[Off-Topic] Community Chat Thread

[Moonlighter]

I'm with @Toshi, I love these things. I love a good classic @DirkGently fight. They tend to all have a similar structure, though I'm not 100% sure I can articulate it. Maybe @Ulka and I can write a thesis on the process, if not the content. But this one's good because I happen to enjoy Yojimbo a lot. My take is that the whole arc of the movie is settled when Sanjuro hears about the kid going to join the gang - from that moment he's decided what's he's going to do to the place, if not how. He doesn't care about the money, he's clearly been living as a drifter. He cares about what he thinks is right and wrong. And the single take fight scene to me is just demonstrating the difference between the bloodthirsty and the skilled - the whole, "one strike, one kill" ethos. So it is a bit of a 10-year-old beating up a 6-year-old, which seems to be the point. You have a bunch of 6-year-olds (including hammer guy) pretending to be bigger than they are, and Sanjuro just shows that they're not - not only is that strongly implied, but I think it's a part of the theme of the film.

But the ultimate divide in any classic Dirkfight is that a topic that is subjective somehow gets treated as though it's objective. I mean there are massive arguments about how to play a card game with friends the right way, haha. I don't know how you do it, man, but we all are very good at taking the bait!

[Hermes_]

[DirkGently]

@Moonlighter Of course it's all subjective - what would a debate about something objective look like? I guess you could have a debate about something scientific, i.e. I think this celestial object looks like X whereas you think it looks like Y, which presumably does have a correct objective answer. But even in that case I would say you're really arguing over the interpretation of the evidence at hand, which is subjective.

Only caring about what's right and wrong is, to me, an uninteresting character. Virtually no one is so idealistic that they literally do not care about money at all. If you're responding to my suggested modification of the rescue scene, I think showing that he does value the money, at least a bit, makes him ultimately more virtuous if he gives it all away. As it reads now, he sacrificed nothing because he doesn't seem to value it at all. I find that boring. I want my heroes to have some humanity.

Calling the gang "bloodthirsty" seems way too kind. Most of them make no effort whatsoever to attack Sanjuro. I don't get the impression most of them even really had an interest in it. As soon as they see him they're tripping over themselves to run away. Fine for a comedy, but it completely deflates any dramatic tension. Honestly, it kind of begs the question of why Sanjuro didn't just kill both gangs solo from the start, it doesn't seem like it'd be that hard. I don't think it would be too hard to show them to be weak fighters and cowardly while still behaving in a way that's at least somewhat plausible instead of ridiculous. And again, Sanjuro really doesn't appear to do anything impressive imo. If this is our normal world, based on his fighting I'd assume that any competent soldier could easily best him, which really undercuts the vibe he's supposed to give off and makes it even more ridiculous that everyone is so scared of him. You can suspend disbelief and think "well, fight choreography was bad back then, but we're supposed to see his unimpressive flailing and understand that within the film it's supposed to represent proficient swordsmanship" but personally I'd prefer that the movie do a little more work and actually make me believe it.

[Moonlighter]

@Moonlighter Of course it's all subjective - what would a debate about something objective look like? I guess you could have a debate about something scientific, i.e. I think this celestial object looks like X whereas you think it looks like Y, which presumably does have a correct objective answer. But even in that case I would say you're really arguing over the interpretation of the evidence at hand, which is subjective.

See! How meta. We can highlight the patterns of the Dirkfight even within this. This response is framed in a way that even where you agree it looks like a disagreement. Like you could have said, "Yep!" and that would not have the potential to backfoot someone - such as with the question which invites someone to try and explain what an argument about objective content might be.

Only caring about what's right and wrong is, to me, an uninteresting character. Virtually no one is so idealistic that they literally do not care about money at all. If you're responding to my suggested modification of the rescue scene, I think showing that he does value the money, at least a bit, makes him ultimately more virtuous if he gives it all away. As it reads now, he sacrificed nothing because he doesn't seem to value it at all. I find that boring. I want my heroes to have some humanity.

