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TheAmericanSpirit Supreme Dumb Guy
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@TheGildedGoose Easily 7 Samurai. I could watch it or the Magnificent 7 (1960 version ofc) anytime, any place.
Sad to hear you didn't like it, @DirkGently. C'est la vie, there is no accounting for taste. At least you're not one of the sick %$#% with whom I work that won't stop talking about the new Winnie the Pooh horror movie. That's not a matter of accounting, that's a measure of complete absence.
Sad to hear you didn't like it, @DirkGently. C'est la vie, there is no accounting for taste. At least you're not one of the sick %$#% with whom I work that won't stop talking about the new Winnie the Pooh horror movie. That's not a matter of accounting, that's a measure of complete absence.
There's no biscuits and gravy in New Zealand.
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)
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TheGildedGoose HONK HONK
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You talk too much.
I could talk about how Kurosawa was highly influenced by historical Japanese theater, but you seem uninterested in exploring how differing cultural backgrounds inform international directors, so here we are. Again, distinctly American.
EDIT: Let's look at this from another angle. What is more compelling to watch, Yojimbo or Thor: The Dark World? Why?
Are you making the claim that Yojimbo doesn't have a compelling narrative?DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoA cave painting can be anthropologically interesting. It might even emotionally move you, to see a glimpse of the unfathomable eons of human existence. But what you probably aren't going to think is "wow, what a compelling narrative. That stick figure character sure is awesome."
I sincerely doubt you knew this before my post. It likely would've informed your reading of it.... but then you claim that your original point was something you never said? It's relatively common knowledge that Fistful is an unauthorized remake of Yojimbo...
I would appreciate this argument if you named literally one movie at any point in it. Equating Netflix shows to 'cinema' is just... I mean...Don't even come at me with that "you're too American" crap. I don't even live in AmericaLily and I are currently watching an Icelandic Netflix show (trapped) and loving it (2/2 on Icelandic Netflix shows - Katla was even better). Other solid Netflix watches recently have been 1899 (%$#% ending though) (German), Alice in Borderland (Japanese), Cunk on Earth (British), Exception (Japan), Glitch (%$#% ending though) (Australian), Squid Game (South Korea), Hellbound (South Korea)...okay at this point it's starting to feel very "I have a black friend" but idk how else to prove that I enjoy plenty of foreign cinema.
I could talk about how Kurosawa was highly influenced by historical Japanese theater, but you seem uninterested in exploring how differing cultural backgrounds inform international directors, so here we are. Again, distinctly American.
I would advise you to stay in your lane and stick to writing.I'll happily admit to preferring modern cinema though. Modern things aren't default better, obviously, but it makes sense that, as we learn, we're capable of creating better and better things. Anybody think a 1985 Macintosh "holds up"? Anybody want to travel by horse and buggy? Anyone want to eat burnt rat? If Kurosawa had been born in 1980 and was directing movies now, I'm sure they'd be a hell of a lot more compelling than Yojimbo since they'd be built on a much greater depth of collective experience that didn't exist in 1961. When a movie does hold up as long as, I would argue, GBU, it's a bit of a miracle. Yojimbo has not accomplished that miracle imo.
EDIT: Let's look at this from another angle. What is more compelling to watch, Yojimbo or Thor: The Dark World? Why?
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TheGildedGoose HONK HONK
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I guess I wasn't telling the entire truth when I said Kurosawa wasn't an action guy, but Seven Samurai is a compelling counterargument.TheAmericanSpirit wrote: ↑1 year ago@TheGildedGoose Easily 7 Samurai. I could watch it or the Magnificent 7 (1960 version ofc) anytime, any place.
As much as I love the samurai Kurosawa movies, I think Ozu is a little bit more interesting outside of that genre. I feverishly recommend Tokyo Story to everyone I know just getting into international movies, maybe because I'm sadistic.
Hmm. Wife's asleep for another few hours. Dreams or Rashomon? I'm leaning towards Rashomon.
I haven't seen it because I value my eyes, but I do find it interesting from a theoretical standpoint. Radically different interpretations of old, newly copyright-free intellectual properties are an underexplored genre. The only other one I can really think of was Cthulhu (2007) which had some interesting ideas even if the execution left a lot to be desired.At least you're not one of the sick %$#% with whom I work that won't stop talking about the new Winnie the Pooh horror movie. That's not a matter of accounting, that's a measure of complete absence.
Now THAT'S uncalled for. I thought we were cool?
Oh come on, that's just disingenuous, I think comparing old to new movies is usually a waste of time (in the broad concept of whether or not cinema has "improved," comparing two individual films is another matter), but it's always a waste of time if you are cherry picking you're examples.TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoLet's look at this from another angle. What is more compelling to watch, Yojimbo or Thor: The Dark World? Why?
