Avacyn, Angel of Hope - Mono-White 'Control'

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BlackbirdPlaysMTG
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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 months ago

Avacyn, Angel of Hope - Mono-White 'Control'


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Table of Contents




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A Short Introduction


Mono-white has been my second-favourite colour for a while and I currently do not have a mono-white deck. Considered my options and my eyes fell on Zeriam, Golden Wind (list here) and Avacyn, Angel of Hope. I have a slight preference for Avacyn. Running a 8-mana angel as my commander seems pretty cool to me. Avacyn offers indestructibility to your boardstate, which means that wraths and land destruction (if you want to go that route) become asymetrical. Initially I ran a lot of boardwipes (13!), but several commenters here pointed out that it might be better to that aspect of the deck down a little. The angel is also a powerful beater that can pressure your opponents reasonably well and her having vigilance means that she is a great blocker too.



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Current Decklist


Avacyn, Angel of Hope - Mono-White Control

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:




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Considerations & Chopping Block





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Changelog


Changelog

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Last edited by BlackbirdPlaysMTG 3 weeks ago, edited 14 times in total.

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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 2 months ago

I have been toying with the idea of something similar, mostly because I really liked Akroma, Angel of Wrath when I was young and I like "No Rest, No mercy, No Matter what" flavour test. and testing a bit Magus of the Moat (or moat itself if you have it) will be all stars

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 months ago

I think 40 is the right number of lands. With a 8 drop in the CZ, every bit of mana counts. When I was playing Maelstrom Wanderer I was playing forty lands and like 30% of the nonlands in that deck were pure ramp. Counting to 8 isn't enough, you gotta be also able to hit 10 and 12 just in case.
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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 months ago

duducrash wrote:
2 months ago
I have been toying with the idea of something similar, mostly because I really liked Akroma, Angel of Wrath when I was young and I like "No Rest, No mercy, No Matter what" flavour test. and testing a bit Magus of the Moat (or moat itself if you have it) will be all stars
Ooooh, Magus is neat! Probably better in most situations than Michiko. And yeah, Akroma is pretty iconic. She has flying, haste, vigilance and hits pretty hard, which is everything I want from a threat.
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
2 months ago
I think 40 is the right number of lands. With a 8 drop in the CZ, every bit of mana counts. When I was playing Maelstrom Wanderer I was playing forty lands and like 30% of the nonlands in that deck were pure ramp. Counting to 8 isn't enough, you gotta be also able to hit 10 and 12 just in case.
Good point! Guess I'll test out 40 lands then and go from there. It's definitely more than I ever played in a deck, though lately I have been a bit more generous with lands when it comes to deckbuilding.

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Post by Ruiner » 2 months ago

Since you are already running Weathered Wayfarer, I'm a big fan of including the following to go along with it:
Flagstones of Trokair
Lotus Field
Thespian's Stage

I'm pretty hooked on running this little set of 4 cards in most of my white decks. It tends to work out ramping pretty effectively and combos nicely with Land Tax and Archaeomancer's Map.

Beyond that, maybe you want something like Blackblade Reforged and/or Duelist's Heritage to significantly increase the speed at which you can kill people.

In addition to the Magus of the Moat suggestion previously made, I'd also recommend giving Magus of the Tabernacle a shot. I run a Bruna, the Fading Light deck, and both of those cards can help stall people out significantly in the early rounds.

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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 months ago

Ruiner wrote:
2 months ago
Since you are already running Weathered Wayfarer, I'm a big fan of including the following to go along with it:
Flagstones of Trokair
Lotus Field
Thespian's Stage

I'm pretty hooked on running this little set of 4 cards in most of my white decks. It tends to work out ramping pretty effectively and combos nicely with Land Tax and Archaeomancer's Map.
That is some spicy tech. I never really considered those for a mono white deck. The only reservation I have is that it conflicts with Emeria, the Sky Ruin a bit, but I guess Flagstones gives you a Plains back when you sac it to Lotus Field. Question is, do I value the ramping potential more or the possibility of recursion.
Beyond that, maybe you want something like Blackblade Reforged and/or Duelist's Heritage to significantly increase the speed at which you can kill people.

