Warhammer 40K, Lord of the Rings, and other IPs in Magic.

[caulkwrangler]

I am all for this Universes Beyond and their inclusion everywhere. More players, more money for retailers, and more interesting flavor. The day I can lead Mega Man, Ultra Man, and Superman into battle against a horde deck running the Death Star will be a great one.

[materpillar]

Full disclosure, I've only somewhat skimmed the past few pages.

Honestly, I'd way way rather sit down against Rarity, Princess Twilight Sparkle, Nightmare Moon // Princess Luna, Daryl, Hunter of Walkers, Glenn, the Voice of Calm, Rick, Steadfast Leader, Negan, the Cold-Blooded, or Michonne, Ruthless Survivor over Korvold, Fae-Cursed King/Chulane, Teller of Tales. It isn't remotely close at all actually. I'll take ridiculously off flavor, advertisement cards over insanely linear unfun value engines that consistently result in non-games but have the correct flavor. Give me a Ronald McDonald with insanely wacky, interesting play patterns. That sounds pretty fantastic to me. I like the expression involved in building a deck, but at the end of the day the most important thing to me is that my opponents and I have fun play experiences. Card art and theming definitely factors into that (I hate sharpie proxies, seriously it isn't hard to just print out a semi-passable proxy) but the foundation of mtg for me is solid gameplay. Everything else is icing.

I mean, I'm imaging Ronald McDonald clown tribal where ever card art has been edited to have a stupid wig and bright red nose. I personally think that'd be hilarious to play against and its the most flavor breaking thing I can think of.

Making these newer cards silver border doesn't really do anything. I don't know that I really ever want to play against an Urza, Lord High Artificer deck, and it is black bordered explicitly legal goodness. I'm going to be having a "that seems busted and unfun to play against" conversation completely independent of the fact that Urza, Lord High Artificer has a black border instead of a silver border. On a similar note, I've played against Rarity and didn't even remotely consider asking him not to play the deck.

My main concern is that they print stupidly busted staples that ruin games like Chulane, Teller of Tales and put them behind the secret layer pay wall. That's extremely likely to happen and going to be disappointing when it does.

On a side tangent, I just read Nightmare Moon // Princess Luna for the first time. That card seems like it could be hella fun to a weird political build moon tribal deck. I'm going to need to look into this.

[Hermes_]

On a similar note, I've played against Rarity and didn't even remotely consider asking him not to play the deck.

I want it,mainly because i have a rainbow dash plushie lol

[CommanderMaster999]

Honestly this is one reason I'm definately ok with crossover I play for gameplay Crossover or not I should still enjoy the game

And yes I would love to take on crossover characters and not one bit of me would say no to playing against UB cards I would even let TWD cards in even though I didn't like that crossover at all

[RxPhantom]

I am all for this Universes Beyond and their inclusion everywhere. More players, more money for retailers, and more interesting flavor. The day I can lead Mega Man, Ultra Man, and Superman into battle against a horde deck running the Death Star will be a great one.

I'm sincerely glad that you like this, but the examples that you listed make me cringe. It's hard to express my distaste for this idea while simultaneously being fine with players liking it.

As I think on this more and more, I realize that I don't have a huge problem with LotR or D&D in black border. The game is called Magic and I have certain thematic expectations therein. I mean, they've created a varied repertoire of settings over the years, but I wouldn't say that any of them (even the ones I don't like) feel out of place in Magic. Kaladesh, Innistrad, and Lorwyn couldn't be more different from one another, but they feel like Magic. TWD and 40K don't, at all, and while there are still many unanswered questions about UB, I am not optimistic.

I will be very disappointed if the next Teferi's Protection is something like 'Sweep the Leg' or 'Jedi Mind Trick.'

[pokken]

I will be very disappointed if the next Teferi's Protection is something like 'Sweep the Leg' or 'Jedi Mind Trick.'

