Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[BeneTleilax]

This was cleave, right? As mentioned in that article?

That implementation (removing sections of text) became cleave. I just wonder if they've still used the concept for the Brokers.

[CommanderMaster999]

Nice glad to see the triomes are being completed

Got the wedges now I can get shard ones

Anyway I want to remind of this big time

They have cycling so that new Containment Construct is already gonna be put to the test with cycling cards since it's a mechanic in new capenna

that means

• Anything with cycling not reprinted to oblivion
• Cards that trigger from cycling (itself or in play)
• New cards exclusively from Gavi, Nest Warden

Might get a tiny hype spike

Only those 5 lands have cycling per Maro. It is not showing up on any other cards.

Found out a little bit ago a hair suprising but very nice they did it just to complete a cycle

Now to convince them to do the same for the battle/tango lands then after all these years we will have budget alternative to shockland

[folding_music]

those new triomes have pretty dodgy names playwise. The winners are Lounge and HQ cos that's clearly what yr gonna announce when you play them. "Ziatora's Proving Ground" is the definite short end of the stick lol. i thought they'd have given smoother names to cards that'll clearly be casual & standard staples for a long time

[Serenade]

Definitely not gonna learn alternate shard names for a one-set plane. "Esper Triome" and friends they will be!

[Cyberium]

Definitely not gonna learn alternate shard names for a one-set plane. "Esper Triome" and friends they will be!

Or, "I search for a tricycle and put it into play."

[Gashnaw]

Nice glad to see the triomes are being completed

Got the wedges now I can get shard ones

Anyway I want to remind of this big time

They have cycling so that new Containment Construct is already gonna be put to the test with cycling cards since it's a mechanic in new capenna

that means

• Anything with cycling not reprinted to oblivion
• Cards that trigger from cycling (itself or in play)
• New cards exclusively from Gavi, Nest Warden

Might get a tiny hype spike

5 cards is not a lot. Really Only the triomes will.have cycling. It is ot a mechanic for new capanna

[Mookie]

Before we get too distracted by SNC spoilers, we have a few Commander Legends 2: Battle for Baldur's Gate spoilers. Lightning Bolt and Fireball aren't that exciting from an EDH perspective, but Sea of Clouds and the other members of its cycle are quite nice.

As for new stuff...

• Minsc and Boo, Timeless Heroes is somewhat interesting, given that we already got Minsc, Beloved Ranger - I would expect them to print new D&D characters instead of reusing ones they already printed. Card itself seems fine though. Obviously better if you want to lean into hamster tribal.
• Ancient Brass Dragon is a big and splashy, 5BB evasive creature with a trigger if it ever gets to attack. Is it able to compete with the format's trend towards immediate value and ETB effects? Probably not, but it does look fun.
• Elder Brain is a big and splashy, 5BB evasive creature with a trigger if it ever gets to attack. Is it able to compete with the format's trend towards immediate value and ETB effects? Probably not, but it does look fun.
• Wand of Wonder gives me Chaos Wand vibes. Getting a selection of multiple options makes it significantly more flexible - a big problem with Chaos Wand was getting a spell that is irrelevant for the current situation, which is less likely when you have options.

[5colorsrainbow]

Also of note Blake said "there will be no new partners in the set or decks".

[Rumpy5897]

Recently Gavin did a video about pushing high-MV commanders. While the subject was more Stinging Study and the like, he briefly hinted at consciously saucing up the power level of high-cost legends, putting Beledros Witherbloom on screen. In my opinion we don't need more stuff that needs to die the split second it comes out.

As such, the pair of lumbering 7MV oafs actually makes me happy. It's nice that they need to go into the red zone to do their thing. That said, CMR was already rather benign in terms of overall power, minus a few blatantly shoehorned in chase cards. As such, I'm not quite holding my breath this is a reevaluation of how they approach things. The oafs needing to go into the red zone also seems like a conscious improvement on CMR's tendency to devolve into stalemates. I don't remember either of the Conspiracy sets feeling as sloggy, and those were very happy to incentivise perpetual swinging.

However, the fact there are no new partners coming is a major bummer to me. Ever since the set got announced I was giddy about the perspective. After all, it was such a slam dunk solution last time, it's a no-brainer that they'll do it again. Surprise! This sapped the majority of my interest in the set. It's possible they're going to do some sort of "friends forever" thing, but it's not quite the same that way. What if a new "friends forever" legend would create an awesome pairing with something from the original CMR?

