the negative connotation of the term cEDH

[maeos]

Help, people don't agree with me.

i dont mind that you dont agree with me but offering no other solutions other than "gtfo of our format you aren't wanted here" isn't constructive. I'm trying to find other solutions for peaceful coexistence, but you clearly dont mind stirring the pot. Right now you are the person in the dramas who will spit on the peace offering and say that its poisoned, even after the person who brought it ate a piece infront of you just to prove its not, just cause you dont trust anyone. Your "hot takes" aren't that hot, and if thats the attitude that you have towards any players who have a higher power deck then, i hope that i never have to interact with you irl.

[pokken]

i dont mind that you dont agree with me but offering no other solutions other than "gtfo of our format you aren't wanted here" isn't constructive. I'm trying to find other solutions for peaceful coexistence,

You've been given so many good points and balanced takes that like two crotchety responses = lock the thread feels like a not particularly nuanced reaction. Delete it if you want to delete it.

I'll reiterate this for you but I think if the cEDH community wants acceptance they need to be the accepting ones first. Understand that they are *not* the target audience for the game at all and try to lay out some party line points. There is a vocal group within the cEDH community that wants something that is absolutely offensive and would spell the death of the format as we know it.

That one topic is "competitively managed banlist." As long as the cEDH community tolerates that line of dialog it's going to be tense and antagonistic. The arguments are tired and tedious and get brought up all the time.

edit: sounds like you can't delete threads. Womp. My bad!

[RxPhantom]

I have no problems with cEDH players themselves, but their approach to the format is anathema to its intended purpose. Enjoy your corner of the format, sincerely, but don't be surprised that its governing body won't make decisions with you in mind. I think cEDH players want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be considered a part of the greater Commander ecosystem, but chafe endlessly against the RC and its philosophy. If you don't like it, spin off your own format and put the work into curating a banlist/rules set that helps you accomplish your goals.

Until then, suck it up. Understand that you're applying a competitive mindset to a casual format, and that diametric opposition will always stand in your way.

[DirkGently]

I'm trying to find other solutions for peaceful coexistence, but you clearly dont mind stirring the pot. Right now you are the person in the dramas who will spit on the peace offering and say that its poisoned

You want a peaceful coexistence? That's easy. Do not play where EDH players play. Do not push for rules changes to a format you don't play. Play in private groups. Play online games clearly labeled cEDH. Have separate LGS nights for cEDH. There should be exactly as much cross-contamination between cEDH and EDH as between EDH and standard. When that happens, I will complain no more about cEDH.

But that's not going to happen, because cEDH as a format's goals are directly in opposition to ours, and cEDH players see no problem with proselytizing their format at LGS events intended for EDH play, and in many cases playing cEDH decks in games intended for EDH decks. Because it has no negative consequences for them or their format. Just for us.

If your "peace offering" is trying to change the name, or distance yourself from the problematic elements your format has spawned - without even attempting to actually solve the problems cEDH has created - you can keep it.

[BeneTleilax]

Help, people don't agree with me.

This was a thread explicitly addressed to fellow cEDH players on how they should term their subformat. It's almost amusing how you arrive and demand they answer your own topics, while claiming they're "invading your space".

[DirkGently]

This was a thread explicitly addressed to fellow cEDH players on how they should term their subformat. It's almost amusing how you arrive and demand they answer your own topics, while claiming they're "invading your space".

1) This is the Commander forum, not the cEDH forum.
2) Idk how you define "explicit" but I've reread the OP a dozen times and I have no idea what you're talking about.
3) He asked "is there a way to change the community's negative views?" and I've answered that question.

[BeneTleilax]

discuss about the negative connotation about cEDH.

It was about the terminology of the subformat, not a referendum on whether it deserves to exist. You want to make a "does cEDH deserve to exist" thread, feel free to, but I think OP is well within their rights to want you to stop derailing their thread and insulting them.

[DirkGently]

It was about the terminology of the subformat, not a referendum on whether it deserves to exist. You want to make a "does cEDH deserve to exist" thread, feel free to, but I think OP is well within their rights to want you to stop derailing their thread and insulting them.

Are we reading different threads? Changing the name was one suggestion of how to remove the negative opinion of cEDH, it was not the sole topic.