In addition to the Magus of the Moat suggestion previously made, I'd also recommend giving Magus of the Tabernacle a shot. I run a Bruna, the Fading Light deck, and both of those cards can help stall people out significantly in the early rounds.
Yeah, I think it wise to add some more cards that turn Avacyn (or my other threats) into a faster clock. I was leaning towards Loxodon Warhammer and possibly Batterskull/True Conviction as they can turn Avacyn into a two-turn clock and give me some survivability, as well as support The One Ring.

Magus of the Tabernacle should be pretty strong in the deck, nice suggestion! I generally don't have that many creatures on the board, so it won't slow me down as much as my opponents. On top of that it has good blocking stats for the early/midgame.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 2 months ago

With how many wraths you are playing, your opponents won't have anything to use their spot removal on except your over costed and threatening commander. Depending on the playgroup, I suspect Avacyn to get removed in response to the wrath a fair number of times, leaving the other 2 wraths in your hand less useful when you need to drop 10 for Avacyn to break parity. 8 mana commanders that draw that many eyes aren't long for this world when it takes a decent bit of set up to get them in play.

Play style doesn't look that different from Kalia + Armageddon, where the table nukes your commander into oblivion, or you set up a soft lock and everyone can't play. Bit less powerful, but in the same vein. More pillowfort and less wraths will give players a bit more false sense of security if you don't guarantee a wrath the second Avacyn hits play. Let them overcommit a turn or two to try and get past your 8/8 vigilance commander before you dash their hopes and dreams.

Sorry to be a negative nancy, but the play style does not look appealing to me.

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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 months ago

PrimevalCommander wrote:
2 months ago
Sorry to be a negative nancy, but the play style does not look appealing to me.
Don't worry, I get that this is not everyone's cup of tea ;). Thank you for making some interesting points about the deck and the gameplan. The decks that I currently own tend to be light on boardwipes as they have different ways of dealing with or protecting themselves from big boardstates, so I want to try a different strategy. The in-store meta currently revolves around snowballing creatures/value engines, and I barely see wipes during my games in general. There is one guy with a Child of Alara deck and blowing up stuff seems to be highly effective right now.
With how many wraths you are playing, your opponents won't have anything to use their spot removal on except your over costed and threatening commander. Depending on the playgroup, I suspect Avacyn to get removed in response to the wrath a fair number of times, leaving the other 2 wraths in your hand less useful when you need to drop 10 for Avacyn to break parity. 8 mana commanders that draw that many eyes aren't long for this world when it takes a decent bit of set up to get them in play.

Play style doesn't look that different from Kalia + Armageddon, where the table nukes your commander into oblivion, or you set up a soft lock and everyone can't play. Bit less powerful, but in the same vein. More pillowfort and less wraths will give players a bit more false sense of security if you don't guarantee a wrath the second Avacyn hits play. Let them overcommit a turn or two to try and get past your 8/8 vigilance commander before you dash their hopes and dreams.
I guess I have to see how the deck performs in an actual game and balance the amount of pillowfort and wraths through experience. You make valid points about Avacyn having a big bullseye on her head. She is still susceptible to bounce and exile of course. I do have some protection in the deck for her, but not that much. I wonder how difficult it will be to close games out.

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Post by darrenhabib » 2 months ago

Even though you have Avacyn, Angel of Hope as Commander, I think you are running too many creature board wipes and you'll find a lot of games that you want to be more proactive.
The problem is that Avacyn is 8 mana and people will save their removal for her. So your one-sided board wipes are not going to be as consistent as you might hope.

Land Tax, Tithe, Gift of Estates, Endless Horizons, Archaeomancer's Map along with 40 lands seems very excessive.
I personally cut Gift of Estates and Endless Horizons. If budget is a consideration then Tithe is $22 and you have no specialized Plains like Mistveil Plains, so I'd cut that.
As an alternative to give you an example is that you could run Idyllic Tutor which can get Land Tax which would be similar to Endless Horizons, although you get more scope with Idyllic Tutor getting other cards.
Plus I think you can go to 38 lands no problem, there is plenty of ramp in the deck to support it.