Yes, Yojimbo which, despite all of its faults is one of the better films of its decade, is better than Thor: The Dark World, one of the worst films of its decade. Does this prove... anything? What's your point? Are you really going to tell me "old good, new bad"? If so, respectfully @DirkGently, you'll need to return the "Old man yells at cloud" badge, I've found someone more worthy of it.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.
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TheGildedGoose HONK HONK
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Wait, what? Are you Dirk's muppet account? Am I Dirk's muppet account? Is everyone Ertai*?
It was blunt, but Dirk is out of his element here, as he himself admitted. I'm not going to talk at length about literature because it's out of my depth. I think it's fair to suggest the same for him.
It's actually a genuine question, and my hope is that his answer will be insightful. It's not "old good, new bad" at all, honestly. Dirk's arguments suggest he will choose Thor: The Movie I Forgot About As Soon As the Credits Rolled, and I suspect this will pain him. As I said, sadist.Oh come on, that's just disingenuous, I think comparing old to new movies is usually a waste of time (in the broad concept of whether or not cinema has "improved," comparing two individual films is another matter), but it's always a waste of time if you are cherry picking you're examples.
Yes, Yojimbo which, despite all of its faults is one of the better films of its decade, is better than Thor: The Dark World, one of the worst films of its decade. Does this prove... anything? What's your point? Are you really going to tell me "old good, new bad"? If so, respectfully @DirkGently, you'll need to return the "Old man yells at cloud" badge, I've found someone more worthy of it.
There are plenty of positive things about Thor from a purely technical perspective. Certainly, filmmaking techniques have advanced over the years, and filmmakers today have far more technical options than they did in the 60's. But the gadgets won't save you if you don't have something worth filming.
*This is an old WotC board joke.
It was the collective we, I was just calling you out.TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoWait, what? Are you Dirk's muppet account? Am I Dirk's muppet account? Is everyone Ertai*?
Nah, miss me with that %$#%. Art is for everyone, regardless of their education or experience. I appreciate cinema experts, but if they start telling you that you aren't qualified to talk about movies, or that you should leave movies to the "experts" then I don't think they understand art well enough for their opinion to be any more valuable then mine.TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoIt was blunt, but Dirk is out of his element here, as he himself admitted. I'm not going to talk at length about literature because it's out of my depth. I think it's fair to suggest the same for him.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.
Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
Other: Karrthus, Eris, Emiel, The Blessed, Ruhan, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada
Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!
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The classics of any genre are often %$#% to our eyes, because we've watched/read the stuff that's been influenced by them. Lord of the Rings was groundbreaking at the time, but wouldn't be published today. I wasn't particularly impressed by Dune, because I was already into 40k when I read it so there wasn't anything new conceptually.
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TheGildedGoose HONK HONK
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That's not what I'm suggesting, either. I enjoy talking at length about movies with everyone from casual popcorn eaters to those with far more knowledge than me, a loser who spent his 20s developing a palate for film. He's certainly qualified to talk about his opinions, but if those opinions are half-baked and, frankly, ignorant, then I'm certainly allowed to call them out as such. Freeze peach goes in both directions.Dunadain wrote: ↑1 year agoNah, miss me with that %$#%. Art is for everyone, regardless of their education or experience. I appreciate cinema experts, but if they start telling you that you aren't qualified to talk about movies, or that you should leave movies to the "experts" then I don't think they understand art well enough for their opinion to be any more valuable then mine.
It has to do with approach. You can't on one hand a) acknowledge you have modern sensibilities b) admit you are fairly ignorant of pre-1961 cinema and c) tacitly indicate your cinematic experience is limited by listing commercially successful mainstream American movies as among your favorites and then speak with the utmost confidence about your perspective on film. I will not abide.
EDIT: Hey, I'm at Mythic Been Thanked. I would like to thank all the bots I made to give me thanks.
Yeah, I'm gonna bounce, we are all going in circles now, haha.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.
Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Zask, Phelddagriff
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Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!
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- 5colorsrainbow
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Separate but related note;
there has been the idea of a mtg/western set and that is not been some thing I have been into. I have been working on my own fantastical multiverse writing stuff since I was a tween (and for the record I was ripping off Tsubasa reservoir Chronicles, kingdom hearts and his dark materials before I got into magic lol) and a writing friend who knows about my distaste for the idea of a magic western set challenged me to create a world like that as part of a writing challenge to see if there would be something I might find to like and I ended up really digging what I found.
Partly inspired by a Tumblr post pointing out how the American old west, Meiji restoration and Victorian England we're all around the same time I kind of ended up with this interesting kitchen sink magic-tech "steampunk " Old west setting that's pretty diverse. Historically you had European and European descendent settlers (/colonizers), The native American tribes, Chinese immigrants who had come over two work on the Central pacific railroad, possible Japanese immigrants to tie in samurai (as westerns and samurai films been historically linked I felt it would be cool to have both) and cowpoke methodology and culture has its roots with Mexico and Latin American countries through Spain you end up with this really diverse melting pot of cultures that I want to respectfully try to draw from. As a Mexican American it makes me pretty excited as well since I can add some of my own cultural stuff into it.
