Esika Oath Control - Brainstorming

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago



So I've been itching to make another draw-go deck since I took apart my Aminatou, the Fateshifter deck, and one thing I've always liked is Oath of Druids the vintage deck.

I was thinking that Esika, God of the Tree // The Prismatic Bridge as a draw-go control deck that looks to flash her in at the end step and then "win" by untapping into mana defending a Consecrated Sphinx or whatever dumb bomb would be fun (for me).

So I'm thinking about making very low investment ways to flash in the Bridge, like Alchemist's Refuge and Winding Canyons and a very lightweight ramp package (like a few Cultivate, Growth Spiral type stuff, etc., maybe Life from the Loam and Exploration from the Phelddagrif package).

The bombs package something like: Brainstorming topics:
1. What's the sweeper balance look like?
2. What's the optimal 'if this fattie resolves I will win the game if I have a grip full of removal and counterspells' set? Obviously if Griselbrand was around that'd be the right thing :P
3. Any other sweet tech I'm not thinking of?

Tags:

User avatar
Ruiner
Posts: 612
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Ruiner » 2 years ago

Maybe Serra Avatar? It swings for a crazy amount generally, especially if you plan on having a grip of removal to clear a path. Non-exile enemy removal just puts it back in your deck to come back out again. Normally a big mana investment but that doesn't matter here. It's a fun old school casual finisher too.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Ruiner wrote:
2 years ago
Maybe Serra Avatar? It swings for a crazy amount generally, especially if you plan on having a grip of removal to clear a path. Non-exile enemy removal just puts it back in your deck to come back out again. Normally a big mana investment but that doesn't matter here. It's a fun old school casual finisher too.
If it had lifelink or something for sure but I expect this deck to use its life total as a resource quite a lot, just getting hit and fetchlands and such unfortunately.

Honestly considering Resolute Archangel or something similar for preventing the bleeding.

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4629
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Winding canyons can't flash in bridge.

I'm not sure what the point of flashing it in is, though, tbh. She triggers on upkeep, so as long as bridge isn't removed, you'll untap, get a fatty, and be prepared to defend it right away. Even if it dies it's sorta whatever, just wait until next turn and get another one. The only advantage of flash is that I guess she's protected from sorcery-speed removal, but if you just saved the mana you spend to activate alchemists you could just keep a counterspell up.

Con sphinx seems like small ball tbh. You don't care about cmc and you have access to every card. Praetors come to mind. Eldrazi titans come to mind. Planeswalkers could be potentially be good although I don't think any have quite the immediate impact of Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur.

Red sweepers probably do the best job of killing small-stuff-only while leaving your fatties alive, although you probably want some full wipes just in case. Alternately you could just play 30 wipes and focus on planeswalkers and indestructible creatures (hi Ulamog x2). Free counters to protect Esika seem important for a powerful meta, which is where I hope you'll be playing this because it's going to be unbelievably gross.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Winding canyons can't flash in bridge.

I'm not sure what the point of flashing it in is, though, tbh. She triggers on upkeep, so as long as bridge isn't removed, you'll untap, get a fatty, and be prepared to defend it right away. Even if it dies it's sorta whatever, just wait until next turn and get another one. The only advantage of flash is that I guess she's protected from sorcery-speed removal, but if you just saved the mana you spend to activate alchemists you could just keep a counterspell up.

Con sphinx seems like small ball tbh. You don't care about cmc and you have access to every card. Praetors come to mind. Eldrazi titans come to mind. Planeswalkers could be potentially be good although I don't think any have quite the immediate impact of Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur.

Red sweepers probably do the best job of killing small-stuff-only while leaving your fatties alive, although you probably want some full wipes just in case. Alternately you could just play 30 wipes and focus on planeswalkers and indestructible creatures (hi Ulamog x2). Free counters to protect Esika seem important for a powerful meta, which is where I hope you'll be playing this because it's going to be unbelievably gross.
Oh good call on canyons, been a while since I used it and mentally shorthanded it in with refuge.