[5colorsrainbow]

However, the fact there are no new partners coming is a major bummer to me. Ever since the set got announced I was giddy about the perspective. After all, it was such a slam dunk solution last time, it's a no-brainer that they'll do it again. Surprise! This sapped the majority of my interest in the set. It's possible they're going to do some sort of "friends forever" thing, but it's not quite the same that way. What if a new "friends forever" legend would create an awesome pairing with something from the original CMR?

My impression was that they might just reprint the partners they already have vs making new ones. That said Blake said something that while prismatic piper isn't in the set something else will be taking over the role it filled last time of commander easing so who knows.

EDIT: I'm not into running crossover cards as commanders but Minsc and Boo seems good for the Hal and Alenna deck I've been waning to build.

[folding_music]

maybe they've got more control over the draft pack distribution this time and there'll be more guaranteed legends in 'em! don't wanna see more Partner cards in particular, a lot of those six-cost ones turned out really depressing :)))))))

i hope the prices on this set are reasonable, I already remember the CMR boosters being slightly more expensive than a standard pack

[DirkGently]

Why does boo make a token of itself? Surely the name of the card should just be minsc. It's not like flip-Nissa is called "nissa and ashaya".

I wonder how the format will work without partner. Perhaps there's some kind of "this commander has an extra color of your choice" thing, like the thriving lands?

[Gashnaw]

Ancient brass dragon

Misread the card at first. I thought it was return any number with X or less. Not total x or less.

[ISBPathfinder]

Ancient brass dragon

Misread the card at first. I thought it was return any number with X or less. Not total x or less.

Even though its effect is strong I think its going to have a lot of similar issues as Sheoldred, Whispering One in that the expected outcome is for it to be dead by the next turn. The upside of the dragon I guess is that if you can haste it, its ability doesn't take a mana input to do the rez so speeding it to combat does help. That unfortunately is still mostly an equipment thing though for black but its possible that a red pickup color could also help him a bit.

I just think there are a lot of slow derpy value engines at the top end and without a solid expectancy of flash or haste I am not that impressed by it.

[Serenade]

I can justify a 2cmc charm and a 3cmc command, but I can't get behind a 3cmc charm. I always feel like I am getting ripped off. It's never enough versatility or not enough oomph [for this format] for a prohibitive cost.

[Sinis]

Recently Gavin did a video about pushing high-MV commanders. While the subject was more Stinging Study and the like, he briefly hinted at consciously saucing up the power level of high-cost legends, putting Beledros Witherbloom on screen. In my opinion we don't need more stuff that needs to die the split second it comes out.

Man, I hope so. Some (most?) of the Visions of Duplicity cycle were not especially hot (I will allow that some of them were merely 'okay'). Stinging Study is great and all, though there is a useful ceiling for it; I would struggle to play it in something like The Ur-Dragon. Imposing Grandeur suffers from being symmetric, though, I suppose right now it's not terrible because high-cost commanders are not especially in vogue.

Part of the problem with Stinging Study, though, is that if you have your commander on the battlefield and someone bounces it, you end up with nothing. The Visions cycle dodges that because by the time people can respond, costs are paid, but if this templating continues, you end up with real duds unless people are leveraging them with their commanders in the command zone.

However, the fact there are no new partners coming is a major bummer to me. Ever since the set got announced I was giddy about the perspective.

Same, though, I suppose we have enough of them. For now. I really like the mix-and-match potential, and while I see some people play the same combinations, I find that my partner pairings often aren't played by others. Kydele/Eligeth, later Kydele/Esior was great. I played Tymna/Sidar Kondo Shadowborn Apostles for a while. There are so many interesting combinations, and because of the huge breadth of them, I feel like if you just pick two, you could be treading ground that few other people have.

Second, I kinda wanted to stick it to people who keep saying that Partner sans With is "broken" or "a problem" with a signal that it's a new normal and that it's not going away, and that no, no one is going to ban Thrasios.

[tstorm823]

I wish Cabaretti Charm had haste in there somewhere. It'd be fun to copy the spell like 40 times to make an army, pump it up, and clear problem creatures in one neat little package, but summoning sickness is in my way.

[Mr_Webman]

I can justify a 2cmc charm and a 3cmc command, but I can't get behind a 3cmc charm. I always feel like I am getting ripped off. It's never enough versatility or not enough oomph [for this format] for a prohibitive cost.

Agreed; I cut Bant Charm from my Derevi list a long time ago specifically for this reason. 3 mana can get you much more now than it used to.

[NZB2323]

I can justify a 2cmc charm and a 3cmc command, but I can't get behind a 3cmc charm. I always feel like I am getting ripped off. It's never enough versatility or not enough oomph [for this format] for a prohibitive cost.

Agreed; I cut Bant Charm from my Derevi list a long time ago specifically for this reason. 3 mana can get you much more now than it used to.

