Nadu, Winged Wisdom - There is a new King of the cEDH table

[darrenhabib]

Nadu, Winged Wisdom - There is a new King of the cEDH table

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander

1 Nadu, Winged Wisdom

Continuous targeting

1 Elvish Herder

1 Indigo Faerie

1 Unctus, Grand Metatect

Untap (self)

1 Aphetto Alchemist

1 Seeker of Skybreak

Equipment

1 Shuko

1 Lightning Greaves

1 Umbral Mantle

Landfall

1 Bristly Bill, Spine Sower

1 Lotus Cobra

1 Springheart Nantuko

1 Retreat to Coralhelm

1 Scute Swarm

Mana creatures

1 Arbor Elf

1 Birds of Paradise

1 Boreal Druid

1 Delighted Halfling

1 Elvish Mystic

1 Fyndhorn Elves

1 Llanowar Elves

1 Joraga Treespeaker

1 Gilded Goose

1 Elvish Spirit Guide

Creatures (other)

1 Caustic Caterpillar

1 Haywire Mite

1 Sylvan Safekeeper

1 Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student

1 Collector Ouphe

1 Gilded Drake

1 Volatile Stormdrake

1 Spellskite

1 Thassa's Oracle

Enchantment

1 Mystic Remora

1 Sylvan Library

1 Rhystic Study

Sorcery

1 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Finale of Devastation

Battle

1 Invasion of Ikoria // Zilortha, Apex of Ikoria

Instants

1 Pact of Negation

1 Mental Misstep

1 An Offer You Can't Refuse

1 Dispel

1 Flusterstorm

1 Swan Song

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Flare of Denial

1 Force of Negation

1 Mindbreak Trap

1 Force of Will

1 Pongify

1 Rapid Hybridization

1 Cyclonic Rift

1 Force of Vigor

1 Chain of Vapor

1 March of Swirling Mist

1 Sea Kings' Blessing

1 Sylvan Paradise

1 Sway of Illusion

1 Legolas's Quick Reflexes

1 Tamiyo's Safekeeping

1 Tyvar's Stand

1 Veil of Summer

1 Noxious Revival

1 Mystical Tutor

1 Worldly Tutor

Artifacts

1 Chrome Mox

1 Jeweled Lotus

1 Lotus Petal

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mox Amber

1 Mox Diamond

1 Sol Ring

Lands (27)

1 Island

1 Snow-Covered Island

1 Forest

1 Command Tower

1 Rejuvenating Springs

1 Tropical Island

1 Breeding Pool

1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge

1 Otawara, Soaring City

1 Tolaria

1 Boseiju, Who Endures

1 Dryad Arbor

1 Gaea's Cradle

1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers

1 Pendelhaven

1 Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Field of the Dead

1 Gemstone Caverns

1 Urza's Saga

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Verdant Catacombs

1 Wooded Foothills

1 Windswept Heath

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Polluted Delta

1 Flooded Strand

Approximate Total Cost:

Aphetto Alchemist and Seeker of Skybreak can keep untapping themselves, getting 2x triggers each turn and even untap another creature just before your turn for another trigger. So in a four player game, good for 9x triggers.

Equipment that have Equip 0 can be used to get the full set of triggers off your creatures during your turn.

There is targeting with one mana, so that you can use unspent mana on triggering.
Elvish Herder requires g.
Indigo Faerie requires u.
Unctus, Grand Metatect can only be used as a sorcery, but it does allow you to target all your creatures for the turn with life loss and it does combo with Aphetto Alchemist and Seeker of Skybreak filtering through your deck.

Landfall cards that allow you to target a creature with each land you put into play.
Bristly Bill and Retreat to Coralhelm.
Springheart Nantuko, Scute Swarm, Field of the Dead all produce token creatures with each land you put into play.
Lotus Cobra will help with the continuous targeting strategy, as well as just simply casting your spells.

Sea Kings' Blessing, Sylvan Paradise, Sway of Illusion can target all your creatures, so is are powerful cards for the engine.

Legolas's Quick Reflexes combos with Aphetto Alchemist or Seeker of Skybreak to kill off opponents creatures.