I didn't say it couldn't exist. I'm fine with it existing in the same way Modern exists - doing it's own thing in its own space. But I suspect that's not what most cEDH players actually want.

[BeneTleilax]

I didn't say it couldn't exist. I'm fine with it existing in the same way Modern exists - doing it's own thing in its own space. But I suspect that's not what most cEDH players actually want.

You want it to either stop being competitive, or stop being EDH. I fail to see how that doesn't entail the end of it.

[DirkGently]

You want it to either stop being competitive, or stop being EDH. I fail to see how that doesn't entail the end of it.

Why would playing in separate spaces make it "stop being EDH"?

If preying upon the larger commander format is a mandatory part of the format then I guess I do think it should stop existing.

[Jemolk]

I didn't say it couldn't exist. I'm fine with it existing in the same way Modern exists - doing it's own thing in its own space. But I suspect that's not what most cEDH players actually want.

You want it to either stop being competitive, or stop being EDH. I fail to see how that doesn't entail the end of it.

Actually I'm pretty sure he just wants it to stop trying to encroach on casual EDH. Which is perfectly reasonable. Peace between casual EDH and cEDH is fine by me, but the cEDH community really needs to stop tolerating the minority within their sphere that keep trying to colonize the casual EDH space for it to work. As long as a subset of the cEDH community is actively attacking the casual sphere, peace isn't an option that the casual community can realistically embrace.

And yes, it is a subset, but it's the so-called paradox of tolerance at work here -- if you tolerate the people who are intolerant of casual EDH and allow them to be aggressive with minimal pushback, you are indirectly being intolerant of casual EDH yourself. As another popular saying goes, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." And while it's not quite accurate, and we're not exactly talking real evil here either, the point remains that ignoring aggression and calling for peace from its opposition means siding with it against its targets.

It's much less significant here than in its political applications, but it's still relevant. If you want peace, you have to push back really hard against elements of your own community that are making that impossible.

[BeneTleilax]

Why would playing in separate spaces make it "stop being EDH"?

"You can't play in the same store as us, or stop existing" is a pretty absurd take. This is the same sort of childish territorialism that I expect from the worst parts of the wargaming fandom, and at least they need large amounts of physical space. cEDH needs to corral it's annoying subfactions, but right now, you are exemplifying the annoying subfaction of casual. I don't know about you, but I started playing EDH around the fringes of other formats, namely after and between Standard and Limited events. That both makes it hypocritical to kick cEDH out of stores when we're also there, it also makes it absurd. That tradition of hanging around the fringes of other formats means every night is EDH night in some sense. My local store has weekly drafts, and people have started bringing EDH to those, and playing after. Is that now "EDH night" and anyone who wanted cEDH should vacate the premises? Hell, I played a game of EDH with four other folks after the prerelease, should the dreaded cEDH players who hoped to do the same (I have no idea if there were any, didn't see any) flee the event to avoid contaminating the ritual purity of the format?

[DirkGently]

"You can't play in the same store as us, or stop existing" is a pretty absurd take.

good thing it's not what I said then.

Most stores have a night for commander, a night for draft, a night for standard, etc. standard players don't show up for commander night. cEDH players should follow that model and have separate events on different nights at the same store.

In theory that shouldn't be necessary, cEDH players should be able to have a separate table just like a group of standard players can play off to the side of an EDH night without conflict. But cEDH players keep putting their hand in the cookie jar. So no more cookie privileges. Get your own space.

I don't know about you, but I started playing EDH around the fringes of other formats, namely after and between Standard and Limited events. That both makes it hypocritical to kick cEDH out of stores when we're also there, it also makes it absurd.

Personally, no. I do one format at a time. How do you fit in a game of commander between rounds of limited anyway? You finish a game in 15 minutes?

Afterwards, I personally don't, but I don't really mind cEDH players doing it fully after the commander event. Go nuts.

Your example is bad because cEDH players are playing it during and as a part of the commander event. Do commander players sign up for a standard event and then play commander decks?

Outside of scheduled times, it's a free-for-all for table space, but cEDH should be treated as incompatible with EDH as standard is. cEDH players shouldn't be trying to squeeze into commander games when there aren't more cEDH players.

