Unreleased and New Card Discussion

[CommanderMaster999]

This is the kind of stuff that causes my interest in Magic to fluctuate so wildly. I hope this set tanks...but it won't.

Yeah, it's at the point where almost every new set completely obsoletes a variety of old playstyles and strategies, so if you're playing out in the wild like I often do, you're bombarded with ez-mode stuff that asks game-ending questions on turn 4-5 every turn until the game ends. I'm sure there are elements of this that are just me being an old man yelling at clouds or whatever.

But when every card is Consecrated Sphinx the game is so boring

Every card just does so damned much now.

Looking at the most-played cards in MH1, I think the cards in the 99 have generally been benign - Generous Gift, Talisman of Creativity and the rest of its cycle, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, Ephemerate... most of these cards are strong but fair. There may be some (like Echo of Eons, Force of Negation, or Collector Ouphe) that are causing issues in more competitive circles, but that's not as much of an issue in my meta.

In the command zone, on the other hand... Urza, Lord High Artificer, Sisay, Weatherlight Captain, and The First Sliver are all pretty broken and I do not look forward to playing against them. Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis isn't really a thing in EDH, at least.

MH2 is a bit better on that front. Esper Sentinel, Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth, and Urza's Saga are the most-played cards, and I think they're generally fine. Dauthi Voidwalker is obnoxious. Tireless Provisioner and Academy Manufactor have turbo-charged treasure-based decks, which I do think are an issue... but at least they're interesting cards.

In the command zone, I don't think the new MH2 legends were particularly impactful. Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer is a menace in 60-card formats, but less so in EDH. Sythis, Harvest's Hand is probably the most problematic of the bunch, but I see her more in the 99. Chatterfang, Squirrel General and General Ferrous Rokiric are both neat, although it depends on the meta - the former can do obnoxious combo stuff. Lonis, Cryptozoologist is sort of obnoxious (especially with all the clue / artifact token support).

Overall? I think MH1 and MH2 were extremely disruptive to Modern and Legacy... but less so to EDH. There are a few oppressive commanders that have come out of them, but I think they have otherwise been mostly benign. I suspect they're more of a problem in higher-powered metas though - the format tends to be reliant on self-regulation for people to not play the more broken / unfun stuff. There will probably be a period of time of people abusing new broken cards before things normalize.

...if anything, I'm more concerned about the new precon commanders than any cards in the main set. The increased power level of cards in the command zone has contributed significantly more to format power creep than cards in the 99, IMO. Dockside Extortionist may be broken, but at least it doesn't show up in every game.

Other stuff I'm potentially concerned about:

• any new treasure support
• generic strong colorless cards that don't cost and show up in a ton of decks
• free spells
• the general cost of singles from the set

Well with leaks

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Atleast the eldrazi precon cards are not back breaking so far

Confluence — modes are really just Spatial Contortion, ability of Eldrazi Displacer and making scions

Dreadsire — it's really just a colorless Godsire the only reason it's better is colorless/ward/and 2/2 higher power for the tokens

Twins — yes nasty but it's high mana value like all the others and there should be blockers regardless of the choice

Protector — easily the least impactful it just Regrowth for eldrazi creatures on and a scion at endstep

Obiltieration — it's a great wipe for colorless decks but monocolor decks are immune to it and usually they will pick the color that the most appeared

Mindrender — it's just a colorless Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion and it's only the player it hits for the card theft (the only better part is you can't wiff on a land)

Azlask (side commander) — the experience counters grow from death and you need scion/spawn build up for it and for its ability since the important part of indestructible and annihilator 1 is only for scions and spawns (without a Maskwood Nexus effect)

Behemoth — all it does is switch P/T of any number of creatures on combat (and removal for 0/* powered creatures without +1/+1 counters or static effect)

The only dangerous ones I saw are follows

Uladek (main commander) — well it will be removal magnet but point is it can double the cast triggers and eldrazi creatures with cc available (thr real scary part is they worded "all spells" and "all abilties" so you flash a eldrazi you can copy those spells)

Immunity — protection from a color is nice for just one colorless or overload for all of them, but it's not eldrazi exclusive so any creature gets the benefit so it's Blasphemous Act based wrath protection for your creatures

Cultist — I do feel it's overrated but however we all know a 3rd or half the time in commander games there will be something with a monster load of counters in play and will cheapen spells severely.)

