[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Electrolyze

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 8 months ago

This can be fun in token decks, since you're likely to be using fewer creatures in those decks anyway. Sprout Swarm looks like it would be fun with this; to a lesser extent, Recruit the Worthy and Lab Rats could also be used. (Really any buyback spells. You also have the ones we all use like Whispers of the Muse, Prohibit, Searing Touch, and Constant Mists.) As parasitic as it is, Memory Crystal can also be nice.
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Post by onering » 8 months ago

The amount of value he generates in the right decks is absurd. Even in decks that aren't tuned to abuse him hes a great value engine and potential wincon. He can put a lot of damage through, the tokens having prowes is huge. Any white deck with 25 non creatures can use him in a good stuff slot, though obviously not an autoinclude because many decks don't have good stuff slots to spare.

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Post by toctheyounger » 8 months ago

It's a grossly strong card. Purely because it's sort of it's own engine. So long as you're playing ramp spells, rocks, whatever, it'll give you value.

I can see why it costs so much but it's yet another one I wish didn't cost so much. (Seems like I'm saying this about every rcotd at the moment lol)
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Post by Mookie » 8 months ago

Monastery Mentor is a pretty significant upgrade over Young Pyromancer - works well with artifacts and enchantments, and prowess means that the tokens can be legitimate threats once you start going off. Not quite as strong as it is in Vintage - can't play it turn 1 and follow up with a bunch of zero mana artifacts - but still a reasonable inclusion, especially if you want a way to pivot a bunch of cantrips (or Sensei's Divining Top) into a bunch of threats.

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Post by 3drinks » 8 months ago

Thursday, December 5th, 2019; Sultai Charm

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Post by DirkGently » 8 months ago

The flexibility is decent, but at 3cmc you're competing with beast within and losing badly. I'd probably only run it if I cared about having many colours (I.e. Ramos).

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Post by Dunharrow » 8 months ago

Versatility is nice but look at Assassin's Trophy, Beast Within, Abrupt Decay, ...

This probably has a good matchup with Putrefy.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 8 months ago

What you get in versatility you pay for in CMC as these colors have 1-2 mana spells that cover each mode. I couldn't justify it personally unless I absolutely had to have "three cards in one" due to a lack of available slots. Even then it would be a tough sell.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 8 months ago

It does have some potential in reanimator (and the obligatory "double draw with looting"), but you are competing with Beast Within, though you'll probably run both TBH. (Along with Putrefy, Hero's Downfall, Murderous Rider, Maelstrom Pulse...People think you need "an" answer in your deck. This is false. You need an answer in a relevant zone.)
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Post by onering » 8 months ago

I don't think it's particularly productive to compare this to Bea's within, because beast is an all star removal spell. Sultai isn't the best charm, and I think I talked about it a bit the last time a 3 color charm came up, but it has value when the reason you are running it is as an instant speed loot spell, and It's in the right colors for that to be good. A somewhat overcosted draw spell that gets something to the yard in Sultai that can remove a problem creature, artifact, or enchantment in a pinch is pretty decent. This shouldn't be competing with Beast, it should be competing with Sign in Blood.

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Post by Mookie » 8 months ago

Ran Sultai Charm in Tasigur for a while (mostly for a bit of flavor, to be honest), but eventually cut it - I used it almost exclusively for its Naturalize mode, and three mana is a bit much for that. Creature kill mode is fine but narrow, and misses most commanders. Looting mode was redundant with activating Tasigur.

I don't think it's a bad card, but like other charms, you're paying a premium for the flexibility. It also suffers a bit from competing with Beast Within, Maelstrom Pulse, Assassin's Trophy, Nature's Claim, and all the other premium removal available in those colors. You really need to value the loot mode, which gets outclassed by Fact or Fiction and other actual draw spells.

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Post by 3drinks » 8 months ago

Fruday, December 6th, 2019; Puppeteer Clique



I remember the days this was the stone cold nuts of a $20usd bill, and nowadays this is a bulk rare. Has this really fallen by the wayside so much?
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Post by Mookie » 8 months ago

3drinks wrote:
8 months ago
I remember the days this was the stone cold nuts of a $20usd bill, and nowadays this is a bulk rare. Has this really fallen by the wayside so much?
Checking various price histories, looks like it peaked at around $6, and fell significantly when it was reprinted. Not entirely surprising that it fell - that's true of pretty much every card from the pre-mythic era, due to increased card circulation over time.

I do think it's fallen down in the rankings though - partly because better five drop creatures have been printed, and partly because decks tend to be more synergistic. I've tested it out in a few decks, but it always ended up getting cut in favor of cards that worked better with my own deck. It's fantastic in a counter-based deck like Mikaeus the Unhallowed, Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest, or Marchesa, the Black Rose. But outside those decks, reanimating random creatures your opponents have in their graveyards can be a bit inconsistent - sometimes amazing, sometimes negligible. It's almost always better to reanimate creatures from your own graveyard, since you have a lot more control over it. Temporary reanimation also limit it. There's the theoretical base case of reanimating Sakura-Tribe Elder twice, but that doesn't actually always happen. Also a bit of tension with Bojuka Bog and other grave hate, since you need to leave targets for it.

Still, there are some fun things you can do with it - the reanimated creatures only get exiled at end of turn, so if you have a sacrifice outlet, you can recur them multiple times. Alternatively, it can serve as grave hate in a pinch. It's also trivially easy to reset its persist and go infinite with it, at which point recurring anything with a useful effect can serve as a win condition, as can it functioning as a Rise of the Dark Realms that grants haste.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 8 months ago

It's not a premium reanimation spell by any means, but I loved it in my old Ghave, Guru of Spores deck where I could slap a counter on it and sac the reanimated critter before it got exiled so I could get it again. If you can find a similar way to abuse persist you can get some great value out of it.