As a mono-white mage myself a few things that I LOVE to do is use Emeria Shepherd combos with Burnished Hart, Solemn Simulacrum, Kor Cartographer and a sacrifice outlet.
Burnished Hart is self contained because it sacrifices itself, but with Solemn Simulacrum or Kor Cartographer you can put all the Plains in your deck onto the battlefield by sacrificing it before you search for the Plains. Fanatical Devotion is a nice sac outlet. Also its way to get more value from Emeria, the Sky Ruin from Solemn Simulacrum, Kor Cartographer.

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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 months ago

Hey darrenhabib, thank you for dropping by! Always appreciate comments from fellow white mages :grin:.
darrenhabib wrote:
2 months ago
Even though you have Avacyn, Angel of Hope as Commander, I think you are running too many creature board wipes and you'll find a lot of games that you want to be more proactive.
The problem is that Avacyn is 8 mana and people will save their removal for her. So your one-sided board wipes are not going to be as consistent as you might hope.
Yeah, PrimevalCommander pointed that out as well. What kind of cards or types of cards would you add to make the deck more proactive? A few more threat-like cards and some extra pillowfort/stax to slow the game down to the level of a mono-white deck?
Land Tax, Tithe, Gift of Estates, Endless Horizons, Archaeomancer's Map along with 40 lands seems very excessive.
I personally cut Gift of Estates and Endless Horizons. If budget is a consideration then Tithe is $22 and you have no specialized Plains like Mistveil Plains, so I'd cut that.
As an alternative to give you an example is that you could run Idyllic Tutor which can get Land Tax which would be similar to Endless Horizons, although you get more scope with Idyllic Tutor getting other cards.
Plus I think you can go to 38 lands no problem, there is plenty of ramp in the deck to support it.
I mean, I would love to tone down the ramp/land search/lands to free up some spots. Not sure what the sweet spot is yet though, gotta play a few games with the deck for that. Idyllic Tutor could be a good fit. I generally put it in when I am building something mono-white, not sure why I did not do that this time. It can find Land Tax like you said, but also game-changers like Rule of Law (had a game with Queen Marchesa today in which it kept the other three decks at the table in check) or a card like Celestial Mantle.
As a mono-white mage myself a few things that I LOVE to do is use Emeria Shepherd combos with Burnished Hart, Solemn Simulacrum, Kor Cartographer and a sacrifice outlet.
Burnished Hart is self contained because it sacrifices itself, but with Solemn Simulacrum or Kor Cartographer you can put all the Plains in your deck onto the battlefield by sacrificing it before you search for the Plains. Fanatical Devotion is a nice sac outlet. Also its way to get more value from Emeria, the Sky Ruin from Solemn Simulacrum, Kor Cartographer.
Oh yeah, those are great ways to draw some extra cards and outramp most other decks at the table. I used to do that in my old Atalya, Samite Master deck. These are also decent standalone cards that you can run in your deck without sacrificing on general card quality.

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Post by darrenhabib » 2 months ago

BlackbirdPlaysMTG wrote:
2 months ago
Yeah, PrimevalCommander pointed that out as well. What kind of cards or types of cards would you add to make the deck more proactive? A few more threat-like cards and some extra pillowfort/stax to slow the game down to the level of a mono-white deck?
I would play draw cards as this will still give you great access to getting your wraths while still getting other types of cards.
I like the combo with Magus of the Disk and Nevinyrral's Disk, plus I also like Cleansing Nova, Akroma's Vengeance, Hour of Revelation, Ondu Inversion. I would cut the rest.

As far as card draw here are some options; Esper Sentinel, Archivist of Oghma, Wojek Investigator, Mangara, the Diplomat, Firemane Commando, Smuggler's Share, Trouble in Pairs.

I do think that you are running to much artifact ramp which runs into the problem that if you do a board wipe without Avacyn then it really sets you back.
Thats why I would play land ramp given the chance even though you might not get quite the same return initially.
I'd play Wayfarer's Bauble, Deep Gnome Terramancer, Kor Cartographer over Coalition Relic, Worn Powerstone, Gilded Lotus.
Myriad Landscape as a land as well.

Ruiner has already pointed it out but with Weathered Wayfarer, Land Tax, Archaeomancer's Map, Keeper of the Accord, Tithe playing Lotus Field can help to trigger these more often.
Many the game I've sequenced Flagstones of Trokair into Lotus Field, to then just keep using Weathered Wayfarer to get my utility lands.