Sorry if this came off a little long winded it's just something that I'm really excited about and there's not too many intersections of people who know what I'm referencing LOL
there has been the idea of a mtg/western set and that is not been some thing I have been into. I have been working on my own fantastical multiverse writing stuff since I was a tween (and for the record I was ripping off Tsubasa reservoir Chronicles, kingdom hearts and his dark materials before I got into magic lol) and a writing friend who knows about my distaste for the idea of a magic western set challenged me to create a world like that as part of a writing challenge to see if there would be something I might find to like and I ended up really digging what I found.
Partly inspired by a Tumblr post pointing out how the American old west, Meiji restoration and Victorian England we're all around the same time I kind of ended up with this interesting kitchen sink magic-tech "steampunk " Old west setting that's pretty diverse. Historically you had European and European descendent settlers (/colonizers), The native American tribes, Chinese immigrants who had come over two work on the Central pacific railroad, possible Japanese immigrants to tie in samurai (as westerns and samurai films been historically linked I felt it would be cool to have both) and cowpoke methodology and culture has its roots with Mexico and Latin American countries through Spain you end up with this really diverse melting pot of cultures that I want to respectfully try to draw from. As a Mexican American it makes me pretty excited as well since I can add some of my own cultural stuff into it.
Sorry if this came off a little long winded it's just something that I'm really excited about and there's not too many intersections of people who know what I'm referencing LOL
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
Excuse me, but I do think my Ai-generated art does say something and that is "He was very bored when he came up with the prompt"TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoI happen to feel way, way more emotion when I see those cave paintings than when I see Hermes_'s AI-generated cards, which are, objectively speaking, more complex and interesting to look at. But they don't say anything*.
![Sticking Out Tongue :P](./images/smilies/3-tongue-fb.png)
Also, I'm just now reading The Handmaid's tale.
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Sheldon-"The secret of this format is in not breaking it. "
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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I think mostly we're just less capable of filtering the good from the bad without more hindsight. Trust me, there are plenty of incredibly bad movies from the same era as Yojimbo. They just haven't stuck around. Watch some MST3K some time.
nou
The narrative is kind of hard to mentally separate from the way its told. But I'm sure there's a version of Yojimbo that appeals more to me. Any story can be compelling if it's told well enough.Are you making the claim that Yojimbo doesn't have a compelling narrative?
I knew that fistful was based on Yojimbo when you posted the picture, or I wouldn't have known what to search for. Believe me or not I guess, though it seems a silly thing to lie about. I will say that I didn't realize that Toho had a lawsuit over it until wikipedia told me about it. Litigious %$#%.I sincerely doubt you knew this before my post. It likely would've informed your reading of it.
Pan's Labyrinth, now piss off elitist.I would appreciate this argument if you named literally one movie at any point in it. Equating Netflix shows to 'cinema' is just... I mean...
I find it extremely telling that this is how you want to defend Yojimbo. Learning about what influenced the artist might be an interesting footnote but it does absolutely nothing to improve my viewing experience. Not with film, not with writing, not with anything. Art has to stand on its own. How about you tell me what you actually LIKE about it? What does this movie do for you that other movies don't? That goes for you, @TheAmericanSpirit, @Toshi, @Guardman, and anyone else who's claimed to like this tedious thing. Because if all you have is "well it's historically significant and film critics say its good", then I find that very telling indeed.I could talk about how Kurosawa was highly influenced by historical Japanese theater, but you seem uninterested in exploring how differing cultural backgrounds inform international directors, so here we are. Again, distinctly American.
You've made a lot of movies, have you?I would advise you to stay in your lane and stick to writing.
Haven't seen the latter. I'm not a particular fan of Marvel movies though, if that's how you think you're going to epically destroy me. Honestly a very predictable move, goose. I'm disappointed.EDIT: Let's look at this from another angle. What is more compelling to watch, Yojimbo or Thor: The Dark World? Why?
I would say the same for any piece of literature, and have done. I think classic books typically hold up better than classic cinema for a variety of reasons, but at the end of the day, all the critical wankery is towards the service of creating art that can be enjoyed by the broader public, not just academics. Shakespeare wasn't writing for the critics, he was writing for the cheap seats. For that matter, Yojimbo was a popular movie when it released. We've just learned and changed a lot since then.TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoIt was blunt, but Dirk is out of his element here, as he himself admitted. I'm not going to talk at length about literature because it's out of my depth. I think it's fair to suggest the same for him.
I didn't study literature so I could appreciate old books better. I studied literature so I could understand the techniques involved and how they've evolved, so that I can build upon them. All the literature classes in the universe can't make me enjoy Utopia. Sorry, Thomas Moore.
