Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[NZB2323]

I'm not a guy who buys boxes anymore, but there are singles in this set I'm excited about.

Shadow-Rite Priest and Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim for Tymna the Weaver/Ravos, Soultender cleric tribal.

Rona's Vortex, Rona, Sheoldred's Faithful, Ertai Resurrected, and Activated Sleeper for Nymris, Oona's Trickster draw-go.

Defiler of Instinct for Morophon, the Boundless infinite Kavu.

Pixie Illusionist for Edric, Spymaster of Trest commons only.

[CommanderMaster999]

I really hope Timeless Lotus is bulk I have some many 5 color decks

Because I'm already hearing standard just ruined every hope I had since there's already speculation with Teferi, Who Slows the Sunset

[Igzex]

Braids, Arisen Nightmare I have to build because not banned version of my mtg waifu, Cut Down is something I want to get a bunch of, but besides that the only thing this set's really done for me is make it even harder to get around to updating my Ur-Dragon. Man 99 card syndrome is rough.

[DirkGently]

That's a good point, I wonder if the BaaC crowd will settle down a bit now that there's a playable version of braids. I guess there's still the rofellos stans to satisfy.

[kirkusjones]

That's a good point, I wonder if the BaaC crowd will settle down a bit now that there's a playable version of braids. I guess there's still the rofellos stans to satisfy.

[Serenade]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2022-08-26

I missed it last week, but the Xira, the Golden Sting insect token is amazing.

[UnfulfilledDesires]

I'm excited about Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator (stained glass) to use with Gyruda, Doom of Depths (as Gigan), & for Tor Wauki the Younger with Obosh, the Preypiercer. I have a set of decks for the eight companions allowed in the format & I've struggled with those two. Vohar's looting ability makes it easy to get Gyruda into the yard for reanimation. Obosh synergizes well with Wauki's triggered ability.

[Serenade]

This set has some cards I am going to hate seeing everywhere. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there will be a lot of Ertai Resurrected and The Phasing of Zhalfir.


A card I've been overthinking from this set is Shadow Prophecy. I'm not sure it's an upgrade for anyone over Read the Bones for the 3cmc draw spell in black (and Ransack the Lab probably gets you to the same place for cheaper), but you can't deny the instant speed being nice!

[RxPhantom]

General Ferrous Rokiric has become one of my favorite decks, and while it still has plenty of mono-colored spells, my long-term goal is the deck's full Boros-ification. It may seem crazy, but Tori D'Avenant, Fury Rider is going to replace Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.

[Venedrex]

Well well well.

Since no one else has said anything, I guess I'll start the discussion about the new UNIVERSES BEYOND *BOOMING ANNOUNCER VOICE* Warhammer (40,000, don't you dare call it 40k you plebe, according to Games Workshop).

So far, I'm liking what I'm seeing, with one exception, that I mentioned previously. Most of the cards seem to be of average power level which I appreciate. Except the Necrons, which seem to be in the haha dumpster tier power level. The second commander option Imotekh the Stormlord for the Necron deck seems pretty decent, but nothing insane, and Szarekh, the Silent King just feels like awful design.

On a more positive note, I'm liking some of the cards from the Tyranid deck. Magus Lucea Kane seems to be 10/10 flavor, slowly turning your good humans folk into tyrandids with counters over time, and then helping fuel the invasion she summoned with mana/biomass. So that's cool. The esper and grixis backups also seem fine and dandy if you like that sort of thing.

Overall, 7/10 so far, with the -3 being for the mono colored Necrons getting absolutely shafted so far. I mean, I just can't understand how you design four commanders, look at the necron compared to the others and go, yeah this guy is just as good as the others. I mean, I think The Peregrine Dynamo is almost better than the Silent King. I don't know, I just hate when Wizard's makes cycles and then goes, oops one of the members is hot garbage because we forgot what makes cards good. I mean, the sheer amount of tweaks that could have been made is mind-blowing.

Mill six cards, 4/4 instead of 3/4, flying AND menace, at end step, return creature or vehicle to BATTLEFIELD. How in the name of common sense did no one catch the fact the big bad of the Necrons is a pile of garbage. Was he too op in the pod? OH HELP I'M getting one's mana's worth of an effect on turn five when I puts my commander into danger! ITS TOO POWERFUL! Why did it have to be an attack trigger? Why did he have to cost 4 mana? Can I see the design notes on THIS card please wizards.

[Mookie]

40k cards look sweet so far, although the fact that half of the previewed cards have been tricolor means they're a bit tricky to slot into existing decks. Still, most of them look reasonable so far. I will call out Marneus Calgar as the one potentially problematic commander though, if only based on how 'do X, draw a card' commanders have been in the past. Token synergies can pull in some interesting directions, at least.