The point of flashing it in is to avoid tapping out for it during a turn when someone else might try to win or play something we can't recover from (My meta goes pretty hard but they mostly go at sorcery speed, so if I wait until someone's end step I'm not likely to die to Tooth and Nail into Avenger of Zendikar + Purphoros, God of the Forge or whatever nonsense.

Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is a pretty solid one! I don't think any of the other praetors or eldrazi are any good because what I want to do is ensure that whatever card I stick generates a comical stream of counterspells and removal so I can be sure I can defend them. I don't need to kill them fast I just need to keep drawing cards.

Serra's Emissary is actually a stretch but being immune to creature combat is probably good enough as a silver bullet type card? I dunno.

Consecrated Sphinx I think -- basically impossible anyone wins the game if I put a CSphinx in when I'm untapped and pass the turn. The +6 cards (minimum) it generates per turn cycle is the key there. Very few things do that. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is a much better rip than Sire of Stagnation (although it does go bananas against some decks, it's inconsistent).

Red sweepers could be pretty good. I do really love how efficient Blasphemous Act is. I'm trying top steer clear of Planeswalkers on account of that synergy is a touch, er, blatant? I'm thinking about staying away from most wipes and leaning hard on removal/counterspells/etc. Wipes are a pretty strong obvious synergy though so thinking about a number of efficient creature-focused wipes, and maybe Hour of Revelation for before Esika.

My thinking is that I'd like to try to see if I can pinpoint answer most stuff somewhat tempo people out with the massive ramp from the Bridge churning out a gigantic fatty every turn.

It's definitely not the optimal way to play the deck, but I think it'll be right power level for the mid-high powered group. Having to make a ton of decisions about what to remove/counter vs. just spamming sweepers feels somewhat testing?

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 3999
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

Emergence Zone is what you're after in lieu of Winding Canyons. In a vacuum its a once off, but I'm sure it could see further uses without too much brain wrinkling.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

User avatar
DirkGently
My wins are unconditional
Posts: 4629
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
The point of flashing it in is to avoid tapping out for it during a turn when someone else might try to win or play something we can't recover from (My meta goes pretty hard but they mostly go at sorcery speed, so if I wait until someone's end step I'm not likely to die to Tooth and Nail into Avenger of Zendikar + Purphoros, God of the Forge or whatever nonsense.
I mean, if you have enough mana to activate a land to grant flash, you're not tapping out by casting a 5 mana spell. And if you're casting it on 5 mana off a little ramp I'd think you'd usually be safe from an entwined T&N, especially if you're running free counters.

Plus there's just not many ways to give it flash so you'd need a ton of tutors to make it reliable, when those could have just been ramp and/or free counters, so you have counters up instead.

I suspect it'll be really unpleasant to play against outside of near-cEDH, but I guess we'll see what your meta thinks.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

User avatar
ISBPathfinder
Bebopin
Posts: 2176
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: SD, USA

Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

Theoretically you could design it like a polymorph style of deck with a super creature light approach and the few you run being super crazy kill everyone kind of threats. This probably turns into some sort of Eldrazi / Praetor kind of setup but if every trigger gets you some big 8+ mana kind of creature / planeswalker it would be powerful.
[EDH] Vadrok List (Suicide Chads) | Evelyn List (Vamp Mill) | Sanwell List | Danitha List | Indominus List | Ratadrabik List

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
2 years ago
Theoretically you could design it like a polymorph style of deck with a super creature light approach and the few you run being super crazy kill everyone kind of threats. This probably turns into some sort of Eldrazi / Praetor kind of setup but if every trigger gets you some big 8+ mana kind of creature / planeswalker it would be powerful.
Yeah that's kinda what I'm thinking. I don't think Eldrazis are the ticket honestly - annihilator is both unfun and doesn't refill my hand though without the cast triggers.

I'm thinking things that give me unassailable card advantage or basically invulnerability. And it doesn't hurt if they're efficient enough for me to hardcast them if needed.