_I AM THE GREAT CORNHOLIO_

If this ends in a Beavis and Butthead crossover it'll all be worth it.

[onering]

On the plus side, Space: The Gathering was a pretty cool fan set. On the other hand, such things should stay fan sets.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Especially considering that - while it's not exactly life and death - I've probably dedicated close to 10,000 hours of my life to magic, and god knows how much money (I know roughly what my collection is worth, but I don't really feel like adding up all my receipts). So losing it would be a pretty major loss. I don't think it's unreasonable to get pretty upset when it gets shunted in a more exploitative direction.

Emphasis mine, because I guess this is what I'm not understanding. How are you losing it, exactly? If the game evolves in a direction that makes me not enjoy playing it anymore, my collection (while only worth a tenth of yours and compact enough to fit in a 2400 card box) isn't going anywhere. I can sell them or keep them for nostalgia, but those cards don't just lose value just because I don't want to play Magic anymore. I already have plenty of fond memories, good friends, and a kickass box of keepsakes. It's the best game I've ever played, sure, but it is just another game at the end of the day. All the time/money invested were of my own volition, and no one ever promised me I'd be able to play forever anyway.

[pokken]

Emphasis mine, because I guess this is what I'm not understanding. How are you losing it, exactly?

I kinda understand; there's a huge amount of skill involved in playing magic, building decks, etc. I know probably what 7000 magic cards do just by the name. That's a pretty huge amount of mental real estate I've sacrificed to Magic.

I can't even think of a great analogy for it, it's pretty hard to describe.

If Magic changed to the point that I couldn't enjoy it anymore it would be a huge loss for me personally. I'd be very sad.

Not saying that this is that change for me just that I can empathize with the loss of a long term hobby that has taken tons of effort.

It's not just "oh I had good times and I don't like it anymore" if it's changed by an external force and evolves in a way I don't like.

Most hobbies can't be altered in a way you don't enjoy them anymore; no one can change guitar playing or snowboarding in a way I don't like that'd make me quit. But Wizards can definitely make Magic a game I don't like.

[Legend]

On the plus side, Space: The Gathering was a pretty cool fan set. On the other hand, such things should stay fan sets.

Have a link to it?

[DirkGently]

Pokken pretty much hit the nail on the head.

As I've said earlier, I don't think draft is likely to be ruined by this. And I think draft is a better format than commander (although obviously commander also has features that I like that draft doesn't have). So there will presumably always be that for me. If absolutely nothing else, my cubes cannot be ruined by anything WotC does.

no one can change [...] snowboarding in a way I don't like that'd make me quit.

Global warming?

Actually true story, snowboarding has become a drastically smaller part of my life thanks to (1) dating someone who was epileptic for a few years and then (2) moving to countries with much worse/less convenient snowboarding terrain. I miss my 50-minute commute to the slopes from Seattle. But those were my decisions, obviously. I do feel like lift tickets have gone up significantly in past years, though. I think I only paid 300 for my first season pass 6-7 years ago.

Uh oh, I've gone off-topic. We really need to fork off a thread for that.

On the plus side, Space: The Gathering was a pretty cool fan set. On the other hand, such things should stay fan sets.

Are you referencing the SW:TG fan set? Or is this some other thing?

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Emphasis mine, because I guess this is what I'm not understanding. How are you losing it, exactly?

I kinda understand; there's a huge amount of skill involved in playing magic, building decks, etc. I know probably what 7000 magic cards do just by the name. That's a pretty huge amount of mental real estate I've sacrificed to Magic.

I can't even think of a great analogy for it, it's pretty hard to describe.

If Magic changed to the point that I couldn't enjoy it anymore it would be a huge loss for me personally. I'd be very sad.

Not saying that this is that change for me just that I can empathize with the loss of a long term hobby that has taken tons of effort.

It's not just "oh I had good times and I don't like it anymore" if it's changed by an external force and evolves in a way I don't like.