Spellskite can be used to double up on targeting triggers.
For example you use Elvish Herder to target a creature and then you use Spellskite to also target itself. Very mana efficient at the cost of life.

There are lands that can target your creatures if you are without other enablers.
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers, Pendelhaven, Minamo, School at Water's Edge, Tolaria.

Collector Ouphe is a nonbo with equipment, but in general the deck works fine around it and stops a lot of cEDH strategies.

Just in general card selection has been made with creatures in mind. So many fast mana sources are going to be creature based rather than alternative choices.
Lots of one mana creatures with utility for this reason.

You put most of your lands into play and draw your deck within a few turns.
You can win with either Thassa's Oracle or Finale of Devastation.
Field of the Dead can overwhelm opponents with control backup.

Best against the rest
This deck doesn't care about stax. You don't need to be casting many spells, under a stax board you are happy to just keep putting lands into play and drawing cards.
There are no real "hoser" cards for this card advantage engine. Note it is not even drawing, so Spirit of the Labyrinth or Orcish Bowmasters don't effect the strategy.
Graveyard hate is completely useless against the deck.

[pokken]

With only 26 lands and fetchlands I don't think landfall is going to be reliable really. At least not fast enough. Might want to find a way to turn cards into creatures. Since it doesn't draw it's a little problematic to do that but maybe there are some discard outlets?

An analog to Zombie Infestation feels or something that discarded cards to tap would both set up near infinites. Will have to see what the hive mind finds :D

I think Thousand-Year Elixir is probably a slam dunk here since it's a reliable way to get team haste for untappers and such.

Opposition is both a wincon and a free targeting outlet that might be worth thinking on.

I dunno. This card seems bananas, so dumb it's almost not worth thinking about. :D


Stuff I found
-Scuttletide makes crab tokens from cards. :]
-Ayula's Influence turns cards into dudes. So would go near infinite with opposition...except for the land clause lol

But it seems like without the en kor guys your main bottleneck for an infinite is infinite targeting.


(I see this is the cedh sub so ymmv all around)

[TheGildedGoose]

An analog to Zombie Infestation feels or something that discarded cards to tap would both set up near infinites. Will have to see what the hive mind finds :D

Mind Over Matter

I dunno. This card seems bananas, so dumb it's almost not worth thinking about. :D

Completely insane.

[darrenhabib]

With only 26 lands and fetchlands I don't think landfall is going to be reliable really. At least not fast enough. Might want to find a way to turn cards into creatures. Since it doesn't draw it's a little problematic to do that but maybe there are some discard outlets?

An analog to Zombie Infestation feels or something that discarded cards to tap would both set up near infinites. Will have to see what the hive mind finds :D

I think Thousand-Year Elixir is probably a slam dunk here since it's a reliable way to get team haste for untappers and such.

Opposition is both a wincon and a free targeting outlet that might be worth thinking on.

I dunno. This card seems bananas, so dumb it's almost not worth thinking about. :D


Stuff I found
-Scuttletide makes crab tokens from cards. :]
-Ayula's Influence turns cards into dudes. So would go near infinite with opposition...except for the land clause lol

But it seems like without the en kor guys your main bottleneck for an infinite is infinite targeting.


(I see this is the cedh sub so ymmv all around)

Good call on the landfall, I guess for each trigger there is a 1/4 chance of hitting a land, which is low.
Some number is still good, but defo shave some.

Of note nothing needs to be infinite, it got that Chulane, Teller of Tales feel that just a couple of turns go by and you have a massive land base and cards in hand that you've just won the game.

I did have Opposition and Mind over Matter in my potential pile. It just came down to mana cost.

Just purely on mana costs I'll go with Concordant Crossroads over Thousand-Year Elixir. But I could see running the Elixir easily as well.

I want to try out the discard outlets for creatures, great idea.

I'll need to play some games before I know how this all pans out with ratio of creatures to targeting outlets and how mana plays the biggest part in bottlenecks.