Kinda stalling out on more ideas though lol. I like Vilis, Jin and CSphinx pretty well, and Niv Parun is not bad, but beyond that nothing really coming up.

User avatar
ISBPathfinder
Bebopin
Posts: 2176
Joined: 5 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: SD, USA

Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
2 years ago
Theoretically you could design it like a polymorph style of deck with a super creature light approach and the few you run being super crazy kill everyone kind of threats. This probably turns into some sort of Eldrazi / Praetor kind of setup but if every trigger gets you some big 8+ mana kind of creature / planeswalker it would be powerful.
Yeah that's kinda what I'm thinking. I don't think Eldrazis are the ticket honestly - annihilator is both unfun and doesn't refill my hand though without the cast triggers.

I'm thinking things that give me unassailable card advantage or basically invulnerability. And it doesn't hurt if they're efficient enough for me to hardcast them if needed.

Kinda stalling out on more ideas though lol. I like Vilis, Jin and CSphinx pretty well, and Niv Parun is not bad, but beyond that nothing really coming up.
Stormtide Leviathan, Serra's Emissary, Blazing Archon, and Avacyn, Angel of Hope could all fit that idea of heavily defensive options.
[EDH] Vadrok List (Suicide Chads) | Evelyn List (Vamp Mill) | Sanwell List | Danitha List | Indominus List | Ratadrabik List

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Avacyn, Angel of Hope is a good one for sure! I have Emissary on the list as a maybe, but kinda iffy on it. It is big at least.

Avacyn is really nice since you can "combo" her with stuff like Jokulhaups which is incidentally rather good with Esika in the first place :P Although just combos well with sweepers as well. The downside is not providing any inherent card advantage.

Another one I had forgotten is Tidespout Tyrant which can generate some infinite combos as well if I so desire (combination of two moxen / sol ring / mana crypt).

And I could probably justify Seedborn Muse as a "win condition" level card I guess =P


User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1870
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by darrenhabib » 2 years ago

Sphinx of the Second Sun is a freebie as you get another upkeep, etc.

Personally if your going for full control (i.e. lots of cheap counterspells) then I'd go for Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. This is the most "I win" if you can dodge removal.

Make sure you run some fairly low to slot in cards that put cards back into your library in case you draw your targets. Brainstorm, Valakut Awakening, Fire Prophecy are go to cards for me.
Pays to have Volrath's Stronghold so that you can put your target back into library as well if killed.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

darrenhabib wrote:
2 years ago
Sphinx of the Second Sun is a freebie as you get another upkeep, etc.

Personally if your going for full control (i.e. lots of cheap counterspells) then I'd go for Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. This is the most "I win" if you can dodge removal.

Make sure you run some fairly low to slot in cards that put cards back into your library in case you draw your targets. Brainstorm, Valakut Awakening, Fire Prophecy are go to cards for me.
Pays to have Volrath's Stronghold so that you can put your target back into library as well if killed.
I'm definitely Scroll Rack.dec'ing it up :)

Sphinx is a great call for sure.

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 2 years ago

Any planeswalkers being considered? Ugin, Nicol Bolas and Karn are probably the top contenders, though I like Liliana, Dreadhorde General ability to do a mini wrath.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 years ago
Any planeswalkers being considered? Ugin, Nicol Bolas and Karn are probably the top contenders, though I like Liliana, Dreadhorde General ability to do a mini wrath.
Of those Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is on my potential list since he can take over the game and also be used to dodge wiping Esika. The problem he has is against higher cmc generals. Cards like Consecrated Sphinx just let me blow removal on whatever because I'll draw so many more cards, Ugin has to remove whatever is a problem himself. And ideally not remove Esika.