Most hobbies can't be altered in a way you don't enjoy them anymore; no one can change guitar playing or snowboarding in a way I don't like that'd make me quit. But Wizards can definitely make Magic a game I don't like.

See, but this isn't exactly an external force changing the game; it's WotC deciding thw future of the game. I've devoted a huge amount of money/time too, but if I choose not to play anymore, that's a forfeiture, not some nefarious theft of my interests. Besides, did any of us think we were getting something timeless here when we picked the game up? No, we were (mostly) children at the time and I imagine the joy of the moment motivated us more than long term specs on time investment.

Good times end at some point, the best you can say after that though is that you're glad you had fun when you did and try to be okay with that imho. But it's entirely possible that no one wants to hear that in this time of general despair over things that haven't yet happened.

[DirkGently]

See, but this isn't exactly an external force changing the game; it's WotC deciding thw future of the game. I've devoted a huge amount of money/time too, but if I choose not to play anymore, that's a forfeiture, not some nefarious theft of my interests. Besides, did any of us think we were getting something timeless here when we picked the game up? No, we were (mostly) children at the time and I imagine the joy of the moment motivated us more than long term specs on time investment.

Good times end at some point, the best you can say after that though is that you're glad you had fun when you did and try to be okay with that imho. But it's entirely possible that no one wants to hear that in this time of general despair over things that haven't yet happened.

There's some inevitabilities of the TCG format that don't exist in other mediums, but I think making analogies to those mediums illustrate why this is as frustrating as it is. Simply because - with most other games, the game continues to exist. Nintendo might ruin the Zelda franchise (or whichever) by "deciding its future" in away that doesn't appeal to someone - but that doesn't effect the games they already own. WotC making sweeping decisions like this to effect commander will basically eradicate the game that once was. There may be some isolated groups that "keep the old ways", but for most players it will not exist anymore. It would be like if Nintendo took your old Zelda games and added (whatever people don't like) into them. Again, this is sort of inevitable within the format of a TCG since it's always going to be added to in some way, but when the changes are this drastic it feels the same.

I think this is particularly exacerbated by the fact that WotC is very much targeting this (pardon my language) malarkey towards commander, a format they didn't even create. If this was targeted at a format they created - or better yet, a new format - I'd be a lot less bothered. But to me, the narrative feels like the the RC (and precursors) created an awesome format, and then WotC jumped onto and exploited that format more and more and MORE, in part because they've done a poor job of managing and supporting their own formats, to the point that commander is magic for the majority of players. It feels like they don't respect the format, and that's why they're willing to dump this on us, but not in standard.

I think it's unfair to say "well, as children we didn't think we were embracing a timeless hobby". First of all...I'm not actually sure what the hell I was thinking that long ago. But second of all, it's not just that initial interest, it's the many years of additional investment of both time and money that I've put in, based on the seeming stability of the game. For the first 10 years or so I played magic, it was just 4 releases a year and that's it. Then we started getting commander products, and then especially a few years ago we started getting more and more and more and now here we are, the lobster (consumer) in the boiling water (corporate greed). Should I have seen this nightmare coming as things started to get more and more exploitative? Eh, maybe. But I spent the vast majority of my MtG money back in the early/mid 2010s when I got a real job and bought up reserved list cards so I could play them. It's damn hard to let those sunk costs go.

But more than anything else, I find a lot of these sorts of responses to be unsatisfactory because they're sidestepping the question. My complaint here, first and foremost, is that what WotC is doing is immoral. Creating a game, getting customers invested, and then using that investment to pressure them to advertise for their partners in order to generate more money for WotC is immoral. Me - or any individual - resolving their personal grievance, whether by accepting it, finding a way to avoid it, or leaving the game entirely - doesn't do anything to address the core issue that what WotC is doing is just plain wrong - especially when we remember that what they're debasing isn't even entirely theirs.

[Treamayne]

Emphasis mine, because I guess this is what I'm not understanding. How are you losing it, exactly?