Added

• Scuttletide
• Ayula's Influence
• Concordant Crossroads

Removed

• Retreat to Kazandu
• Tatyova, Steward of Tides
• Turntimber Basilisk

[darrenhabib]

Aright spent some more time on the concept of this deck.
Found some gems in Sea Kings' Blessing, Sylvan Paradise, Sway of Illusion being able to target all your creatures.

This then lead me to think about the deck doesn't need to be about "combos", you can just out tempo your opponents such is the power of Nadu, Winged Wisdom as a draw and mana engine.
So I've removed most of the untap other creatures as they are slow to get going and require two of them to really get the party started.
Also the continues targeting, as I'm probably not going to have much spare mana.
With cards like Sea Kings' Blessing, Sylvan Paradise, Sway of Illusion your always going to have a full hand of cards, so why go over-the-top?

Anything that targets is a going to get replaced with either a card in hand or land ramp.
So it just makes sense to run additional instants that will protect Nadu, Winged Wisdom.
Also I've gone with Banishing Knack and Retraction Helix as they represent the tempo plan nicely. Draw or ramp, return a problematic card or in a pinch target your own creature for the additional trigger.

I also asked myself the question "What am I really willing to tap mana for in my turn to progress the game?"
I really want this deck to be played at instant speed, just deploying a few creatures would be the average turn.
It is very possible that I'm too low on my creature count. So I could see changing the config to have more one mana creatures that have some utility.

Added

• Sea Kings' Blessing
• Sylvan Paradise
• Sway of Illusion
• Tamiyo's Safekeeping
• Tyvar's Stand
• Banishing Knack
• Retraction Helix
• March of Swirling Mist
• Disrupting Shoal
• Rejuvenating Springs

Removed

• Unnatural Selection
• Neurok Transmuter
• Ioreth of the Healing House
• Forensic Researcher
• Kelpie Guide
• Vizier of Tumbling Sands
• Nissa, Resurgent Animist
• Roaring Earth
• Scuttletide
• Concordant Crossroads

[darrenhabib]

Alright, yes needed to increase the creature count, deck was far too reactive and needs to be getting creatures down to get traction better.

Added

• Indigo Faerie
• Caustic Caterpillar
• Haywire Mite
• Sylvan Safekeeper
• Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student
• Spellskite

Removed

• Banishing Knack
• Retraction Helix
• Brainstorm
• Resculpt
• Disrupting Shoal
• Nature's Claim

[pokken]

So I wonder if maybe focusing on just like...making 10 guys and then equipping Lightning Greaves to all of them twice is enough to overwhelm the game? Like end step make 6 tokens, untap and go bananas. Drawing 12 cards off of 6 tokens seems insane and consistent.

Another thing I was thinking about was...Living Plane and Earthcraft goes basically infinite right right on the drop right? (not quite infinite but...really close to it since every turn cycle each basic land untaps itself twice :D). I might be thinking of that wrong. But you gotta get the basic count high for that to work.

There might be something around Twiddle-storm deck concepts to think on too.

--

Setessan Tactics is a really funny one where you could make all your guys fight each other and draw a %$#% of cards.

(or with Living Plane one-sided land wipe after drawing a bunch of cards :D)


--

Candelabra of Tawnos and Living Plane go absolutely apeshit as well.

I think there might really be something to Living Plane / Nature's Revolt // Rude Awakening and then mass targeting effects.

The missing piece there would be critical mass of mass targeting effects I think, but by you could play some good cards too like March of Swirling Mist.

Seems like you're on a lo tof those effects already :D (e..g Sway of Illusion.

[darrenhabib]

So I wonder if maybe focusing on just like...making 10 guys and then equipping Lightning Greaves to all of them twice is enough to overwhelm the game? Like end step make 6 tokens, untap and go bananas. Drawing 12 cards off of 6 tokens seems insane and consistent.

I think how it will play out, is all you need is 5 creatures and you equip for 10 triggers, put 3 land into play and draw 7. And that just going to be too much for opponents to come back from.
Each one mana creature you play has a 47% chance to be cost free in the same turn, as you will trigger twice to put a land into play.
I'll add Urza's Saga for Shuko.