Great examples again! I've highlighted the balance that often throws people off, I think. I could be wrong, but in my read, you tend to own subjectivity in one sentence, and then in the next you use a statement that indicates a much broader read. IE "boring to me" and then "he has no humanity." The contrast between the two means that I think those that agree with you will read your subjectivity, and those that don't are going to feel like you're taking a hard line, "objective" stance.

... I don't think it would be too hard to show them to be weak fighters and cowardly while still behaving in a way that's at least somewhat plausible instead of ridiculous. And again, Sanjuro really doesn't appear to do anything impressive imo. If this is our normal world, based on his fighting I'd assume that any competent soldier could easily best him, which really undercuts the vibe he's supposed to give off and makes it even more ridiculous that everyone is so scared of him. You can suspend disbelief and think "well, fight choreography was bad back then, but we're supposed to see his unimpressive flailing and understand that within the film it's supposed to represent proficient swordsmanship" but personally I'd prefer that the movie do a little more work and actually make me believe it.

Plausible vs Ridiculous, not framed as an opinion. "Completely deflates dramatic tension" lacks a subjectivity disclaimer, which is likely to raise hackles again. Just some more cool examples of this pattern. I'm sure you'll argue with my analysis, and I don't think this is a particularly deep one, but it seems to be part of the pattern. I don't think your intent is to pick fights, but I am curious about why so many people argue with you when it's most likely to end in frustration. Seems like a sucker's game, and we as forum cohabitants seem to play it with you an awful lot! I mean you just got called the "forum boss!"

I also think that the "You can suspend disbelief" line is going to get people because you're suggesting that they're going to have a thought about a movie they like while also denigrating the movie ("unimpressive flailing").

Edit: Oh, also there's the bit where I said "he cares about right and wrong" and you said "only cares about right and wrong" so you unintentionally escalate my position. Neat stuff.

[Hermes_]

oh gods.....i cast Silence

[TheGildedGoose]

[pokken]

oh gods.....i cast Silence

I put on my robe and wizard hat

[tracyberge]

I was surprised to see the Gem Dragons appear though! Donkey Kong

[RxPhantom]

I've been gone a little while. I lost my dad last week. It's been a strange time. I'm finally going to play some Commander tomorrow for the first time in forever. I hope I haven't been power crept out of the format.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

@Moonlighter I've been marinating on your Dirkfight analysis for a bit and tbh I think you've the nail on the head in a lot of ways. However, I think you're missing something; you describe it as a sucker's game and I would not. It is a very hard game, like NES Ninja Gaiden difficult, but it is winnable. I've seen Dirk concede major points before, even seen him even publicly make peace with 3drinks once. People like BeneTleilax, Goose, and I like to battle Dirk because it's difficult, not despite it.

By far though, the greatest part is that Dirk is almost always down to battle over almost anything, hence the sheer volume of his battles and debates scattered across the forum. Anytime you're feeling feisty, you can go track down Dirk (he's probably posting something strongly worded, controversial, or opinionated somewhere) and go challenge the boss. You'll probably lose unless you bring a party, and even then you might lose, but when you scrape by with a draw or better against arguably the best debater amongst us, it feels great. Even when you get stomped, it's still fun sport in my opinion.

And besides, the spectators love it!

[pokken]

I've been gone a little while. I lost my dad last week. It's been a strange time. I'm finally going to play some Commander tomorrow for the first time in forever. I hope I haven't been power crept out of the format.

Oh man! I am so sorry dude. Getting to the age of losing parents is really rough.

I played for the first time in a while a few weeks ago and my decks were just fine. There're new cards I'm missing, and kind of a flow toward more efficient early game (with a ton of mana rocks ofc) that I need to deal with, but I still took some games down. I'm sure you'll be fine.

[Hermes_]

Captain Kendrick of the Airship "Dagger's edge" of Her majesty's Airship Corps.

[Dunadain]

ai still hasn't figured out hands i see

though, tbf, neither have i XD

[Hermes_]

ai still hasn't figured out hands i see

though, tbf, neither have i XD

next time I post, I'll make sure it's just a hand flipping the bird just for you

[Venedrex]

I'm not sure what's worse, The fact that I am seriously considering starting another cardboard crack hobby, or the fact that I'm being drawn towards not only the most cookie cutter of the factions, but the most cookie cutter sub-faction of that faction. Send help before I turn this thread into an unhinged breakdown of the Space Marine legions and which one I deem worthy enough to be my first foray into Warhammer.