I kinda understand; ...But Wizards can definitely make Magic a game I don't like.

See, but this isn't exactly an external force changing the game;...general despair over things that haven't yet happened.

I'm not sure if you are playing devil's advocate, or if you really don't get it. It's not just the "loss" of playing the game, it's the "loss" of all of the ancillary and tangential connections. If you decide to continue with MtG, you are bowing to corporate greed of the magnitude every cyberpunk IP ever has warned you about. If you decide to avoid the cash grab and leave the game, you are also leaving all of the communities and (cyber) associates/friends in those communities. Sure, in theory you could "keep in touch" (just like all those high school friends you speak with daily, right?) but you are effectively excising a significant part of your "social" life (in a time of social distancing).

All because a company that spent 1993 to (approx) 2019 assuring everybody that they put the game and the players before the Dollar. WIth decisions reaching back to Nalathni Dragon distributed by magazine (player backlash against exclusive DragonCon content) and the (now mostly despised) reserved list response to the "collectability" of a CCG. Should we not now feel betrayed that Wizards is basically saying "Here's the future of the game you love; if you don't like it then leave - we'll attract more players than we lose and still increase profitshare."

They already broke their Nalathni promise about mechanically unique content with limited availability with SLTWD. Now they are breaking every other promise (except the one we want broken, the RL) by bringing outside material as black bordered, when they specifically said anything non-Magic would forever be outside the tournament legal black and white borders.

After all, things like the Un-Sets aren't bad or wrong, but they are content that is inherently different, and should be enjoyed by those who enjoy that content, not forced down the throat of every player unlucky enough to not have a closed playgroup that can Rule 0 exclude content.

So yes. As a casual player, they have slowly taken everything I loved about this game away from me. Mothership forums and communities, gone. Then MTGO lost games > 4 players, then they removed the formats I loved. All I have left is EDH... for 12 more months (or less). Yes, I understand evolving games and environments. However, I still feel betrayed when 25 years after they promised to keep unique content available and keep outside and humor content separate; they break both promises at once with this ... maneuver; and refuse to even acknowledge that they have betrayed the community they grew. They still hide behind the RL as "we put players before profit" as if keeping one promise makes up for breaking 12 others and destroying a format they don't even "own."

[caulkwrangler]

I'm sincerely glad that you like this, but the examples that you listed make me cringe. It's hard to express my distaste for this idea while simultaneously being fine with players liking it.

As I think on this more and more, I realize that I don't have a huge problem with LotR or D&D in black border. The game is called Magic and I have certain thematic expectations therein. I mean, they've created a varied repertoire of settings over the years, but I wouldn't say that any of them (even the ones I don't like) feel out of place in Magic. Kaladesh, Innistrad, and Lorwyn couldn't be more different from one another, but they feel like Magic. TWD and 40K don't, at all, and while there are still many unanswered questions about UB, I am not optimistic.

I will be very disappointed if the next Teferi's Protection is something like 'Sweep the Leg' or 'Jedi Mind Trick.'

Your cringe makes me cringe, its cringey. The game is called Magic, it isn't actually magic, it could be called Game: the Playing with all terms changed to generic ones and it would be just as fun. People are confusing the skins for the engine and assuming the skin is worth preserving. Sweep the %$#% Leg, Johnny.

On the plus side, Space: The Gathering was a pretty cool fan set. On the other hand, such things should stay fan sets.

No, they shouldn't.

[DirkGently]

it could be called Game: the Playing with all terms changed to generic ones and it would be just as fun.

I'm a pretty hardcore melvin/spike, and even I wouldn't go NEARLY that far. I can't imagine someone honestly thinking that all the art and character in the game is irrelevant to the enjoyment of it.

And what's wrong with fan sets? You're not even providing arguments, just contradictions.

[caulkwrangler]

it could be called Game: the Playing with all terms changed to generic ones and it would be just as fun.