That's really all I see in the eldrazi precon

And that's 11 out of 15 of the new cards (and who knows which MH3 main set cards will be reprints so far It That Heralds the End and breaker of creation are the only ones I and maybe Nulldrifter is what see so far)

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[folding_music]

it's just a tradition at this point to release supplemental product which obliterates its target \o/ maybe they should split into two formats - Modern and MH block constructed

[CommanderMaster999]

😳 …..okaaaaay this is pretty psycho for uncommon (hope it's not expensive because of affinity modern I know it can be used there.)



Lore of this is what lead to the card Kozilek's Return

[pokken]

Wow, that is farking absurd. Should go infinite trivially with basically a ham sandwich too.

[Mookie]

Kozilek's Unsealing looks like a sweet callback to Sarkhan's Unsealing. I'm not sure what decks want it though. In 60-card formats, it looks absurd with Myr Enforcer, Sojourner's Companion, and Thought Monitor (and at least one more looks to be coming in MH3). In EDH, it's a bit harder to run that many 4+ cost creatures... and even harder to play multiple 7+ drops. I could see myself considering it for Thada (8x 4+, 8x 7+) or Animar (14x 4+, 4x 7+), but I'm not convinced it makes the cut. That may change if the new set has a bunch of sweet expensive creatures though, which seems likely.

[darrenhabib]

Kozilek's Unsealing feels like a build around rather than slotting into existing decks.
Morophon, the Boundless used with Eldrazi seems the most obvious with the set heavy on that tribal theme. If you combine with Eye of Ugin, then any Eldrazi that have a colored mana symbols are either to be free to cast or even gain Spawn depending on cost. For example if you cast Sire of Stagnation it'll cost you two colorless mana to cast, but then you get it back with two Spawn tokens.
The Eldrazi with emerge (11x 7+cmc) could be strung together with the card draw and I've got the feeling there will be more to come.

I could see some sort of Dargo, the Shipwrecker build around with bounce spells like Words of Wind.

[Toshi]

Kozilek's Unsealing feels like a build around rather than slotting into existing decks.
Morophon, the Boundless used with Eldrazi seems the most obvious

For me it's Animar, Soul of Elements

[folding_music]

I made the most underpowered ham sandwich I could think of:
Kozilek's Return +
Equilibrium
Skyshroud Cutter
Saprazzan Legate

teehee

[heridfel]

I mean, you can tell that WotC's version of "combo" with this is Nulldrifter using its evoke cost, and getting five cards for three mana is pretty efficient. I honestly don't know if they care about infinite combos in Commander.

[PrimevalCommander]

Incoming rant

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I can't tell you how annoyed I am that the card I have been asking for going on 10 years now ended up with a cast trigger instead of the standard ETB trigger . Sowing Mycospawn is a 3/3 creature that can tutor for ANY land into play tapped. But the thing is a stupid eldrazi with a cast trigger so I can't loop it in for multiple triggers unless I return it to hand and pay the full cost again. Heck, if it was a Ulvenwald Hydra with evoke , Annihilator 2, and cast trigger like Nulldrifter at least I could reanimate a big fatty for value. You suck WotC ! .... just kidding, kinda. At least you gave me Wight of the Reliquary, which is better in almost every way, so I will forgive you for the egregious oversight in giving this Mycospawn a cast trigger once I have a WotR in my grip.

Rant off

[Dunadain]

Cast triggers are cringe. On your opponents side it's less easy to interact with and on your side there are a lot less interesting uses for them.

It makes sense on the eldrazi titans, getting to only for it to get countered is a feel bad, and they'd be a lot more popular to cheat in to play. Then, by extension, I guess it makes sense that the smaller eldrazi have similar mechanics for cohesion, but it's still not nearly as fun.

[PrimevalCommander]

Cast triggers are cringe. On your opponents side it's less easy to interact with and on your side there are a lot less interesting uses for them.

It makes sense on the eldrazi titans, getting to only for it to get countered is a feel bad, and they'd be a lot more popular to cheat in to play. Then, by extension, I guess it makes sense that the smaller eldrazi have similar mechanics for cohesion, but it's still not nearly as fun.

Agreed on the Titans and other big Eldrazi where they are too attractive to cheat into play, but still want to be less blowout-y to counter spells. In RoE original set the Eldrazi were seen, and OtG second time around, the littler drones did have ETB's. Putting a cast trigger on all the little guys just makes them overall unattractive because everyone wants a little extra value out of their sorceries on a body, but making it a cast trigger erases much of the value creature decks are looking for.