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Post by tstorm823 » 8 months ago

Mookie wrote:
8 months ago
I do think it's fallen down in the rankings though - partly because better five drop creatures have been printed, and partly because decks tend to be more synergistic. I've tested it out in a few decks, but it always ended up getting cut in favor of cards that worked better with my own deck.
It's also gotten worse because of synergy in the opposite direction: opponents decks have gotten more synergistic instead of playing single-card threats, so reanimating one thing of their's is less bomby than it used to be.
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Post by 3drinks » 8 months ago

Three posts in and already I find this to be such a fascinating discussion - especially on the POV that opposing decks are more synergistic and less single threat mode. This is going to be a good one I think.
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Post by Dunharrow » 8 months ago

I play it in Marchesa, the Black Rose. Too much value. I can do it turn after turn. I can keep their creatures permanently if I want. It unfortunately goes infinite with a sac outlet and one of two cards in the deck - Mikaeus and Sage of Fables. All these cards are so individually synergistic with Marchesa and most of the deck that I can't imagine cutting them.
When you are getting this kind of value from PC, it is okay if all you are reanimating is a Wood Elves or whatever... you can do it so many times.
The deck also plays a lot of edicts and plays altar of dementia, so I rarely have situations where there are no targets.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 8 months ago

I really like Puppeteer Clique even in today's meta. Still useful in attrition based decks and metas that are not super optimized. The Persist keeps this card relevant for me, as you can get multiple uses out of it with sac outlets. I unfortunately did pay $20 for the Eventide foil just months before the reprint :mad: , same with Hallowed Burial, which I still play as well.

Seems to have lost some appeal, but I still see it as underplayed because Graveyards are a huge resource and all your opponents combined usually have a larger graveyard than you, barring self mill. The synergy can come from using the Clique itself, not from the cards it reanimates. It is flexible in that it can grab effects that you may not have available in your collors. Mono Black can steal a Reclamation Sage or any creature that can deal with an artifact or enchantment. This situation cannot be counted on every time, though I find plenty of good targets for Puppeteer Clique in any situation other than my opening hand. If that happens, I'm usually just throwing it out there for a Solemn Simulacrum or two if I have a sac outlet by then.

One of the cards close to my heart. Has done a lot of work for me and still does. Fun to chain Clones or other players Reanimate creatures to build a large board fast. Have seen silly plays if an opponent gets a Sepulchural Primordial in the grave. Also mentioned it can function as Grave Hate while still allowing some aggression with hasted threats.

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Post by Sinis » 8 months ago

3drinks wrote:
8 months ago
Fruday, December 6th, 2019; Puppeteer Clique
I think it's partly that, pre-WotC recognition, the format was much more casual on average. There were less social media resources, forums with less traffic, etc.

Puppeteer clique used to be a kind of good catch-all; graveyard hate (the persist could be leveraged at instant speed, too), a surprise attacker (or blocker), a semi-resilient flier. You pay a premium with 5 CMC, but, you get a lot of options on just one card.

In the last 10 years or so, many more powerful cards have been printed, and it is an opinion of mine that a design principle seems to be that 6 CMC is the zenith where things are certifiably bonkers. The Titans, Rishkar's Expertise, Consecrated Sphinx.... At some point, 5 CMC swiss-army knives got left at the side of the road. Probably when decks just kind of became more streamlined than they were when Puppeteer Clique was in heavy use.

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Post by Serenade » 8 months ago

I had PClique out and Geth had Darksteel Plate equipped.
I played Life's Finale, finding Prime Time and some smaller critters.
When PClique came back, I got a hasty PT (four lands for me and no chance for opponent to get back!). Can't remember if Amulet or Vigor was out for Geth to use that mana for the other creatures, but I think it was a scoop anyway.

So it holds a special place for me, too.
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Post by pokken » 8 months ago

I love this card in theory but it's always so situational and it's expensive, so I always wind up cutting it. I don't think I have ever used it in a game despite having it in decks a lot.
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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 8 months ago

It's a good Melira or Cathars' Crusade or Mikaeus combo in theory. But it's honestly not the best reanimator spell. For 1 more you get Phyrexian Delver. And most of the time, I'm hating out my opponents' graveyards in other ways. For 2 more you get Sheoldred, Whispering One. For the same cost, you get Living Death or Unburial Rites. For a lot less, you get a lot of sorceries and enchantments that are frankly iconic reanimation spells: Reanimate, Life // Death, Animate Dead...

The best thing to say about it is, it has flying, which can be useful in decks that tend to lack a defense against flying. That said, if you're in black, you have a fist full of removal anyway.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 8 months ago

I used to use Puppeteer Clique a LOT more in the past. Back in the day when the legendary rule would kill two legends people ran more clones and you could clique clone a commander for some easy removal. We also had Primeval Titans running about everywhere and OBVIOUSLY I want to rez and attack with him and maybe sac it and then the clique to do it again.

I still think it can be a fantastic card but I think we have opened up a lot of other strategies other than ETB goodstuff. Back when we had clones killing commanders and tucking commanders it felt like there were more goodstuff decks out there. I feel like there has been a degrading of value in this card with how a lot of things in the game have changed.

Its still a reasonable card, but it used to be far stronger in my opinion.
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Post by 3drinks » 8 months ago

I know I'm still happy to play it in Alesha, despite the anti synergy with the two, but mostly I'm happy to run it in Rakdos alongside Dire Fleet Daredevil to sometimes get effects I'm not allowed to have. I think that's probably it's best role in today's climate.
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Post by 3drinks » 8 months ago

Saturday, December 7th, 2019; Memory Jar



Is this still the powerhouse it was during combo winter?
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