Bingo.Dragonlover wrote: ↑1 year agoThe classics of any genre are often %$#% to our eyes, because we've watched/read the stuff that's been influenced by them. Lord of the Rings was groundbreaking at the time, but wouldn't be published today. I wasn't particularly impressed by Dune, because I was already into 40k when I read it so there wasn't anything new conceptually.
The only defense you've made of this movie you supposedly love, thus far, is to be dismissive. My argument is invalid because I haven't studied film hard enough. I'm beginning to think the only thing you like about it is that it allows you to sneer at other people on the internet.TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoIt has to do with approach. You can't on one hand a) acknowledge you have modern sensibilities b) admit you are fairly ignorant of pre-1961 cinema and c) tacitly indicate your cinematic experience is limited by listing commercially successful mainstream American movies as among your favorites and then speak with the utmost confidence about your perspective on film. I will not abide.
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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@Hermes_ as someone who just finished a cruise, those drink prices make me want to cry.
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Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
it's around 20 dollars USD in today's pricesDirkGently wrote: ↑1 year ago@Hermes_ as someone who just finished a cruise, those drink prices make me want to cry.
edit: this one came out a lot better with no oddly misshapen face
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The Secret of Commander (EDH)
Sheldon-"The secret of this format is in not breaking it. "
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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I was mostly joking about the prices without inflation adjustment, but $20 for a glass of 80 year old brandy seems pretty amazing tbh, and most of the stuff is in the $5-10 range. Cheapest mixed drink on our boat was $16 (AUD, but still).
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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TheGildedGoose HONK HONK
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Sure, that's fair. This is the subjective part. I like how the stylistic choices influence and enhance the narrative, personally.DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoThe narrative is kind of hard to mentally separate from the way its told. But I'm sure there's a version of Yojimbo that appeals more to me. Any story can be compelling if it's told well enough.
You understand my point, right? There is a massive difference between long form television and a movie. Midnight Mass would never work as a movie because it's too dense and RoboCop would be horrifically boring as a show. They're completely different forms, and neither one is superior to the other.Pan's Labyrinth, now piss off elitist.
Also, Pan's Labyrinth is obviously amazing, but it's still a very popular and commercially successful movie. I'm not suggesting that liking obscure movies is inherently superior to liking commercially successful and popular movies (my favorite movie literally just won Best Picture). Nor am I trying to gatekeep. It's entirely possible you're familiar with the entire European and Asian canon and just prefer commercial stuff. I just find it unlikely that anyone could be that way.
Does it, now? I would argue that it can't. This is a deeper conversation I would like to have in good faith, actually. I have serious thoughts about this.Art has to stand on its own.
Not Yojimbo specifically but Kurosawa generally: the editing and the cinematic storytelling. He had a knack for conveying both emotions and characterization through cuts and framing alone, something most commercial American products lack to this day.How about you tell me what you actually LIKE about it? What does this movie do for you that other movies don't?
As has been said, writing about music is like tapdancing about architecture, so it's better here to show, not tell. Movies are a primarily visual medium, right?
I know this is kinda lazy but i ain't making a YouTube video just to contribute to an argument on the Internet.
More than one, less than ten.You've made a lot of movies, have you?
Replace it with literally any forgettable Hollywood crap that is slick and soulless. Which is more compelling? A snide deflection isn't an answer. The newer movies have more modern production techniques and tighter pacing (to appeal to audiences with short attention spans, naturally). So?Haven't seen the latter. I'm not a particular fan of Marvel movies though, if that's how you think you're going to epically destroy me. Honestly a very predictable move, goose. I'm disappointed.
I think it's one of Kurosawa's middling works, honestly. To be clear, you started this here after I made a couple of dumb jokes. Don't post your opinions if you don't want them challenged.The only defense you've made of this movie you supposedly love, thus far, is to be dismissive. My argument is invalid because I haven't studied film hard enough. I'm beginning to think the only thing you like about it is that it allows you to sneer at other people on the internet.
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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Sure, but they're presumably both influenced by their local culture in similar ways. Ofc globalization has made modern pieces of art likely easier to understand outside of their local culture - which contributes to something like Pan's Labyrinth, and modern Netflix series, being quite accessible.TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoYou understand my point, right? There is a massive difference between long form television and a movie. Midnight Mass would never work as a movie because it's too dense and RoboCop would be horrifically boring as a show. They're completely different forms, and neither one is superior to the other.
I'm not going to pretend I've watched tons of foreign movies because I haven't. I haven't deliberately sought to educate myself on film because I'm happily a layman (I tell a small lie - I did make a project of watching all of studio Ghibli films during the pandemic, as detailed in this very thread). My point with the Netflix examples was that, at least for modern filmmaking, non-American sensibilities are not detrimental to me - at least I don't think they are. I think the bulk of my issues with a movie like Yojimbo are primarily to do with the sensibilities of its time, not its location.Also, Pan's Labyrinth is obviously amazing, but it's still a very popular and commercially successful movie. I'm not suggesting that liking obscure movies is inherently superior to liking commercially successful and popular movies (my favorite movie literally just won Best Picture). Nor am I trying to gatekeep. It's entirely possible you're familiar with the entire European and Asian canon and just prefer commercial stuff. I just find it unlikely that anyone could be that way.