[RxPhantom]

Does anyone have a cEDH community to speak of in their respective areas? I've never encountered one. I have, however, encountered several instances of a cEDH deck ruining a pod. To an extent I get it, you want to play your tuned, tutor-filled combo deck and there isn't an established group of likeminded players. That sucks. Understand that once you win, I'm not playing another game against that deck. I do feel bad that these players can't find a meta, but I'm not willing to ruin mine to accommodate them.

[5colorsrainbow]

Does anyone have a cEDH community to speak of in their respective areas? I've never encountered one. I have, however, encountered several instances of a cEDH deck ruining a pod. To an extent I get it, you want to play your tutor-filled combo deck and there isn't an established group of likeminded players. That sucks. Understand that once you win, I'm not playing another game against that deck. I do feel bad that these players can't find a meta, but I'm not willing to ruin mine to accommodate you.

The two "cEDH" players I knew in my college group where not toxic really. Like they are competitive and goal is to win but they would also bring slightly tuned pre-con or fun jank to play with us most of the time and we didn't mind sometimes letting them bash us around if they wanted to test out a more competitive deck, but that all was talked about before hand. Helped they could also just play with each other as well.

One thing too is they both said very much knew EDH was a casual format and even noted it wasn't ideal for competitive. Like I said they are just spike players so whatever they play, in and out side of magic, they like to play optimized so we just kind accepted it and for the most part they where great to play with.

[toctheyounger]

Hi mods, just reading over the responses, its basically the same things being rehashed over and over again. I had been hoping for more constructive discourse, however it has only gone back to the "demonize cEDH". If possible please close the thread.

Help, people don't agree with me.

The people %$#% on casuals for a win are not cedh players, they're jerks. Therefore, the issue, at least as far as enjoyment of the average pickup game goes, has nothing to do with cedh.

This is a no true scotsman argument imo. There are cEDH players who have their own insulated playgroups and don't bother anyone, there are cEDH players who play at an LGS and try to find other cEDH opponents to play against...and there are cEDH players who play at an LGS and """try""" to find other cEDH opponents. They're all cEDH players. cEDH doesn't get to disown the jerks any more than EDH gets to disown the jerks who play casual commander and flips the table when someone counterspells their expropriate.

The reality on the ground is that, since cEDH is a fairly small format with a high buy-in (outside proxies), I'd imagine it's not easy to find a nice insulated group that can isolate away from EDH at large. So, people go to their LGS with cEDH decks and try to find other cEDH players. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume they're not initially intending to pubstomp. But then if they don't find enough people to play cEDH with, I don't imagine they want to just leave. Newer players who aren't familiar with the format and/or want to be nice invite them to play. And a lot of those sorts of players, who often don't understand the distinction very well, are impressed with the cEDH decks, and aspire to do the same. And ofc that's great news for the cEDH player, more people to play against, and they have no reason to prevent it...but it can ruin the environment for the EDH players as there's more and more blurring between the two formats. The cEDH mindset can spread like a virus, even with the best of intentions. I've seen this exact thing happening at KoC downtown. People come in with cEDH, they impress the new players, new players try to emulate them, and you end up with an unpleasant blur of semi-competitive combo decks aspiring to be cEDH but with little understanding of the distinction between the formats and happy to sit down at either table.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to play cEDH, obviously. I don't know what should be done about it, beyond being critical of pubstompers. But I don't like it. I like my quiet room.

I get what you're saying here, and I think there's some relevance. The no true Scotsman parable probably applies to the less competitive side of the format too if we're being fair. I wouldn't consider myself the paragon of casual, frankly this format being the 'format for everyone' i don't think such a thing exists. I think that's part of why its such a difficult format to manage in terms of pleasing everyone. You simply never will, and so as an aside I truly feel for the RC guys, they get a ton of vitriol they generally don't deserve.

Back to the point at hand I see what you're saying about the reality at ground level and I'm not at all surprised. KoC is probably as close to a high end boutique LGS as Auckland might have and so seeing premium product there from time to time definitely gives me the vibe that if I wanted a high tier game I'd just have to hang around long enough.

I get the frustration at struggling to find a game too, I think that frustration is part of what lends people to bring highly powered decks into a game they're not balanced for, and it sucks. There isnt really a one size fits all solution. I know people are sick of hearing rule 0, but like, thats why its there. Its not perfect but it's the best we've got. And if someone wants to shuffle up without doing it, that's someone I'm wary of. For myself I'm in the position of knowing enough about cedh in passing to know when I'm gonna get ganked, but I'll also give anything a go, because you never know, you might just sneak in a W, and frankly I don't have the time to be all that selective.