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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
2 months ago
I would play draw cards as this will still give you great access to getting your wraths while still getting other types of cards.
I like the combo with Magus of the Disk and Nevinyrral's Disk, plus I also like Cleansing Nova, Akroma's Vengeance, Hour of Revelation, Ondu Inversion. I would cut the rest.

As far as card draw here are some options; Esper Sentinel, Archivist of Oghma, Wojek Investigator, Mangara, the Diplomat, Firemane Commando, Smuggler's Share, Trouble in Pairs.

I do think that you are running to much artifact ramp which runs into the problem that if you do a board wipe without Avacyn then it really sets you back.
Thats why I would play land ramp given the chance even though you might not get quite the same return initially.
I'd play Wayfarer's Bauble, Deep Gnome Terramancer, Kor Cartographer over Coalition Relic, Worn Powerstone, Gilded Lotus.
Myriad Landscape as a land as well.

Ruiner has already pointed it out but with Weathered Wayfarer, Land Tax, Archaeomancer's Map, Keeper of the Accord, Tithe playing Lotus Field can help to trigger these more often.
Many the game I've sequenced Flagstones of Trokair into Lotus Field, to then just keep using Weathered Wayfarer to get my utility lands.
Thanks for your insight again :). I made some changes to the decklist and I think it is ready for a first round of real life testing. Removed five of the thirteen wrath effects, added the land package, added a few more draw effects, added Idyllic Tutor, added Fanatical Devotion, added Kor Cartographer and added an extra catch-all removal spell in Unexpectedly Absent. Trouble in Pairs is a card I might order later, seems pretty neat. I'll have to see how the artifact ramp package performs in actual games.

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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 1 month ago

Game Report
Played one game with Avacyn yesterday. Game went pretty well initially - had access to plenty of draw and I got Avacyn out ahead of curve. However, there was one big problem matchup-wise: there was a Lord Windgrace deck at the table who got an Maze of Ith out pretty early. That was kind of inconvenient as it kept me from dealing damage with Avacyn, but sure, I have other angels like Akroma, Angel of Wrath that can beat face.

Then a bigger problem came into being: the Windgrace player had plenty of ramp and a Constant Mists in hand. My other opponent was playing a selesnya deck that relied on combat damage and was just like me not in the colours to counter or get rid of the Constant Mists. I did have the tools to wipe the board, but the Windgrace player could basically work towards his win condition with impunity. There was not a single card in my deck that could deal with this situation.

Games against land-based strategies like Windgrace or Simic.thedeck really make me want to run Armageddon and Ravages of War :?. Those would get rid of all the problematic lands in one go, as well as defuse the Constants Mists. I guess something like Grand Abolisher would also work against fogs and other forms of interaction during your turn.

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Post by darrenhabib » 1 month ago

I mean Armageddon and Ravages of War are the reason you should play Avacyn in the first place :P
Note Ravages got a reprint in Fallout at around $20.
You might run into salt as a lot of casual Commander players don't like mass land destruction, but with a Windgrace player this already signals that its a competitive enough group that they shouldn't complain.

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Post by pokken » 1 month ago

BlackbirdPlaysMTG wrote:
1 month ago
Games against land-based strategies like Windgrace or Simic.thedeck really make me want to run Armageddon and Ravages of War . Those would get rid of all the problematic lands in one go, as well as defuse the Constants Mists
everyone always thinks that, then the lands strategy rebuilds twice as fast as everybody else after removing Avacyn, Angel of Hope while it was on the stack :D

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 month ago

pokken wrote:
1 month ago
BlackbirdPlaysMTG wrote:
1 month ago
Games against land-based strategies like Windgrace or Simic.thedeck really make me want to run Armageddon and Ravages of War . Those would get rid of all the problematic lands in one go, as well as defuse the Constants Mists
everyone always thinks that, then the lands strategy rebuilds twice as fast as everybody else after removing Avacyn, Angel of Hope while it was on the stack :D
I can speak to this. You may win sometimes off a 'geddon that goes unresponded, but you're going to lose a fair amount to removal in response and the ensuing salt. I'd add some things like Cosmic Intervention to back up Avacyn if you go the MLD route.
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