Obviously it's a bit of an oversimplification - a book isn't much good without first the ability to read it. My enjoyment of any piece of art will be massively dictated by my own cultural context, and my context is modern. If I wanted to make a study of it, I could try to understand the cultural context for the audience of Yojimbo and gain an understanding of why it was an effective film for its time. And that might even be interesting (to someone else). It might make me go "hmm, yes, I can now fully understand why this method was so effective at conveying yadda yadda yadda."Does it, now? I would argue that it can't. This is a deeper conversation I would like to have in good faith, actually. I have serious thoughts about this.Art has to stand on its own.
But I'll tell you what it won't do - it won't change my emotional engagement with the film. I want a movie that can make me cry, laugh, cheer. There's an arms race between art and the consumer - artists, learning from their progenitors, add and improve techniques to create a stronger reaction, and consumers becoming used to, and desensitized to, those techniques and needing something that innovates further. In 1961 I'm sure Yojimbo was an emotional thrill ride, but in 2023 it's a snore. You're putting me on a merry-go-round after I've been on the roller coaster - many roller coasters - and you're pointing out how intricately carved all the horses are to convince me I'm having fun.
Those are more of a "how" and I'm looking for more of a "what". Okay, he conveys emotions in a way you like - which emotions, at what points? Which characters/characterizations?Not Yojimbo specifically but Kurosawa generally: the editing and the cinematic storytelling. He had a knack for conveying both emotions and characterization through cuts and framing alone, something most commercial American products lack to this day.
To give some examples from GBU - I really like the way the intensity of the music builds in tandem with the speed of the camera pans as Tuco searches the graveyard, because I think it's really effective at building excitement and tension - emotions which are appropriate for that part of the story. The increasing speed of cuts and closeness of the camera in the final shootout has a similar effect. Ofc the music in general just slaps - I'm sure I could drill down into the why on that, but I think it's pretty self-evident. There's too much great dialogue to choose from - the conversation where Blondie and Tuco haggle over money is both clever and also does a great job of conveying their personalities. I like the setting - most people don't realize the Civil War extended as far as the American West, so it's unique and interesting, and provides lots of great scenery that also conveys the inhospitability of the world of the characters, and the larger forces outside their control. At the end of the day, it's the complex and likeable characters in a compelling story that get me invested and give me an emotional reaction. You can, and should, use filmmaking techniques to help achieve those ends, and I'm sure Leone used many techniques I didn't notice. But the important thing to me isn't HOW I'm made to engage emotionally, it's THAT I'm able to engage emotionally. Whether that's writing, acting, editing, composition, sound, set dressing, costumes, or all of the above.
Yojimbo, despite whatever god-tier techniques were used, didn't engage me emotionally. I didn't really connect with the main character (he's way less of an anti-hero than Eastwood, and less interesting for it imo), and even less so for everyone else. I wasn't invested in the plot because I didn't really care about the town itself - it seems to be 99% thugs and 1% weird old men. The staging, writing, and acting felt artificial and took me out of it too - most egregiously during the fight scenes. At the end of the day, that lack of emotional engagement is why I didn't like it.
Fair enough - unrelated to this conversation, I'm curious in what capacity?More than one, less than ten.
While I'm no fanboy for Marvel, I do find it very trite when snobs trot it out as a condemnation of every movie made in the past 30 years. It's the same boomer energy employed when people scoff at modern music because they don't like Justin Bieber or whatever. If you don't like the most mainstream possible stuff, then maybe try digging around a bit instead of just whinging? There is a depth of film and music being produced today that you couldn't possibly absorb it all without some sort of serious time dilation.Replace it with literally any forgettable Hollywood crap that is slick and soulless. Which is more compelling? A snide deflection isn't an answer. The newer movies have more modern production techniques and tighter pacing (to appeal to audiences with short attention spans, naturally). So?
For practical purposes, I'd say Yojimbo and...let's go with Quantumania (it was the only thing playing and we had nothing better to do at 7PM in Cairns, okay?) are basically equal. I felt nothing for either of their runtime. I was slightly less bored during Quantumania, but for practical purposes neither had any effect on me and memory of both is quickly fading. I think we've already established I didn't enjoy Yojimbo, so I'm not sure what your point is.