Everyone likes their own version of serenity, and this format being the melting pot it is I just think this disruption of that serenity was probably inevitable. I'm not trying to call you an old man shouting at clouds, but maybe you have been pretty blessed in your pickup games historically. Most of mine are online, and people will just throw anything at you with zero consideration for your fun. Its part of why my skin is thicker these days than it was earlier in my gaming history.

For what its worth, my experience over the past few years is actually that I've had more casual or punter players produce a miserable game state than cedh players. Both have happened plenty, but people running silver border or superfriends or extra turns.dec or some insanely jank combo that they wanna tick off their bucket list is really common for me. Frankly its just as painful, if not moreso because it chews up a damn sight more time than being gamed by a 9 or 10.

Things I've found to help in the past is to feed back to people my experience of their decks and what its like on the other side of the net, explaining why I'm frustrated or just being brutally up front and saying things like 'I see your lattice, if we're going for MLD I'm scooping' or 'hey man I'm on a time limit here, can we please share the game time? If not all good, I'll scoop and fine something else'. I guess for me it comes down to picking a hill I'm willing to die on, and making sure to tell people what I'm enjoying and what I'm not. I also appreciate it when people do the same for me.

I don't know that my response here is anything more than a ramble, it certainly doesn't feel like a rebuttal. Either way my experience has been improved by just working on encouraging open communication more, both ways, and as cheesy as it sounds, being the change I want to see in the world. Deep down I do share your sentiment insofar as I want all of my games to be fun and memorable for the right reasons. I just don't think there's much more that you can do about it than share your thoughts and help people see your perspective with the aspirations for them improving the way they behave around their fellow players. Rule 0 isn't perfect but make it the best it can be and it might just help things along.

Jesus christ I sound like a pastor here - and a 1, 2, 3...kumbaya...

[RxPhantom]

Does anyone have a cEDH community to speak of in their respective areas? I've never encountered one. I have, however, encountered several instances of a cEDH deck ruining a pod. To an extent I get it, you want to play your tutor-filled combo deck and there isn't an established group of likeminded players. That sucks. Understand that once you win, I'm not playing another game against that deck. I do feel bad that these players can't find a meta, but I'm not willing to ruin mine to accommodate you.

The two "cEDH" players I knew in my college group where not toxic really. Like they are competitive and goal is to win but they would also bring slightly tuned pre-con or fun jank to play with us most of the time and we didn't mind sometimes letting them bash us around if they wanted to test out a more competitive deck, but that all was talked about before hand. Helped they could also just play with each other as well.

One thing too is they both said very much knew EDH was a casual format and even noted it wasn't ideal for competitive. Like I said they are just spike players so whatever they play, in and out side of magic, they like to play optimized so we just kind accepted it and for the most part they where great to play with.

Your friends sound very thoughtful and self-aware, i.e. the best kind of people to play with.

Out of all of the times I've had a cEDH deck ruin a pod (I hesitate to call it pubstomping because I don't believe there was malicious intent), the players themselves were affable enough; they just didn't seem to understand the negative influence they were having. That aforementioned self-awareness is crucial in these situations.

Side note, my daughter saw me typing and wants to click on some emojis, so here we go:

[Crazy Monkey]

I can't speak for more than my own group, but in my experience it doesn't matter what the format is called. The amount of available resources available for deck optimization and powercreep in the card pool has pushed the power of decks up, although the cEDH meta is a significant contributing factor to the former of those. The pressure to split the format would almost certainly increase if the name changed, so I think that is more important for this discussion. I'm ambivalent about the prospect, although the amount/type of complaints directed towards the RC from the cEDH players I know is definitely much more and more vitriolic. If cEDH players want the banlist to be made for them, then they should initiate a format split on their own and call it something else for clarity's sake. Again, I don't really have an opinion on that.

I'm not entirely certain that the cross pollination between EDH and cEDH is the problem when you have an organized group that actively engages in conversation about what kind of games they want. My group and I play regularly at a range of power levels, and deckbuild for that range. We have regular players who prefer cEDH games, and I personally prefer slower games at the middling power levels. It's taken some time, as like most metagames we had a bit of an arms race between 2018-2019 as decks powered up. Now when we play we run through low/mid/high/C and cycle between them over the course of our games. If a player doesn't have a deck at the level we're playing, then they borrow a deck.