...of the previewed cards, I'm actually happiest about Noise Marine as another cascaaaaade option.

[toctheyounger]

40k cards look sweet so far, although the fact that half of the previewed cards have been tricolor means they're a bit tricky to slot into existing decks. Still, most of them look reasonable so far. I will call out Marneus Calgar as the one potentially problematic commander though, if only based on how 'do X, draw a card' commanders have been in the past. Token synergies can pull in some interesting directions, at least.

...of the previewed cards, I'm actually happiest about Noise Marine as another cascaaaaade option.

Yeah, super easy to break. Monolith/Rings, draw deck, win. If he at least tapped for his second ability itd be a lot harder.

[DirkGently]

Marneus looks way stronger than any of the face commanders to me. The token producing ability is whatever, I guess it provides a win with infinite mana, but drawing a card every time you tap Thraben Doomsayer or play a land with Field of the Dead seems strong, and the body is pretty on-par too. After all the limiters on DMU legends I'm surprised it isn't capped at once per turn or something. Not the sort of thing I'm interested in, though.

Do we know if we're getting non-UB versions of these cards eventually?

[Wallycaine]

Marneus looks way stronger than any of the face commanders to me. The token producing ability is whatever, I guess it provides a win with infinite mana, but drawing a card every time you tap Thraben Doomsayer or play a land with Field of the Dead seems strong, and the body is pretty on-par too. After all the limiters on DMU legends I'm surprised it isn't capped at once per turn or something. Not the sort of thing I'm interested in, though.

Do we know if we're getting non-UB versions of these cards eventually?

There is no definitive plans to make non-UB versions of these cards. They've repeatedly talked about how they have the ability to do so, especially if a particular card is popular, but stuff like Noise Marine is unlikely to ever see a non-UB version.

[Ruiner]

I am psyched. Started playing 40k in 2nd edition, haven't played since early 4th edition, but I've always liked the setting. Old One Eye looks fun for my Emiel the Blessed deck, so my unicorn can summon the swarm.

I hope these do well enough to get another round because I reaaaally want some Eldar.

[plushpenguin]

Imotekh is actually pretty busted in eggs builds, but you need them to have black in it.

[Jemolk]

So, the Grixis demon (Be'lakor, the Dark Master) seems strong for my Grixis demon tribal deck. I have no interest in mixing Magic flavor with 40k flavor, but if it ever gets a Magic-flavored variant, I might consider running it in the 99. It's never replacing my Legends copy of Sol'kanar the Swamp King|Legends as the commander, though. Not a chance.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I think the great equalizer between the 40k decks is probably the stock manabases. 3 of the decks are going be working their way through the WotC Precon Standard Fare Nonbasics, whereas the necron deck literally needs swamps and little else. I imagine that warped playtesting during deaign quite a bit, and probably resulted in the great Necron Nerfing we seem to see today.

[Dunharrow]

So, the Grixis demon (Be'lakor, the Dark Master) seems strong for my Grixis demon tribal deck. I have no interest in mixing Magic flavor with 40k flavor, but if it ever gets a Magic-flavored variant, I might consider running it in the 99. It's never replacing my Legends copy of Sol'kanar the Swamp King|Legends as the commander, though. Not a chance.

Cool card
The thing is, if people don't buy this product then WOTC will have no incentive to put these cards in Set Boosters.
But, maybe it will happen.

[Mookie]

Following up with more 40k cards. I'll call out that a lot of the Tyranid deck cards look like they'll work nicely in Animar, Soul of Elements - Ravenous works well with cost reduction, and Animar generally appreciates +1/+1 counters.

• I'm a fan of Sporocyst and, to a lesser extend, Atalan Jackal and Purestrain Genestealer. Is Sporocyst the first 'XX: ramp X times' cards? I guess Kamahl's Druidic Vow exists, but it's a lot less consistent (and Collective Voyage has a pretty significant downside). Not as efficient as sorcery-based ramp, and you can't flicker / clone / recur it like Farhaven Elf, but a very nice option for decks that really care about creatures.
• Malanthrope also looks pretty solid. Green has a few other options for grave hate, but this looks particularly efficient.
• Exocrine is nice as a flexible creature-based board wipe.
• Biophagus is a sweet mana dork that contributes a bit of extra value.
• Ghyrson Starn, Kelermorph looks quite strong. At the very least, it functions as a ur Torbran, Thane of Red Fell, turning all your 1-damage pings into Lightning Bolts. Staff of Nin? Prodigal Pyromancer / Prodigal Sorcerer? Lots of options.
• Toxicrene is a potent piece of land hate on a creature. You won't lock people out like Blood Moon will, but if you're concerned about utility lands, it looks solid. Or just use it as fixing, I suppose.