Personally I would argue that you started it here by dissing the dollar's trilogy - but I certainly don't mind you challenging my ideas. Arguing on the internet is one of my favorite things, and I am genuinely interested in drilling down to understand what people see in a movie like Yojimbo.I think it's one of Kurosawa's middling works, honestly. To be clear, you started this here after I made a couple of dumb jokes. Don't post your opinions if you don't want them challenged.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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TheGildedGoose HONK HONK
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This is what I was getting at. I think Gen Xers and those younger than them are so immersed in cinematic language because of being raised with TV and movies that we understand it intuitively rather than being forced to learn it actively. I had to unlearn my immature understanding of it to relearn it in a more intricate and intentional way. It's not an insult to suggest that someone doesn't understand cinematic language, particularly if they're not film students and/or Letterboxd losers. Understanding how and why different techniques, from editing to framing and blocking to acting to sound design, affect and inform things such as plot, characterization, tone, and emotion isn't exactly easy. Hell, I'm still not great at it. It took me years to really appreciate Michelangelo Antonioni, Andrei Tarkovsky, and Bela Tarr, and I'm still not sold on Bollywood as a whole. Why are you randomly bursting into song and dance? Did everyone rehearse this in advance? Why are we suddenly breaking the fourth wall? Why are the movies four hours long?DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoI'm not going to pretend I've watched tons of foreign movies because I haven't. I haven't deliberately sought to educate myself on film because I'm happily a layman (I tell a small lie - I did make a project of watching all of studio Ghibli films during the pandemic, as detailed in this very thread). My point with the Netflix examples was that, at least for modern filmmaking, non-American sensibilities are not detrimental to me - at least I don't think they are. I think the bulk of my issues with a movie like Yojimbo are primarily to do with the sensibilities of its time, not its location.
I think it's a blind spot for most people. There's been a homogenization of cinematic language because of America's cultural hegemony as you allude to with globalization, and it's colored your modern sensibilities so much that I think it's easy to dismiss cultural quirks as artifacts of a bygone era because of it. They're a feature, not a bug.
Let's take Kurosawa and traditional Japanese theater as an example.Obviously it's a bit of an oversimplification - a book isn't much good without first the ability to read it. My enjoyment of any piece of art will be massively dictated by my own cultural context, and my context is modern. If I wanted to make a study of it, I could try to understand the cultural context for the audience of Yojimbo and gain an understanding of why it was an effective film for its time. And that might even be interesting (to someone else). It might make me go "hmm, yes, I can now fully understand why this method was so effective at conveying yadda yadda yadda."
But I'll tell you what it won't do - it won't change my emotional engagement with the film. I want a movie that can make me cry, laugh, cheer. There's an arms race between art and the consumer - artists, learning from their progenitors, add and improve techniques to create a stronger reaction, and consumers becoming used to, and desensitized to, those techniques and needing something that innovates further. In 1961 I'm sure Yojimbo was an emotional thrill ride, but in 2023 it's a snore. You're putting me on a merry-go-round after I've been on the roller coaster - many roller coasters - and you're pointing out how intricately carved all the horses are to convince me I'm having fun.
It's easy to dismiss some of the parts of his movies because they seem, well, stilted or lazy to both foreign and modern audiences, but most of those are very intentional stylistic choices inspired by the culture in which he lived to evoke very specific things. Personally, understanding why those choices were made reframed those elements and changed how I felt about them. The cartoonish and bizarre makeup in Ran was offputting until I realized it was inspired by Noh. For a Western analogy, think of the Greek chorus of singers in Little Shop of Horrors, or Sam Elliott's character in The Big Lebowski. Once I realized this, instead of finding it comical, I found the contrast between the serious, somber plot and the metacommentary heightened the overall experience.
Of course, you're free to your opinion. As @TheAmericanSpirit said, there's no accounting for taste. The problem I have is the expression of opinion as objective fact, particularly when you're missing quite a lot of context.
I mean, I ain't got time for that. Presenting you with examples out of context for movies you haven't and will likely never see via text doesn't seem like a very effective method of explaining cinematic language. The Every Frame a Painting Video is a pretty solid general introduction.Okay, he conveys emotions in a way you like - which emotions, at what points? Which characters/characterizations?
Pretty much everything behind the camera. I wrote, directed, and edited them. Granted, it's not like they were ever commercial products, but still, they were produced. It's been over a decade since I've done anything and while I've had lots of ideas and have seriously progressed my command of language, I just don't have the time to devote to a hobby like that.Fair enough - unrelated to this conversation, I'm curious in what capacity?
I'm pretty obsessed with recontextualization and conceptual bricolage. By invoking another work of art you can easily communicate big ideas pretty efficiently if they're used in contrast to their original meaning. Think of it as a Matryoshka doll of nested information.
This is, uh, not only a gross oversimplification but also a straw man. Unless you're generalizing (in which case it's completely irrelevant to this conversation) I never made this claim.While I'm no fanboy for Marvel, I do find it very trite when snobs trot it out as a condemnation of every movie made in the past 30 years. It's the same boomer energy employed when people scoff at modern music because they don't like Justin Bieber or whatever. If you don't like the most mainstream possible stuff, then maybe try digging around a bit instead of just whinging? There is a depth of film and music being produced today that you couldn't possibly absorb it all without some sort of serious time dilation.