If we're talking more broadly about cEDH and EDH, outside my metagame and especially outside a regular group, then the largest issues in my opinion are some combination of the two: power level discrepancy in games, and unsolicited deckbuilding "advice". The former is when player present their deck as something that doesn't match the expectation of the other players. Most often, this is pubstomping (independent in intent). This can also occur when players from independent groups cross-pollinate and have different established expectations. I've encountered players who significantly overestimate the level of their deck as well, and those games also are also not enjoyable abet less common. When we play with a new player, it's important to ask about what turn they expect their deck to win in order to match appropriately. When playing in an unknown group, it's important to go out of your way to discuss what player expect out of the game. For this reason, I try to target a less powerful deck when I don't know what exactly is expected.

By far the largest issue I have the cEDH and EDH being as adjacent as they are is that cEDH players tend to go out of their way to suggest improvements for decks which align with cEDH. When given to a newer EDH player, this pushes their deck towards cEDH levels and when newer players only have high powered decks, it limits their options to play at a range of decks. When an experienced EDH player is advised to lower their curve and plan on every card with MV 4+ immediately win games it typically does not consider why they're not already doing that. Personally, I enjoy longer and grindy games and decks with a restrictive theme. I don't want to add a Thassa's Oracle to my sphinx tribal deck, for example. No matter how many times I have an empty library, that's just not how I want my deck to win.

The "spike players" who build competitively and recognize that this limits their decks to those power levels are a healthy addition to a game group. The spike players who only want to play at their own power level and see pushing others to build in the same way as the compromise position are the problem. We had a player who only builds 1 deck at the cEDH level and insists only playing it every game. That player's opinion was that everyone else should improve their decks to compete instead of borrowing an appropriate deck. This is untenable, and it took effectively a playgroup split for lower power decks to see play again.

[DirkGently]

I get what you're saying here, and I think there's some relevance. The no true Scotsman parable probably applies to the less competitive side of the format too if we're being fair. I wouldn't consider myself the paragon of casual, frankly this format being the 'format for everyone' i don't think such a thing exists. I think that's part of why its such a difficult format to manage in terms of pleasing everyone. You simply never will, and so as an aside I truly feel for the RC guys, they get a ton of vitriol they generally don't deserve.

For sure. However I do think that within certain levels of power (or at least certain types of power) the balancing aspect of multiplayer can keep things reasonably in check. Like someone with a really good aggro deck can still be held in check if multiple opponents are focusing against him. The problems mostly arise when we're talking about the sort of uninteractive combos that cEDH tends to use.

Back to the point at hand I see what you're saying about the reality at ground level and I'm not at all surprised. KoC is probably as close to a high end boutique LGS as Auckland might have and so seeing premium product there from time to time definitely gives me the vibe that if I wanted a high tier game I'd just have to hang around long enough.

I'm kinda over KoC. Very insular with a lot of pubstompers, semi-competitive linear combo decks, and babies who rage quit when you interact with them. Hobbymaster has a much better playerbase imo. KoC's new location significantly increased the annoyance factor of playing there too. The owner almost seems annoyed that people want to play there.

I get the frustration at struggling to find a game too, I think that frustration is part of what lends people to bring highly powered decks into a game they're not balanced for, and it sucks. There isnt really a one size fits all solution. I know people are sick of hearing rule 0, but like, thats why its there. Its not perfect but it's the best we've got.

The situation I keep seeing play out is exacerbated significantly by people being new and/or unaware. It tends to go something like this:

A: Hey, can I play my deck? It's pretty strong tho...
B: My craw wurm deck is also strong. Let's play!
A: *combos on turn 3*
B: Wow, your deck is really cool (unaware it's a card-for-card copy of decklists available online)! I wanna make my deck more like yours!
A: The first thing you should do is cut all those craw wurms and put in a linear combo. That's the best way to win in commander!

For myself I'm in the position of knowing enough about cedh in passing to know when I'm gonna get ganked, but I'll also give anything a go, because you never know, you might just sneak in a W, and frankly I don't have the time to be all that selective.

