and Final Showdown
Selvala: Final Showdown, Selvala, Eager Trailblazer and Aven Interrupter
Ghyrson : Eroded Canyon, Thunderclap Drake, Fblthp, Lost on the Range, Lock and Load
Braids: Insatiable Avarice
Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second: Great Train Heist

Potential new deck:
Obeka, Splitter of Seconds

Other potential cards:

• 1 Lavaspur Boots
• 1 Bovine Intervention
• 1 Claim Jumper
• 1 Embrace the Unknown
• 1 Jolene, Plundering Pugilist
• 1 Railway Brawler
• 1 Roxanne, Starfall Savant
• 1 Terror of the Peaks

[folding_music]

just looked through historical revisionist wild west wonderland and realized that Leyline Dowser is absolutely Korlessa, Scale Singer's new car!
so many U/G dragons are legends themselves, plus it's not like I'm going to tap Korlessa (or Renari, or Orvar) to do anything as gauche as attack >:3 also it can overturn Fatestitcher or set up Treasure Cruise or whatever

my current attempt at having a Korlessa deck involves a lot of self mill and this looks like really good glue

edit: Doc Aurlock also makes the deck better but I am trying hard not to add any actual cowboy hats to the list

[PrimevalCommander]

I am looking intently for some spicy instants to come from the instant and sorcery deck, but so far all that have been spoiled are sorcerys, artifacts and creatures with flash, but no instants . Hope still remains, but it just seems odd.

The spellslinger precon let me down hard. The spells are 2/3 sorcery and all the instants are reprints.

Desert Bloom on the other hand is exactly the sort of stuff I like to do. I will pick up this deck to play as-is.

[DirkGently]

Imo Thunderclap Drake is the obvious standout from the UR precon. Goblin Electromancer is a widely played card, and drake 1) can be played in non-red decks 2) is easier to cast 3) has flying to peck in chip damage or block in the air 4) can randomly turn your instants/sorceries into game-winning bombs in the late game, especially with partners.

I also think Eris, Roar of the Storm is a cool commander and Smoldering Stagecoach is a solid card.

But yeah the actual new spells are meh.