Yojimbo is about the destructive nature of capitalism in post-war Japan and the conflict between tradition and progression. Quantumania is about making money for Disney.For practical purposes, I'd say Yojimbo and...let's go with Quantumania (it was the only thing playing and we had nothing better to do at 7PM in Cairns, okay?) are basically equal. I felt nothing for either of their runtime. I was slightly less bored during Quantumania, but for practical purposes neither had any effect on me and memory of both is quickly fading. I think we've already established I didn't enjoy Yojimbo, so I'm not sure what your point is.
You don't say.Personally I would argue that you started it here by dissing the dollar's trilogy - but I certainly don't mind you challenging my ideas. Arguing on the internet is one of my favorite things, and I am genuinely interested in drilling down to understand what people see in a movie like Yojimbo.
As I said, Yojimbo is okay, but Throne of Blood, like the play it's based on, is a damned masterpiece. I would very much like to discuss that one instead.
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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I don't disagree with any of that. If I had the itch to direct a movie I imagine I'd have a %$#% of a lot of learning to do, to achieve the language that I absorb unthinkingly when watching. And I'm not saying that's not a worthwhile pursuit, just as I wouldn't say understanding the value of classic literature isn't a worthwhile pursuit. Especially if your goal is to use that knowledge to create something that builds upon it. But, as with me struggling through Utopia, all the studying in the world can't make me actually emotionally connect with something like Yojimbo.TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoThis is what I was getting at. I think Gen Xers and those younger than them are so immersed in cinematic language because of being raised with TV and movies that we understand it intuitively rather than being forced to learn it actively. I had to unlearn my immature understanding of it to relearn it in a more intricate and intentional way. It's not an insult to suggest that someone doesn't understand cinematic language, particularly if they're not film students and/or Letterboxd losers. Understanding how and why different techniques, from editing to framing and blocking to acting to sound design, affect and inform things such as plot, characterization, tone, and emotion isn't exactly easy. Hell, I'm still not great at it. It took me years to really appreciate Michelangelo Antonioni, Andrei Tarkovsky, and Bela Tarr, and I'm still not sold on Bollywood as a whole. Why are you randomly bursting into song and dance? Did everyone rehearse this in advance? Why are we suddenly breaking the fourth wall? Why are the movies four hours long?
I think it's a blind spot for most people. There's been a homogenization of cinematic language because of America's cultural hegemony as you allude to with globalization, and it's colored your modern sensibilities so much that I think it's easy to dismiss cultural quirks as artifacts of a bygone era because of it. They're a feature, not a bug.
That's all very interesting but it does not change my emotional response to the story one iota.Let's take Kurosawa and traditional Japanese theater as an example.
It's easy to dismiss some of the parts of his movies because they seem, well, stilted or lazy to both foreign and modern audiences, but most of those are very intentional stylistic choices inspired by the culture in which he lived to evoke very specific things. Personally, understanding why those choices were made reframed those elements and changed how I felt about them. The cartoonish and bizarre makeup in Ran was offputting until I realized it was inspired by Noh. For a Western analogy, think of the Greek chorus of singers in Little Shop of Horrors, or Sam Elliott's character in The Big Lebowski. Once I realized this, instead of finding it comical, I found the contrast between the serious, somber plot and the metacommentary heightened the overall experience.
Looking back over my previous posts, all of them are pretty thoroughly drenched in "imos". But I don't really think that should even be necessary when talking about evaluations of quality tbh. If I say "Yojimbo is boring" is that not clearly a description of my subjective personal opinion? Film critics don't bother to caveat every judgment with an "imo" because it's tedious to read, and unnecessary. Everyone reading understands that it's implied.The problem I have is the expression of opinion as objective fact, particularly when you're missing quite a lot of context.
I already watched it and it said basically what I expected. He's got great techniques etc etc. Cool, now tell me what those techniques actually DID for you, because I watched the same movie and got nothing.I mean, I ain't got time for that. Presenting you with examples out of context for movies you haven't and will likely never see via text doesn't seem like a very effective method of explaining cinematic language. The Every Frame a Painting Video is a pretty solid general introduction.
I had no problem pulling out a reasonable list of examples from GBU, and I could do the same for plenty of movies that I've enjoyed over the years. Maybe not on the level of specific editing techniques, but I could at least remember liking characters, plot beats, etc. Seems like it'd take a fraction of the time we've already spent on this learned discussion/slap fight.
Reasonably rad. Did you go through film school or self taught?Pretty much everything behind the camera. I wrote, directed, and edited them. Granted, it's not like they were ever commercial products, but still, they were produced. It's been over a decade since I've done anything and while I've had lots of ideas and have seriously progressed my command of language, I just don't have the time to devote to a hobby like that.
I'm pretty obsessed with recontextualization and conceptual bricolage. By invoking another work of art you can easily communicate big ideas pretty efficiently if they're used in contrast to their original meaning. Think of it as a Matryoshka doll of nested information.