I think it's totally fine when people who know exactly what they're getting into want to fight an uphill battle against a cEDH deck. I'll do it from time to time - obviously that's not going to push me towards cEDH things. The issue is mostly when it's being done to people who have little idea what they're doing, and how that game can influence those players.

And for the record, I think it's fine if someone decides "I'm going to play cEDH instead of EDH". Or play both, with different decks. But the problem is that those players don't tend to have a well-defined line between those things and instead make "casual" decks that ape cEDH decks, and as I said, it becomes a bit of a blur instead of a nice clean demarcation between the two formats.

I'm not trying to call you an old man shouting at clouds

I have literally done that Stupid clouds ruining my flying weather!

maybe you have been pretty blessed in your pickup games historically.

There are still a lot of casual commander players around. Hobbymaster has a pretty good meta imo. As have lots of other places I've played. I don't think any of those places had cEDH players lurking around the periphery, though. Whereas that's a fairly common situation for less good metas.

Most of mine are online, and people will just throw anything at you with zero consideration for your fun. Its part of why my skin is thicker these days than it was earlier in my gaming history.

I don't think I'd ever play commander online (I mean, versus people I know with a webcam maybe, but not strangers). It sounds unpleasant.

Cross fingers I may have a new group to play with up north here. Although when I asked "what format do you play" he replied "what do you mean"...so that's maybe not a great sign lmao. Better bring my precons. (he did later clarify that they play commander and "standard", although who knows if that means meta standard or 60 newish cards in a pile)

For what its worth, my experience over the past few years is actually that I've had more casual or punter players produce a miserable game state than cedh players. Both have happened plenty, but people running silver border or superfriends or extra turns.dec or some insanely jank combo that they wanna tick off their bucket list is really common for me. Frankly its just as painful, if not moreso because it chews up a damn sight more time than being gamed by a 9 or 10.

Yeah that's also an annoyance for sure.

Things I've found to help in the past is to feed back to people my experience of their decks and what its like on the other side of the net, explaining why I'm frustrated or just being brutally up front and saying things like 'I see your lattice, if we're going for MLD I'm scooping' or 'hey man I'm on a time limit here, can we please share the game time? If not all good, I'll scoop and fine something else'. I guess for me it comes down to picking a hill I'm willing to die on, and making sure to tell people what I'm enjoying and what I'm not. I also appreciate it when people do the same for me.

I tend to favor the eye roll and followed by the phone check. And I'll scoop as soon as I see they have the win, I'm not gonna wait for them to resolve casting their whole library.

I don't know that my response here is anything more than a ramble, it certainly doesn't feel like a rebuttal. Either way my experience has been improved by just working on encouraging open communication more, both ways, and as cheesy as it sounds, being the change I want to see in the world.

I think I'm generally pretty capable of managing the pre-game conversation in my own games. The issue I have is more with the broader cultural shifts in the format as a whole. Which are caused by many things, ofc, not just cEDH, but cEDH is a pretty visible part of it.

One thing I think may have a somewhat profound impact on the current less-than-perfect road we find ourselves on is the massive shift to commander as a common, probably the most common, beginner format. It sounds a bit myopic to say that they way I progressed through the game was the ideal way, but I think it did provide me with some perspective that a lot of new players lack.

Imo, the ideal way to get into magic is to start playing 60(+) card casual. Very little, if any, strategy advice, just try stuff and see what works. Gradually decks get more tuned and eventually you start thinking "hmm, maybe I should get into competitive magic." So you go into standard (or limited but we'll focus on standard). If you like it, great, keep doing it. If you get annoyed about rotation or want a higher power level, switch to modern/legacy/vintage. However - and this is the path I ended up on - if you find the idea of an established meta very boring and want to be able to brew your own decks and still compete, at that point get into commander. Then you can appreciate the freedom of a format that isn't built optimally, where the number of viable decks is practically infinite. Where you can play those old cards from your 60-cards that could never be competitively viable. A massive canvas to paint whatever you like onto.

However, I think what's happening nowadays is that people START on EDH, or at least very early move to EDH. They have little experience with other competitive formats, and so they don't really appreciate what commander is an escape from. They're still in the mindset of optimization, which players who took the ^ path got out of their system on their road towards standard. So when they see a powerful commander deck, they're impressed. They want to do it too. They don't see the road that optimization leads toward - a settled meta with far less room for creativity and variety.