Maybe Esper players will tell me differently, but I've always felt that Esper Charm is the best charm and worth running.

Cabaretti Charm seems like it would be good in Rith, the Awakener. For Obscura Charm and Maestros Charm it depends how valuable the first mode is in your deck.

I have 3 Mardu decks though and have never considered running Mardu Charm in any of them.

[Dunharrow]

The thing is, in this format, when you are playing 3 colors you have so many amazing cards to choose from you just don't play charms.

[TheGildedGoose]

I emphatically disagree with all of you about the value of charms. Most aren't very good, sure, but that's true of most cycles. Of the current 3 color 3mv charms, Bant Charm, Crosis's Charm, and Sultai Charm are all very good and I wouldn't fault anyone for running them in those colors in a control deck. I touched on this in Dirk's Phelddagrif thread talking about the upcoming Brokers Charm, but the modality charms offer lend themselves towards control strategies since those tend to be the most flexible. As such, the blue charms tend to be the best, and in those I value board control, counter magic, and card selection, in that order. Other modes tend to get ignored for being useless. The virtual card advantage that charms offer at the expense of tempo is just so, so good for a lot of EDH decks, and I think the average deck would be better if it included more MDFCs, charms, and commands.

As for the new charms, so far they seem pushed for constructed 60 card formats. I'm impressed so far, especially with Obscura Charm, but nothing great for EDH yet.

[NZB2323]

I emphatically disagree with all of you about the value of charms. Most aren't very good, sure, but that's true of most cycles. Of the current 3 color 3mv charms, Bant Charm, Crosis's Charm, and Sultai Charm are all very good and I wouldn't fault anyone for running them in those colors in a control deck. I touched on this in Dirk's Phelddagrif thread talking about the upcoming Brokers Charm, but the modality charms offer lend themselves towards control strategies since those tend to be the most flexible. As such, the blue charms tend to be the best, and in those I value board control, counter magic, and card selection, in that order. Other modes tend to get ignored for being useless. The virtual card advantage that charms offer at the expense of tempo is just so, so good for a lot of EDH decks, and I think the average deck would be better if it included more MDFCs, charms, and commands.

As for the new charms, so far they seem pushed for constructed 60 card formats. I'm impressed so far, especially with Obscura Charm, but nothing great for EDH yet.

Or the black ones. IMHO Golgari Charm, Rakdos Charm, and Abzan Charm are 3 of the best charms.

[Mookie]

IMO, charms that see play tend to fall into one of two camps: either they have three usable modes (ex: Rakdos Charm, Golgari Charm, Archmage's Charm), or they have one mode worth playing by itself (ex: Boros Charm). In the former case, you're willing to pay a little extra for the flexibility, while in the latter, the flexibility is less relevant because you're using the same mode almost every time. I think that charms with two good-but-overpriced modes and one weak mode usually aren't worth playing - you're paying extra for the good modes, but not getting that much extra flexibility. I would generally prefer to just run a more efficient version of one of the good modes - particularly with access to three colors, it isn't hard to find something better.

Anyway, Maestros Charm looks solid, at least for my Kess deck. Forbidden Alchemy doesn't quite make the cut, but digging an extra card deep makes it worth consideration. The removal mode is a nice upside when it comes up, but I don't think the drain mode will be quite as relevant.

I'm not a fan of Cabaretti Charm - the removal mode is situational, and I don't see myself wanting Raise the Alarm or Charge. That said, I will note that instant speed mass trample is apparently a very rare effect, only appearing on Waxing Moon and conditionally on Dinosaur Stampede. So... if that's an effect you care about, there aren't many alternatives.

Obscura Charm is interesting, but definitely looks tuned for 60-card formats. Mana value 3 or less limits it significantly, and the counter mode, while good, is overpriced compared to other options.

[Sporegorger_Dragon]

Spoilers are on fire, Raffine, Jetmir and Xander have been revealed. Raffine showcases the Obscura keyword.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Man, they are slowrolling the broker faction stuff. The new legends are neat, I guess, none are particularly broken which is great, but none of them speak to me, which is sad. I tell you what though, I do not look forward to playing against Xander in limited. That guy is the tsar bomba of draft bombs.

Edit: Jetmir, Nexus of Revels seems like a huge trap though. You can't just build up to the stated number, you have to go beyond it otherwise you risk a single removal spell blowing out your whole combat. Losing double strike in particular could be devastating in the wrong circumstances. The True Conviction conundrum rears its ugly head once again...

Edit: now that I think about it, they can always just kill Jetmir and blow you out that way too. The future of this cat demon is not looking good.