[CommanderMaster999]

Holy….cow!

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Eldamari 2.0…HES NUTS!!!

(The second part is spell "korvecdal" before you think the "c" is a "e"

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[pokken]

Let's just have the cards do all the things, that sounds good. :D But it's fair cos it costs G

[heridfel]

Well, dang. I was already looking at Flare of Cultivation, but here is another mono-green/non-colorless-required card to consider. The tricky part is that the activated ability wants cheap creatures to activate it, while giving the greatest benefit with larger creatures. I am not sure my own deck would benefit much from it, but I am sure others would.

At least he will likely be too expensive to interest me anyway.

[duducrash]

Let's just have the cards do all the things, that sounds good. :D But it's fair cos it costs G

Hey, I'm shocked they contained themselves to not let it play lands from the top.

@PrimevalCommander the thing for me is getting the colorless mana. Thats what I can't reliably do. Might bea good thing, would be busted

[Lifeless]

I feel like this would be exceptional even if only had the top 2 or the bottom ability. Having them all is modern MTG design in a nutshell.

[Mookie]

Holy….cow!

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Eldamari 2.0…HES NUTS!!!

(The second part is spell "korvecdal" before you think the "c" is a "e"

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Looks strong. It provides both mana acceleration (by cheating stuff out) and card advantage (by playing stuff off the top), which is classic 'danger, danger!' material.

I don't quite think Eladamri 2.0 is broken - Elvish Piper and Howlpack Piper // Wildsong Howler exist (and easier to cheat stuff out with), as do Augur of Autumn, Elven Chorus, and Vizier of the Menagerie. Still, the fact that you get both halves in the command zone is quite strong, and I also think Eladamri is an easy inclusion in creature-heavy decks that were already considering other Future Sight effects.

...I suppose 'T1 mana dork → T2 Eladamri → T3 any other creature' lets you cheat out an Eldrazi or other fatty. Not consistent, but certainly scary when it works.

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[DirkGently]

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...I suppose 'T1 mana dork → T2 Eladamri → T3 any other creature' lets you cheat out an Eldrazi or other fatty. Not consistent, but certainly scary when it works.

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Seems reasonably consistent to me. There are 7 1mv mana dorks by my count. All you need after that point is 2 forests, another cheap creature, and a fatty. In principal you could also get there off non-creature ramp like a sol ring or Wild Growth or whatever, though then you'd need 2 cheap dudes (though those cards aren't as synergistic ofc).

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[CommanderMaster999]

….OOOOH



They made… a strictly better Scurry Oak so exactly the same combos but can get even more because of death trigger stuff.

Oh and now we got the non leaked version of this



And on further inspect on the ability….oh man I just realized this

It copy's this stuff. (Thus meaning you can ramp even faster)

[duducrash]

I'll tell you what. I hate the "if a ______ ability would trigger, that ability triggers an aditional time"

It was cool with Panharmonicon if was crushing in Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines , but now its just common, its everywhere, every set.

@CommanderMaster999 it does copy a sol ring, but tbh you are already at least 6 mana before, a copy of Sol Ring would be the least of our problems if copied

[pokken]

(high content post in response to panfartmonicon)

:fart noise:

[CommanderMaster999]

I'll tell you what. I hate the "if a ______ ability would trigger, that ability triggers an aditional time"

It was cool with Panharmonicon if was crushing in Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines , but now its just common, its everywhere, every set.

@CommanderMaster999 it does copy a sol ring, but tbh you are already at least 6 mana before, a copy of Sol Ring would be the least of our problems if copied

So the more expensive rocks can be copied

But truthfully the enchantment is more psycho than that

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It's not legendary and a eldrazi spell so Uladek can make a second one and pretty much create a triple trigger and making two more copies of spells

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[yeti1069]

I'll tell you what. I hate the "if a ______ ability would trigger, that ability triggers an aditional time"

It was cool with Panharmonicon if was crushing in Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines , but now its just common, its everywhere, every set.

I agree. There are 22 'triggers trigger again' cards, and it looks like half of them have come out in the last year or so.

@CommanderMaster999 it does copy a sol ring, but tbh you are already at least 6 mana before, a copy of Sol Ring would be the least of our problems if copied

Well, since most worthwhile eldrazi are 10+ mana, you drop this, then next turn cast a Sol Ring and play a land. Now you've gone from 7 mana to 10.

[PrimevalCommander]

@CommanderMaster999 I like the card images, but can you make them about 1/2 the size? They are huge