Side note, my daughter saw me typing and wants to click on some emojis, so here we go:

lmao how does this not have more updoots.

[BeneTleilax]

Your example is bad because cEDH players are playing it during and as a part of the commander event. Do commander players sign up for a standard event and then play commander decks

I mean, I didn't sign up for the event, but I would absolutely hang around Standard/Modern FNMs to trade and pull people aside for EDH games because that's when people were around (also because Standard players would dump rotated staples and it was a good way to get those for my decks). Part of that is because I was in high school and had too much free time, but part of it is because I had better odds of finding a game with people who were there for the FNM than I did most other times.

Does anyone have a cEDH community to speak of in their respective areas?

I do, although I only tangentially interact with them. One of them plays at free-for-all Magic events, where people are playing everything from Modern to EDH. I've never played cEDH with them, but I've never seen any of them pubstomp or even get salty after games. One of them also plays casual EDH, but his decks are pretty strictly delimited. His casual decks are a weird sort of glass-cannon combo where the "payoff" for setting up all the pieces correctly is just getting a bunch of unhasted 6/6s or whatever. Glass-nerf-gun decks. I know there's another cEDH meta that meets at another store I go to sometimes, but they only meet Sundays so I haven't really interacted with them outside of some trades. I will add, one advantage of having a cEDH group around at the same time/place as casual EDH is they're some of the few people who've left casual EDH, but haven't sold out of the game, so they still have a lot of cool EDH staples in their binders.

I've only seen one dude pubstomp, and that's because he scrubbed out of the latter cEDH group, and I guess figured that not being cut it there meant his deck was casual. He got ganged up on from the jump there, lost, and I haven't seen him since.

[DirkGently]

I mean, I didn't sign up for the event, but I would absolutely hang around Standard/Modern FNMs to trade and pull people aside for EDH games because that's when people were around (also because Standard players would dump rotated staples and it was a good way to get those for my decks). Part of that is because I was in high school and had too much free time, but part of it is because I had better odds of finding a game with people who were there for the FNM than I did most other times.

Simply being there doesn't make it analogous. if cEDH players are playing a strictly cEDH game, separated from the EDH event, then that's tolerable. The problem is that they are generally participating in the event itself, with cEDH decks. I shall be quite shocked if anyone has done the same with an EDH deck at a standard event.

I don't really care if someone is playing standard on the periphery of a commander event because they're still going to be separated from that event by their format. If a new player sees them playing standard and goes "wow, neat, I wanna do that" then they can build a standard deck and play that deck in standard games and I don't have to be involved at all. The problem is that because EDH and cEDH are played with the same rules, that sort of separation is not really possible - hence why playing even on the periphery is still, at best, "tolerable". Even if they studiously avoid playing against any non-cEDH players, new players will see them playing "the same format" and want to do the stuff they're doing. In order to prevent the formats blending together, additional measures would need to be taken. Like playing at different times or in different stores.

But ofc cEDH players rarely do that, because why would they? Intermixing is 100% win for them.

[pokken]

In my meta the cedh guys rarely play outside their circle and they almost all have reps as bringing too much heat in casual. One of them is fun to play with in casual but he also gets smoked in the main cedh games all the time because he kinda marches to his own beat.

But at least he doesn't have imperial seal in his 5c casual tribal decks like some of the others.

[RadiantSophia]

Whining EDH players to cEDH players: "You evil people appropriated our format, we demand you leave and stop playing (EDH, not magic in general)"
Whining cEDH players to regular EDH players, after appropriating the format: " You losers need to conform to US (specifically the ban list, etc.)"

Did I miss anything?

[RxPhantom]

Whining EDH players to cEDH players: "You evil people appropriated our format, we demand you leave and stop playing (EDH, not magic in general)"
Whining cEDH players to regular EDH players, after appropriating the format: " You losers need to conform to US (specifically the ban list, etc.)"

Did I miss anything?

Just a couple of big huge straw men.

[onering]

I guess this is one area where mtgo is better than in store play. cEDH players tend to make their own tables labeled cEDH when they want a cEDH game. People bringing a cEDH deck to a more casual table, even tables advertising stronger (7-8 power) casual, is rare.