User avatar
Outcryqq
Posts: 441
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Indiana, USA

Post by Outcryqq » 2 years ago

I guess your sweepers should probably be either Duneblast, In Garruk's Wake, or the white ones where everyone chooses one, and destroys the rest (Tragic Arrogance is one, but I know there are a few others, and I think the white gearhulk does it too). Lets you keep esika, destroy the rest.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Outcryqq wrote:
2 years ago
I guess your sweepers should probably be either Duneblast, In Garruk's Wake, or the white ones where everyone chooses one, and destroys the rest (Tragic Arrogance is one, but I know there are a few others, and I think the white gearhulk does it too). Lets you keep esika, destroy the rest.
There're really two phases of the game for this deck; phase 1 before the bridge you want efficient sweepers like Supreme Verdict and Toxic Deluge and Hour of Revelation that clean house for the bridge. Then after that you want loads of spot removal and maybe one or two one-sided sweepers.

The package I am thinking of so far is:

early sweepers
endgame sweepers
And my fat package so far is:
With Koz there more to be a shuffle my stuff back in effect in a longer game than anything.

My thinking is to lean very heavily on targeted removal and counterspells and try to live dangerously allowing as many things to go as long as I can.

kraus911
Posts: 137
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by kraus911 » 2 years ago

I know it messes with the purity of your deck goals since it's not as beefy as your other creatures, but Faeburrow Elder is still a 5/5 vigilance with Bridge out and if you're stuck with any of your fatties in hand, or want to hard cast Kozi, would certainly help you out.

I also think, depending on your meta, Obliterate and Jokulhaups have a place here. Obliterate is spendier but can't be countered is significant, though the extra 2 mana could be used to counter the counter on your Jokulhaups.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

kraus911 wrote:
2 years ago
I also think, depending on your meta, Obliterate and Jokulhaups have a place here. Obliterate is spendier but can't be countered is significant, though the extra 2 mana could be used to counter the counter on your Jokulhaups.
I don't hate the idea of MLD with Esika out to close the game but I'm not sure it's really necessary? I think that if I stick a CSphinx or whatever I'll probably be able to ride it plus whatever subsequent fatties to victory.

Arebennian
Posts: 100
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Arebennian » 2 years ago

Nezahal, Primal Tide [/card] If you are looking for a fatty that draws cards?

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Arebennian wrote:
2 years ago
Nezahal, Primal Tide [/card] If you are looking for a fatty that draws cards?
It's strong but I don't think it's quite explosive enough draw-wise. Jin and CSphinx are kinda the benchmark. It might be better than Avacyn actually though, will have to noodle on that.

Arebennian
Posts: 100
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Arebennian » 2 years ago

How about Koma, Cosmos Serpent? It's a pretty hard to remove threat that can take over the game and control the board and provides you with blockers.

I'm interested on your take on this thing in general too as part of the 99 of control/midrange builds.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6434
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Arebennian wrote:
2 years ago
How about Koma, Cosmos Serpent? It's a pretty hard to remove threat that can take over the game and control the board and provides you with blockers.

I'm interested on your take on this thing in general too as part of the 99 of control/midrange builds.
Hrm, it's fairly strong and hardish to remove. But unlike in typical control decks I don't want to be spending a ton of effort drawing cards, to allow more room for interaction and a little bit of ramp/fixing.

Your typical Magic control deck plays a ton of card draw, removal, and 1-4 win conditions. In Commander we need to be able to kill multiple people so controlling the game long enough to beat someone to death with an Aetherling doesn't work so people usually use infinite combos as the endgame for their control elements.

My goal here is for once I drop Esika with all my interaction stockpiled is to chain massive card advantage off most of my hits.

That said, my lineup is not perfect - if I hit say, Sun Sphinx into Kozilek, or just Avacyn, that's not going to do anything to refill my hand much. I do have quite a bit of topdeck control but maybe not enough.

There really aren't quite enough 'take over the game card advantage' level critters I've thought of yet. Might be that Vilis, Broker of Blood really is right since he turns fetchlands into potential Ancestral Recall's :P

User avatar
Outcryqq
Posts: 441
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Indiana, USA

Post by Outcryqq » 2 years ago

I recommended it a while back when you didn't say anything, but I think Asmodeus the Archfiend is as close to explosive card draw to Consecrated Sphinx and Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur that you'll get. Maybe it's too mana-intensive? But BBBB: draw 7 is a pretty strong rate.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”