I'm a pretty hardcore melvin/spike, and even I wouldn't go NEARLY that far. I can't imagine someone honestly thinking that all the art and character in the game is irrelevant to the enjoyment of it.

Ok.

And what's wrong with fan sets? You're not even providing arguments, just contradictions.

I didn't say anything was wrong with fan sets. The poster said such things should remain fan sets. I said they shouldn't. Exactly what am I arguing?

[DirkGently]

Exactly what am I arguing?

I have no idea, you haven't said.

Fan sets have essentially none of the problems of WotC doing UB. They don't pressure players to use them and are 100% opt-in, they aren't motivated by money, and since they're not being approved by the owners of the IP they're not advertisements either. Plus they can center around whatever people want to make them for, instead of whoever WotC can sell out hardest to. They're a fantastic way for people to enjoy creating and using magic cards themed around other properties they enjoy, purely out of passion. UB, by contrast, is pure exploitation.

[caulkwrangler]

Exactly what am I arguing?

I have no idea, you haven't said.

Fan sets have essentially none of the problems of WotC doing UB. They don't pressure players to use them and are 100% opt-in, they aren't motivated by money, and since they're not being approved by the owners of the IP they're not advertisements either. Plus they can center around whatever people want to make them for, instead of whoever WotC can sell out hardest to. They're a fantastic way for people to enjoy creating and using magic cards themed around other properties they enjoy, purely out of passion. UB, by contrast, is pure exploitation.

Oh, I see. Magic is exploitation, I'm paying dollars for a product that costs pennies. It has all the nobility of sodapop, except it doesn't provide moderate hydration. I'm still failing to see any point about fan sets in regards to UB?

[Krishnath]

I don't think many people have been saying "this will bankrupt wotc". I definitely don't think that. I do think it's "the end of magic" in terms of "the game will change in a drastic and irreversible way that will dramatically lower my enjoyment of it," but the game itself will soldier on.

I find myself disagreeing with the "it's always good to have more magic players" argument. As long as I can reasonably find a game at my LGS, I think I'm good with the number of players. Obviously WotC always wants more, but I don't really care. Especially since anyone being brought on-board by UB is going to find a different enjoyment from magic than what I get from it.

Frankly my LGS's commander night has made it really hard to find a seat these days, so if anything I'd prefer fewer commander players. More drafters would be good, but I doubt secret lairs and commander precons are going to help on that front. I guess we'll see with LotR.

Here's a little observation I've made in my many years of playing MTG (Seriously, I've been playing since '94, started right after The Dark was released.), every time something new comes along people always say "Oh, noes, it is the end of Magic", they said it when the block structure was introduced with Ice Age, they said it when it went away. They said it when they switched to all large sets, they said it when Chronicles was released. They said it when the frame changed. They said it when Phasing came in Mirage, and when Morph came in Onslaught. They said it when Planeswalkers were introduced in Lorwyn, when the first Master's set was released, and so on. People are always predicting doom and gloom whenever something changes or something new is introduced, and IT NEVER HAPPENS. Ever. MTG is stronger than it has ever been, and healthier than it has ever been. It is the worlds most played CCG by a long shot, Pokemon that is #2 doesn't even come close to the amount of active CCG players MTG has. And getting new players, even when your CCG is the most played in the world, *is* a good thing. Any game need a constant influx of new players to remain healthy and popular.

[Dunharrow]

I have previously came out supporting UB. I just want to state a few things:

1. Before commander became popularized by WOTC, the most played casual format was 60 card whatever. Commander was cool but not widely played by less enfranchised people. With the Commander Precons, it made a casual format with deckbuilding restrictions accessible to everyone. You may want to point the finger at WOTC for targeting Commander and trying to make money based on its popularity, but they helped that popularity flourish to the point that it is the most played format in Magic.