Another thing I was thinking about was manlands Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, Mutavault, Blinkmoth Nexus are all basically freebies, as you can tap themselves to make creatures for additional potential triggers. I would never replace them with colored lands, but I see these as more like spells, so a configuration where it would be 31 lands (instead of 27) and you could never be mad about them being colorless that way

Another thing I was thinking about was...Living Plane and Earthcraft goes basically infinite right right on the drop right? (not quite infinite but...really close to it since every turn cycle each basic land untaps itself twice :D). I might be thinking of that wrong. But you gotta get the basic count high for that to work.

There might be something around Twiddle-storm deck concepts to think on too.

Basics, what are basics?

Originally I was looking at the potential of Ashaya, Soul of the Wild an creatures that untap lands to combo like Seeker of Skybreak. An Arbor Elf untaps itself type of thing.

Earthcraft is always a powerful card. There are a number of options to make lands a creature, Tatyova, Steward of Tides being an example.
The only real setback is you can only get 2x triggers each turn for each individual basic.

I went through all the one mana instants that target earlier today and there were a number that stood out for untapping.
Cerulean Wisps, Shore Up, Triton Tactics will often be mana neutral, if not net you one.
You'd want to have more creatures that can tap for u or more.

[pokken]

Looks like the combo digs in on Shuko and Scute Swarm, per the hivemind :D

The piece we missed is Displacer Kitten which also goes absolutely ham with the deck since it resets the trigger count and can also protect bird.

[DirkGently]

The piece we missed is Displacer Kitten which also goes absolutely ham with the deck since it resets the trigger count and can also protect bird.

Is displacer kitten even necessary? Seems like overkill to me. 4 mana is a lot when you could very plausibly combo out on 3 mana.

Personally I'd consider putting in some Ornithopters and such, just so you can keep dropping dudes to get more triggers even without hitting lands. Then one 1mv blink spell and you're drawing 14 more cards or whatever.

Admittedly that strat does rely heavily on a free enabler like shuko, but kitten doesn't seem super useful when you're paying 1 mana per trigger either.

[darrenhabib]

The piece we missed is Displacer Kitten which also goes absolutely ham with the deck since it resets the trigger count and can also protect bird.

Is displacer kitten even necessary? Seems like overkill to me. 4 mana is a lot when you could very plausibly combo out on 3 mana.

Personally I'd consider putting in some Ornithopters and such, just so you can keep dropping dudes to get more triggers even without hitting lands. Then one 1mv blink spell and you're drawing 14 more cards or whatever.

Admittedly that strat does rely heavily on a free enabler like shuko, but kitten doesn't seem super useful when you're paying 1 mana per trigger either.

Yeah I had Displacer Kitten as a potential but it looked to be overkill.

I saw discussion of Springheart Nantuko, but can somebody clarify if I just cast it as a creature (no bestow), will if produce a 1/1 with each land? If so then I'm in.

[BlackbirdPlaysMTG]

Nice CEDH brew! There are some people playing CEDH in my shop and the bird might actually be a commander I am interested in. Also considering building him for a more casual setting (maybe a focus on auras or something that's similarly janky?), but this guy is so easy to break .

EDIT: How good is Ayula's Influence? Nadu + the gang is the main drawing engine and he puts all lands you reveal into play (not a may), so the only lands you can discard are the ones you draw for turn and those that you draw through Rhystic Study etc. There aren't that many drawing cards in the deck. Will the Influence create enough creatures to be worth a spot?

[darrenhabib]

Nice CEDH brew! There are some people playing CEDH in my shop and the bird might actually be a commander I am interested in. Also considering building him for a more casual setting (maybe a focus on auras or something that's similarly janky?), but this guy is so easy to break .

EDIT: How good is Ayula's Influence? Nadu + the gang is the main drawing engine and he puts all lands you reveal into play (not a may), so the only lands you can discard are the ones you draw for turn and those that you draw through Rhystic Study etc. There aren't that many drawing cards in the deck. Will the Influence create enough creatures to be worth a spot?

You're right, I read Ayula's Influence as discard any card. Very unlikely to have lands in hand at any stage of the game.

Good luck trying to make a casual version, you'll need it lol.