See, the thing is, normally, I'm always the guy who picks the unpopular or weird faction in games because I like to think I'm hipster. I'm the guy who likes playing as the CIS in Star Wars games, Elites in Halo etc etc. But here I am delving into Warhammer and after looking at all the factions on offer, I can't help but be drawn towards the... Ultramarines. They are just so dang LOGICAL. To put it in MTG terms, I am a control player and the Ultramarines are the most faction, other than maybe the Tau.

EDIT:

Well, after some more debate, I finally broke down and just pulled a random number to determine which of the 18 legions would be my starter army. I was prepared to reject the random result if it was something like World Eaters, but hilariously enough it was one of my top picks. The Salamanders. It didn't take much to convince myself to go with the Space Marine faction that respects the regular humans and loves fire.

[RxPhantom]

I've been gone a little while. I lost my dad last week. It's been a strange time. I'm finally going to play some Commander tomorrow for the first time in forever. I hope I haven't been power crept out of the format.

Oh man! I am so sorry dude. Getting to the age of losing parents is really rough.

I played for the first time in a while a few weeks ago and my decks were just fine. There're new cards I'm missing, and kind of a flow toward more efficient early game (with a ton of mana rocks ofc) that I need to deal with, but I still took some games down. I'm sure you'll be fine.

Thanks, pokken. I really do appreciate it. I hit 40 last year and it's only now that I'm starting to see my mom's age. She'll be 70 this year and I've never seen her as an *old* person. It's sobering.

[Dunharrow]

@RxPhantom My condolences

Don't have much to say. It's tough to see loved ones get older. Time really flies by.

[Venedrex]

I've been gone a little while. I lost my dad last week. It's been a strange time. I'm finally going to play some Commander tomorrow for the first time in forever. I hope I haven't been power crept out of the format.

Sorry for your loss.

[5colorsrainbow]

I've been gone a little while. I lost my dad last week. It's been a strange time. I'm finally going to play some Commander tomorrow for the first time in forever. I hope I haven't been power crept out of the format.

My condolences, I know how difficult the loss of a parent can be.

[TheGildedGoose]

I've been gone a little while. I lost my dad last week. It's been a strange time. I'm finally going to play some Commander tomorrow for the first time in forever. I hope I haven't been power crept out of the format.

My dad died about four and a half years ago. It's a sobering experience. Like most people I know I had a complicated relationship with my father, so watching him deteriorate over a few years was extremely difficult. Sorry, man.

[duducrash]

I've been gone a little while. I lost my dad last week. It's been a strange time. I'm finally going to play some Commander tomorrow for the first time in forever. I hope I haven't been power crept out of the format.

I'm sorry to hear that RxPhantom. I'm not close to either of my parents and every scare I've ever had with them was an awful experience, I cannot even imagine how hard it could be. Sending yo all my best wishes

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I've been gone a little while. I lost my dad last week. It's been a strange time. I'm finally going to play some Commander tomorrow for the first time in forever. I hope I haven't been power crept out of the format.

Sincerest condolences, man. I love my folks and it'd wrench my heart to lose either of them. I hope you get through this alright.

[Lifeless]

Very sorry for your loss. I always thought that as I got older and had my own family the idea of my parents passing would become less daunting. Unfortunately it seems like it just becomes more complicated.

[RxPhantom]

Thank you all for your kind words. I really do appreciate it.

[Guardman]

Finally made it back to Mythic.

SPOILER

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As much as I would love to try for Mythic in limited each month, it's really a time sink. Unless you draft at least four to five times a week, its almost impossible to get the games in to reach there. The only reason I even pushed to do it this time is, one it's something I've been meaning to do again for a while but I've been really busy at work, and two, I got three 7 win drafts in a row (with a 6-3 draft right after that) with Shadows over Innistrad Remastered, and was like, well this is as good a time as any.