2. I get that many of you are unhappy that your format, Commander, will be diluted by other IPs. I get it. But it is a casual format. It is an opt-in situation. Some of you may have self-imposed pressure to play the best possible versions of your decks, but that is an exception to the rule. Most Commander is casual. I don't like Glenn, the Voice of Calm and choose not to play it in decks that would love to run it. That is the typical way that people will approach this. If that's not good enough for you, I know it sucks to be told that you are in the minority and to suck it up. But Wizards is not in the business of keeping its existing player base 100% happy. They are in the business of growing their player base. Some people will be upset in the process. I am sorry you are upset.

3. UB will greatly grow the magic player base. Many of you are accusing MtG of only caring about profit... and I just roll my eyes. That has always been their M.O. That's why we have twice as many products as we used to. That is why we have 3 different kinds of booster packs. That is also why the game has grown every year since Return to Ravnica.

4. Admittedly, part of the reason why I am in favour of UB is because I love Lord of the Rings. I have a Middle-Earth map on the wall. My wife commissioned an Eye of Sauron painting for me. I have read the books (all the books, Silmarillion, etc) multiple times. I spent my honeymoon in New Zealand dragging my wife from Gollum's fishing hole to the valley where Isengard was located. Lord of the Rings saved my life when I was 17 years old, and for me to be able to play magic with real Lord of the Rings cards is a dream come true. I share this anecdote because I want all of you to grasp that some people have really wanted this. You may not like it, but some of us do. And I may not like Warhammer, but I can choose to ignore it. It has always been the case that Magic makes things for different kinds of players. Do you think that more people will dislike UB than like it?

5. People are resistant to new things. With time, we will all care less. We won't care if our opponents are running Mario and Luigi partner commanders. We won't care if Tyrion Lannister is equipped with a Needler (from Halo). It will just be magic, and we will be having fun. I think we will continue to be more annoyed at playing against Derevi stax or Golos great stuff. It's a game. Mix & Match IPs may result in a weird asthetic, but are you telling me that having Norse Gods and The Fly in the same deck isn't weird?

6. If the next Standard set was Star Wars IP, people would be upset. Standard players would be upset. It would be weird to see a tournament where another IP was a lynchpin of a winning deck. That is not the case (well, intended case). The goal is to make this viable for casual play only. Of course, cards like True-Name Nemesis slip through and end up becoming Legacy playable. This is the biggest risk being run with these products.

7. For what it's worth, I just want to say that I still get it. We are commander players, and our format is going to be a mixed bag of multiple IPs. Many people playing commander care a lot about flavour. Some of you have also brought up other reasons to dislike UB. I think you will all care less once we get 3-4 products in, but some of you won't. I think an important thing to remember is that your happiness does not trump my happiness. You can look at Secret Lair as a good comparison. Some people are upset that they exist on principle (for example, bypassing LGS). But other people are really happy with them. It will always make sense for Magic to make more products, even polarizing products, because people can choose what they want to play with. You don't have to play with LotR IP. Some people really want to. WotC cannot sacrifice the wants of one group of players to cater to the dislikes of another group. It makes no sense, from a game design point of a view or a profit point of view. The only thing they risk is diluting their IP in competitive play. And maybe upsetting a small subset of players. I am sorry you are upset. I don't want to say your point of view doesn't matter. I just hope you will one day not care as much as you do today.

[pokken]

UB will greatly grow the magic player base.

I originally thought that, but I am not so sure. Breaking out of the Magic core audience into say, 40k fans, is not guaranteed. You probably get some Magic fans buying it and some Magic fans who like 40k buying it, but I don't know that it's guaranteed that you break out.

It'd be interesting to see some numbers on who the people buying TWD Secret lairs were. I know it sold great, but was it to non-Magic players?

[Dunharrow]

UB will greatly grow the magic player base.

I originally thought that, but I am not so sure. Breaking out of the Magic core audience into say, 40k fans, is not guaranteed. You probably get some Magic fans buying it and some Magic fans who like 40k buying it, but I don't know that it's guaranteed that you break out.