Mostly to explain why I find your gotcha question of "what's better, a classic you already said you disliked, versus aThis is, uh, not only a gross oversimplification but also a straw man. Unless you're generalizing (in which case it's completely irrelevant to this conversation) I never made this claim.
![Evil :evil:](./images/smilies/41-evil-fb.png)
![Evil :evil:](./images/smilies/41-evil-fb.png)
I am firmly of the belief that the story itself is the tentpole around which everything else relies. You can have the richest themes in the universe but if the story can't stand on its own I do not care.Yojimbo is about the destructive nature of capitalism in post-war Japan and the conflict between tradition and progression. Quantumania is about making money for Disney.
But if I was to play devil's/marvel's (but I repeat myself
![Evil :evil:](./images/smilies/41-evil-fb.png)
I mean, you came out swinging with "Don't post your opinions if you don't want them challenged." If you knew I loved having my opinions challenged then why did you bother saying that as though it was an own?You don't say.
Well then you should have said that before I wasted 110 minutes and $3.50 of my hard-earned cash on Yojimbo thanks to y'all talking it up. Besides, what if I like Throne of Blood? Then we'd have nothing to talk aboutAs I said, Yojimbo is okay, but Throne of Blood, like the play it's based on, is a damned masterpiece. I would very much like to discuss that one instead.
![Ugh :x](./images/smilies/17-ugh-fb.png)
I will say I'm sad that @TheAmericanSpirit, @Toshi, and @Guardman aren't chiming in more. While it's interesting to get the perspective of someone who studies film, I'm a lot more curious about the perspectives of fellow laymen who like the film, because that's a lot more confusing to me.
Perm Decks
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Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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TheAmericanSpirit Supreme Dumb Guy
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@DirkGently I plan to give you the thorough examination of my enjoyment, fret not. It has been like 7-8 years since I've seen it last and I inhale a lot of smoke, so I'm waiting til the weekend to snag it from the library and refresh my memory. Right now all I can conjure up is a vague good feeling, a memory of satisfaction, and some specific shots, but those a whole testimony do not make. (Gonna see if they have throne of blood and tokyo story too)
Anyone into Italian movies? Il Caimano was very good, albeit a little confusing at times.
Also, am I still a layman if I have a Media Production degree? I worked on a %$#% ton of short films. I even won the local equivalent of a Razzie
once because my movie was just so notoriously bad
Anyone into Italian movies? Il Caimano was very good, albeit a little confusing at times.
Also, am I still a layman if I have a Media Production degree? I worked on a %$#% ton of short films. I even won the local equivalent of a Razzie
once because my movie was just so notoriously bad
There's no biscuits and gravy in New Zealand.
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
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lmao %$#%$#% it I'm the least educated person here and I hate it. Def curious what this movie of yours was. You aren't Neil Breen, are you? xDTheAmericanSpirit wrote: ↑1 year ago@DirkGently I plan to give you the thorough examination of my enjoyment, fret not. It has been like 7-8 years since I've seen it last and I inhale a lot of smoke, so I'm waiting til the weekend to snag it from the library and refresh my memory. Right now all I can conjure up is a vague good feeling, a memory of satisfaction, and some specific shots, but those a whole testimony do not make. (Gonna see if they have throne of blood and tokyo story too)
Anyone into Italian movies? Il Caimano was very good, albeit a little confusing at times.
Also, am I still a layman if I have a Media Production degree? I worked on a %$#% ton of short films. I even won the local equivalent of a Razzie
once because my movie was just so notoriously bad
I do appreciate and am curious to hear what you've got on Yojimbo.
I'm skittish about spending a lot of money renting stuff off amazon (hence my whinging about 3 fiddy on Yojimbo) but I'm reasonably down to check stuff out if it's been YouTube'd (looks like "M" is on there, which is apparently also a classic. And I vaguely remember my dad showing me Peter Lorre movies when I was a kid. So I might check that out. Other suggestions considered). Then if I decide I hate it I can nope out without feeling like I'm pissing money down the drain. Just found out we need to replace our transmission...so I'm feeling even more tight-fisted than usual =/
edit: looks like Playtime is on there as well, I think I've heard good things about that one too?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Wayta - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Eris - Magda - Ghired2 - Xander - Me - Slogurk - Gilraen - Shelob2 - Kellan1 - Leori - Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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TheAmericanSpirit Supreme Dumb Guy
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@DirkGently I am not Neil Breen, no sir. That guy's a legend. Nah, my film was about the progression from inaminate to consciousness to self-awareness to spiritual awakening to nihilism and back to inanimate, as shown through the perspective of a Russet potato. Someday I will remake it and I'll cut the 2 minute flight sequence when the spud imagines life as a bird.
There's no biscuits and gravy in New Zealand.
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)
I might be wrong but it looks like yojimbo is on the archive
![Sticking Out Tongue :P](./images/smilies/3-tongue-fb.png)