[Venedrex]

As Mookie stated, we now have seen the whole of the Swarm, and I gotta say, I'm impressed. Fantastic stuff, and this is coming from someone who was/is skeptical of UB as a whole.

I love the fact that the Gene-Stealer Cult is in charge of ramp, setting up for the heavier hitters to come down later, just like they do in the lore.

The cards have great art, fun mechanics, and don't seem to be too overpowered so far. The reprints are awesome flavor wise as well, with Hardened Scales and Hull Breach being super fun fits with the new art. I love it.

10/10 for this deck. My only quibble is I wish they could have found room for one Tyranid with Devour since it seems spot on, but I suppose Ravenous took that role. Again, I really appreciate that there are so many ramp creatures in the deck to prevent players from just having a bunch of bombs in their hand but not enough mana to cast them, as can happen when you have a deck with lots of expensive creatures.

Dang, now I really want to preorder these...

[DirkGently]

In general the deck looks fine to play with or against as a single unit, but I don't like the idea of them integrating into magic for reasons I've already stated ad nauseum. I'm sure nobody needed me to reiterate, but I won't be acquiring any of these cards, and I hope all of them are terrible and have no impact on the format, and I hope wotc sells zero copies and cancels all UB forever. Also I'd like a pony.

Cards I'm most annoyed by today are Haruspex (takes a 1-word-name, looks broadly strong), The Red Terror (looks somewhat interesting to build), Biophagus (looks broadly useful), and Ghyrson Starn, Kelermorph (has the stupidest name in existence, looks fun to build though probably very narrow).

Clamavus makes me laugh because (1) clam and (2) I like to imagine that prior to now, +1/+1 counters had no intrinsic effect and this guy rectifies that.

The thing is, if people don't buy this product then WOTC will have no incentive to put these cards in Set Boosters.

Not sure why that would be the case. Their motivation to include them in set boosters depends entirely on the demand for the alternate versions, which is likely to be higher if people abstain from these decks for flavor reasons. Really, they're most motivated to make a non-UB version if tons of people complain about UB and don't buy them, but loudly complain about wanting the mechanical cards.

That said, for the vast majority of these I'm not sure how they could be reprinted. Tyranid Harridan shows that the creature type "Tyranid" is a relevant type, and presumably the IP of games workshop. Even if they had permission to put the tyranid cards into the magic IP, they'd need to choose between:

-they all have the type "tyranid" randomly tacked on while looking like some other unrelated thing
-they look basically the same as the UB versions so there's no real point
-they change the type to some other type, causing tons of complications and errata checking whenever cards in and out of UB are mixed together

Be'lakor is presumably good to go, though.

[Mookie]

-they change the type to some other type, causing tons of complications and errata checking whenever cards in and out of UB are mixed together

From Maro's blog:

If you were to print a magic version of one of the Warhammer 40k cards, it'll have to keep its typeline right? Does that mean magic will have its own "definition" of Tyranid/Astarte/Necron if needed?


If it ever came to this, here's our current thinking:

We would create a brand new creature type which would be swapped one for one with that IP-centric creature type. For example, all uses of <blah> in this Universes Beyond product will be <unique new creature type> if done in a Magic version.

The <IP name> and <unique new creature type> would be one for one in the rules much like the names of the Godzilla skinned cards.

Anyway, I don't mind these UB cards that much, since I think they're actually pretty well done (although it definitely helps that I'm already a fan of 40k stuff). I probably won't buy any full decks, but might pick up a few singles.

[Venedrex]

I just want to grab these four,
because I saw them in the store,
and I think they'll be a good score,
to play with friends and celebrate the lore

But really, I just want to get them, make zero changes, and just keep them to play with groups of 4 as a pseudo board game rather than altering them. I don't really fancy putting singles into normal decks, or vice-versa, but I really like having a self-contained dome of Warhammer decks to play with friends.

[DirkGently]

@Mookie eesh, I figured that was the least likely solution given the mess it'd make when combining things from UB and UW. Like imagine 10 years from now, someone with the UW version of Haruspex casts Control Magic on Tyranid Harridan, how the hell are you going to know that they interact? But I guess it's probably the solution I'd like the most since I'd rather not see any IP pollution on the version of these cards I eventually might own. Well, the version I'd prefer most is that they gave Tyranids some already-existent typing like "beast", and/or avoided anything caring about the types. Seems like most of the cards care about counters rather than types anyway, idk why they switched it up for only 1 card (so far).