It'd be interesting to see some numbers on who the people buying TWD Secret lairs were. I know it sold great, but was it to non-Magic players?

I think it means two things:
1. Existing very casual players who do not buy a lot of product can become more invested in the game. For example, I played super casually. Refused to spend more than a dollar on a card. Never bought booster boxes. When Theros came out, I was so into Greek Mythology that I went crazy. Made competitive standard decks. Starting buying booster boxes. For low spend players, a product that really appeals to you can turn you into a player who is a lot more into the game.

2. I think they chose these first two products intentionally. Lord of the Rings is a widely known franchise. It should do well with the existing magic base, but could also be a good way to get non-magic players more curious about the game. I think they will get a good grasp of how to use huge franchises with UB to expand the existing player base (meaning make them bigger consumers) and a good way to get widespread interest from non fans. Even if only 1% of people learning about this Lord of the Rings expansion decide to get into the game, that is potentially a huge number of new players. Warhammer 40K commander precons I think were made as a safer product as it is less widely known. They can print to demand. It requires fewer resources to make the decks (vs balancing a draft environment). It should help them work out how UB can turn fans of another game, not widely known, into Magic fans. Warhammer players will want to know more about magic and many of them will pick up decks to try it out. It is a good way to evaluate how UB can be used to generate cross-promotional interest between two groups of enfranchised players.

I really think part of the first few UB expansions will be to try to identify who buys the products and how it can grow the game.

No matter what, the products will sell and they will turn a profit. Maybe not enough of a profit for more UB expansions based on other games. But definitely enough to help them identify what will help them grow the most.

[FenrirRex]

Suppose I'll drop on in here and offer my own two cents.

First and foremost have to make this clear: I am the target market for these. I exclusively play commander in paper magic and only play Arena for limited and Brawl (building brawl off of my draft chaff- surprisingly efficient if you want to enjoy the F2P grind, but not the point of this thread). I only typically buy singles to fill out my commander deck collection, but will readily get Commander pre-cons and the occasional special product that has alternative art treatments or cool exclusive cards.

Lord of the Rings is my favorite IP of all time, bar none. Being able to play using my favorite ruleset in gaming with cards from my favorite IP is an actual dream come true. I have mixed feelings about diluting Magic's flavor, but my fanboyism basically nullifies any of those concerns. Similarly, the 40K decks look like they'll be checking off my love for unique art, and being packaged in commander decks makes them readily available and easily in my wheelhouse. I don't have any real love for the stereotypical 40K fan, but the edgelord, grimdark universe itself is interesting and fun if not taken too seriously.

The fact that magic is already a multiverse makes me worry even less about the flavor of it all, I understand it's a bit weird to have chainswords in magic or to have a named Aragorn flailing around with Anduril on the same board as Karador, but I am not enough of a Vorthos to be terribly wounded by this. My initial thought was abject horror at this concept, but if they are not portrayals of actual humans (TWD had this issue, those cards just visually look horrible alongside other magic cards), and their art style remains at least recognizable magic, I'm in and interested to see what other IPs might enter our casual format.

[Wallycaine]

UB will greatly grow the magic player base.

I originally thought that, but I am not so sure. Breaking out of the Magic core audience into say, 40k fans, is not guaranteed. You probably get some Magic fans buying it and some Magic fans who like 40k buying it, but I don't know that it's guaranteed that you break out.

It'd be interesting to see some numbers on who the people buying TWD Secret lairs were. I know it sold great, but was it to non-Magic players?

Dunharrow did a good breakdown on the first question, but I wanna address that they have talked about the Walking Dead Secret Lair, and yes, iirc a massive part of the success was selling to people for the first time. I don't recall if they specified whether or not it was a majority of the purchases, but a driving force behind the sales was people buying the lair despite no or low involvement in Magic beforehand.